Ninjago Garmadon Downgrade

[Minaaaa]

This downgrade is only for one part of Garmadon's tier, that being his full power. He was stated to be able to battle back the entire Oni army at full power and that the Oni would destroy all the realms, but this misunderstand the Oni's power. They weren't affecting the entire 4-D space of the realm, just filling them up with their dark cloud and since the realms are hinted at to be infinite, This more fits with High 3-A instead of 2-C

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time.

So Garmadon's rating should be changed High 3-A instead of being 2-C

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Onis were stated to eventually destroy all of the Realms, so I would frankly disagree

 

[Minaaaa]

this was due to them taking over and filling the realms with their darkness cloud, not destroying the 4-D space

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Seems simple. Oni as race were not able to physically destroy realms like via raw power. Agree.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

agree

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This downgrade is only for one part of Garmadon's tier, that being his full power. He was stated to be able to battle back the entire Oni army at full power and that the Oni would destroy all the realms, but this misunderstand the Oni's power. They weren't affecting the entire 4-D space of the realm, just filling them up with their dark cloud and since the realms are hinted at to be infinite, This more fits with High 3-A instead of 2-C

So Garmadon's rating should be changed High 3-A instead of being 2-C

Realms were proven to be 4D sized via having Space Time.

As well as many scans they can destroy them entirely

Here indicating the Omega was gonna destroy whole Ninjago Realm

Many other description also debunking your point:

The Realms aren't even 3D, so that doesn't even fit the tier

And it what logical way is he "not affecting the entire Realm" ?

Disagree

 

[Lloydblitzed]

this was due to them taking over and filling the realms with their darkness cloud, not destroying the 4-D space

That doesn't prove how they can't destroy the 4D Spaces lol

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Realms were proven to be 4D sized via having Space Time.

As well as many scans they can destroy them entirely

Here indicating the Omega was gonna destroy whole Ninjago Realm

Many other description also debunking your point:

The Realms aren't even 3D, so that doesn't even fit the tier

And it what logical way is he "not affecting the entire Realm" ?

Disagree

In fact, Oni didn't show anything to be at the same level as FSM and the Overlord to have 2-C tier. Your scans can also be interpreted as "Oni wil destroy all of landmass of Ninjago" or, which is more likely, they will destroy all life in the Realms (which is the main point of Destruction).

Also, in the show itself, Oni were weaker than FSM or the Overlord, so Garmadon and Oni shouldn't have a same tier as the most strongest characters in the verse.

In my opinion, only three things in the verse should have 2-C:

1. The Overlord
2. The FSM
3. The Source Dragons

 

[Lloydblitzed]

In fact, Oni didn't show anything to be at the same level as FSM and the Overlord to have 2-C tier. Your scans can also be interpreted as "Oni wil destroy all of landmass of Ninjago" or, which is more likely, they will destroy all life in the Realms (which is the main point of Destruction).

Also, in the show itself, Oni were weaker than FSM or the Overlord, so Garmadon and Oni shouldn't have a same tier as the most strongest characters in the verse.

In my opinion, only three things in the verse should have 2-C:

1. The Overlord
2. The FSM
3. The Source Dragons

Wu litterally said they would take over all the Realms. Via what logic are they affecting any 3D spaces. just because the Onis are weaker then FSM doesn't even explain or prove anything. Just bc they aren't on FSM level means they can't destroy the Multiverse? How would that logic possibly even work?

Even the first episodes description debunks the whole CRT

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Seems simple. Oni as race were not able to physically destroy realms like via raw power. Agree.

You don’t always need raw power to destroy the universes…

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Realms were proven to be 4D sized via having Space Time.

As well as many scans they can destroy them entirely

Here indicating the Omega was gonna destroy whole Ninjago Realm

Many other description also debunking your point:

The Realms aren't even 3D, so that doesn't even fit the tier

And it what logical way is he "not affecting the entire Realm" ?

Disagree

W

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This downgrade is only for one part of Garmadon's tier, that being his full power. He was stated to be able to battle back the entire Oni army at full power and that the Oni would destroy all the realms, but this misunderstand the Oni's power. They weren't affecting the entire 4-D space of the realm, just filling them up with their dark cloud and since the realms are hinted at to be infinite, This more fits with High 3-A instead of 2-C

So Garmadon's rating should be changed High 3-A instead of being 2-C

Disagree FRA

 

[Minaaaa]

Realms were proven to be 4D sized via having Space Time.

As well as many scans they can destroy them entirely

Here indicating the Omega was gonna destroy whole Ninjago Realm

Many other description also debunking your point:

The Realms aren't even 3D, so that doesn't even fit the tier

And it what logical way is he "not affecting the entire Realm" ?

Disagree

I never argued the realms aren't 4-D, im saying the Oni arent affecting the entire space-time of the realm. They are only affecting the realms spacially by covering it in their dark cloud, which is what the show suggests and what wu literally says. "Destroying the realms" in this context just means the Oni are taking over the realms with their cloud, which isnt even physical destruction as buildings and people were still left standing. They are 'destroying the realms' through their gradual takeover not physically destroying the entire 4-D space, which is why we dont have The Preeminent rated as 2-C for doing virtually the same thing.

​

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I never argued the realms aren't 4-D, im saying the Oni arent affecting the entire space-time of the realm. They are only affecting the realms spacially by covering it in their dark cloud, which is what the show suggests and what wu literally says. "Destroying the realms" in this context just means the Oni are taking over the realms with their cloud, which isnt even physical destruction as buildings and people were still left standing. They are 'destroying the realms' through their gradual takeover not physically destroying the entire 4-D space, which is why we dont have The Preeminent rated as 2-C for doing virtually the same thing.

​

They are affecting the whole Realms with their cloud putting them at 2-C. Nothing suggest they can't destroy them physically either lol

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I never argued the realms aren't 4-D, im saying the Oni arent affecting the entire space-time of the realm. They are only affecting the realms spacially by covering it in their dark cloud, which is what the show suggests and what wu literally says. "Destroying the realms" in this context just means the Oni are taking over the realms with their cloud, which isnt even physical destruction as buildings and people were still left standing. They are 'destroying the realms' through their gradual takeover not physically destroying the entire 4-D space, which is why we dont have The Preeminent rated as 2-C for doing virtually the same thing.

​

We can go vice versa: putting the Realms into the Darkness could be the figurative of destroying the Realms (in a sense that there will be nothing left from them). Onis decided to invade the Realms first, defeating those who could prevent their plan from happening (Ninjas, Dragons, Monks, etc.). Then they would destroy them. Also, it would make no sense for Garmadon to desperately the Ninjas: all he cared is for the survival, and Garmadon is unaffected by Oni’s Cloud, so his actions would make no sense. Also it would make no sense for Oni’s power to be called Destruction and shown to destroy the tree which Dragon created (in Mistake explaining origins of FSM scene). Also if you think logically, FSM was a child “having powers of both sides” (Onis and Dragons), so it hints that he used his Creation side of Golden Power from Dragons to create the Realms, hence he would be able to destroy them using his Destruction side of Golden Power from Onis (although it isn’t really stated anywhere, it isn’t my main proof, but more of logical backup). Also Garmadon’s Oni form would still scale to 2-C due to harming Crystal King and tanking his blasts.

 

[Minaaaa]

They are affecting the whole Realms with their cloud putting them at 2-C. Nothing suggest they can't destroy them physically either lol

Q: When is the destruction or creation of a universe or timeline ranked as Low 2-C (Universe level+)?​

A: As the Tiering System specifies, the affected area either has to be a large four dimensional space, be qualitatively superior to three dimensional spaces or, most commonly, be an entire space-time continuum.

The latter means that all of the three-dimensional space of the universe has to be destroyed or created, at each moment in time. I.e. the entire timeline has to be destroyed.

The Oni's feat doesn't fit with the 2-C. Even Wu said they would cover the realms in darkness, not physically destroy them, with the in series footage backing it up

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The Oni's feat doesn't fit with the 2-C. Even Wu said they would cover the realms in darkness, not physically destroy them, with the in series footage backing it up

Prove they can't physically destroy them. Nothing suggest that

 

[Minaaaa]

Prove they can't physically destroy them. Nothing suggest that

because they havent been shown to be able to? Prove they can physically destroy the realms

 

[Lloydblitzed]

because they havent been shown to be able to? Prove they can physically destroy the realms

I have shown countless scans that states they can completly destroy it. Prove the scans wrong

 

[Minaaaa]

I have shown countless scans that states they can completly destroy it. Prove the scans wrong

This isnt due to their raw power or physical destruction. Destroying the realm in this case just means them taking over the realms with their cloud, which is what the show says. "Destroying X" doesnt mean much without context, just like 'destroying the world' isnt always 5-B

 

[Lloydblitzed]

This isnt due to their raw power or physical destruction. Destroying the realm in this case just means them taking over the realms with their cloud, which is what the show says. "Destroying X" doesnt mean much without context, just like 'destroying the world' isnt always 5-BT

What the hell is that raw power thing, ur telling me the cloud of destruction aren't their raw power

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

What the hell is that raw power thing, ur telling me the cloud of destruction aren't their raw power

Lol, no. Cloud of Destruction didn't show anything that can be accepted as 2-C. Never.

 

[StrymULTRA]

This isnt due to their raw power or physical destruction. Destroying the realm in this case just means them taking over the realms with their cloud, which is what the show says. "Destroying X" doesnt mean much without context, just like 'destroying the world' isnt always 5-B

This is genuinely a terrible argument. We're dealing with higher infinities here, this is why dealing even the smallest of damage to a Tier 2/1 thing makes you that tier.

You can't destroy a Tier 2/1 structure without being in the same tier, otherwise you won't deal any significant damage to it.

 

[Minaaaa]

This is genuinely a terrible argument. We're dealing with higher infinities here, this is why dealing even the smallest of damage to a Tier 2/1 thing makes you that tier.

You can't destroy a Tier 2/1 structure without being in the same tier, otherwise you won't deal any significant damage to it.

Except this is explicitly NOT what the Oni are doing. They aren't destroying or affecting the entire dimensional structure of the realm, they are just filling the realms up with their cloud of darkness, they literally say and show this in the show

Wu: It is an Oni. My father called them the Bringers of Doom. He feared that they would one day spread out from their realm and cover all the lands of creation in darkness.

The Oni "Destroying the Realms" is them taking over the realms and filling them with their cloud, not the destruction of the entire space-time.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Except this is explicitly NOT what the Oni are doing. They aren't destroying or affecting the entire dimensional structure of the realm, they are just filling the realms up with their cloud of darkness, they literally say and show this in the show

Wu: It is an Oni. My father called them the Bringers of Doom. He feared that they would one day spread out from their realm and cover all the lands of creation in darkness.

The Oni "Destroying the Realms" is them taking over the realms and filling them with their cloud, not the destruction of the entire space-time.

If they were only covering it up in darkness, why the hell these scans specifically implies they can destroy it. U completly ignored Orange's point, and btw Onis element is litterally DESTRUCTION There no possible way its referring to "Only cover the Realms in Darkness"

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Lol, no. Cloud of Destruction didn't show anything that can be accepted as 2-C. Never.

Via what? Convering "landmasses" ?

 

[Minaaaa]

If they were only covering it up in darkness, why the hell these scans specifically implies they can destroy it. U completly ignored Orange's point, and btw Onis element is litterally DESTRUCTION There no possible way its referring to "Only cover the Realms in Darkness"

They dont, you're taking the statements at face value, which is why context is important when talking about "destroying x" feats

 

[StrymULTRA]

They dont, you're taking the statements at face value, which is why context is important when talking about "destroying x" feats

This wiki does all the time, wym.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

If they were only covering it up in darkness, why the hell these scans specifically implies they can destroy it. U completly ignored Orange's point, and btw Onis element is litterally DESTRUCTION There no possible way its referring to "Only cover the Realms in Darkness"

Read the top text. Destruction only wants to erase all life. Didn't stated about erase all Realms.

 

[Minaaaa]

This wiki does all the time, wym.

Doesnt make it right

 

[Minaaaa]

Read the top text. Destruction only wants to erase all life. Didn't stated about erase all Realms.

Even in this scan, it says they're just covering it in their cloud of darkness (bottom right)

 

[Arceus0x]

So uhh do the realms have 4D space or are they good ol' 3D space+ 1D of time?
How do Oni get from one realm to the other?
To be 2-C you need to affect the universes by crossing the higher d space that separates them (let's say an explosion that covers two universes or making the universes approach each other and fuse them). If they are just filling up universes with destructive clouds then it could truly just be a High 3-A feat and it would put doubt onto whether anyone would even scale to that. If they destroy the entire universes fully (space+time) but do it one at a time or use portals then it'd just be above baseline Low 2-C.

 

[Arceus0x]

From what I see in the book it also seems like they just spread clouds that cause destruction which you'd need to prove is on a 4D scale and not just destroying the 3D part of the universe

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Read the top text. Destruction only wants to erase all life. Didn't stated about erase all Realms.

6 scans destroys your argument

 

[Lloydblitzed]

From what I see in the book it also seems like they just spread clouds that cause destruction which you'd need to prove is on a 4D scale and not just destroying the 3D part of the universe

The scans I sent implies he can destroy the whole realms, and the fact it erase all life in it is normal, that's what happens when a Realm gets destroyed

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So uhh do the realms have 4D space or are they good ol' 3D space+ 1D of time?
How do Oni get from one realm to the other?
To be 2-C you need to affect the universes by crossing the higher d space that separates them (let's say an explosion that covers two universes or making the universes approach each other and fuse them). If they are just filling up universes with destructive clouds then it could truly just be a High 3-A feat and it would put doubt onto whether anyone would even scale to that. If they destroy the entire universes fully (space+time) but do it one at a time or use portals then it'd just be above baseline Low 2-C.

Onis can cross the space between the Realms, this was shown in S10

 

[Minaaaa]

You can even argue that the Oni's cloud isnt even physical destruction, as their cloud functions by freezing anyone without oni blood and not physical destruction as no buildings, pixal's mech, cole's car, etc were destroyed in the cloud

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You can even argue that the Oni's cloud isnt even physical destruction, as their cloud functions by freezing anyone without oni blood and not physical destruction as no buildings, pixal's mech, cole's car, etc were destroyed in the cloud

Doesn't contradict the fact they can affect the Realms

 

[Arceus0x]

Onis can cross the space between the Realms, this was shown in S10

crossing them isn't the same, that's just dimensional travel. for 2-C you need an attack that affects both universes and the higher dimensional space in between them

 

[Minaaaa]

The scans I sent implies he can destroy the whole realms, and the fact it erase all life in it is normal, that's what happens when a Realm gets destroyed

The scans of it saying "they can destroy the realms" are meaningless. HOW are they doing it? We already have a statement on how, but none of the scans mention the physical destruction of the realm, only spacially filling them up with darkness, which is important for statements like this.