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New Star Trek revisions
- Thread starter Aeyu
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- #82
The 1-A stuff is in relation to his non-canon, licensed self, though. Only a few of the books and the Image Comics outside of the movies, TV Shows and animated series are to be considered canon.
And literally just the Q, Q Continuum and Q-Prophet would scale to the High 1-B stuff. I don't necessarily know if any of the others would scale.
And literally just the Q, Q Continuum and Q-Prophet would scale to the High 1-B stuff. I don't necessarily know if any of the others would scale.
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i agree whith everything for the most part but i dont think that there is enough evidence for 1-A nagiluum on the other stufff i fully agree
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The page on the Enterprise-D should also be reverted to it's original state, just like the NCC-1701's was: the original calcs were solidly referenced, and were only changed in the first place to fit a non-canon manual with strong contradictions to lore. XING06 has made some changes to the article, but the original calcs have yet to be fully restored.
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are you idazmi7 from youtube ?Idazmi said:
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I fail to see how that is relevant. What's relevant is the fact that the Enterprise-D page lists the Enterprise-D as 6-A with it's phasers and High 6-A with photon torpedoes: the same tiers as the Enterprise from a century ago, "scaling from the original Enterprise"... while also listing the Enterprise-D as 5-A "at highest single function output" drawing from the main engines. This is a distinct problem because it's established that phasers draw their energy directly from the same main engines.Juliusz2006 said:
The reference for the 5-A feat is the episode The Masterpiece Society (transcript here) in which they boost the power of the tractor beam to 400% to move a neutron star fragment. That means the typical power output is 1/5th of that, which would be 5-A, easily. In the episode Deja Q, (transcript here) Commander Riker casually brings up the idea of blowing a moon with a "ferrous crystalline structure" (iron crystals) into pieces. That's 5-C, and it doesn't contradict the ability to generate energy enough to reach 5-A.
Meanwhile, the page lists the ship as High 6-A at most: the same as it's century old predecessor, which - according to both dialogue and multiple feats - could casually destroy a continent.
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I recently made two proposals for revising the Enterprise-D. Here they are.
For phasers, High 8-C at lowest frequencies, 6-B at maximum frequencies | For photon torpedoes, 7-B at lowest yield, 6-A at highest yield | 5-A with multiphase tractor beam
Or the second one.
For phasers, High 8-C at lowest frequencies, 6-A at maximum frequencies | For photon torpedoes, 7-B at lowest yield, High 6-A at highest yield | 5-A with multiphase tractor beam
This was scaling to the Romulan/Cardassian fleet bombardment in the DS9 two-parter which featured the Battle of the Omarion Nebula, because obviously a single ship cannot compare to 20 vessels of comparable power and technology, and Idazmi refused to accept it. Even though he was basically right about the tractor beam, but dead wrong about their weapons. Why do I say he's right about their tractor beams? Because in retrospect, I remember how Torres used a subspace tractor beam to mess with a quantum singularity, which is a black hole. This is through hax, however, and not DC, otherwise their weapons could destroy a planet in one hit. That Klingon in "The Chase" wouldn't need to burn off the atmosphere if he could just blast the planet out of existence. Same with the fleet attacking the planet. What was Idazmi's argument? To use headcanon and claim they had more power they weren't using. Any more DC would mean they could destroy the planet, given his wild claims of planetary and stellar level power, and he actually even told me he thought the Enterprise-D with one precise and concentrated strike could take on and beat the fleet that attacked the Founders' homeworld. Does anybody think that this guy is somehow credible? When this kind of a compromise won't satisfy him?
For phasers, High 8-C at lowest frequencies, 6-B at maximum frequencies | For photon torpedoes, 7-B at lowest yield, 6-A at highest yield | 5-A with multiphase tractor beam
Or the second one.
For phasers, High 8-C at lowest frequencies, 6-A at maximum frequencies | For photon torpedoes, 7-B at lowest yield, High 6-A at highest yield | 5-A with multiphase tractor beam
This was scaling to the Romulan/Cardassian fleet bombardment in the DS9 two-parter which featured the Battle of the Omarion Nebula, because obviously a single ship cannot compare to 20 vessels of comparable power and technology, and Idazmi refused to accept it. Even though he was basically right about the tractor beam, but dead wrong about their weapons. Why do I say he's right about their tractor beams? Because in retrospect, I remember how Torres used a subspace tractor beam to mess with a quantum singularity, which is a black hole. This is through hax, however, and not DC, otherwise their weapons could destroy a planet in one hit. That Klingon in "The Chase" wouldn't need to burn off the atmosphere if he could just blast the planet out of existence. Same with the fleet attacking the planet. What was Idazmi's argument? To use headcanon and claim they had more power they weren't using. Any more DC would mean they could destroy the planet, given his wild claims of planetary and stellar level power, and he actually even told me he thought the Enterprise-D with one precise and concentrated strike could take on and beat the fleet that attacked the Founders' homeworld. Does anybody think that this guy is somehow credible? When this kind of a compromise won't satisfy him?
if Enterprise is High 5-A than is Voyager Prometheus and others. Ethically and Morally consistency is an excellent quantity to have
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As I said in my thread, that's a compromise to the Trek highballers, because their weapons never actually go higher than continental level. I've already proven those "moon-level" feats Idazmi spoke of were of to "small moons" about the size of Phobos. Even Geordi confirms that. And I could further back it up with screenshots. The "feat" from Tycho IV? Was never accomplished with their ship's arsenal and the vessel itself had to back off, which tells you a lot, really. Eminiar VII? I rewatch that episode a lot, so they talk about the "entire inhabited surface." The feat with the Doomsday Machine is impressive, but because Commodore Decker never gives a specific timeframe and taking "chunks" out of a planet is also vague, we never see how long it takes for the machine to consume a planet. I'd say there's the evidence to support my proposal. And Idazmi somehow thinks it's inconsistent with TNG. The soliton wave? They said it can take out "most of the planet," but most is also vague. Most is probably somewhere around 50%, like Idazmi said, but doesn't mean a torpedo at maximum yield can blow up half a planet, or the Romulans and Cardassians would have done so with fewer ships and it wouldn't have been such a massive operation, and his argument that they were holding power in reserve falls apart because they were going there to commit genocide, they were confident the Founders didn't know, so there was no reason to hold back except by perhaps the tiniest amount, not the lion's share of their energy like he implies, so they could recloak and get the hell out of there, especially since despite their confidence, time was a factor before reinforcements arrived, six hours or so. The Husnock ship "pulverizing a planet" clearly means the inhabited surface, and we see that when the away team beams down. Plus it took them days to arrive. Idazmi really is a Trek wanker to the highest degree, and not even a compromise to help future debaters will satisfy his raging Trek ego. Because I already conceded the multiphase tractor beam and subspace tractor beam feats as legit. I just don't think they scale to their weapons given the many times they could have tried to use them, and don't.
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Yukaphile, please do not write these long paragraphs because they are hard to follow and can easly qualify as Argumentum ad verbosium.
Likewise, please link the sources of your claim such as scans for your claims.
Likewise, please link the sources of your claim such as scans for your claims.
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This is Appeal to motiveYukaphile said:
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1. The bomb used against the gaseous lifeform on Tycho IV from the TOS episode "Obsession," which Idazmi has brought up as a feat before and even posted a picture of the planet after the blast went off.
KIRK: Report, Mister Chekov.
CHEKOV: Results positive, Captain. The creature has left the ship at high warp speed and is already nearly out of scanner range. The way that thing can move, Captain, I wouldn't believe it.
KIRK: Direction, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: It was bearing one two seven mark nine, but I've lost it now.
KIRK: (into intercom) Mister Scott, I'll need all the speed you can deliver. Keep at it until we begin to shake apart. Kirk out. I believe I know where it's going.
SPOCK: It has changed course before to mislead us, Captain. Logic would dictate that
KIRK: No, I'm playing intuition. Mister Chekov, compute a course for Tychos star system.
CHEKOV: Computed and on the board.
KIRK: Ahead full.
CHEKOV: Ahead full, sir.
KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, contact Starfleet and the USS Yorktown.
UHURA: Frequency open and clear, sir.
KIRK: Inform them that we are pursuing the creature to planet four of that system. That's the location of its attack on the USS Farragut eleven years ago.
SPOCK: I do not understand, Captain.
KIRK: In Garrovick's quarters, I said the scent of the creature was somehow different. Something in my mind said home.
SPOCK: And you know where home is, Captain?
KIRK: Yes, I think I do. I don't know how I know, but home is where it fought a starship once before. Ito Uhura) Inform them of our tactical situation and inform them I'm committing this vessel to the destruction of the creature. We will rendezvous. Round-trip time, Mister Chekov.
CHEKOV: One point seven days, sir.
KIRK: We will rendezvous with the USS Yorktown in forty eight hours.
(later)
MCCOY: I assume that you now believe we should pursue the creature and destroy it.
SPOCK: Precisely.
KIRK: You don't agree with Mister Spock?
MCCOY: It's the time factor that bothers me. Those drugs are perishable.
SPOCK: Doctor, evidence indicates the creature is here to spawn. If so, it will reproduce by fission, not just into two parts, but thousands.
KIRK: Antimatter seems our only possibility.
SPOCK: An ounce should be sufficient. We can drain it from the ship's engines and transport it to the planet surface in a magnetic vacuum field.
KIRK: Contact medical stores. I want as much haemoplasm as they can spare in the transporter room in fifteen minutes.
GARROVICK: Yes, sir.
MCCOY: I presume you intend to use that haemoplasm to attract the creature?
KIRK: We must get it to the antimatter. It seems attracted to red blood cells. What better bait could we have?
SPOCK: There is still one problem, Captain.
KIRK: The blast, yes.
SPOCK: Exactly. A matter-antimatter blast will rip away half the planet's atmosphere. If our vessel is in orbit and encounters those shock waves
KIRK: A chance we'll have to take, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Also, we cannot be certain the transporter will operate under those conditions. If a man is beaming up when that hits, we may lose him.
KIRK: That's exactly why I've decided to set the trap myself.
SPOCK: Captain, there is so little hemoglobin in my green blood, the creature could not harm me extensively. It therefore seems logical for me to be the one
KIRK: Negative, Mister Spock. In case this plan fails, I'll need you aboard the ship. In that event, we'll need another plan.
SPOCK: It will require two men to transport the antimatter unit.
GARROVICK: I'd like permission to go with you, sir.
KIRK: I had you in mind, Mister Garrovick.
I will admit to a bit of an error here, as I was recalling the episode from memory, and thought they got the bomb from the armory. They did not. They drained the antimatter from their engines, yet it's quite clear they could not withstand the full effects of the explosion because they had to pull away by a substantial distance in the actual episode, something Spock even comments on. Idazmi has posted a picture of the resulting "crack" in the planet.
So that left a continental or moon-sized crater, yet they obviously couldn't tank said hits. And it wasn't using their photon torpedoes or their phasers as I had said, but most likely siphoning the antimatter directly from their warp plasma reactor.
2. The threats to "destroy" Eminiar VII from the TOS episode "A Taste of Armageddon," which was clearly meant to communicate the razing of the surface of the planet, and not actually blowing up the planet with one hit or two hits as some people would have you think.
(Kirk enters, quietly, but Anan knows he is there without turning around.)
ANAN: Won't you join me in a drink, Captain? You'll find our trova most interesting.
KIRK: I didn't come to drink.
ANAN: I assume that is what you used to destroy disintegration chamber number twelve.
KIRK: A very efficient weapon. I'm not afraid of using it.
ANAN: My first impression was correct. You are a barbarian.
KIRK: I am?
ANAN: Don't sound so incredulous, Captain. Of course you are. We all are. A killer first, a builder second. A hunter, a warrior, and let's be honest, a murderer. That is our joint heritage, is it not?
KIRK: We're less cold-blooded about it than you are.
ANAN: What do you want, Captain?
KIRK: I want to contact my ship. Where are my communicators?
ANAN: In a safe place.
KIRK: You take a lot of chances, Councilman.
ANAN: You're worried about your ship, Captain. I'm trying to save a world.
KIRK: If I were you, I'd think about saving my life.
ANAN: Won't you have a drink, Captain?
(Kirk pours himself a slug of trova, and as he turns his back, Anan presses concealed buttons.)
ANAN: And then we can discuss our differences.
KIRK: I'm not interested in discussing our differences. You don't seem to realise the risk you're taking. We don't make war with computers and herd the casualties into suicide stations. We make the real thing, Councilman. I could destroy this planet.
ANAN: Why do you think I don't let you talk to your ship ?
KIRK: I don't need the ship for that.
ANAN: You mean, all by yourself with a disruptor, you can destroy this planet?
KIRK: That's exactly what I mean.
ANAN: I had no idea you were so formidable.
KIRK: You seem to think I'm joking. Where are the communicators?
ANAN: If I told you, Captain, would you walk right out and get them?
KIRK: Something like that.
ANAN: Very well, Captain. They're in the War Room. Go left down the corridor, left again. They are unguarded.
Wow. For people who had boasted of the "numerous" planetary level statements in "A Taste of Armageddon," they seem to forget that it was limited to merely three - this here, where Kirk was clearly bluffing to stall for time, given that both men were playing each other (unless somebody seriously thinks Kirk could destroy a planet with a disruptor), and the second and third which I will show you right now.
ANAN: Unless you immediately start transportation of all personnel aboard your ship to the surface, the hostages will be killed. You have thirty minutes. I mean it, Captain.
KIRK: All that it means is that I won't be around for the destruction. You heard me give General Order Twenty Four. That means in two hours the Enterprise will destroy Eminiar Seven.
ANAN: Planetary defence System, open fire on the Enterprise!
SECURITY [OC]: I'm sorry, Councilman. The target has moved out of range.
ANAN: You wouldn't do this. Hundreds of millions of people.
KIRK: I didn't start it, Councilman, but I'm liable to finish it.
Kirk says this, buuuuuuuut... as Scotty confirms a few scenes later with more detail...
[Bridge]
SCOTT: Open a channel, Lieutenant. This is the commander of the USS Enterprise.
[Council Room]
SCOTT [OC]: All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In one hour and forty five minutes
[Bridge]
SCOTT: The entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed.
[Council Room]
SCOTT: You have that long to surrender your hostages.
Note the phrasing. The "entire inhabited surface." That's too detailed to imply they're going to destroy mountains, to render the planet itself sterile or something else, or just blow it away, erase it from existence like blasting it with a Kamehameha point-blank. They were specifically targeting military bases, automated facilities, and cities to take out most habitable population centers and areas of defense. In other words, places with lots of people or locations that could offer heavy resistance.
3. Battling the Doomsday Machine, from the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine," before anyone can bring up how the Enterprise went toe-to-toe with a planet eater.
KIRK: Matt, where's your crew?
DECKER: On the third planet.
KIRK: There is no third planet.
DECKER: Don't you think I know that? There was, but not anymore. They called me. They begged me for help, four hundred of them. I couldn't. I couldn't. (breaks down in tears)
SCOTT: Captain, Washburn has our report.
KIRK: Go.
WASHBURN: We made a complete check on structural and control damage, sir. As far as we can tell, something crashed through the deflectors and knocked out the generators. Somehow the antimatter in the warp drive pods has been deactivated.
KIRK: Deactivated? Scotty, could some kind of general energy dampening field do that, and would the same type of thing account for the heavy subspace interference?
SCOTT: Aye, that all adds up. But what sort of a thing could do all that?
DECKER: If you'd seen it, you'd know. The whole thing's a weapon. It must be.
KIRK: What does it look like?
DECKER: Well, it's miles long, with a maw that could swallow a dozen starships. It destroys planets, chops them into rubble.
KIRK: What is it, an alien ship? Or is it alive, or is it
DECKER: Both or neither. I don't know.
KIRK: Matt, your log stated that the fourth planet was breaking up. You went in to investigate.
DECKER: We saw this thing hovering over the planet, slicing out chunks of it with a force beam.
KIRK: Did you run a scanner check on it? What kind of a beam?
DECKER: Pure antiproton. Absolutely pure.
KIRK: (answers communicator) Kirk here.
SPOCK [OC]: Spock here, Captain.
Now, no timeframes are given, but note how he said the Doomsday Machine was taking "chunks" out of the planet. How much is "chunks?" We don't see it eat up planets, so to say how much is purely theoretical. Also note that the Enterprise repeatedly lost to this machine. Taking it on was suicide until they could get inside its interior hole, where it was vulnerable, and release a large antimatter explosion to shut it down. Even then it didn't destroy it. This thing was clearly superior to the Enterprise and I'd argue anything found a century later. You could even make the case the Doomsday Machine was scaling down the intensity of its beam weapons to conserve power for when it would come across planets in order to maximize fuel efficiency in order to consume them for energy. Headcanon, but feel free to counter this point if you want.
4. The Enterprise blowing up the moon falling into orbit of Bre'el IV, from the TNG episode "Deja Q," which Idazmi says constitutes a moon-level feat.
First off, the Enterprise-D is 700 meters. The moon when scaled next to it is clearly visible in all frames. It's obviously not a real moon. It's a moon around the size of Phobos, which is 27 kilometers. Here, let me show you.
And here's the actual transcript.
DATA: The satellite's trajectory is continuing to deteriorate, Captain. This orbit will put it within five hundred kilometres of the planet surface.
GARIN [on viewscreen]: We're predicting the atmospheric drag will bring it down on the next orbit.
SCIENTIST [on viewscreen]: Have you been able to find any explanation for this?
DATA: No, Doctor. It is a most unusual phenomenon.
PICARD: Won't the moon disintegrate prior to impact?
SCIENTIST [on viewscreen]: No, it has a ferrous crystalline structure and it will be able to withstand tidal forces, Captain
RIKER: Could we blow it into pieces?
DATA: The total mass of the moon would remain the same, Commander, and the impact of thousands of fragments would spread destruction over an even wider area.
PICARD: How long before impact?
DATA: Twenty nine hours, sir. Projecting it somewhere on the western continent. That would destroy an area eight hundred kilometres in radius.
SCIENTIST [on viewscreen]: That damage would be insignificant, Captain, compared to the seismic repercussions massive landquakes, and tsunami.
GARIN [on viewscreen]: The force would raise a cloud of dust around the planet, leading to a significant temperature reduction. We could be looking at our own ice age.
PICARD: Mister La Forge, is there any way that the Enterprise could coax that satellite
From the TNG episode "Conundrum."
(everyone is working at the rear stations except Worf, who is in the Captain's chair)
MACDUFF: We've heard from all decks. There are over a thousand people on board. Everyone's had their memories affected in the same way we have.
WORF: I have completed a survey of our tactical systems. We are equipped with ten phaser banks, two hundred and fifty photon torpedoes, and a high capacity shield grid.
MACDUFF: We're a battleship.
They have a total of 250 torpedoes, which leads into my next point.
5. The Enterprise blowing up the asteroid from "The Pegasus" in one hit, which Idazmi seems to believe, even though claims from Riker say otherwise.
The asteroid in question looks to be about the size of the aforementioned small moon, maybe a bit bigger.
Here's the transcript.
RIKER: Geordi's found something.
LAFORGE: There's a subspace resonance signature coming from that asteroid, sir. It could be the warp core of the Pegasus.
PRESSMAN: I think he's right. I recognise some of the variance patterns.
PICARD: Put the asteroid on the main viewscreen.
DATA: I have confirmed Geordi's readings. The resonance signature is originating from somewhere beneath the asteroid's surface.
PRESSMAN: Beneath the surface? How's that possible?
DATA: This asteroid contains several deep chasms large enough for a starship to enter. It is possible the Pegasus drifted into the asteroid's gravitational field and was pulled down into one of the fissures.
WORF: Sir, the Romulan warbird has altered course once again. They are heading toward our position.
RIKER: They probably want to see what we're so interested in over here.
PICARD: Mister Data, how long will it take to determine the exact location of the Pegasus?
DATA: At least another six hours, sir.
PRESSMAN: That's too long. If the Romulans start searching the asteroid, they could find the ship before we do.
RIKER: I recommend we destroy the asteroid. It would take most of our photon torpedoes, but it would preclude any possibility of the Pegasus falling into Romulan hands.
PRESSMAN: Our top priority is to salvage the ship, Commander. I'll consider destroying it only as a last resort.
RIKER: Yes, sir.
PRESSMAN: Captain, could you give me a third alternative?
Idazmi or someone else suggested it would take a while to search through the asteroid because it was so yuuuuuuge, but in actuality that was because the asteroid itself has gravimetric and magnetic disturbances that would wreak havoc on the ship, a bit strange for such a mighty moon, planetary and stellar-busting vessel, wouldn't you say?
PICARD: Mister Worf, where are the Romulans?
WORF: They are out of sensor range on the far side of the system.
PICARD: Take us to within fifteen kilometres of the asteroid and hold that position.
WORF: Aye, sir.
PICARD: Mister Data, report.
DATA: For the past several hours, I have been scanning the area where we detected the resonance signature of the Pegasus. From the strength and polarity of the signature, it would appear that most of the warp core is still intact.
PRESSMAN: If we're lucky, the entire engineering section could be down there.
RIKER: But how do we get to it? I wouldn't want to try to transport through that much solid rock.
PICARD: Agreed. What about a shuttle? We could send it down through one of these fissures.
DATA: I would recommend against it, sir. There may be gravimetric or magnetic fluctuations inside the asteroid which would overpower the engines of a shuttlecraft.
PRESSMAN: Sounds like the best solution is to take the Enterprise in.
RIKER: Into the asteroid?
PRESSMAN: That's right. Put this fissure on the main viewer. This chasm is large enough for us to manoeuvre in. Besides, if we ever hope to salvage the Pegasus, we're going to need a starship to do it.
PICARD: Mister Data?
DATA: It is theoretically possible, sir, but I am unaware of any prior situations where a starship was taken so deeply inside a planetary body. There may be unforeseen difficulties.
PICARD: Admiral, I don't think we can risk
PRESSMAN: I've made my decision. Prepare to take the Enterprise in, Captain. That's an order.
PICARD: Mister Data, will you please note in the ship's log that this action is being taken over my explicit objections.
DATA: It is so noted, sir.
Also that the ship itself was in a powered down state, and not emitting any energy or radio signatures, so that would be another reason. But there you go. It would take most of their 250 torpedoes to blow away this asteroid. Confirmed by Riker himself. And these were not especially huge "moons" either, like Idazmi claims. These were, if anything, 100 kilometers in size if you'd wanted to be generous and highball it to absolute maximum. But remember the Enterprise is 700 meters in length, so there is a limit to this.
6. The Enterprise stopping the soliton wave from the TNG episode "New Ground," which would have destroyed "most of the planet" it was aimed at is a planet level feat according to Idazmi.
RIKER: Riker to Engineering. What's your estimate on the engines, Geordi?
LAFORGE [OC]: I need another hour, Commander. I still have to replace three power couplings.
RIKER: Understood.
DATA: Sir, sensors are coming back online.
RIKER: Good. Begin a sensor sweep for the soliton wave.
DATA: Aye, sir. The wave is continuing on course for the Lemma Two colony. It is bearing zero two zero, mark three two nine.
RIKER: Open a channel back here to Doctor Ja'Dar.
DATA: Sir, the wave has increased in velocity to warp four point one.
RIKER: Doctor, we've located the soliton wave. It's still on a course for Lemma Two. However its velocity has increased to warp four point one.
JA'DAR [on monitor]: Have you checked the frequency resonance of the subspace
DATA: Sir, the energy level of the wave has increased by a factor of twelve. At this rate, it will have increased by a factor of two hundred by the time it reaches Lemma Two.
RIKER: Will they still be able to dissipate the wave?
JA'DAR [on monitor]: Commander, at that energy level, the wave will not only destroy the colony, it'll take most of the planet with it.
We never see this planet, what size it is, if it's Class M, Class Y, Class L, or if the colony is just a small dome on a planet with artificial gravity rather than real gravity from the planet surface, so it's hard to calc something that has no defined numbers. And how much is "most of the planet" as well? Regardless, this fits in with what I was talking about regarding Trek weapons' DC being in the high continental ranges, because that would take out "most of the planet" with it to fit into this scenario, and it's consistent with the fleet bombardment from DS9, which is my next point.
7. The Romulan/Cardassian fleet from the "Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast" DS9 two-parter bombarded a planet and could burn off the crust in one hour, and strip it down to its core within five hours, and Idazmi claimed they were holding back power.
First off, here's the actual images of the bombardment.
And here's some transcripts.
LOVOK: We know that the Founders' planet lies at approximately these coordinates within the Omarion nebula. As you can see, there are no Jem'Hadar bases nearby. This means that even if the Founders did send out a distress call, it would take at least seven hours for any help to arrive.
TAIN: Our plan is to wait until we've entered orbit of the Founders' planet, then decloak and begin massive bombardment.
LOVOK: Computer analysis indicates that the planet's crust will be destroyed within one hour, and the mantle within five.
GARAK: That should more than take care of the Founders.
TAIN: Yes, it should. Unless they have some planetary defences we don't know about. There is one person here who might answer that question. Mister Odo.
Holding back power like he claims when there might be defenses they don't know about is tactically stupid.
PILOT: We are within disruptor range.
LOVOK: Scan the planet for life-signs.
PILOT: Sensors show multiple lifeforms on the surface. They appear to be in a liquid state.
GARAK: The Founders.
TAIN: Signal the fleet to charge weapons and lock onto their targets. We will open fire the moment we drop our cloaks.
PILOT: All ships report ready. All weapons charged.
TAIN: So much for the Dominion. Open fire.
PILOT: The first barrage is complete.
TAIN: Effect?
PILOT: Thirty percent of the planetary crust destroyed on opening volley. No change in lifeform readings.
TAIN: What? That's impossible. Some of them had to be killed.
PILOT: Our sensor readings have been confirmed by three other warbirds. There has been no change in the number of life-signs on the surface.
GARAK: They're using an automated transponder to send back false sensor readings. The planet's deserted.
TAIN: Colonel, signal the fleet to
PILOT: Colonel, there are ships coming out of the nebula.
LOVOK: What type of ships?
PILOT: Jem'Hadar fighters.
TAIN: How many? I asked you a question.
PILOT: One hundred fifty.
TAIN: Tactical display on screen.
GARAK: It's a trap. They've been waiting for us all along.
The point here is that they entered the wormhole, headed to the Founders' planet under cloak, and had that as their ace in the hole. They were very confident they wouldn't be detected, and that the Dominion didn't know they were coming. Here, here's the transcript.
(A Tal Shiar officer enters.)
TAIN: Ah. Colonel Lovok. Allow me to introduce my associate, Elim Garak.
LOVOK: And what is his role to be in this operation?
TAIN: He will do whatever I require of him. Elim is a cherished colleague of long standing.
LOVOK: You will not enter the bridge or any other secured space aboard this ship unescorted. If you do so, you will be killed.
GARAK: Direct, isn't he?
TAIN: I'm afraid the Colonel believes in wasting little time with pleasantries or idle conversation.
LOVOK: The fleet has recloaked and is about to set course for the Founders' homeworld at warp six.
GARAK: Warp six? That's a bit slow, isn't it? Something wrong with your engines?
LOVOK: If we travel any faster, our warp signatures may be detected by the Jem'Hadar, even through the cloaking devices.
GARAK: Very clever.
LOVOK: The changeling is in quarters on C deck. There are forcefields in place to prevent his escape.
TAIN: Good. Which brings us to your first assignment, Garak. I want you to explain to Odo that it would be in everyone's best interest, especially his, if he were to provide us with all the information he has on his people.
GARAK: That may prove difficult. He can be quite stubborn.
TAIN: Then you'll have to find a way of convincing him.
And here's a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du4k-Gl9aBY
Yet with Idazmi's logic, the Enterprise-D could destroy this whole fleet all on its own, and he told me so, that all it would take is one precise hit. Puh-lease.
And finally, here's my last point.
8. The Enterprise fighting the Husnock ship from the TNG episode "The Survivors" means it's a planet level feat because the Husnock ship could "pulverize a planet."
RIKER: Data, give us a visual. Magnification factor fifty.
(a dagger shaped warship comes into view)
WESLEY: Look at the size of that!
(Picard enters)
PICARD: Now where did that come from?
RIKER: Apparently it was riding a Lagrange point, hiding behind Rana Four's furthest moon.
DATA: Our vehicle classification index can put no identity to it. Its design is completely foreign.
RIKER: But that's our boy. Approximately five times our mass and carrying enough armament to pulverize a planet.
PICARD: Lieutenant?
WORF: I, er, cannot explain this, Captain.
RIKER: It's heading for the planet.
PICARD: Hailing frequencies.
WORF: Open.
PICARD: Mister Data, ask them to identify themselves and match our orbit.
DATA: They have received the message, Captain, but are ignoring it.
Though in this context, "pulverize a planet" clearly means the same as it did in "A Taste of Armageddon," which is to raze the surface until nothing is left, as we see.
A fun little fact is also from that episode, "400 gigawatts of particle energy" seemed as if it would give the Enterprise a hard time.
RIKER: Our friend is back.
PICARD: I'm not surprised. Mister Worf, open a hailing frequency. Warn the vessel to stay clear of the planet.
WORF: Aye, sir, but they are already within firing range.
(Three massive blasts of energy hit the Enterprise)
WORF: Shields are down. Captain, they hit us with four hundred gigawatts of particle energy.
PICARD: Damage?
WORF: Superficial, but I'm having trouble reassembling the shields. (another hit) Shields down. There is thermal damage to the hull.
DATA: The warship is capable of striking us with far more powerful bursts.
WESLEY: They're manoeuvring to come between the Enterprise and Rana Four.
Finally, the most important fact of all is this... that the ship itself was an illusion created by Kevin!
KEVIN: Very well. For what it's worth. I am a Douwd. An immortal being of disguises and false surroundings. I have lived in this galaxy for many thousands of years although until today, no one has known my true identity. Once, while traveling in human form, I chanced to fall in love with an Earth woman. I put aside my powers and became her husband. Our life was happy and rich. Eventually we came to this planet to live our final years. Now she is dead. She never knew what I really was.
PICARD: Your colony was attacked by a warship.
KEVIN: Belonging to the Husnock, a species of hideous intelligence who knew only aggression and destruction. I could have destroyed them with a mere thought, but I did not do so.
CRUSHER: You had the power to stop them but you didn't?
KEVIN: I refused to for the same reason I refused to stop the Enterprise. I will not kill.
PICARD: So you let the colonists fight a hopeless battle.
KEVIN: I tried to fool the Husnock as I tried to fool you. It only made them angrier. More cruel.
PICARD: And then what you most feared, happened. Rishon went to fight with the colonists, and died with them.
KEVIN: How I wish I could have died with her.
PICARD: But you couldn't. You were left alone.
KEVIN: Yes. I saw her broken body. I went insane. My hatred exploded, and in an instant of grief I destroyed the Husnock.
So there you have it. My complete debunking of all of Idazmi's and others' points. This needs to stop. The Trek highballing. Because at this point, you might as well say they could curbstomp series like Babylon 5, Star Wars, Halo, StarCraft, Warhammer 40,000 and potentially many more. Don't wank Trek. I love Trek. But to act as if it could take on all these other series is ludicrous.
KIRK: Report, Mister Chekov.
CHEKOV: Results positive, Captain. The creature has left the ship at high warp speed and is already nearly out of scanner range. The way that thing can move, Captain, I wouldn't believe it.
KIRK: Direction, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: It was bearing one two seven mark nine, but I've lost it now.
KIRK: (into intercom) Mister Scott, I'll need all the speed you can deliver. Keep at it until we begin to shake apart. Kirk out. I believe I know where it's going.
SPOCK: It has changed course before to mislead us, Captain. Logic would dictate that
KIRK: No, I'm playing intuition. Mister Chekov, compute a course for Tychos star system.
CHEKOV: Computed and on the board.
KIRK: Ahead full.
CHEKOV: Ahead full, sir.
KIRK: Lieutenant Uhura, contact Starfleet and the USS Yorktown.
UHURA: Frequency open and clear, sir.
KIRK: Inform them that we are pursuing the creature to planet four of that system. That's the location of its attack on the USS Farragut eleven years ago.
SPOCK: I do not understand, Captain.
KIRK: In Garrovick's quarters, I said the scent of the creature was somehow different. Something in my mind said home.
SPOCK: And you know where home is, Captain?
KIRK: Yes, I think I do. I don't know how I know, but home is where it fought a starship once before. Ito Uhura) Inform them of our tactical situation and inform them I'm committing this vessel to the destruction of the creature. We will rendezvous. Round-trip time, Mister Chekov.
CHEKOV: One point seven days, sir.
KIRK: We will rendezvous with the USS Yorktown in forty eight hours.
(later)
MCCOY: I assume that you now believe we should pursue the creature and destroy it.
SPOCK: Precisely.
KIRK: You don't agree with Mister Spock?
MCCOY: It's the time factor that bothers me. Those drugs are perishable.
SPOCK: Doctor, evidence indicates the creature is here to spawn. If so, it will reproduce by fission, not just into two parts, but thousands.
KIRK: Antimatter seems our only possibility.
SPOCK: An ounce should be sufficient. We can drain it from the ship's engines and transport it to the planet surface in a magnetic vacuum field.
KIRK: Contact medical stores. I want as much haemoplasm as they can spare in the transporter room in fifteen minutes.
GARROVICK: Yes, sir.
MCCOY: I presume you intend to use that haemoplasm to attract the creature?
KIRK: We must get it to the antimatter. It seems attracted to red blood cells. What better bait could we have?
SPOCK: There is still one problem, Captain.
KIRK: The blast, yes.
SPOCK: Exactly. A matter-antimatter blast will rip away half the planet's atmosphere. If our vessel is in orbit and encounters those shock waves
KIRK: A chance we'll have to take, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Also, we cannot be certain the transporter will operate under those conditions. If a man is beaming up when that hits, we may lose him.
KIRK: That's exactly why I've decided to set the trap myself.
SPOCK: Captain, there is so little hemoglobin in my green blood, the creature could not harm me extensively. It therefore seems logical for me to be the one
KIRK: Negative, Mister Spock. In case this plan fails, I'll need you aboard the ship. In that event, we'll need another plan.
SPOCK: It will require two men to transport the antimatter unit.
GARROVICK: I'd like permission to go with you, sir.
KIRK: I had you in mind, Mister Garrovick.
I will admit to a bit of an error here, as I was recalling the episode from memory, and thought they got the bomb from the armory. They did not. They drained the antimatter from their engines, yet it's quite clear they could not withstand the full effects of the explosion because they had to pull away by a substantial distance in the actual episode, something Spock even comments on. Idazmi has posted a picture of the resulting "crack" in the planet.
So that left a continental or moon-sized crater, yet they obviously couldn't tank said hits. And it wasn't using their photon torpedoes or their phasers as I had said, but most likely siphoning the antimatter directly from their warp plasma reactor.
2. The threats to "destroy" Eminiar VII from the TOS episode "A Taste of Armageddon," which was clearly meant to communicate the razing of the surface of the planet, and not actually blowing up the planet with one hit or two hits as some people would have you think.
(Kirk enters, quietly, but Anan knows he is there without turning around.)
ANAN: Won't you join me in a drink, Captain? You'll find our trova most interesting.
KIRK: I didn't come to drink.
ANAN: I assume that is what you used to destroy disintegration chamber number twelve.
KIRK: A very efficient weapon. I'm not afraid of using it.
ANAN: My first impression was correct. You are a barbarian.
KIRK: I am?
ANAN: Don't sound so incredulous, Captain. Of course you are. We all are. A killer first, a builder second. A hunter, a warrior, and let's be honest, a murderer. That is our joint heritage, is it not?
KIRK: We're less cold-blooded about it than you are.
ANAN: What do you want, Captain?
KIRK: I want to contact my ship. Where are my communicators?
ANAN: In a safe place.
KIRK: You take a lot of chances, Councilman.
ANAN: You're worried about your ship, Captain. I'm trying to save a world.
KIRK: If I were you, I'd think about saving my life.
ANAN: Won't you have a drink, Captain?
(Kirk pours himself a slug of trova, and as he turns his back, Anan presses concealed buttons.)
ANAN: And then we can discuss our differences.
KIRK: I'm not interested in discussing our differences. You don't seem to realise the risk you're taking. We don't make war with computers and herd the casualties into suicide stations. We make the real thing, Councilman. I could destroy this planet.
ANAN: Why do you think I don't let you talk to your ship ?
KIRK: I don't need the ship for that.
ANAN: You mean, all by yourself with a disruptor, you can destroy this planet?
KIRK: That's exactly what I mean.
ANAN: I had no idea you were so formidable.
KIRK: You seem to think I'm joking. Where are the communicators?
ANAN: If I told you, Captain, would you walk right out and get them?
KIRK: Something like that.
ANAN: Very well, Captain. They're in the War Room. Go left down the corridor, left again. They are unguarded.
Wow. For people who had boasted of the "numerous" planetary level statements in "A Taste of Armageddon," they seem to forget that it was limited to merely three - this here, where Kirk was clearly bluffing to stall for time, given that both men were playing each other (unless somebody seriously thinks Kirk could destroy a planet with a disruptor), and the second and third which I will show you right now.
ANAN: Unless you immediately start transportation of all personnel aboard your ship to the surface, the hostages will be killed. You have thirty minutes. I mean it, Captain.
KIRK: All that it means is that I won't be around for the destruction. You heard me give General Order Twenty Four. That means in two hours the Enterprise will destroy Eminiar Seven.
ANAN: Planetary defence System, open fire on the Enterprise!
SECURITY [OC]: I'm sorry, Councilman. The target has moved out of range.
ANAN: You wouldn't do this. Hundreds of millions of people.
KIRK: I didn't start it, Councilman, but I'm liable to finish it.
Kirk says this, buuuuuuuut... as Scotty confirms a few scenes later with more detail...
[Bridge]
SCOTT: Open a channel, Lieutenant. This is the commander of the USS Enterprise.
[Council Room]
SCOTT [OC]: All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In one hour and forty five minutes
[Bridge]
SCOTT: The entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed.
[Council Room]
SCOTT: You have that long to surrender your hostages.
Note the phrasing. The "entire inhabited surface." That's too detailed to imply they're going to destroy mountains, to render the planet itself sterile or something else, or just blow it away, erase it from existence like blasting it with a Kamehameha point-blank. They were specifically targeting military bases, automated facilities, and cities to take out most habitable population centers and areas of defense. In other words, places with lots of people or locations that could offer heavy resistance.
3. Battling the Doomsday Machine, from the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine," before anyone can bring up how the Enterprise went toe-to-toe with a planet eater.
KIRK: Matt, where's your crew?
DECKER: On the third planet.
KIRK: There is no third planet.
DECKER: Don't you think I know that? There was, but not anymore. They called me. They begged me for help, four hundred of them. I couldn't. I couldn't. (breaks down in tears)
SCOTT: Captain, Washburn has our report.
KIRK: Go.
WASHBURN: We made a complete check on structural and control damage, sir. As far as we can tell, something crashed through the deflectors and knocked out the generators. Somehow the antimatter in the warp drive pods has been deactivated.
KIRK: Deactivated? Scotty, could some kind of general energy dampening field do that, and would the same type of thing account for the heavy subspace interference?
SCOTT: Aye, that all adds up. But what sort of a thing could do all that?
DECKER: If you'd seen it, you'd know. The whole thing's a weapon. It must be.
KIRK: What does it look like?
DECKER: Well, it's miles long, with a maw that could swallow a dozen starships. It destroys planets, chops them into rubble.
KIRK: What is it, an alien ship? Or is it alive, or is it
DECKER: Both or neither. I don't know.
KIRK: Matt, your log stated that the fourth planet was breaking up. You went in to investigate.
DECKER: We saw this thing hovering over the planet, slicing out chunks of it with a force beam.
KIRK: Did you run a scanner check on it? What kind of a beam?
DECKER: Pure antiproton. Absolutely pure.
KIRK: (answers communicator) Kirk here.
SPOCK [OC]: Spock here, Captain.
Now, no timeframes are given, but note how he said the Doomsday Machine was taking "chunks" out of the planet. How much is "chunks?" We don't see it eat up planets, so to say how much is purely theoretical. Also note that the Enterprise repeatedly lost to this machine. Taking it on was suicide until they could get inside its interior hole, where it was vulnerable, and release a large antimatter explosion to shut it down. Even then it didn't destroy it. This thing was clearly superior to the Enterprise and I'd argue anything found a century later. You could even make the case the Doomsday Machine was scaling down the intensity of its beam weapons to conserve power for when it would come across planets in order to maximize fuel efficiency in order to consume them for energy. Headcanon, but feel free to counter this point if you want.
4. The Enterprise blowing up the moon falling into orbit of Bre'el IV, from the TNG episode "Deja Q," which Idazmi says constitutes a moon-level feat.
First off, the Enterprise-D is 700 meters. The moon when scaled next to it is clearly visible in all frames. It's obviously not a real moon. It's a moon around the size of Phobos, which is 27 kilometers. Here, let me show you.
And here's the actual transcript.
DATA: The satellite's trajectory is continuing to deteriorate, Captain. This orbit will put it within five hundred kilometres of the planet surface.
GARIN [on viewscreen]: We're predicting the atmospheric drag will bring it down on the next orbit.
SCIENTIST [on viewscreen]: Have you been able to find any explanation for this?
DATA: No, Doctor. It is a most unusual phenomenon.
PICARD: Won't the moon disintegrate prior to impact?
SCIENTIST [on viewscreen]: No, it has a ferrous crystalline structure and it will be able to withstand tidal forces, Captain
RIKER: Could we blow it into pieces?
DATA: The total mass of the moon would remain the same, Commander, and the impact of thousands of fragments would spread destruction over an even wider area.
PICARD: How long before impact?
DATA: Twenty nine hours, sir. Projecting it somewhere on the western continent. That would destroy an area eight hundred kilometres in radius.
SCIENTIST [on viewscreen]: That damage would be insignificant, Captain, compared to the seismic repercussions massive landquakes, and tsunami.
GARIN [on viewscreen]: The force would raise a cloud of dust around the planet, leading to a significant temperature reduction. We could be looking at our own ice age.
PICARD: Mister La Forge, is there any way that the Enterprise could coax that satellite
From the TNG episode "Conundrum."
(everyone is working at the rear stations except Worf, who is in the Captain's chair)
MACDUFF: We've heard from all decks. There are over a thousand people on board. Everyone's had their memories affected in the same way we have.
WORF: I have completed a survey of our tactical systems. We are equipped with ten phaser banks, two hundred and fifty photon torpedoes, and a high capacity shield grid.
MACDUFF: We're a battleship.
They have a total of 250 torpedoes, which leads into my next point.
5. The Enterprise blowing up the asteroid from "The Pegasus" in one hit, which Idazmi seems to believe, even though claims from Riker say otherwise.
The asteroid in question looks to be about the size of the aforementioned small moon, maybe a bit bigger.
Here's the transcript.
RIKER: Geordi's found something.
LAFORGE: There's a subspace resonance signature coming from that asteroid, sir. It could be the warp core of the Pegasus.
PRESSMAN: I think he's right. I recognise some of the variance patterns.
PICARD: Put the asteroid on the main viewscreen.
DATA: I have confirmed Geordi's readings. The resonance signature is originating from somewhere beneath the asteroid's surface.
PRESSMAN: Beneath the surface? How's that possible?
DATA: This asteroid contains several deep chasms large enough for a starship to enter. It is possible the Pegasus drifted into the asteroid's gravitational field and was pulled down into one of the fissures.
WORF: Sir, the Romulan warbird has altered course once again. They are heading toward our position.
RIKER: They probably want to see what we're so interested in over here.
PICARD: Mister Data, how long will it take to determine the exact location of the Pegasus?
DATA: At least another six hours, sir.
PRESSMAN: That's too long. If the Romulans start searching the asteroid, they could find the ship before we do.
RIKER: I recommend we destroy the asteroid. It would take most of our photon torpedoes, but it would preclude any possibility of the Pegasus falling into Romulan hands.
PRESSMAN: Our top priority is to salvage the ship, Commander. I'll consider destroying it only as a last resort.
RIKER: Yes, sir.
PRESSMAN: Captain, could you give me a third alternative?
Idazmi or someone else suggested it would take a while to search through the asteroid because it was so yuuuuuuge, but in actuality that was because the asteroid itself has gravimetric and magnetic disturbances that would wreak havoc on the ship, a bit strange for such a mighty moon, planetary and stellar-busting vessel, wouldn't you say?
PICARD: Mister Worf, where are the Romulans?
WORF: They are out of sensor range on the far side of the system.
PICARD: Take us to within fifteen kilometres of the asteroid and hold that position.
WORF: Aye, sir.
PICARD: Mister Data, report.
DATA: For the past several hours, I have been scanning the area where we detected the resonance signature of the Pegasus. From the strength and polarity of the signature, it would appear that most of the warp core is still intact.
PRESSMAN: If we're lucky, the entire engineering section could be down there.
RIKER: But how do we get to it? I wouldn't want to try to transport through that much solid rock.
PICARD: Agreed. What about a shuttle? We could send it down through one of these fissures.
DATA: I would recommend against it, sir. There may be gravimetric or magnetic fluctuations inside the asteroid which would overpower the engines of a shuttlecraft.
PRESSMAN: Sounds like the best solution is to take the Enterprise in.
RIKER: Into the asteroid?
PRESSMAN: That's right. Put this fissure on the main viewer. This chasm is large enough for us to manoeuvre in. Besides, if we ever hope to salvage the Pegasus, we're going to need a starship to do it.
PICARD: Mister Data?
DATA: It is theoretically possible, sir, but I am unaware of any prior situations where a starship was taken so deeply inside a planetary body. There may be unforeseen difficulties.
PICARD: Admiral, I don't think we can risk
PRESSMAN: I've made my decision. Prepare to take the Enterprise in, Captain. That's an order.
PICARD: Mister Data, will you please note in the ship's log that this action is being taken over my explicit objections.
DATA: It is so noted, sir.
Also that the ship itself was in a powered down state, and not emitting any energy or radio signatures, so that would be another reason. But there you go. It would take most of their 250 torpedoes to blow away this asteroid. Confirmed by Riker himself. And these were not especially huge "moons" either, like Idazmi claims. These were, if anything, 100 kilometers in size if you'd wanted to be generous and highball it to absolute maximum. But remember the Enterprise is 700 meters in length, so there is a limit to this.
6. The Enterprise stopping the soliton wave from the TNG episode "New Ground," which would have destroyed "most of the planet" it was aimed at is a planet level feat according to Idazmi.
RIKER: Riker to Engineering. What's your estimate on the engines, Geordi?
LAFORGE [OC]: I need another hour, Commander. I still have to replace three power couplings.
RIKER: Understood.
DATA: Sir, sensors are coming back online.
RIKER: Good. Begin a sensor sweep for the soliton wave.
DATA: Aye, sir. The wave is continuing on course for the Lemma Two colony. It is bearing zero two zero, mark three two nine.
RIKER: Open a channel back here to Doctor Ja'Dar.
DATA: Sir, the wave has increased in velocity to warp four point one.
RIKER: Doctor, we've located the soliton wave. It's still on a course for Lemma Two. However its velocity has increased to warp four point one.
JA'DAR [on monitor]: Have you checked the frequency resonance of the subspace
DATA: Sir, the energy level of the wave has increased by a factor of twelve. At this rate, it will have increased by a factor of two hundred by the time it reaches Lemma Two.
RIKER: Will they still be able to dissipate the wave?
JA'DAR [on monitor]: Commander, at that energy level, the wave will not only destroy the colony, it'll take most of the planet with it.
We never see this planet, what size it is, if it's Class M, Class Y, Class L, or if the colony is just a small dome on a planet with artificial gravity rather than real gravity from the planet surface, so it's hard to calc something that has no defined numbers. And how much is "most of the planet" as well? Regardless, this fits in with what I was talking about regarding Trek weapons' DC being in the high continental ranges, because that would take out "most of the planet" with it to fit into this scenario, and it's consistent with the fleet bombardment from DS9, which is my next point.
7. The Romulan/Cardassian fleet from the "Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast" DS9 two-parter bombarded a planet and could burn off the crust in one hour, and strip it down to its core within five hours, and Idazmi claimed they were holding back power.
First off, here's the actual images of the bombardment.
And here's some transcripts.
LOVOK: We know that the Founders' planet lies at approximately these coordinates within the Omarion nebula. As you can see, there are no Jem'Hadar bases nearby. This means that even if the Founders did send out a distress call, it would take at least seven hours for any help to arrive.
TAIN: Our plan is to wait until we've entered orbit of the Founders' planet, then decloak and begin massive bombardment.
LOVOK: Computer analysis indicates that the planet's crust will be destroyed within one hour, and the mantle within five.
GARAK: That should more than take care of the Founders.
TAIN: Yes, it should. Unless they have some planetary defences we don't know about. There is one person here who might answer that question. Mister Odo.
Holding back power like he claims when there might be defenses they don't know about is tactically stupid.
PILOT: We are within disruptor range.
LOVOK: Scan the planet for life-signs.
PILOT: Sensors show multiple lifeforms on the surface. They appear to be in a liquid state.
GARAK: The Founders.
TAIN: Signal the fleet to charge weapons and lock onto their targets. We will open fire the moment we drop our cloaks.
PILOT: All ships report ready. All weapons charged.
TAIN: So much for the Dominion. Open fire.
PILOT: The first barrage is complete.
TAIN: Effect?
PILOT: Thirty percent of the planetary crust destroyed on opening volley. No change in lifeform readings.
TAIN: What? That's impossible. Some of them had to be killed.
PILOT: Our sensor readings have been confirmed by three other warbirds. There has been no change in the number of life-signs on the surface.
GARAK: They're using an automated transponder to send back false sensor readings. The planet's deserted.
TAIN: Colonel, signal the fleet to
PILOT: Colonel, there are ships coming out of the nebula.
LOVOK: What type of ships?
PILOT: Jem'Hadar fighters.
TAIN: How many? I asked you a question.
PILOT: One hundred fifty.
TAIN: Tactical display on screen.
GARAK: It's a trap. They've been waiting for us all along.
The point here is that they entered the wormhole, headed to the Founders' planet under cloak, and had that as their ace in the hole. They were very confident they wouldn't be detected, and that the Dominion didn't know they were coming. Here, here's the transcript.
(A Tal Shiar officer enters.)
TAIN: Ah. Colonel Lovok. Allow me to introduce my associate, Elim Garak.
LOVOK: And what is his role to be in this operation?
TAIN: He will do whatever I require of him. Elim is a cherished colleague of long standing.
LOVOK: You will not enter the bridge or any other secured space aboard this ship unescorted. If you do so, you will be killed.
GARAK: Direct, isn't he?
TAIN: I'm afraid the Colonel believes in wasting little time with pleasantries or idle conversation.
LOVOK: The fleet has recloaked and is about to set course for the Founders' homeworld at warp six.
GARAK: Warp six? That's a bit slow, isn't it? Something wrong with your engines?
LOVOK: If we travel any faster, our warp signatures may be detected by the Jem'Hadar, even through the cloaking devices.
GARAK: Very clever.
LOVOK: The changeling is in quarters on C deck. There are forcefields in place to prevent his escape.
TAIN: Good. Which brings us to your first assignment, Garak. I want you to explain to Odo that it would be in everyone's best interest, especially his, if he were to provide us with all the information he has on his people.
GARAK: That may prove difficult. He can be quite stubborn.
TAIN: Then you'll have to find a way of convincing him.
And here's a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du4k-Gl9aBY
Yet with Idazmi's logic, the Enterprise-D could destroy this whole fleet all on its own, and he told me so, that all it would take is one precise hit. Puh-lease.
And finally, here's my last point.
8. The Enterprise fighting the Husnock ship from the TNG episode "The Survivors" means it's a planet level feat because the Husnock ship could "pulverize a planet."
RIKER: Data, give us a visual. Magnification factor fifty.
(a dagger shaped warship comes into view)
WESLEY: Look at the size of that!
(Picard enters)
PICARD: Now where did that come from?
RIKER: Apparently it was riding a Lagrange point, hiding behind Rana Four's furthest moon.
DATA: Our vehicle classification index can put no identity to it. Its design is completely foreign.
RIKER: But that's our boy. Approximately five times our mass and carrying enough armament to pulverize a planet.
PICARD: Lieutenant?
WORF: I, er, cannot explain this, Captain.
RIKER: It's heading for the planet.
PICARD: Hailing frequencies.
WORF: Open.
PICARD: Mister Data, ask them to identify themselves and match our orbit.
DATA: They have received the message, Captain, but are ignoring it.
Though in this context, "pulverize a planet" clearly means the same as it did in "A Taste of Armageddon," which is to raze the surface until nothing is left, as we see.
A fun little fact is also from that episode, "400 gigawatts of particle energy" seemed as if it would give the Enterprise a hard time.
RIKER: Our friend is back.
PICARD: I'm not surprised. Mister Worf, open a hailing frequency. Warn the vessel to stay clear of the planet.
WORF: Aye, sir, but they are already within firing range.
(Three massive blasts of energy hit the Enterprise)
WORF: Shields are down. Captain, they hit us with four hundred gigawatts of particle energy.
PICARD: Damage?
WORF: Superficial, but I'm having trouble reassembling the shields. (another hit) Shields down. There is thermal damage to the hull.
DATA: The warship is capable of striking us with far more powerful bursts.
WESLEY: They're manoeuvring to come between the Enterprise and Rana Four.
Finally, the most important fact of all is this... that the ship itself was an illusion created by Kevin!
KEVIN: Very well. For what it's worth. I am a Douwd. An immortal being of disguises and false surroundings. I have lived in this galaxy for many thousands of years although until today, no one has known my true identity. Once, while traveling in human form, I chanced to fall in love with an Earth woman. I put aside my powers and became her husband. Our life was happy and rich. Eventually we came to this planet to live our final years. Now she is dead. She never knew what I really was.
PICARD: Your colony was attacked by a warship.
KEVIN: Belonging to the Husnock, a species of hideous intelligence who knew only aggression and destruction. I could have destroyed them with a mere thought, but I did not do so.
CRUSHER: You had the power to stop them but you didn't?
KEVIN: I refused to for the same reason I refused to stop the Enterprise. I will not kill.
PICARD: So you let the colonists fight a hopeless battle.
KEVIN: I tried to fool the Husnock as I tried to fool you. It only made them angrier. More cruel.
PICARD: And then what you most feared, happened. Rishon went to fight with the colonists, and died with them.
KEVIN: How I wish I could have died with her.
PICARD: But you couldn't. You were left alone.
KEVIN: Yes. I saw her broken body. I went insane. My hatred exploded, and in an instant of grief I destroyed the Husnock.
So there you have it. My complete debunking of all of Idazmi's and others' points. This needs to stop. The Trek highballing. Because at this point, you might as well say they could curbstomp series like Babylon 5, Star Wars, Halo, StarCraft, Warhammer 40,000 and potentially many more. Don't wank Trek. I love Trek. But to act as if it could take on all these other series is ludicrous.
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Good lord, chill out.
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wasnt it all rejected, but omg y u gotta necrobump an old ass thread for all dat again lol
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