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New Ability: Marksmanship

Okay. I will switch back my latest edit then. 🙏
 
Well, doesn't it require extraordinary scope equipment to artificially enhance eyesight and take a very prolonged period of time for fine-tuning?
 
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or some of the the scenes from the Wanted movie (although I don't have an specific clip in mind as there are various scenes).
The Final Scene where he shoots from his apartment could work, but its very long. Also the curve shots when the assassins were practicing in the shooting range
 
The Final Scene where he shoots from his apartment could work, but its very long. Also the curve shots when the assassins were practicing in the shooting range
I thought in that one but as you said is very long, maybe if speed of the scene is increase 1.75x or so, in general there are many good scenes that can work as the movie focus completely in people with crazy accuracy.
 
I believe Slyfox qualifies for this, no?

He did stuff like this, this, and was stated to be able to shoot a sparrow from 30 meters away as easily as shooting an elephant.

If so, I advocate him to be added to the marksmanship page because I want him to be more popular.
 
There's precedent for listing peak human feats as a reference in our power pages, I think it's a good addition
Well, it would likely make the ability far too easy for many thousands of characters to qualify for, rather than keep it restricted to ones defined by their distinctive clearly superhuman aiming abilities, especially as I think that real world feats require considerable time and very advanced equipment.
 
Well, it would likely make the ability far too easy for many thousands of characters to qualify for, rather than keep it restricted to ones defined by their distinctive clearly superhuman aiming abilities, especially as I think that real world feats require considerable time and very advanced equipment.
I mean they set a baseline, it's not like our users are good at figuring out what exactly the line for a feat to be superhuman is, if there aren't any examples.
 
I thought in that one but as you said is very long, maybe if speed of the scene is increase 1.75x or so, in general there are many good scenes that can work as the movie focus completely in people with crazy accuracy.
I mean we can go with shorter clips too like this one which is approx 5s or any other scene from that video.
There are these longer scenes tho which are around 22s and 28s respectively and even in 1.75x speed it would be around 13s and 16s.


I mean they set a baseline, it's not like our users are good at figuring out what exactly the line for a feat to be superhuman is, if there aren't any examples.
I was wondering if we should use an energy projection user as an example in the page, just so we could clarify the weapon agnostic nature of this ability a bit more and better differentiate it from Weapon Mastery.
But I don't know of any such Energy projecting Marksmen myself.
 
@Antvasima I think what Armor posted is okay to be used as guidelines as to what we consider valid as marksmanship.

Yes, they were performed using the best equipment and maybe even the best weather conditions, but we have characters that can perform the same or better without the best equipment and weather conditions, so they for sure qualify.
 
Is it just me or does the marksmanship page need a better example because Daredevil's feat sets the bar too high for qualifying as marksmanship. Not to mention that I think an animated example should be used that's more blatant and easier to understand. Like a GIF of a character tossing a projectile in a way that it passes through small gaps before reaching its target or intentionally ricocheting a bullet to hit someone or a specific target area.
I don't think we're making the basic requirement too strict. While we do need some bar that simply being able to throw projectiles isn't enough and they need at least some precision. There have been mistakes where simply swinging a giant sword wildly had weapon mastery, or throwing strong punches wildly gave martial arts. Which was too low and people need to have at least decent levels of any respective skill to get it. Not like they have to be Daredevil level; who is perhaps more skilled than the greatest IRL marksman.
 
I mean they set a baseline, it's not like our users are good at figuring out what exactly the line for a feat to be superhuman is, if there aren't any examples.
Well, we can probably add a few examples of real life peak human marksmanship ability in order to provide some guidance/measurement scale base, but to qualify for this ability I think that characters should be clearly beyond that level.
 
I put Daredevil as the example because I’ve read everything about him and it’s one of his main things.
Yeah, I think he misunderstood. Daredevil was just a simple/general example and not a baseline or anything.
 
Anything involving excelling at shooting competitions, long range sniper kills, accurately pin-pointing weaknesses to shoot at where normal people would simply fail, insane trick shots and the like (Like making bullets ricchochet with your shots to kill multiple targets at once cleanly) should be a good starting point.
 
Well, we can probably add a few examples of real life peak human marksmanship ability in order to provide some guidance/measurement scale base, but to qualify for this ability I think that characters should be clearly beyond that level.
Can we reach a compromise and make the examples as a baseline? Characters that can do the same thing as the examples or beyond, can qualify.
 
My apologies, but no. This should be a clearly superhuman ability, or there wouldn't be much point to it, as it would turn far too easy to achieve, and much more frequently misapplied by our members.
 
My apologies, but no. This should be a clearly superhuman ability, or there wouldn't be much point to it, as it would turn far too easy to achieve, and much more frequently misapplied by our members.
By that logic, stuff like Acrobatics and Social Influencing should just be removed. This is a pretty flimsy excuse to not let the above examples I mentioned allow someone to qualify for this ability.

Nope, sorry, can't agree with you on this one, and I ain't budging on that front.
 
The gap between "peak human" and "superhuman" is too nebulous to draw a line, I definitely disagree with this and think peak human should be the starting point. Clearer standards will make misapplying less likely, not more so.
 
The gap between "peak human" and "superhuman" is too nebulous to draw a line, I definitely disagree with this and think peak human should be the starting point. Clearer standards will make misapplying less likely, not more so.
100% agree with this.
 
Marksmanship refers to clearly superhuman skill and ability to shoot and hit targets with firearms or projectiles. It involves a combination of knowledge, technique, focus, and physical coordination. The term is often associated with firearms, such as rifles, pistols, and shotguns, but it can also apply to bows, crossbows or any other type of projectile.

Characters possessing an extraordinary level of accuracy often employ this particular technique as a means to surprise their enemies through the implementation of ricochet attacks, whereby projectiles rebound off surfaces, thus catching opponents off guard with unpredictable trajectories, and concurrently exploiting the vulnerability inherent in targeting weak points of the body, such as vital organs or susceptible joints.

Examples of Peak Human marksmanship include:
  • Only 21 confirmed sniper kills in history to have happened at a range of over 1250 meters, with the greatest being at 3540.
  • Simo Häyhä, known as possibly the deadliest sniper in history, killed over 500 enemy soldiers in less than one year of service, all of this without a scope.
  • Olympic shooters and archers are capable of reliably hitting tiny targets at long distances.
  • Bob Munden can draw a revolver and accurately tag multiple targets in one tenth of a second, as well as shoot coins out of the air.
  • Bill Hays can hit small targets blowing in the wind with a slingshot at almost 40 feet of distance.
  • David Adamovich can throw over 100 knives in one minute all with great accuracy.
  • The world record holder for axe throwing can hit a target at over 27 meters of distance.
While these instances are hailed as the epitome of marksmanship, for a character to attain this ability, they would require a level of precision surpassing even these feats. The examples provided serve merely as benchmarks to assist users in envisioning what to anticipate from a superhuman proficiency in marksmanship.
What about it? While we use the examples for a guideline, we still expect the ability to be superhuman.
 
I should note that long-range sniper kills these days are insanely hard to do without a secondary sniper-backup and satellite tracking, as well as tools to measure windage, elevation and whatnot.

So doing long-range sniping kills beyond the 1250 m range solo without taking into account any of those (Or doing all of that in your head) would be a good enough example of a superhuman sniping feat.

Another common superhuman sniping feat is taking shots on rapid moving targets like on cars or trains, which are next-to-impossible to do IRL.
 
The gap between "peak human" and "superhuman" is too nebulous to draw a line, I definitely disagree with this and think peak human should be the starting point. Clearer standards will make misapplying less likely, not more so.
Yeah, we might as well be nuking a lot of things that are just general skills and not "Superpowers" by that logic. Martial Arts, Weapon Mastery, Acrobats, Social Influencing, Vehicular Mastery. None of those are superpowers that require superhuman levels of skill to recieve.
 
This obsession with requiring every single ability to showcase superhuman levels of feats will be our undoing NGL.
 
Speaking of rules of thumb, would shooting an arrow into/through another arrow qualify?:


And what of crazy sh*t like this, which fiction apparently treats just shooting two or three arrows at once as marksmanship, never mind ten:
 
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Speaking of rules of thumb, would shooting an arrow into/through another arrow qualify?:


And what of crazy sh*t like this, which fiction apparently treats just shooting two or three arrows at once as marksmanship, never mind ten:

Don't see why they wouldn't.
 
What's the difference between Marksmanship and Weapon Mastery?

Also, does throwing things accurately count for Marksmanship?
 
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