NNT Multipliers

[BurlapJack]

But it was fc, then that means Mel has to share some of that too

 

[Siegfried10]

What matters is the direction of the attack, not who used it. In this case Mel Full Countered it and went in Escanor's direction, he dodged and then Perfect Cube reflected it back at him, hitting him this time.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Once again that's incorrect^

The anime clarifies that the Full Countered Cruel Sun exploded upon impact of the Perfect Cube, it may reflect things sometimes, but it didn't in this scenario

 

[BurlapJack]

He meant the blast from the explosion mitch

 

[Ah_Gou]

Imagine using anime for canonity over the manga when there's no clear indication that the author was involved in any way. Couldn't be me.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Anime can be used for clarification of scenes where we couldn't exactly see what was going on in the manga

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can be used to downgrade stuff, not to upgrade

 

[AstralKing7]

Imagine using anime for canonity over the manga when there's no clear indication that the author was involved in any way. Couldn't be me.

We actually are allowed to do this for clarification of scenes which aren't clear

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

In NNT's case the anime is straight up non-canon to the manga since Season 1 and shouldn't be used for anything, upgrade or downgrade.

Also, pretty sure I remember Escanor only taking moderate cuts from his own Full Countered slashes when Estarossa fought him. So this discussion seems kind of pointless.

 

[Ah_Gou]

We definitely see what's going on in this case, seems to me like you're trying to retcon the scene with the anime.

 

[Damage3245]

Hold on, can you try and explain what you believe it is that the manga is depicting in that scene? Because it seems to match up with the interpretation that both Escanor and Meliodas were hit in the manga.

 

[AstralKing7]

Woah woah. We are literally allowed to use an anime for clarifications of events even if it's non canon. I don't know why people are acting like this is brand new.

 

[Ah_Gou]

But that's what I'm saying. Both were hit by the attack,both took the same damage.

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

Given that Mid-Morning Escanor is durable enough to withstand his Full Countered slashes, it's pretty safe to assume that he could do the same thing in his Near-Noon state. Using this way of thinking, Assault Mode's multiplier could still scale to Full Counter.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

All right, so the conclusions appear to be that

1. Full Counter is a 3x Multiplier

2. Demon Mark is not a universal 2x Multiplier

3. Assault Mode should scale to Full Counter

I'm not entirely sure if the last one was agreed upon by Staff Members

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

The last one has my agreement at least.

 

[JooCipher]

if Full Counter is 3x multipler than everyone that tanked one needs to have their durability updated right?

 

[BurlapJack]

^who all has tanked a fc?

 

[JooCipher]

Derieri, Monspiet, Twigo, Escanor(Estarossa's), Hendrickson and Guila

and I think Chandler full countered Merlin too

 

[Peter1129]

Guila only tanked it because she pruposely didn't use full strength. When she did she got one shot by her full countered attack. Hendrickson I don't remember too well. But everybody else did tank their full countered attack while bloodlusted and survived with minor injuries or no shown injuries.

 

[JooCipher]

Hendrickson got his Hellblaze Scream full countered by Meliodas on chapter 75

he did tank the attack with somewhat minor injuries

 

[Peter1129]

Huh this would actually upgrade the 7-Bs a bit. And if Demon Mark was still considered 2x this would've bumped the mid tiers back up to 7-A. But sadly I guess we'll have to make do with unquantifiably above 7-B (42 Megatons) mid tiers.

 

[JooCipher]

i mean, it's not that bad

at least the scaling chain doesn't jump from High 7-C to 2-C

 

[Peter1129]

Actually I just remembered this would still make the mid tiers 7-B+ since they scale far above Gray Demon Hendrickson who is Hendickson + Red Demon + Gray Demon. Gray Demons are comparable to the Sins so

42 Megatons (Gray Demon) + 14 Megatons (Hendrickson) + Baseline 7 Megatons (Red Demons) = 63 Megatons (Gray Demon Hendrickson)

10k+ characters can one shot Gray Hendrickson lvl characters so they would probably be 7-A. I'll bring this up on the revision thread later.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

No, those characters would be At least 63 Megatons, you can't just slap the characters to 100 Megatons cause they're far higher, if they were really close, like 90 and higher Megatons, it'd be fine, but this is too big a jump

 

[Peter1129]

Actually I'm pretty sure as long as they are in the + range it's possible to jump to the next tier via casually one shotting or one shotting while weakened or some kind of really long scaling chain. At least that's how I remember it since some verses have jumped from somewhere around baseline + range to the next tier via casually stomping somebody stronger than the baseline. One Punch Man BoS Genos was baseline 7-C+ (53 Kilotons) and they jumped to baseline High 7-C (100 Kilotons) via a pretty long scaling chain with stomping involved. If it's not in the + range I'm pretty sure upscaling isn't allowed. But if it is I remember it being possible.

 

[BurlapJack]

Lol I 90 megatons is alright then what harm is an extra 10? Not criticizing but it's kinda hilarious

 

[M3X_2.0]

What about not jump Tiers?

 

[Peter1129]

I mean jumping tiers has been an accepted thing for quite a while. if tier jumps weren't a thing than everything would've been like the current Bleach profiles where every character from mid tier to high tier being forever 7-A+ (Like around 800 or so megatons) despite them having a crap ton of multipliers and a scaling chain filled with several stomps, one shots and etc above Toshiro who performed said feat.

If it wasn't in the + range I would've been heavily against upscaling but since it is I'm fine as long as people accept it. Since other verses have jumped with a much lower value in the + range.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I know that it is accepted. But jumping tiers just because Nakaba can't make good feats? Nah, I am against

 

[AstralKing7]

Tbf I don't think that's good enough of a reason^

 

[Ah_Gou]

King also tanked his attack, full countered by Chandler.

 

[Peter1129]

It wasn't his full power attack though. He used a casual attack to take out an illusion of a bunch of fodder demons and was heavily wounded.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Are we... done here?

 

[Antvasima]

What are the summarised conclusions here?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

1. Full Counter is a 3x Multiplier

2. Demon Mark is not a universal 2x Multiplier

3. Assault Mode should scale to Full Counter

I'm not actually sure if the last one was agreed upon by Staff Members yet

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can you give easy to understand summaries of the reasons for this?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Full Counter was said to reflect the attack "several times" stronger than what was used. This means at least 3 times.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that seems to make sense.

 

[Ah_Gou]

Pre Noon Escanor tanked his Full Countered Cruel Sun which we established it's a x3 multiplier. Assault Mel did more damage than that with a punch. This is for the 3rd point.