Ninjago: Tier 1 - Low 1-C

[REX9097]

So, decided to make Ninjago Tier 1 a reality, so...

Spoiler: Pre-Blog argument

The Multiverse/Realms (2-C)​

The 16 Realms is composed of a collection of 16 Realms co-existing with the Ninjago Realm, or in other words, 17 Realms parallel to each other. The Ninjago Realm was implied to be an entire dimension, Additionally, the Realm was implied its own space-time continuum by Zane, a reliable source in the show. Each of the other Realms are parallel to Ninjago, thus indicating each of them contains a space-time. Furthermore, Space was also implied to be part of the Ninjago Realm, and WoG further supports the existance of multiple space-times by stating that the Realms are "places" and don't limit to mere planets at all. Ninjago is also repetively called/referred as a Universe of infinite size. Other Realms were also referred as full dimensions, like with the entirety of the Kingdom of Madness being referred as the Secret Dimension multiple times, and has even shown many, many, many, many (Top left corner) occassions to contain Celestial Bodies and thus an Outer Space

Zane: And if my memory banks serve correct, space has a way of taking one's breath away, in the negative sense.

With all of this information, we can conclude each of the Realms are Low 2-C structures existing seperetly from each other.

Balance (At least 2-C)​

This has been talked about in another thread, but i'd adding it in cosmology, being very importance in Ninjago is the one who makes the universes stable and we agreed on it in the past. Light and Dark in the verse act as a duality to eachother as The Overlord says
Where there is light, there will always be shadow - The Overlord to Ultimate Spinjitzu Master
this is what is known as 'The Balance' in the show. The shifting of The Balance causes something, as Wu put it, fundamentally wrong to the universe. Clouse shifting The Balance to darkness poses a threat to the universe and even the multiverse itself, causing The Balance between the two to be destroyed. Wu describes The Balance as being the nature of the universe, that Light and Dark must constantly be in balance and that darkness can never be fully destroyed. The First Spinjitzu Master and The Overlord are both equal beings capable of destroying the balance and thus ending the multiverse. They also represent both sides of the balance, each of them exist in their own realm/dimension located outside of multiverse, and these are also places where their truest selves remain dormant.

The Ethereal Divide​

Each Realms are seperated by a interdimensional ethereal Realm called the Ethereal Divide, who's also known as the Nothing Space. Its the fabric of reality who seperates all of the 16 Realms from each other. The Divide is used by Dragons or Traveler's Tea users to travel in-between the Realms and it also encompass all of the Realms, and Realms are connected by a path that only goes through Ethereal Divide

Regarding the Separation of Universes​

It should be recognized that travel between universes is not feasible unless through the use of a portal or similar unusual mechanisms. This is because it should be impossible for two distinct universes to be connected by a path that only goes through regular 3 dimensional space. Universes must be separated by something other than 3 dimensional distance or physical barriers, otherwise they would be considered to both be part of one large universe for our tiering purposes.

The most typical example is the presence of a higher dimensional space serving as a separator. In other words, two separate universes coexist in a four dimensional or even higher dimensional space, occupying different position along some additional dimensional axis. Therefore, in order to travel between such universes, the movement must be through the higher dimensional space between them. To summarize, two realms are separated through a higher dimension space if

1. A larger space encompasses all the universes or space-times
2. This space is of a higher dimensional nature.

Which means that Ethereal Divide is a higher-dimensional space, let's remember that this isn't the only thing that proves this, in Dragon rising Season 1 Episode 1, Mergequakes storm merged all realms. The higher realm was unaffected by the Mergequakes storm and merging the realms. It has its own separate spatio-temporality than realms. This is demonstrated by a Mergequakes powers. Since a Mergequakes only work with a higher spatio-temporal dimensions, which was able to merge realms in the same space like cracks in reality, it is proven that it does not work on realms outside of space-time, as it needs space-time in order to merge them. Also Mergequakes storm was merged all realms and make them have one time, even though they had a time with a different flows.
Take a look at this diagram for how Ethereal Divide work.
Before merging

After merging

Made by @Lloydblitzed

I made now a blog explaining in detail why the cosmology should be Low 1-C.
TLDR

1. The Ethereal Divide is Low 1-C due to it is space is of a higher dimensional nature with not affected by Mergequakes storm which only work with a higher spatio-temporal dimensions, and encompassing 17 universes within itself.
2. Source Dragon has to be straight up Low 1-C due to he can affecting entire cosmology. Also Lloyd Source Dragon Power key up to Low 1-C due to have power of Source Dragon.

Edits

1. Source Dragon should be Low 1-C stats also. Given that the Imperium was a threat to the very fabric of existence and it also affects him too due to capturing a Source Dragon, with Source Dragon himself stating that he can affect and destroy cosmology.
2. Source Dragon and Lloyd Source Dragon power key should also get both Conceptual Destruction Type 1 due to destroy everything, including The Overlord (embodiment of concept darkness and evil and source of darkness and evil, and he represents darkness), as 3 Realms outside space-time, and one of these realms are the Overlord's dimension in which The Overlord resides.

Agree: @Lloydblitzed, @Baabasaplar95, @Hellformer, @TheOrangeGuy09 (Cosmology), @EL_xWatcher1234x
Disagree:
Neutral: @Ar1216789, @TheOrangeGuy09 (Source Dragon Low 1-C)

 

[Ar1216789]

I'll remain neutral for now. I'm unknowledgeable on the verse, and I can't make a stance, but I'll take a look on Ninjago since I've seen loads of Ninjago CRT'S.

 

[REX9097]

Bump

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Im not sure about Conceptual Destruction (as the ED doesn't contain the 4 other outside Realm either), but Im fine with the rest for now

 

[Lloydblitzed]

My maps are also a bit old ngl (the 1st one is missing the other outside Realms

 

[REX9097]

My maps are also a bit old ngl (the 1st one is missing the other outside Realms

We don't need to add all the realms in ngl since we are explaining how the Ethereal Divide works as space is of a higher dimensional nature.

 

[REX9097]

Im not sure about Conceptual Destruction (as the ED doesn't contain the 4 other outside Realm either), but Im fine with the rest for now

So you neutral with CD

 

[Baabasaplar95]

Actually, thats make very sense, I Agree with the op

 

[Hellformer]

Seems good

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I’m pretty sure that GoW got Low 1-C for a similar thing, so I can agree with cosmology being Low 1-C. I’d want to see staff input though.
I’m iffy on it scaling to anyone since “destabilizing cosmos” does not mean anything meaningful. I do recall there being a statement of Balance affecting Ethereal Divide, but I don’t have it now.
Oh, and Overlord’s void was unaffected by the Merge too, and permanent destruction of Overlord is taken out of nowhere.

 

[REX9097]

I’m iffy on it scaling to anyone since “destabilizing cosmos” does not mean anything meaningful. I do recall there being a statement of Balance affecting Ethereal Divide, but I don’t have it now.

The Imperium's use of the Source Dragon has caused a threat to the fabric of existence which includes the ED and it has been shown to have affected him as well (the Source Dragon says if it is released again the threat will threaten and affect the fabric of existence)

Oh, and Overlord’s void was unaffected by the Merge too, and permanent destruction of Overlord is taken out of nowhere.

Destroying The Overlord's dimension will prevent The Overlord from ever coming back to life, which must be CD, as The Overlord comes back to life every time he is destroyed thanks to Immortality Type 9.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The Imperium's use of the Source Dragon has caused a threat to the fabric of existence which includes the ED and it has been shown to have affected him as well (the Source Dragon says if it is released again the threat will threaten and affect the fabric of existence)

Destroying The Overlord's dimension will prevent The Overlord from ever coming back to life, which must be CD, as The Overlord comes back to life every time he is destroyed thanks to Immortality Type 9.

Meh, I think the SD were referring about destroying everything within the ED and the ED itself. FSM's Realm after even the Merge was just fine

 

[REX9097]

Meh, I think the SD were referring about destroying everything within the ED and the ED itself. FSM's Realm after even the Merge was just fine

Hmm, I'm going to cross out the CD right now when I find other proof, the CD will be ready.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Remind me again, what are our standards for giving Low 1-C to spaces beyond the multiverse?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Agree

 

[REX9097]

Remind me again, what are our standards for giving Low 1-C to spaces beyond the multiverse?

Tier Low 1-C (Low Complex Multiverse level):

Characters or objects who can significantly affect, create and/or destroy higher-dimensional structures that are one dimensional level above Low 2-C structures. In ordinary distribution, this corresponds to R^5 (5-dimensional real coordinate space).

Equivalently, this tier can be reached by affecting/creating/destroying/embodying an uncountably infinite number of universes (More specifically, as many universes as there are real numbers)

If you want to think that The Ethereal Divide doesn't require conditions, you should know that Timestream got 1-C thanks to not being affected by CTB's power which works on the higher temporal dimension which proved that Timestream is also the higher temporal dimension.

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Agree

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Take a look at this diagram for how Ethereal Divide work.
Before merging

After merging

Made by @Lloydblitzed

Why these diagrams looks like biology's bacterium diagrams?

 

[REX9097]

Why these diagrams looks like biology's bacterium diagrams?

Hmm ask @Lloydblitzed

 

[Ben_10_Stick_Nodes]

Why these diagrams looks like biology's bacterium diagrams?

 

[Ben_10_Stick_Nodes]

Agree with the OP

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So what's the argument against the Ethereal Divide being higher dimensional and not just empty space between universes?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Why these diagrams looks like biology's bacterium diagrams?

Ninjago is just a big fat bacterium

The Imperium's use of the Source Dragon has caused a threat to the fabric of existence which includes the ED and it has been shown to have affected him as well (the Source Dragon says if it is released again the threat will threaten and affect the fabric of existence)

Okay you gotta provide a scan.

Destroying The Overlord's dimension will prevent The Overlord from ever coming back to life, which must be CD, as The Overlord comes back to life every time he is destroyed thanks to Immortality Type 9.

Uh… no? Overlord’s spirit form has his own Immortality and Regeneration.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So what's the argument against the Ethereal Divide being higher dimensional and not just empty space between universes?

Fitting this critera

Regarding the Separation of Universes​

It should be recognized that travel between universes is not feasible unless through the use of a portal or similar unusual mechanisms. This is because it should be impossible for two distinct universes to be connected by a path that only goes through regular 3 dimensional space. Universes must be separated by something other than 3 dimensional distance or physical barriers, otherwise they would be considered to both be part of one large universe for our tiering purposes.

The most typical example is the presence of a higher dimensional space serving as a separator. In other words, two separate universes coexist in a four dimensional or even higher dimensional space, occupying different position along some additional dimensional axis. Therefore, in order to travel between such universes, the movement must be through the higher dimensional space between them. To summarize, two realms are separated through a higher dimension space if

1. A larger space encompasses all the universes or space-times
2. This space is of a higher dimensional nature.

As well as being called a Realm, which often refers to a universe in Ninjago

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Seems reasonable. Agreed.

Why these diagrams looks like biology's bacterium diagrams?

They kinda do. lol

 

[REX9097]

So what's the argument against the Ethereal Divide being higher dimensional and not just empty space between universes?

Being a realm, and unaffected by the Mergequakes storm, which only work with a higher spatio-temporal dimensions existing, and fitting the criteria for "Regarding the Separation of Universes" then space is of a higher dimensional nature.

 

[REX9097]

Okay you gotta provide a scan.

So you agree?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

So you agree?

Give a scan where it says “the very fabric of existence”. If it really says that I can agree

 

[REX9097]

Give a scan where it says “the very fabric of existence”. If it really says that I can agree

1. Source Dragon should be Low 1-C stats also. Given that the Imperium was a threat to the very fabric of existence and it also affects him too due to capturing a Source Dragon, with Source Dragon himself stating that he can affect and destroy cosmology.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Fitting this critera


As well as being called a Realm, which often refers to a universe in Ninjago

This by itself wouldn't constitute Low 1-C. Otherwise, every multiverse with space in-between would be Low 1-C. The space between parallel worlds only works as supporting evidence, but you still need main evidence like the space itself being infinitely larger than the space it encompasses.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Disagree too with Low 1-C.

You have to prove that the space between universes is also relevant in size compared to them (like being significantly larger to the point of holding the universes as a small part of itself), and not just exist, otherwise every 2-C guy and above would be Tier 1 due to their attacks being big enough to cover said space.

 

[REX9097]

This by itself wouldn't constitute Low 1-C. Otherwise, every multiverse with space in-between would be Low 1-C. The space between parallel worlds only works as supporting evidence, but you still need main evidence like the space itself being infinitely larger than the space it encompasses.

However, the Timestream not needed to prove this, it was proven to be a higher temporal dimension by being unaffected by CTB power, since a Chronosapien's time powers only work with a higher temporal dimension existing, which also proved that the Timestream has its own separate temporality than the branching timelines. This should also apply to the Ethereal Divide, since it is unaffected by the Mergequakes storm. Since a The Ethereal Divide was unaffected by Mergequakes storm, which only work with a higher spatio-temporal dimension existing, so Ethereal Divide has its own separate spatiotemporality than realms.
Note: The Ninjago realm has infinite space, and he as an infinitesimal part of the Ethereal Divide. Since a The Ethereal Divide are have 17 realms, and they all contain infinite space, and Ninjago realm is part of those realms.

 

[Hellformer]

However, the Timestream not needed to prove this, it was proven to be a higher temporal dimension by being unaffected by CTB power, since a Chronosapien's time powers only work with a higher temporal dimension existing, which also proved that the Timestream has its own separate temporality than the branching timelines. This should also apply to the Ethereal Divide, since it is unaffected by the Mergequakes storm. Since a The Ethereal Divide was unaffected by Mergequakes storm, which only work with a higher spatio-temporal dimension existing, so Ethereal Divide has its own separate spatiotemporality than realms.

Timestream's Low 1-C rating comes due to ad infinitum branching of each 2-A spatio-temporal layer

Note: The Ninjago realm has infinite space, and he as an infinitesimal part of the Ethereal Divide. Since a The Ethereal Divide are have 17 realms, and they all contain infinite space, and Ninjago realm is part of those realms.

I'll suggest you some ways in discord dms.

 

[REX9097]

Timestream's Low 1-C rating comes due to ad infinitum branching of each 2-A spatio-temporal layer

I'll suggest you some ways in discord dms.

The mother we talk about this and you said that is "This is a supporting evidence"

 

[Hellformer]

The mother we talk about this and you said that is "This is a supporting evidence"

Will explain on cord.

 

[Hellformer]

Quoting all possible ways to reach Low 1-C with a tier 2 cosmology:

• Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni.
• A spacetime continuum with two time axes, instead of just one, could likewise be visualized as a line comprised of uncountably infinitely many points, each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one uncountably infinite level above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C.
• To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for dimensional superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being larger than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. ℵ1 number of universes is Low 1-C

 

[Hellformer]

Or summarising the requirements into easy explanations:

• Lower Dimensional space should be a subset of higher dimensional space with the higher space having supporting evidence for having an extra spatial axis.
• Having an extra time axis which encompasses uncountably infinite snapshots of 4-D space-time continuums
• Having uncountably infinite number of 2-A structures.
• Distance between Low 2-C/2-B/2-A structures should be significant in size.

I wish I was knowledgeable about ninjago cosmology, I would've helped a lot for tier 1 stuff.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

• A spacetime continuum with two time axes, instead of just one, could likewise be visualized as a line comprised of uncountably infinitely many points, each of which is a static "snapshot" of the entire regular timeline with 3 space and 1 time dimension. It would hence be one uncountably infinite level above a timeline and as such baseline Low 1-C

The Ninjago Realm (a space-time) contains a world with it a time axis, and The Time Vortex was shown to be a timestream containing the timelines multiple other seperate space-times (even erased events) with their own Time Axis, wouldn't they qualify?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Disagree too with Low 1-C.

You have to prove that the space between universes is also relevant in size compared to them (like being significantly larger to the point of holding the universes as a small part of itself), and not just exist, otherwise every 2-C guy and above would be Tier 1 due to their attacks being big enough to cover said space.

The ED is so big it not only contains the Realms, but nows covers their entire Universal sized space where they were once located

 

[Hellformer]

The Ninjago Realm (a space-time) contains a world with it a time axis, and The Time Vortex was shown to be a timestream containing the timelines multiple other seperate space-times (even erased events) with their own Time Axis, wouldn't they qualify?

Sounds good enough, elaborate more about this ask @REX9097 to put that elaboration in the OP