Not asking for a Goku downgrade, just need someone to look at this and tell me what they think.

[LeopoldTheBrave]

So it only happened in the anime... In the manga Goku and Beerus' clash caused no damage to the universe. The Kai's simply sensed it and Old Kai exaggerated like he usually does.

The very next second Goku struggles to stop an attack that Beerus states is only supposed to destroy Earth.

Then last but not least, Beerus sneezes and destroys a star. Goku then states that would have killed him if it hit him. Is Goku saying his durability is below Star level?

Like I said, I want people to look at this first before I scream out "Downgrade, downgrade, downgrade!!!" Because I could either be right or just totally confused.



Nothing is destroyed or stated to be destroyed.


Goku struggling with planet busting attack.


Goku says star level attack could kill him...?

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Maybe hes refering to the fact that his guard is down.....maybe....dbz doesnt make sense anymore....

 

[Antoniofer]

Wait... that is Goku saying a bad word? don't remember such a thing!... Also, destroying the universe seems superfluous to me, this seems more logical

 

[Oblivion00]

Hmmm isn't the manga an adaptation of the anime? It's weird because it's usually the other way around lol.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Hmmm isn't the manga an adaptation of the anime? It's weird because it's usually the other way around lol.

The manga usually comes first. Like comics come before cartoons.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Wait... that is Goku saying a bad word? don't remember such a thing!... Also, destroying the universe seems superfluous to me, this seems more logical

There are some characters you'd be surprised that they have a potty mouth XD Things are often changed for anime adaptations..

Sonic said "shit" like 3 times throughout the Japanese dub of Sonic X

 

[LordAizenSama]

how is Old Kai exaggerating when you can literally see the shockwaves.

 

[Oblivion00]

The manga usually comes first. Like comics come before cartoons.

You would have a point here. However Toriyama and Toei are working on the anime whilst Toyotaro is working on the manga.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well, I remember Super being used as canon rather than the manga....The same goes Madoka Magica, so don't assume that the primary Manga > primary Anime in terms of canon. Also like Aizen said the shockwaves are seeable....

 

[Alexcar3000]

• (*sigh*) Not this again...well remember that DB characters can affect the AoE of their attacks, they can make planet level ki blast without actually destroying anything, the ball Beerus throwed at Goku is not just "planet level", that's a saiyan saga thing, and in the first scan, their clash clearly resonated trough the entire macrocosmos (Kaioshin Realm, The Cosmos, Mortal Universe, and the Demon Realm) and was going to rip it appart as the shockwaves have shown, and about the third one...well that's the RoF manga so I doubt that correlates to the DBS manga canon, but it could be Goku catched off guard, or another restricted AoE attack, or a combination of both.

 

[LordAizenSama]

a small note: the dragon ball super manga is considered secondary canon, while the anime itself is the main canon material

 

[Oblivion00]

This pretty much states that the manga is an adaptation of the anime. I can see the point you're making Leopold but sometimes the manga isn't always the primary canon. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/10/05/dragon-ball-super-manga-moves-ahead-with-champa-material/

 

[Antoniofer]

*(*sigh*) Not this again...well remember that DB characters can affect the AoE of their attacks, they can make planet level ki blast without actually destroying anything, the ball Beerus throwed at Goku is not just "planet level", that's a saiyan saga thing, and in the first scan, their clash clearly resonated trough the entire macrocosmos (Kaioshin Realm, The Cosmos, Mortal Universe, and the Demon Realm) and was going to rip it appart as the shockwaves have shown, and about the third one...well that's the RoF manga so I doubt that correlates to the DBS manga canon, but it could be Goku catched off guard, or another restricted AoE attack, or a combination of both.

I think that resonate through the universes and dimensions is different from destroy it; is like the battle between Primus and Unicron, they just shake the universe

 

[Sheoth]

The Blast from Beerus was probably much more potent than it looked in terms of AoE. Remember, the characters can do that with their blasts, and Goku can sense God Ki at this point.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

I think that resonate through the universes and dimensions is different from destroy it; is like the battle between Primus and Unicron, they just shake the universe

Not to mentions Goku only did this by clashing with Beerus and has never displayed this strength on his own. Giving him a feat like this would be like ScrewAttack claiming Superman has limitless strength because of the infinite page book or whatever that wasn't even infinite. That was just the title of the book! XD

 

[SomebodyData]

Not to mentions Goku only did this by clashing with Beerus and has never displayed this strength on his own. Giving him a feat like this would be like ScrewAttack claiming Superman has limitless strength because of the infinite page book or whatever that wasn't even infinite. That was just the title of the book! XD

Well considering that Beerus wasn't using full power and Goku would still be Multi-Galaxy, not sure if it matters. Also, you can see the feat in affect as it literally shakes the universe, so comparing it with the Infinte Page Book doesn't seem like the best comparsion.

 

[Antoniofer]

Lifting the "half" of the Universe... I remember when Superman just lifted a planet at best and Goku destroying solar systems at best...

 

[Alexcar3000]

He didn't display it before because he didn't have Godly Ki before, and such jump in power made it hard for him to restrict the AoE of his attacks, and about the Superman thing...well that's a very different case, and apparently, that was Ultraman (yeah, I saw that video).

 

[Alexcar3000]

They were riping appart 2.5 Universes tho, and Old Kai stated that they would destroy everything in 2.5 clashes so...1 clash = 1 Universe

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Lifting the "half" of the Universe... I remember when Superman just lifted a planet at best and Goku destroying solar systems at best...

I still haven't seen Goku destroy a solar system XD That's just the result of power scaling. Which in my opinion is a cheap way of doing things. "This guy easily hurt that guy so this guy is obviously the same level or stronger!" which is not a very reliable way XD

I can bench 220 pounds but it still hurts when my little brother kicks me in the shin. XD

 

[Alexcar3000]

Lifting the "half" of the Universe... I remember when Superman just lifted a planet at best and Goku destroying solar systems at best...

I still haven't seen Goku destroy a solar system XD That's just the result of power scaling. Which in my opinion is a cheap way of doing things. "This guy hurt that guys so this guys is obviously the same level or stronger!" which is not a very reliable way XD
I can bench 220 pounds but it still hurts when my little brother kicks me in the shin. XD

Well, a wall level character can't hurt a planet level being right? Well, if another character comes and one-shots said planet level being, he would be a planet+ level being, it's not hard to understand. Freezer one-shoted planet Vegeta, then Goku rekt him at a stronger state, Goku has never seen to bust a planet, but you can't say that he isn't just because of that when we clearly see him beating someone who can do it.

 

[Oblivion00]

I still haven't seen Goku destroy a solar system XD That's just the result of power scaling. Which in my opinion is a cheap way of doing things. "This guy easily hurt that guy so this guy is obviously the same level or stronger!" which is not a very reliable way XD

I can bench 220 pounds but it still hurts when my little brother kicks me in the shin. XD

If we're only using feats then Goku would be island level and Frieza is a casual planet buster.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Lifting the "half" of the Universe... I remember when Superman just lifted a planet at best and Goku destroying solar systems at best...

I still haven't seen Goku destroy a solar system XD That's just the result of power scaling. Which in my opinion is a cheap way of doing things. "This guy easily hurt that guy so this guy is obviously the same level or stronger!" which is not a very reliable way XD

I can bench 220 pounds but it still hurts when my little brother kicks me in the shin. XD

strawman arguments are not helping you..

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Well yeah I understand one-shotting XD But easily hurting someone? Hey remember when Yajirobe cut Vegeta's tail? Guess Yajirobe's sword is planet level!

 

[Archon_Hero]

So your argument depends on whether or not the DBS manga should take precedence over the anime?

Note: The manga panel you listed at the bottom comes from the ROF movie which has essentially been retconned.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well yeah I understand one-shotting XD But easily hurting someone? Hey remember when Yajirobe cut Vegeta's tail? Guess Yajirobe's sword is planet level!

Surprise attacks usually do tat....

 

[Oblivion00]

So your argument depends on whether or not the DBS manga should take precedence over the anime?

Note: The manga panel you listed at the bottom comes from the ROF movie which has essentially been retconned.

Long story short no the manga does not take precedence over the anime. See my link above.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

How do we scale their durability though? If caught off guard the simplest things can kill them. What if the laser thing happens to Goku again in Super like it did in Resurrection F?

Also don't get angry at me. In the original post at the top I clearly said this is why I am asking. I could either be right or confused. And I guess confused was the obvious answer.

 

[Archon_Hero]

Ive known dude, I just wanted to confirm the particular reasonings for the point of this discussion.

 

[SomebodyData]

How do we scale their durability though? If caught off guard the simplest things can kill them. What if the laser thing happens to Goku again in Super like it did in Resurrection F?
Also don't get angry at me. In the original post at the top I clearly said this is why I am asking. I could either be right or confused. And I guess confused was the obvious answer.

Angry? I'm not angry. You wanna see angry? HULK SMASH!

Jokes aside I'm not angry.... Also, Leo still sure his dura would still be the same, it'll just be like how all fictional characters can get distracted, only with a side note stating how low it can get.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Well, we've seen many times characters that are catched off guard, but they don't explode or something, they just get hurt more than normal, like the sniper that shoted Kid Goku only pissed him off, he didn't blow his head off, so it may be considered PIS.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Well, we've seen many times characters that are catched off guard, but they don't explode or something, they just get hurt more than normal, like the sniper that shoted Kid Goku only pissed him off, he didn't blow his head off, so it may be considered PIS.

Well again there's Vegeta's tail, Frieza's tail, and also Goku screamed like a baby when Krillin threw a rock at him XD But whatevs.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Well, we've seen many times characters that are catched off guard, but they don't explode or something, they just get hurt more than normal, like the sniper that shoted Kid Goku only pissed him off, he didn't blow his head off, so it may be considered PIS.

Well again there's Vegeta's tail, Frieza's tail, and also Goku screamed like a baby when Krillin threw a rock at him XD But whatevs.

The last one was a gag (and filler), if we accepted that, we would need to accept Multy-Galaxy+ dura Krillin for surviving a punch from Post-God Goku, lol

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, we've seen many times characters that are catched off guard, but they don't explode or something, they just get hurt more than normal, like the sniper that shoted Kid Goku only pissed him off, he didn't blow his head off, so it may be considered PIS.

Well again there's Vegeta's tail, Frieza's tail, and also Goku screamed like a baby when Krillin threw a rock at him XD But whatevs.

The last one was a gag (and filler), if we accepted that, we would need to accept Multy-Galaxy+ dura Krillin for surviving a punch from Post-God Goku, lol

Thats remind me, there is a page in jokevsbattle where they say than 40 tons, a rock and a laser is stronger than Goku

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Well again there's Vegeta's tail, Frieza's tail, and also Goku screamed like a baby when Krillin threw a rock at him XD But whatevs.

The last one was a gag (and filler), if we accepted that, we would need to accept Multy-Galaxy+ dura Krillin for surviving a punch from Post-God Goku, lol

That's another thing though. How do you determine what happens to who? If a weak character survives a strong characters attack, do you downgrade the strong character? Or upgrade the weak character? I'm not talking about Goku punching Krillin, I'm just talking about in general.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Well, we've seen many times characters that are catched off guard, but they don't explode or something, they just get hurt more than normal, like the sniper that shoted Kid Goku only pissed him off, he didn't blow his head off, so it may be considered PIS.

Well again there's Vegeta's tail, Frieza's tail, and also Goku screamed like a baby when Krillin threw a rock at him XD But whatevs.

The last one was a gag (and filler), if we accepted that, we would need to accept Multy-Galaxy+ dura Krillin for surviving a punch from Post-God Goku, lol

Thats remind me, there is a page in jokevsbattle where they say than 40 tons, a rock and a laser is stronger than Goku

This one http://dbz-vs.wikia.com/wiki/Son_Goku_(Downplay) and this one https://joke-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Goku_(Downplayed)

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

I should've probably stated this in the post at the top, but I'm not trying to downplay Goku XD I just don't fall for the wanking and I try to look at him as realistically as I possibly can. I can't stand it when people are like "Whoa! Goku shook the universe with Beerus lololol he could just punch a galaxy and it will explode!!!"

 

[SomebodyData]

I should've probably stated this in the post at the top, but I'm not trying to downplay Goku XD I just don't fall for the wanking and I try to look at him as realistically as I possibly can. I can't stand it when people are like "Whoa! Goku shook the universe with Beerus lololol he could just punch a galaxy and it will explode!!!"

Well technically speaking... any character who can do that should be able to do that....

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The Blast from Beerus was probably much more potent than it looked in terms of AoE. Remember, the characters can do that with their blasts, and Goku can sense God Ki at this point.

It's a good thing that's the case and not Yamcha getting killed by a small house level explosion...which would be hilarious.

 

[LeopoldTheBrave]

Well technically speaking... any character who can do that should be able to do that....


Even though Goku didn't shake it by himself and hasn't shown the strength anywhere else? Quit joking around, man. This isn't ScrewAttack XD