NNT 6-c upgrade

[Tsotso]

Then my point still stands

And what exactly is your point?

His fight against zeldris

His only impressive feat against Zeldris was in The One form while I said "we later got introduced to characters stronger than him outside of his The One state".

Ah doesn't change anything

Why? You haven't provided reasons for why Ban and king's feats against DK Zeldris aren't a reason for them to get a possibly higher.

 

[Tsotso]

If we can't assume they got stronger then ban and king dont scale

You are missing the point.

Us not assuming they got stronger is why they don't have to get new keys. It doesn't change anything about them damaging DK Zeldris.

 

[Sus]

Why? You haven't provided reasons for why Ban and king's feats against DK Zeldris aren't a reason for them to get a possibly higher.

Demon king meliodas stomping king and heavily damaging ban

His only impressive feat against Zeldris was in The One form while I said "we later got introduced to characters stronger than him outside of his The One state".

I'm literally arguing for the one escanor, stop bringing irrelevant bullshit

 

[Tsotso]

I'm literally arguing for the one escanor, stop bringing irrelevant bullshit

The problem with your arguments is that they ignore the obvious contradiction that occurs if you don't believe he was using his life force from the beginning in the DK fight. I pointed that contradiction out already and you haven't said anything that supports your point when it's made invalid by the contradictory scaling.

The only two options for Escanor in the DK fight are:

• He was using his life force from the beginning due to all of this. So The One in his regular day key doesn't scale to the DK.
• He was not using his life force from the beginning and all of this is an outlier. So The One in his regular day key doesn't scale to the DK.

Therefore his usual The One is not scalable to DK Zeldris.

 

[speedster352]

Demon king meliodas stomping king and heavily damaging ban

I'm literally arguing for the one escanor, stop bringing irrelevant bullshit

King was low on magic proof when he turned back into a kid

 

[Tsotso]

Demon king meliodas stomping king and heavily damaging ban

He stomped King because the DK was immune to all of King's attacks. And even though he damaged Ban, he was also damaged by Ban.

 

[speedster352]

He stomped King because the DK was immune to all of King's attacks. And even though he damaged Ban, he was also damaged by Ban.

And king was low on magic remember in the dk meliodas fight

 

[Sus]

The problem with your arguments is that they ignore the obvious contradiction that occurs if you don't believe he was using his life force from the beginning in the DK fight. I pointed that contradiction out already and you haven't said anything that supports your point when it's made invalid by the contradictory scaling.

The only two options for Escanor in the DK fight are:

• He was using his life force from the beginning due to all of this. So The One in his regular day key doesn't scale to the DK.
• He was not using his life force from the beginning and all of this is an outlier. So The One in his regular day key doesn't scale to the DK.

Therefore his usual The One is not scalable to DK Zeldris.

He wasn't using his life force, again this comes from no where

Though I'm fine with a "the one (eos)" or anything similar to that

 

[Tsotso]

He wasn't using his life force, again this comes from no where

It seems that you haven't been reading my replies then.
I tried to explain it in the most understandable way but you just don't get it it seems.

Though I'm fine with a "the one (eos)" or anything similar to that

Yes, if Escanor's feats against the DK are applied to his profile it should be separate from his main day key as he was amped by his lifeforce or it was an outlier for reasons already stated.

 

[Sus]

It seems that you haven't been reading my replies then.
I tried to explain it in the most understandable way but you just don't get it it seems.


Yes, if Escanor's feats against the DK are applied to his profile it should be separate from his main day key as he was amped by his lifeforce or it was an outlier for reasons already stated.

I did read everything but I'm doing other stuff I can't write anything long now, sorry

I agree with a separate key for eos but i prefer not mentioning "was using his life force" because this was actually not mentioned

 

[Sus]

And just saying, them not getting a power up doesn't contradict them getting stronger, giving new keys for EoS is far less contradictory

 

[Tsotso]

I did read everything but I'm doing other stuff I can't write anything long now, sorry

If you read it then you should realize that Escanor's feats against the DK before the Ultimate One are either due to his lifeforce or are an outlier. These are the only two options for reasons that you claim to have read.

I agree with a separate key for eos but i prefer not mentioning "was using his life force" because this was actually not mentioned

If you are dead set on not believing in that, then it's an outlier in your eyes. As these are the only two options.

And just saying, them not getting a power up doesn't contradict them getting stronger, giving new keys for EoS is far less contradictory

Them not getting a powerup not contradicting them getting stronger =/= them getting stronger.

 

[Sus]

If you read it then you should realize that Escanor's feats against the DK before the Ultimate One are either due to his lifeforce or are an outlier. These are the only two options for reasons that you claim to have read.


If you are dead set on not believing in that, then it's an outlier in your eyes. As these are the only two options.


Them not getting a powerup not contradicting them getting stronger =/= them getting stronger.

Eh you don't seem to get my point

i mean by "them not getting a power up" like ban after purgatory or king growing wings, such power up isn't necessary to increase a character tier

I'm not buying him using his life force, not that he got stronger than before

So whether you agree with adding keys or not this doesn't actually relate to the outlier thing

 

[Tsotso]

Eh you don't seem to get my point

i mean by "them not getting a power up" like ban after purgatory or king growing wings, such power up isn't necessary to increase a character tier

I didn't say it was necessary. Just that there's nothing which supports them getting stronger between the DK Meliodas fight and DK Zeldris fight.

I'm not buying him using his life force, not that he got stronger than before

Then these feats are an outlier according to you.
You can't scale the usual day key The One to The One when he fought the DK as Escanor's feats near noon are either due to his lifeforce or an outlier for reasons I've mentioned before which haven't been contested.
You can't ignore near noon Escanor's feats and pretend they aren't contradictory and then pretend that The One counts while near noon doesn't.
That's not how it works. You can't both have your cake and eat it.

So whether you agree with adding keys or not this doesn't actually relate to the outlier thing

Yes, Ban and King don't relate to Escanor.

 

[Sus]

The fact that you keep talking about the outlier topic when I'm not even talking about it, fine think whatever you want then

 

[Tsotso]

The fact that you keep talking about the outlier topic when I'm not even talking about it

You were trying to push the notion that The One Escanor in his regular day key should scale to his feats against DK Zeldris but that doesn't make sense because near noon Escanor in that same fight performed feats which completely contradict his feats in the past. Therefore Escanor was either:

• Amped by his lifeforce from the beginning (when he fought the DK in his near noon state).
• Performing feats which contradict his feats against AM Meliodas and are therefore an outlier.

 

[Sus]

You were trying to push the notion that The One Escanor in his regular day key should scale to his feats against DK Zeldris but that doesn't make sense because near noon Escanor in that same fight performed feats which completely contradict his feats in the past. Therefore Escanor was either:

• Amped by his lifeforce from the beginning (when he fought the DK in his near noon state).
• Performing feats which contradict his feats against AM Meliodas and are therefore an outlier.

No i wasn't, i was arguing for adding an EoS key for the sins

Anyways i have other stuff to do so bye

 

[Tsotso]

No i wasn't

Then what is this:

If you're arguing eos sins scaling, why shouldn't escanor?

Stop using feats of noon escanor when I'm talking about the one anyway

I'm literally arguing for the one escanor

i was arguing for adding an EoS key for the sins

There's nothing which supports them getting way stronger between the DK Meliodas fight and the DK Zeldris fight.

 

[Sus]

I already said EoS in the reply...

Them performing better feats does indicate them getting more powerful, but y'all seem to consider the feats not to he stronger, which is fine ig

I need to go now, cya

 

[Tsotso]

I already said EoS in the reply...

Them performing better feats does indicate them getting more powerful, but y'all seem to consider the feats not to he stronger, which is fine ig

I need to go now, cya

There's no reason to assume they wouldn't have been capable of performing feats on that level at the time of the DK Meliodas fight (though it should be noted that King was low on magic at that time) as we don't exactly know how DK Meliodas compares to DK Zeldris other than that the latter is stronger to an unknown degree.

 

[Sus]

Ok sure

I can't keep my attention to something so stop quoting my post so i don't waste more time, thanks

I agree with the crt btw

 

[speedster352]

Ok sure

I can't keep my attention to something so stop quoting my post so i don't waste more time, thanks

I agree with the crt btw

Alright also during the dk meliodas fight king was low on magic.

 

[speedster352]

What do you think? @ByAsura

 

[speedster352]

I think eos sins should be moved to island level plus or large island level by fighting the prime demon king(demon king zeldris) damaging him and serviving a powerful attack from him. I try to find scans and post them later. This guy calculates all the feats in NNT

Watch the video

 

[ImposingTiger]

I completely agree with Tsotso here. It has always looked to me like Escanor got a random boost of power out of nowhere, but the possibility of him losing his life force makes a lot of sense.

Also, more indication of his growth is that The One Escanor couldn't even go through Ominous Nebula Zeldris while Post Noon Mael easily dispersed it like it was nothing. Mael was inferior to any form of the DK and a stronger version of the DK got damaged by a Pre Noon Escanor.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Asura, what calcs were you going to do? Is it a downgrade or an upgrade?

Did someone calc the miasma?

Has anyone any clue to guess what portion of the final explosion was tanked by the sins? I guess even if it wasn't as wide in the part below, the length of it would be more than enough to catch the sins, who were just tens of meters away from the epicenter.

 

[speedster352]

Asura, what calcs were you going to do? Is it a downgrade or an upgrade?

Did someone calc the miasma?

Has anyone any clue to guess what portion of the final explosion was tanked by the sins? I guess even if it wasn't as wide in the part below, the length of it would be more than enough to catch the sins, who were just tens of meters away from the epicenter.

Exactly they show that they were hit by the attack at least a portion of it and a portion of continental attack is still country level.

 

[speedster352]

What do you think? @ByAsura

 

[speedster352]

What about you? @Lormac_CC @LordEscanor @Zezu1995 @Rabbit2002

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Reposting for Asura to check out

NnT Upgrades

So I was gonna take a stab at the Original Sinners national storm, but this dude at VS wiki already got to Mael's cloud dispersion feat. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Causality/Mael's_Come_Back_-_Nanatsu_No_Taizai Using the official NnT map it got country level values 9-143...

www.fanverse.org

 

[Sus]

You cannot ping people

 

[ByAsura]

I'll take a look.

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, the biggest problem is power levels. I'm sure Nabaka intended them to be linear, but it's an unreliable system method that can lead to massive high-balls and low-balls alike. Plus, it'd put half of Meliodas' power on par with Fraudrin (someone much weaker than Galand) when he was comparable to Estarossa. Another consequence would be amping BoS Meliodas (3,370 pl) to something like 40 gigatons if Assault Mode Meliodas (142,000 pl) is 160 gigatons.

Secondly, the Baste calculation is getting revised. I'm kind of glad we have a new reference because I've been trying to find an exterior shot of that door and didn't realise it was right in front of me.

Third, Gilthunder was lying the whole time so he could subtly tell Meliodas that his hand was being forced ('I'm stronger than any Sin'). Even if he wasn't lying that he could take out the whole forrest, we also have no timeframe for the feat.

Fourth, we don't really use curvature like that for relatively small areas that could easily just be on a curved patch of land. Even if we did, there's a new and more accurate curvature formula that's far lower than this method.

Sixth, we don't scale Danafor to Liones. There's nothing confirming that.

Seventh, it's a big leap to assume Escanor/Mael's attacks are fusing masses of hydrogen (if that were the case, they'd probably be liberating the equivalent to 33.2064125239 Tons of TNT to 150 kilotons per kg of hydrogen fused, a substantial portion of which would manifest as kinetic energy). To our knowledge, they just output extremely hot and bright magical power, similar in quality to the light of the sun.

Lastly, I'm sure I've already said this, but Goddess magic being light real light is questionable and unproven.

Also, I really need to calculate that Ban feat, even if it only scales to Ban himself.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Seventh, it's a big leap to assume Escanor/Mael's attacks are fusing masses of hydrogen (if that were the case, they'd probably be liberating the equivalent to 33.2064125239 Tons of TNT to 150 kilotons per kg of hydrogen fused, a substantial portion of which would manifest as kinetic energy). To our knowledge, they just output extremely hot and bright magical power, similar in quality to the light of the sun.

Can you calculate the heat of the sunshine ? It is would be great if we know how hot it is

 

[ByAsura]

I'm planning that with an Edinburgh calculation.

 

[Tsotso]

Firstly, the biggest problem is power levels. I'm sure Nabaka intended them to be linear, but it's an unreliable system method that can lead to massive high-balls and low-balls alike. Plus, it'd put half of Meliodas' power on par with Fraudrin (someone much weaker than Galand) when he was comparable to Estarossa. Another consequence would be amping BoS Meliodas (3,370 pl) to something like 40 gigatons if Assault Mode Meliodas (142,000 pl) is 160 gigatons.

Secondly, the Baste calculation is getting revised. I'm kind of glad we have a new reference because I've been trying to find an exterior shot of that door and didn't realise it was right in front of me.

Third, Gilthunder was lying the whole time so he could subtly tell Meliodas that his hand was being forced ('I'm stronger than any Sin'). Even if he wasn't lying that he could take out the whole forrest, we also have no timeframe for the feat.

Fourth, we don't really use curvature like that for relatively small areas that could easily just be on a curved patch of land. Even if we did, there's a new and more accurate curvature formula that's far lower than this method.

Sixth, we don't scale Danafor to Liones. There's nothing confirming that.

Seventh, it's a big leap to assume Escanor/Mael's attacks are fusing masses of hydrogen (if that were the case, they'd probably be liberating the equivalent to 33.2064125239 Tons of TNT to 150 kilotons per kg of hydrogen fused, a substantial portion of which would manifest as kinetic energy). To our knowledge, they just output extremely hot and bright magical power, similar in quality to the light of the sun.

Eighth, I'm sure I've already said this, but Goddess magic being light is unreliable and unproven.

Lastly, I really need to calculate that Ban feat, even if it only scales to Ban himself.

Ok, but what do you think about these scaling revisions? Do you agree with them like everyone else?

 

[ByAsura]

Overall, yes, but Full Wings King was almost out of magic when he went against DK Mel.

 

[Tsotso]

Overall, yes, but Full Wings King was almost out of magic when he went against DK Mel.

That doesn't impact anything as he's not directly scaled to DK Mel but gets a possibly higher due to barely damaging DK Zeldris.

So since you agree, I guess they are ok to apply.

 

[ByAsura]

They're not ok to apply right now. Ask for more staff.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Ok, so basically if Ban and King get possibly higher due to surviving DK Zeldris' attack, the rating would be like this:

Demon King possessing Meliodas:
Attack Potency: At least Island level (Easily overpowered Afternoon Mael), possibly higher (Overpowered Full Wings King and damaged Ban, both of whom were able to withstand a magic attack from the Demon King who was possessing Zeldris)

Durability: At least Island level, possibly higher (Took blows from Post-Purgatory Ban)

Ban:
Attack Potency: At least Island level (Comparable to Post-Purgatory Base Meliodas. Traded blows with the Demon King who was possessing Meliodas), possibly higher (Was able to just barely damage the Demon King who was possessing Zeldris albeit Merlin stated that he was practically unscathed. Was capable of trading blows with the Demon King possessing Meliodas who was able to damage him), Varies with Snatch (Snatch is capable of stealing the opponent's speed and adding it to Ban's own)

Durability: At least Island level, possibly higher (Took hits from a Demon King who was possessing Meliodas. Withstood a magic attack from the Demon King who was possessing Zeldris), Varies with Snatch (Snatch is capable of stealing the opponent's physical power and adding it to Ban's own)

King:
Attack Potency: At least Island level (Effortlessly overpowered and stomped Four Commandments Absorbed Mael. Damaged the Original Demon while remote controlling Chastiefol from far away), possibly higher (Was able to just barely damage the Demon King who was possessing Zeldris albeit Merlin stated that he was practically unscathed)

Durability: At least Island level, possibly higher (Withstood a magicattack from the Demon King who was possessing Zeldris)

And Merlin damaged the DK so she could get a possibly higher.

Merlin
Attack Potency: Island level (Knocked out Unsealed Demon Mark Meliodas and extracted his power in the past. The mere mention of her true identity caused Fraudrin and Grayroad to completely lose their composure. Blasted a hole through Grayroad with Exterminate Ray and forcefully prevented her escape with a casual Endless Whirl spell), possibly higher with Infinity (Can enchant her magic and make it overpower True Form Chandler’s Exterminate Ray at night. Was able to barely damage the Demon King who was possessing Zeldris)

Seem good