Ninjago's Tiering 2

[Minaaaa]

Continuation from this thread due to it getting long

Star Tiering
This has been talked bout endlessly in the last thread for pages so i hope to solve it with a compromised rating. This was brough up by another user and i agree with it since the feat is so vauge. The whole verse (Excluding god tiers) will get the At least 6-A, possibly Low 4-C+ rating (6-A rating being a placeholder for a different feat)
Agree: @JJSliderman, @Scumbag_Steve, @GarrixianXD

Neutral: @Overlord_Darkness, @Robespierre_Isidore (Says the feat is fine)

Disagree: @Lloydblitzed, @TheOrangeGuy09, @ByArrow
Mergequakes
This feat from the previous thread i still disagree with it scaling to AP, so i will let other users determine if it is valid
Agree: @Overlord_Darkness, @JJSliderman (Downgrade to 3-A), @Robespierre_Isidore, @GarrixianXD

Neutral: @Scumbag_Steve

Disagree: @Lloydblitzed, @TheOrangeGuy09, @ByArrow, @DarkDragonMedeus

Misc
Onto the final points of the thread. The Mogra point has been dropped and his rating will be fixed in another thread. As for Garmadon and the Oni, i propose two options

1. The Oni aren't 2-C and thus the rating gets removed
2. The Oni are 2-C but through unknown and replaced with a possibly rating

Agree: @Overlord_Darkness, @JJSliderman (Agree with possibly), @Scumbag_Steve (Agree with Oni not being 2-C), @Robespierre_Isidore (Agree with Oni not being 2-C)

Neutral:

Disagree: @Lloydblitzed, @TheOrangeGuy09, @ByArrow, @DarkDragonMedeus

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Reposting my past big counter-argument (which practically summarizes everything from the opposite side):

First of all, this blog explains everything regarding Star Level tiering. Both combining and outlier reasonings are addressed there.
Now, let's get to the Mergequakes...

Spoiler: Mergequakes

I agree that closing them should NOT be Universal Level+ or Low 2-C, that's absolutely correct. But instead of Minaaa's downgrading attitude, I have quite the opposite one: upgrade it to Low Multiversal Level or 2-C. The reason for this is very simple: Mergequakes are places where two Realms try to occupy the same space, or in simple terms, merge, as stated by Lloyd, twice. As merging Realms counts as significant affecting under the standards of this wiki, demerging them would logically grant the same tier. Regarding OP's "they are only mentioned to destroy the worlds in big quantities"... it does not really matter, it is simply demerging feat which still should scale. Also, I want to note that plural form does not always mean that a big quantity is needed, especially in this type of wording, due to the possibility of it being a generalization to emphasize that all members of a certain group contain suggested property. Or, let's just make it more understandable by giving an example: "Black holes have very strong gravitational pull. Their gravitational pull is so strong that even light can't escape it if light is too close to them". I hope now you understand what I mean. If you really don't, I can elaborate more, just ask kindly.

Regarding Onis, however...

"They are slowly invading the realms with their cloud of destruction, destroying the life there so they can rule over it."

Excuse me, but how the scan provided proves your claim? It simply says that he wants for Creation to be gone. I don't see anything that suggests Cloud of Destruction is the means of how to destroy it. Moreover, OP's reasoning itself supports my point: Cloud of Destruction is shown to destroy... nothing. It only showed Petrification and nothing else. I have no clue why people assume that's the reason he does it. "Land of ash" was figurative language... it was stated multiple times that Onis would destroy all of the Realms, like here, here, and here (there were more but this should be sufficient enough).
Them destroying everything by an unknown attack does not mean they should get “possibly rating”

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Still disagree with the changes except for Mogra part and giving 2-C to Onis FRA

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Shortly:

Star tiering: Neutral.
Low 2-C or 2-C: Disagree.
Misk: Disagree. (They are not the Overlord or FSM to have such rating)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Misk: Disagree. (They are not the Overlord or FSM to have such rating)

Onis should literally count as God Tiers, also they have an arc around them for 3 seasons, and I would frankly remind you from who did FSM gain all of his power in the first place

 

[JJSliderman]

I agree with the OP in the star feat downgrade, agree that MQs should be downgraded but only to 3-A, and agree with possibly 2-C for the Oni.

 

[Minaaaa]

Reposting my past big counter-argument (which practically summarizes everything from the opposite side):

First of all, this blog explains everything regarding Star Level tiering. Both combining and outlier reasonings are addressed there.

This doesnt really solve the issue of the feat as we dont know what really happened after the weapons went into space. So instead of going on more page long threads, we come to a middle ground where the feat is accepted, but on a lower tier.

Now, let's get to the Mergequakes...

Spoiler: Mergequakes

I agree that closing them should NOT be Universal Level+ or Low 2-C, that's absolutely correct. But instead of Minaaa's downgrading attitude, I have quite the opposite one: upgrade it to Low Multiversal Level or 2-C. The reason for this is very simple: Mergequakes are places where two Realms try to occupy the same space, or in simple terms, merge, as stated by Lloyd, twice. As merging Realms counts as significant affecting under the standards of this wiki, demerging them would logically grant the same tier. Regarding OP's "they are only mentioned to destroy the worlds in big quantities"... it does not really matter, it is simply demerging feat which still should scale. Also, I want to note that plural form does not always mean that a big quantity is needed, especially in this type of wording, due to the possibility of it being a generalization to emphasize that all members of a certain group contain suggested property. Or, let's just make it more understandable by giving an example: "Black holes have very strong gravitational pull. Their gravitational pull is so strong that even light can't escape it if light is too close to them". I hope now you understand what I mean. If you really don't, I can elaborate more, just ask kindly.

The problem with this is closing the mergequake doesnt demerge the realms, it just... closes the mergequake, preventing damage to the immediate area. What we are given is that, Merge causes realms to combine -> Realms are unstable due to this and cracks in reality appear (Mergequakes) -> Things come through the Mergequake or suck people in, therefore they close them. Closing them just simply stops the damage, not demerge the realms. As a single Mergequake doesnt have a significant effect on anything, its just hax. Closing a crack in reality is just an unquantifiable feat.

Regarding Onis, however...

Excuse me, but how the scan provided proves your claim? It simply says that he wants for Creation to be gone. I don't see anything that suggests Cloud of Destruction is the means of how to destroy it. Moreover, OP's reasoning itself supports my point: Cloud of Destruction is shown to destroy... nothing. It only showed Petrification and nothing else. I have no clue why people assume that's the reason he does it. "Land of ash" was figurative language... it was stated multiple times that Onis would destroy all of the Realms, like here, here, and here (there were more but this should be sufficient enough).
Them destroying everything by an unknown attack does not mean they should get “possibly rating”

This was my point with their statement. Their destruction isnt a physical thing, but rather them taking over the realms. Saying "They destroy the realms" doesnt solve anything and loops back onto HOW they're doing it, which is why the rating goes or either gets a possibly rating, since the means of them doing it is unknown.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This doesnt really solve the issue of the feat as we dont know what really happened after the weapons went into space.

It does go through what actually should be addressed. The Megaweapon should have lost its power before the collision. If it still had its power during the collision, it shouldn’t have lost its power just like Golden Weapons didn’t.

So instead of going on more page long threads, we come to a middle ground where the feat is accepted, but on a lower tier.

I disagree with anything below 4-C, and I won’t compromise. Especially knowing that Outlier argument is dead due to the reasons mentioned in the blog, and the fact that 4 Golden Weapons are far more stronger than a single one, which is why scaling 4 Golden Weapons to a single one is ridiculous.

The problem with this is closing the mergequake doesnt demerge the realms, it just... closes the mergequake, preventing damage to the immediate area. What we are given is that, Merge causes realms to combine -> Realms are unstable due to this and cracks in reality appear (Mergequakes) -> Things come through the Mergequake or suck people in, therefore they close them. Closing them just simply stops the damage, not demerge the realms. As a single Mergequake doesnt have a significant effect on anything, its just hax. Closing a crack in reality is just an unquantifiable feat.

No… Mergequakes are places where two Realms merge. It does not cause merging, it is a place where the merging happens, basically a visual representation of that incident. Meaning that closing it would de-facto mean demerging both of them.
Let’s assume that closing Mergequakes does not prevent two Realms from merging. This means that two Realms still continue to merge. What happens when they merge? A mergequake. You would basically say that Mergequakes would infinitely spawn in the exact same place regardless of how many times Ninjas close it.

This was my point with their statement. Their destruction isnt a physical thing, but rather them taking over the realms.

They never say they want to rule over the Realms, it’s only Garmadon who wanted to rule over Ninjago. Onis whole power is named DESTRUCTION, they are SUPPOSED to oppose Dragons’ creation, we’ve got statements that outright say they were going to DESTROY all of the Realms.

Saying "They destroy the realms" doesnt solve anything and loops back onto HOW they're doing it, which is why the rating goes or either gets a possibly rating, since the means of them doing it is unknown.

Unknown means doesn’t mean anything. The whole thing is that: can they destroy Low Multiverse structure? Yes, indeed they can.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Misk: Disagree. (They are not the Overlord or FSM to have such rating)

17 Universes into 2-C is infinitely stronger then 2 Universe into 2-C, not a good reasoning

 

[Lloydblitzed]

No… Mergequakes are places where two Realms merge. It does not cause merging, it is a place where the merging happens, basically a visual representation of that incident. Meaning that closing it would de-facto mean demerging both of them.
Let’s assume that closing Mergequakes does not prevent two Realms from merging. This means that two Realms still continue to merge. What happens when they merge? A mergequake. You would basically say that Mergequakes would infinitely spawn in the exact same place regardless of how many times Ninjas close it.

To add to this (again), Tentacle monsters were also said to come from another dimension 2 times

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

17 Universes into 2-C is infinitely stronger then 2 Universe into 2-C, not a good reasoning

Misk means Onis ig

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Misk means Onis ig

Ah

 

[Minaaaa]

It does go through what actually should be addressed. The Megaweapon should have lost its power before the collision. If it still had its power during the collision, it shouldn’t have lost its power just like Golden Weapons didn’t.

I disagree with anything below 4-C, and I won’t compromise. Especially knowing that Outlier argument is dead due to the reasons mentioned in the blog, and the fact that 4 Golden Weapons are far more stronger than a single one, which is why scaling 4 Golden Weapons to a single one is ridiculous.

This is just not what im saying. If the GW destroyed the MW as you said, then it took 4 weapons along with the other 4 from the MW to make it, giving us 8 energies working to create it. We know it doesnt fully scale to either weapons because MW was destroyed and GW were damaged

No… Mergequakes are places where two Realms merge. It does not cause merging, it is a place where the merging happens, basically a visual representation of that incident. Meaning that closing it would de-facto mean demerging both of them.
Let’s assume that closing Mergequakes does not prevent two Realms from merging. This means that two Realms still continue to merge. What happens when they merge? A mergequake. You would basically say that Mergequakes would infinitely spawn in the exact same place regardless of how many times Ninjas close it.

This EXACT thing happened in the show

They never say they want to rule over the Realms, it’s only Garmadon who wanted to rule over Ninjago. Onis whole power is named DESTRUCTION, they are SUPPOSED to oppose Dragons’ creation, we’ve got statements that outright say they were going to DESTROY all of the Realms.

Unknown means doesn’t mean anything. The whole thing is that: can they destroy Low Multiverse structure? Yes, indeed they can.

Again, destroy them HOW? You can kick and scream and pull up as many Destroy The Realms" statements as you want, but if we arent given a way on how they're destroying it or even if they're destroying the entire space-time of the realm, then its an unknown feat.

 

[Minaaaa]

To add to this (again), Tentacle monsters were also said to come from another dimension 2 times

If this is the case, then that brings into question the source dragon's tier but thats for another time

 

[JJSliderman]

I suppose I understand the argument that the mergequake closing is a hax thing, seeing as only the characters with elemental powers can do it, while characters on par with them without elemental powers like Arin can’t.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This is just not what im saying. If the GW destroyed the MW as you said, then it took 4 weapons along with the other 4 from the MW to make it, giving us 8 energies working to create it.

MW was out of power before the collision. Did you read the blog?

We know it doesnt fully scale to either weapons because MW was destroyed and GW were damaged

GWs could be damaged due to an explosion and extreme speed. They still saved their power indicating they were not destroyed.

This EXACT thing happened in the show

I don’t see Mergequakes infinitely opening in the exact same place right after Ninjas closed one…

Again, destroy them HOW? You can kick and scream and pull up as many Destroy The Realms" statements as you want, but if we arent given a way on how they're destroying it or even if they're destroying the entire space-time of the realm, then its an unknown feat.

It doesn’t work like that. We know it is voa their power “Destruction”. There are tons of characters who destroy things via unknown means.
Also, do you even know what is “possibly” rating given for? NOT because of “unknown means”.

I suppose I understand the argument that the mergequake closing is a hax thing, seeing as only the characters with elemental powers can do it, while characters on par with them without elemental powers like Arin can’t.

Since when was Arin comparable to Ninjas? And I don’t get how Elemental Powers being able to close them affects the essential thing of what closing Mergequakes is.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I suppose I understand the argument that the mergequake closing is a hax thing, seeing as only the characters with elemental powers can do it, while characters on par with them without elemental powers like Arin can’t.

EP has a UES so it can scale to AP

 

[Minaaaa]

MW was out of power before the collision. Did you read the blog?

The MW never lost power before this. This is backed up by literally nothing

GWs could be damaged due to an explosion and extreme speed. They still saved their power indicating they were not destroyed.

If they were damaged then they dont scale to its full power

I don’t see Mergequakes infinitely opening in the exact same place right after Ninjas closed one…

Lloyd closed the mergequake then it opened right back up. What youre asking for is complete nonsense

It doesn’t work like that. We know it is voa their power “Destruction”. There are tons of characters who destroy things via unknown means.
Also, do you even know what is “possibly” rating given for? NOT because of “unknown means”.

Dude

Possibly​

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The MW never lost power before this. This is backed up by literally nothing

It was explained in the blog. You clearly did not read it.

If they were damaged then they dont scale to its full power

They were damaged due to the extreme speed, we already saw them tanking their own explosion before.

Lloyd closed the mergequake then it opened right back up. What youre asking for is complete nonsense

It doesn’t do in other cases, and it would also literally mean that closing Mergequakes doesn’t mean anything. The infinite opening is indeed a non-sense which doesn’t happen, which confirms that Ninjas demerge the Realms.

Dude

Possibly​

Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly.

Show where is it vague or non-definitive? It’s pretty clear: Oni army was going to destroy all of the Realms via their power of Destruction. Their intentions were clear, the whole three seasons lead to that.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The MW never lost power before this. This is backed up by literally nothing

Please re-read the blog, this has already been adressed (Also, I think he wants to tell you it was DAMAGED before this)

If they were damaged then they dont scale to its full power

That's untrue, we give AP rating to a weapon's strongest attack, no matter what the consequences are, and just bc it was damaged doesn't mean it can't scale

Lloyd closed the mergequake then it opened right back up. What youre asking for is complete nonsense

He closed one again later on by himself and it never openned back. He also closed one with Kai asw. This was just a rare and exceptional case lol (Fun fact: he closed it back again afterwards anyways)

 

[Minaaaa]

It was explained in the blog. You clearly did not read it.

It was not explained in the blog. Only thing that very vaugely resembles anything like this is you once again misunderstanding garmadon's statement in season 3.

They were damaged due to the extreme speed, we already saw them tanking their own explosion before.

Nothing supports this.

It doesn’t do in other cases, and it would also literally mean that closing Mergequakes doesn’t mean anything. The infinite opening is indeed a non-sense which doesn’t happen, which confirms that Ninjas demerge the Realms.

Or.. closing the mergequake... closes the mergequake. I already explained this, plus given your guy's scans, the merge isnt even tier 2 to being with.

Show where is it vague or non-definitive? It’s pretty clear: Oni army was going to destroy all of the Realms via their power of Destruction. Their intentions were clear, the whole three seasons lead to that.

Ok. HOW are they using their destruction powers to destroy the realms? This should be a very simple question.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Ok. HOW are they using their destruction powers to destroy the realms? This should be a very simple question.

That part doesn't matter tbh. We don't know how Overlord use his Darkness powers to destroy the Realms, nor how the SD can shatter Imperium into pieces, but we know what they use to do so and its all that matters

Nothing supports this.

The scene where they fly up at MFTL+ speed in space does

Or.. closing the mergequake... closes the mergequake. I already explained this, plus given your guy's scans, the merge isnt even tier 2 to being with.

The MergeQuake is the action of 2 Realms trying to occupy the same space....

 

[Minaaaa]

That's untrue, we give AP rating to a weapon's strongest attack, no matter what the consequences are, and just bc it was damaged doesn't mean it can't scale

If the Mega Weapon was destroyed when creating it, it doesnt scale because it couldnt handle the power of it and thus was destroyed.
If the Mega Weapon was destroyed, then logically the Golden Weapons would be destroyed too since theyre equal in power.

If only the Mega Weapon was destroyed, that means none of them scale to it since it was a combined attack to destroy the MW.
The four golden weapons obvisouly dont scale to it since they were in a mushed state because of it which would mean either they too couldnt take the full power of the explosion or they werent near the MW.

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

Star tiering is still eeeh with the megaweapons and the golden weapons and all... but it's fine I guess? Possibly makes sense because it would be the higher end and the feat is nebulous.

Mergequakes shouldn't scale to AP. Their hax are being used to handle the quakes which hurt reality and they mend it with their 'fundamental elements' I don't recall a statement about them scaling to their hax in a way to justify a UES like that.

Oni's shouldn't have 2-C from what I've seen in the series.

 

[JJSliderman]

It’s not really hax, so much as they are blasting fire or water at this point which simultaneously pushed one universe away from another.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If the Mega Weapon was destroyed, then logically the Golden Weapons would be destroyed too since theyre equal in power.

But they didn't + The MW was ALREADY damaged before the GWs hit them

If only the Mega Weapon was destroyed, that means none of them scale to it since it was a combined attack to destroy the MW.

Huh....?

The four golden weapons obvisouly dont scale to it since they were in a mushed state because of it which would mean either they too couldnt take the full power of the explosion or they werent near the MW.

Mushed state ≠ Destroyed

They didn't even suffer from a loss in power, and why would GM need their power if the weapons were destroyed?
(Fun fact: It was shown in S16 that when the GWs are destroyed, their original form spawns up and their elemental energy is released, which didn't happen in S3. Also, in S10, the GWs actually depower themselves due to using too much powers, which again, didn't happen in S3)

Mergequakes shouldn't scale to AP. Their hax are being used to handle the quakes which hurt reality and they mend it with their 'fundamental elements' I don't recall a statement about them scaling to their hax in a way to justify a UES like that.

It affects the Realms themselves. Do you see them merging again after the MergeQuakes are stopped? Also, they use their blasts which scale to UES, in fact Lloyd use the exact type of attack he use on MergeQuakes to harm GriefBringer earlier in the show

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It was not explained in the blog. Only thing that very vaugely resembles anything like this is you once again misunderstanding garmadon's statement in season 3.

Then debunk Garmadon’t statement. It is very clear that destruction preceded the collision via his words. And again, if the Megaweapon was not destroyed before the collision, then it should’ve gone under the same circumstances that Golden Weapons went through, meaning they wouldn’t lose their power… but they did, and we know that.

Nothing supports this.

Literally tanked their own explosion in Pilots, it IS in the blog, can’t you read?

Or.. closing the mergequake... closes the mergequake. I already explained this

If it just closed the Mergequake and Realms continued merging, they would reopen infinitely again, because when two Realms merge, Mergequake occurs.
And again, Mergequake is the place where two Realms merge. When you “close” the Mergequake, you basically make the place where they merge no more, meaning the 2 Realms demerged. That simple.

plus given your guy's scans, the merge isnt even tier 2 to being with.

Merge caused Mergequakes…

Ok. HOW are they using their destruction powers to destroy the realms? This should be a very simple question.

Does this even matter? I’d frankly remind you that according to Tiering System, Low Multiverse level is defined as:

Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

Fits exactly what Onis are doing. I can’t see how the method matters. Star and Marco merged their dimensions and got 2-C (Environmental Destruction is due to the fact it was supposed to, and actually hurt no-one). It is never specified what is the name of the spell that performed that was used, nor it is explained how did they merge them. Guess why? Because unknown means ≠ not valid feat/statement.

If the Mega Weapon was destroyed when creating it, it doesnt scale because it couldnt handle the power of it and thus was destroyed.

Megaweapon was destroyed before the collision by four Golden Weapons.
By your logic Garmadon shouldn’t have had his Megaweapon in the first place, because it was supposed to be destroyed, which makes no sense.

If the Mega Weapon was destroyed, then logically the Golden Weapons would be destroyed too since theyre equal in power.

Can you check the scene really quick? What attacked what? Golden Weapons attacked the Megaweapon, or the Megaweapon attacked the Golden Weapons? What was supposed to be destroyed: Golden Weapons or Megaweapon? Which one lost its power: Golden Weapons or Megaweapon?

If only the Mega Weapon was destroyed, that means none of them scale to it since it was a combined attack to destroy the MW.

…what… check the section of “Who scales?”… please stop typing if you read nothing.

The four golden weapons obvisouly dont scale to it since they were in a mushed state because of it which would mean either they too couldnt take the full power of the explosion or they werent near the MW.

They literally tank their own explosion in Pilots. And Ninjas still fully scale to it due reasons mentioned in the blog.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It’s not really hax, so much as they are blasting fire or water at this point which simultaneously pushed one universe away from another.

Precisely.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And btw I found a scan that may explain how the Onis would've obliderated the Realms

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Star tiering is still eeeh with the megaweapons and the golden weapons and all... but it's fine I guess? Possibly makes sense because it would be the higher end and the feat is nebulous.

That’s good.

Mergequakes shouldn't scale to AP. Their hax are being used to handle the quakes which hurt reality and they mend it with their 'fundamental elements' I don't recall a statement about them scaling to their hax in a way to justify a UES like that.

Explain to me how demerging two Realms is hax and not AP. If you think merging/demerging in general is supposed to be hax, then change the rules of “significantly affecting”.

Oni's shouldn't have 2-C from what I've seen in the series.

Of course, they didn’t destroy the Realms because they were stopped by Ninjas and Tornado of Creation, but that doesn’t disqualify them from having such a tier. Statements are important. Does Bill not showing the destruction of Universe/Multiverse disqualify his tier?

Also, from what LloydBlitzed found, they would literally wipe out the Creation. I believe that’s what Minaaa was looking for all the time?

 

[Minaaaa]

That part doesn't matter tbh. We don't know how Overlord use his Darkness powers to destroy the Realms, nor how the SD can shatter Imperium into pieces, but we know what they use to do so and its all that matters

This is just false in every way possible. If theres no context to the feat, then the feat means nothing and cant be scaled, which is why the rating goes or either gets a possibly rating.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This is just false in every way possible. If theres no context to the feat, then the feat means nothing and cant be scaled, which is why the rating goes or either gets a possibly rating.

We have no context of how FSM created the Realms, how Overlord was going to destroy the Balance, we just know that they used the Golden Power and Darkness respectively. By that logic, let’s downgrade all of the verse to 6-A, because we don’t know the “name” of the attack they would use in order to achieve their goals.
Actually, nobody says how Golden Weapons contributed to Continent Creation, we don’t know the name of the “attack” that was used in order to contribute to it. Then let’s downgrade everything to Wall Level.

 

[JJSliderman]

I think possibly works, Oni Garmadon already has scaling to Crystal King who is FSM tier, and we definitely know his feats are fine. A whole legion of oni destroying all of the realms seems feasible.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This is just false in every way possible. If theres no context to the feat, then the feat means nothing and cant be scaled, which is why the rating goes or either gets a possibly rating.

We do have context: We know what power they use to produce the feat

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I think possibly works, Oni Garmadon already has scaling to Crystal King who is FSM tier, and we definitely know his feats are fine. A whole legion of oni destroying all of the realms seems feasible.

Keep in mind that basically, Golden Power originates from Creation and Destruction (FSM was born as the result of Dragons-Onis war, and had “powers of both sides”) It makes sense that Dragon part gave him ability to create, while Destruction to destroy. Onis being capable of destroying all the Realms makes sense narratively, no matter how you put it.
I don’t see how it is “vague” or “non-definitive”.

 

[Minaaaa]

Then debunk Garmadon’t statement. It is very clear that destruction preceded the collision via his words. And again, if the Megaweapon was not destroyed before the collision, then it should’ve gone under the same circumstances that Golden Weapons went through, meaning they wouldn’t lose their power… but they did, and we know that.

Its not his statement, its how youre USING his statement. He never once implies this is what happened nor does this show. Literally nothing back this up.

Literally tanked their own explosion in Pilots, it IS in the blog, can’t you read?

This doesnt explain anything. The weapons are always barely in contact with eachother and if they do, its only briefly. IF crystalized is to be taken into consideration, then no they cant handle all being together like that

If it just closed the Mergequake and Realms continued merging, they would reopen infinitely again, because when two Realms merge, Mergequake occurs.

But the mergequakes do keep opening... which is why they needed the dragon cores... This is literally the entire plot of the second half of season 1, stopping the mergequakes and stablizing the merged realms

And again, Mergequake is the place where two Realms merge. When you “close” the Mergequake, you basically make the place where they merge no more, meaning the 2 Realms demerged. That simple.

The entire plot of the second half of season 1 disproves they arent demerging

Does this even matter? I’d frankly remind you that according to Tiering System, Low Multiverse level is defined as:

Fits exactly what Onis are doing. I can’t see how the method matters. Star and Marco merged their dimensions and got 2-C (Environmental Destruction is due to the fact it was supposed to, and actually hurt no-one). It is never specified what is the name of the spell that performed that was used, nor it is explained how did they merge them. Guess why? Because unknown means ≠ not valid feat/statement.

It seems like your not actually reading the tiering system. Are the oni destroying the entire space-time of the realm? are they even affecting the realms on a universal scale?

Megaweapon was destroyed before the collision by four Golden Weapons.

It wasnt, then it wouldnt have made a star as you guys keep saying. If as you guys keep saying, the mw being destroyed made a star, then it makes zero sense for it to be depowered. Why would it depower the MW and then erase it?

Can you check the scene really quick? What attacked what? Golden Weapons attacked the Megaweapon, or the Megaweapon attacked the Golden Weapons? What was supposed to be destroyed: Golden Weapons or Megaweapon? Which one lost its power: Golden Weapons or Megaweapon?

If the MW was destroyed when it went into space, then the GW would logically be destroyed since they are of equal power.

…what… check the section of “Who scales?”… please stop typing if you read nothing.

They dont scale to THE FULL CREATION

They literally tank their own explosion in Pilots. And Ninjas still fully scale to it due reasons mentioned in the blog.

see above

 

[Minaaaa]

We have no context of how FSM created the Realms,

This has its own problems but this isnt the thread for it

how Overlord was going to destroy the Balance, we just know that they used the Golden Power and Darkness respectively.

The Overlord has more backing his tiering up

By that logic, let’s downgrade all of the verse to 6-A, because we don’t know the “name” of the attack they would use in order to achieve their goals.
Actually, nobody says how Golden Weapons contributed to Continent Creation, we don’t know the name of the “attack” that was used in order to contribute to it. Then let’s downgrade everything to Wall Level.

I said in the OP that 6-A is a placeholder for now

 

[JJSliderman]

For the record, just because the mergequakes keep happening and the realms keep trying to merge, doesn’t debunk the ninja pushing away the realms to begin with. The closing of the merge quakes is just a temporary solution.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If the MW was destroyed when it went into space, then the GW would logically be destroyed since they are of equal power.

S3 itself disaprove of this. Also, the MW was badly damaged by the blast of the GWs


Zane statement was specifically that weapon of equal power can destroy the other, re read the blog

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

not his statement, its how youre USING his statement. He never once implies this is what happened nor does this show. Literally nothing back this up.

Backed up by the fact that Megawepaon should’ve been destroyed before the collision. And I literally did an analysis of the statement. “You used Golden Weapons to destroy my Megaweapon. But when they collided..” BUT WHEN part implies that collision was AFTER the destruction.

This doesnt explain anything. The weapons are always barely in contact with eachother and if they do, its only briefly. IF crystalized is to be taken into consideration, then no they cant handle all being together like that

It’s because Ninjas were inputing their power too, because they literally lost their powers later on. Anyways, it should scale to Ninjas.

But the mergequakes do keep opening...

Not in the exact same place.
Let’s say two Realms try to merge in X place. “X place” is a Mergequake (Mergequakes are places where two Realms try to share the same place). When Mergequake is closed, this means that X place where two Realms try to share the same space doesn’t exist. Meaning they were demerged. Simple.

which is why they needed the dragon cores... This is literally the entire plot of the second half of season 1, stopping the mergequakes and stablizing the merged realms

Dragons Cores made so that NO Realms ever try to merge again. Not the same feat.

The entire plot of the second half of season 1 disproves they arent demerging

?

It seems like your not actually reading the tiering system. Are the oni destroying the entire space-time of the realm? are they even affecting the realms on a universal scale?

Realms are space-times. I already covered that since they would destroy all of the FSM’s power, including Time Element, a small portion of which can already warp the whole space-time, meaning their destruction should on far, FAR larger scale than Universal Level+.

It wasnt, then it wouldnt have made a star as you guys keep saying. If as you guys keep saying, the mw being destroyed made a star, then it makes zero sense for it to be depowered. Why would it depower the MW and then erase it?

I… never said it being destroyed made a star? It being destroyed solved the Time Paradox in the favor of Ninjas. Golden Weapons’ power then created a star, Megaweapon simply became it.

If the MW was destroyed when it went into space, then the GW would logically be destroyed since they are of equal power.

Exactly, but we don’t see Golden Weapons losing their power, they still erased that poor Nindroid from existence and were used by Golden Master to complete his transformation (covered in the blog). Thank you for supporting my point, I appreciate it.

They dont scale to THE FULL CREATION

They do via UES. If you literally read my goddamn blog for which I spent days to create so there would be no more going back and forth on it, you would already agree a long time ago. But you didn’t. PLEASE take your time and read it.
For keeping this thread short, for each and every argument that you bring up and was covered in the blog I will simply put CitB (Covered in the blog).

This has its own problems but this isnt the thread for it

Then, keep in mind, if this thread downgrades the characters just because of “no context”, I am downgrading the entire verse to Wall Level for the same reasons. A friendly warning.

The Overlord has more backing his tiering up

All of the statements he has never specify what is the name of the attack. All we know is that it’s via his powers. That’s it.