Netflix Castlevania changes

[Stillwinston]

Following, wanna make sure its clear to make matches here so keeping an eye on it. Neutral for all this btw.

 

[Bobsican]

All of the stuff in the OP seems fine.

 

[Abstractions]

"Show me statements or proof that the whip only has Durability Negation and nop AP"

You are asking me to do the impossible, as I'm not saying it doesn't have AP, I'm telling you that its durability negation lets it punch higher than its AP.

"because raw Durability Negation isn't something that easy to have"

Not my argument, its durability negating by causing a reaction in the monsters and vampires by subjecting them to holy magic, literally every single fight we have Trevor's statement, backed up by a bunch of fights where it strikes a vampire or monster, the thing explodes to the whip, see the fight before they fought Dracula for reference.

"specially when we see super casual whip strikes working on humans too, on a much stronger degree than a normal one, it just don't implode them because they are not supernatural"

You shoot your own argument in the foot here by saying this.

Of course Trevor's strikes to humans hurt more because of how proficient he is with it, and by virtue of being stronger than a regular person, if whips had 8-C AP, Trevor would be gibbing people, which is completely nonsensical. You explaining why it doesn't happen because they aren't supernatural is agreeing with my argument.

"What we see is the Whip reacting to them and imploding them (Holy Manipulation based Explosion, since it is from inside it bypasses durability to na extent), and even when it didn't, it still hurts Alucard and Dracula who no sells 8-C attacks"

This is literally my argument, the sequence of events is this:

Vampire is struck, seemingly fine or not suffering for mortal harm - body starts bubbling and combusts in reaction to whip magic.

These sequence of events do not require the whip to be 8-C.

Literally the only justifiable reason it hurts them is because they are vampires, Dracula's justification for him not being killed by it was because he was no ordinary vampire, indicating that he's just stronger than the rest which we already know and thus can resist the instant kill.

Say, I'm struck with a stick that has a highly corrosive acid soaked on the tip, smacking me with that stick may hurt somewhat but I'm fine, the acid then starts melting away at my body and a get grievously harmed by it, does that suddenly make the stick 9-C for almost killing me in one strike? No, that's not how it works.

 

[Bobsican]

A summary of the latest discussion so far being brought up would be nice so I can give further input, I tried reading the latest replies and I feel somewhat confused as to what's being exactly discussed.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well people still divided XD

All of the stuff in the OP seems fine.

Thanks for coming Bob

So, while i agree with Alucard and AP stuff, saying that the Whips are only Durability Negation is wrong, I'll explain

- First, for now at least, the show doesn't give us any proof, statement or something like that to simply add Durability Negation to Trevor's whips, we have him saying that "the whip is consagrated to fight deons vampires", which doesn't mean Durability Negation, he's simply saying that the whip has powers against them

- Second, we see three beings resisting the effects of the Whip, Gaibon, Alucard and Dracula

Gaibon was not imploded by it and yet, died with a single strike, as I said, saying that this strike has durability Negation falls under my first argument, we simply don't have any proof of this

Alucard was alive after two strikes, Dracula was alive after being struck by the Morning Star, it didn't imploded him like it does against the other monsters, I showed this image to prove that it was a outside explosion that managed to bring him to his knees:


The whip reacts to monsters and implode them but here it wasn't the same case. Since it was a explosion coming from a moment when the Whip's Holy Properties were resisted (Which is the combust-implosion effect), it comes to AP, it scales to Drac since it still hurted him a lot, and he's 8-C

- Third, even when completely casual and against normal humans, the whip still acts far beyond the strenght of a normal whip, effortlessly mutilating those priests

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Durability Negation is not accepted unless specifically stated. As for humans not exploding upon being struck by an 8-C, Stands from JoJo are 8-C and yet the normal humans they strike are merely disfigured or damaged. Simply put, fiction ignores this law of physics.

 

[Abstractions]

Durability Negation is not accepted unless specifically stated. As for humans not exploding upon being struck by an 8-C, Stands from JoJo are 8-C and yet the normal humans they strike are merely disfigured or damaged. Simply put, fiction ignores this law of physics.

Good thing it's stated and demonstrated within the verse then?

 

[Bobsican]

TBH at most it would fall as a limited variant of Durability Negation, this appears to be like saying that because Charizard is weak to water and Blastoise fills it up with water and knocks Charizard out, Blastoise now gets Durability Negation out of the above.

Yeah, the whip is just abusing the weak point of the monsters, not actual Durability Negation, respectively.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Not my argument, its durability negating by causing a reaction in the monsters and vampires by subjecting them to holy magic, literally every single fight we have Trevor's statement, backed up by a bunch of fights where it strikes a vampire or monster, the thing explodes to the whip, see the fight before they fought Dracula for reference.

And yet, Gaibon is not exploded and still dies, because ? The Holy properties didn't happened with him

Of course Trevor's strikes to humans hurt more because of how proficient he is with it, and by virtue of being stronger than a regular person, if whips had 8-C AP, Trevor would be gibbing people, which is completely nonsensical. You explaining why it doesn't happen because they aren't supernatural is agreeing with my argument.

That was the Leather Whip, not the Morning Star, it doesn't scale to its feats so no 8-C for it

Trevor being stronger and thus hurting them seems fair, but as Knight said, fiction doesn't care about this, so I don't think it matters that much in the end

These sequence of events do not require the whip to be 8-C.

Indeed, it doesn't, but when a 8-C vampire outright resists the Holy Properties and still gets to his knees, the Whip needs raw power to do it

Literally the only justifiable reason it hurts them is because they are vampires, Dracula's justification for him not being killed by it was because he was no ordinary vampire, indicating that he's just stronger than the rest which we already know and thus can resist the instant kill.

Saying that "I'm no ordinary vampire" is proof for durability Negation is forcing things here, it only says that he's more durable, stronger, faster, stuff. Not being boiled and imploded by the Whip is resistance to Holy Manipulation, since it's what triggers the process, without it, the Whip has its AP to rely on, it happened to Gaibon and Alucard, the difference it that the Morning Star still explodes, while the Leather one don't

Say, I'm struck with a stick that has a highly corrosive acid soaked on the tip, smacking me with that stick may hurt somewhat but I'm fine, the acid then starts melting away at my body and a get grievously harmed by it, does that suddenly make the stick 9-C for almost killing me in one strike? No, that's not how it works.

I didn't understand this one, the whip usually reacts to monsters, implodinh them and killing them, then we have Drac who resisted this, since he didn't imploded and stuff, and yet got hurt by its raw power, this examole is just false equivalency

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Backreading a bit, I agree with Dante here

 

[Bobsican]

For now I'll just wait for how the Durability Negation discussion goes, both sides bring valid points overall, but I still think that it would fall as a limited form at most, however, the OP already seems to agree with that.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

It is limited dura neg since it makes an inner explosion, attacking internal organs and stuff is limited Durability Negation, like Dante's Sin Devil Trigger which makes demons explode from inside, this process is the Durability Negation part of the whip

What triggers it is Holy Manipulation, so resisting this = not getting imploded, which are the cases of Gaibon, Alucard and Dracula, they were attacked with the whip and didn't imploded, combust and stuff, and yet the whip still affected them, Gaibon was even one shoted. And we don't have proof in the series to say that the Whip bypasses Durability with any normal hit

Affecting them without the implosion is outside the Dura Neg properties of the whip, the difference between the cases is that the Morning Star still explodes, while the Leather Whip don't. Just look at Dracula's case, it was unlike any other in the series so far, people were getting imploded by the Morning Star but Dracula wasn't, he took a outside explosion, and this one doesn't rely on any Holy Hax because Dracula resists (The Holy Hax is what triggers the implosion that bypasses durability, which didn't happened in his case). It needs to be 8-C, because still hurted him to the point that he fell to his knees even after getting everything else resisted

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, I guess this Durability Negation is limited to Unholy beings or so.

Anyways, everything seems fine then.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yes, however resisting Holy Manipulation grants protection against the Durability Negation, which is featured by only imploding the target, not just any hit, but still doesn't save you from the Whip's AP, like Gaibon, Alucard (Against the Leather Whip) and Dracula (Against the Morning Star)

 

[Bobsican]

Yes, if that wasn't clear already, it's clearly "Durability Negation (Via Holy Manipulation, limited to unholy beings, (insert scan showcasing the ability))" or something like that.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I'll add something more detailed to his profile

Btw guys, Season 3 trailer is out and wooooo boi

 

[Abstractions]

Yes, however resisting Holy Manipulation grants protection against the Durability Negation, which is featured by only imploding the target, not just any hit, but still doesn't save you from the Whip's AP, like Gaibon, Alucard (Against the Leather Whip) and Dracula (Against the Morning Star)

Gaibon's head came off after the strike and the wound was sizzling, it's clear it was having a reaction, it did not resist the effect.

How many times do I have to say that just because Dracula did not die to the Morning Star having an effect on his body doesn't mean it all translates to its AP? He was having a clear reaction. Alucard's example is purely because he's a half-breed, and Alucard should hardly scale to Dracula to begin with by being stomped by him on two separate occasions.

"Indeed, it doesn't, but when a 8-C vampire outright resists the Holy Properties and still gets to his knees, the Whip needs raw power to do it"

Already explained why that isn't the case, Dracula did not completely resist the effects, making 8-C not necessary.

"Saying that "I'm no ordinary vampire" is proof for durability Negation is forcing things here, it only says that he's more durable, stronger, faster, stuff. Not being boiled and imploded by the Whip is resistance to Holy Manipulation, since it's what triggers the process, without it, the Whip has its AP to rely on, it happened to Gaibon and Alucard, the difference it that the Morning Star still explodes, while the Leather one don't"

What does that mean in context though? We know Dracula's stronger, so his statement on his ranking in the species doesn't make much sense, he's making a remark on the Morning Star's ability and how it won't kill him that easily because he's not ordinary.

Already explained Alucard and Gaibon.

 

[Abstractions]

Yes, if that wasn't clear already, it's clearly "Durability Negation (Via Holy Manipulation, limited to unholy beings, (insert scan showcasing the ability))" or something like that.

Then you are agreeing with me that 8-C doesn't make sense, as the explosions only happen when interacting with the supernatural, not anyone else.

 

[Bobsican]

Yes, I am.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Dracula's case was completely different from the rest

When they got haxed by the Whip's Holy Properties, they were victim of a Inner Explosion that starts with their body being boiled and then combust

Dracula's case was just an outside beastly explosion that didn't boiled and combust him, so what makes you think it is the same thing ? The Whip only dura negs via implosion which didn't happened, and hurting a 8-C that bad makes you a 8-C, it's scalling

What does that mean in context though? We know Dracula's stronger, so his statement on his ranking in the species doesn't make much sense, he's making a remark on the Morning Star's ability and how it won't kill him that easily because he's not ordinary.

That can mean much things, and it's not proof for nothing, he's not ordinary because he survived everything that the Morning Star had to offer, the end, doesnt help me and doesn't help you, and of course he said that after being attacked by the whip, why would he say this in other situation ?

Gaibon's head came off after the strike and the wound was sizzling, it's clear it was having a reaction, it did not resist the effect.

How many times do I have to say that just because Dracula did not die to the Morning Star having an effect on his body doesn't mean it all translates to its AP? He was having a clear reaction. Alucard's example is purely because he's a half-breed, and Alucard should hardly scale to Dracula to begin with by being stomped by him on two separate occasions.

Gaibon didn't imploded which is what negs durability in the first place, you're saying that the whip then has Durability Negation on every single hit, which we don't have any proofs. The whip reacting to it is one thing (Completely unrelated to Durability Negation), the whip Holy-Haxing-the-monster-into-a-Living-Mini-Nuke is other thing, which didn't happened there. To complement my argument, I'll just quote Knigh:

Durability Negation is not accepted unless specifically stated

Which it wasn't, the whip needs more statements to have durability Negation on every single hit and independant of the implosio

Alucard's example is purely because he's a half-breed, and Alucard should hardly scale to Dracula to begin with by being stomped by him on two separate occasions.

Any proof that Alucard's case was because he's a half breed ?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yes, if that wasn't clear already, it's clearly "Durability Negation (Via Holy Manipulation, limited to unholy beings, (insert scan showcasing the ability))" or something like that.

Yes, but the show makes clear that the whip can hurt them independant of the implosion which is what negs durability, so it needs 8-C for the Morning Star

It doesn't have durability negation on every single hit, we don't have any proof for that, it bypasses when it makes them implode only, if it hurted them outside the implosion, it's AP

 

[Abstractions]

"Dracula's case was just an outside beastly explosion, what makes you think it is the same thing ? The Whip only dura negs via implosion which didn't happened, and hurting a 8-C that bad makes you a 8-C, it's scalling"

You're referring to the explosion the was clearly just enveloping his torso right? It wasn't an outer body explosion, we haven't seen it demonstrate that prior either. Also, the effect only occurs against supernatural entities, this still wouldn't even make it 8-C by default.

"Gaibon didn't imploded which is what negs durability in the first place, you're saying that the whip then has Durability Negation on every single hit, which we don't have any proofs. The whip reacting to it is one thing (Completely unrelated to Durability Negation), the whip Holy-Haxing-the-monster-into-a-Living-Mini-Nuke is other thing"

No, the Holy magic is what negates durability, as it is what causes said reaction, Gaibon didn't implode because it was already dead, but unless you want to suggest the Leather Whip now sets fire to targets now because the wound was smoking and sizzling with flame, it's clear the body had a reaction to the whip.

Also, I don't understand what the "every single hit" argument is coming from, are you now suggesting the whip is picking and choosing where to apply the effect? You can't just cherry pick feats to what works for you.

My argument requires a whole lot less conjecture as we Trevor's statement indicates it's meant for vampires and monsters, and we see a clear reaction every time he hits something with it.

"Any proof that Alucard's case was because he's a half breed ?"

Because it wouldn't make sense otherwise for why he wasn't subjected to the whip's holy effect, Dracula reacts to it as much as every other monster, but what makes Alucard different? The fact that he's half human, whom we know the holy magic doesn't work on.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

You're referring to the explosion the was clearly just enveloping his torso right? It wasn't an outer body explosion, we haven't seen it demonstrate that prior either. Also, the effect only occurs against supernatural entities, this still wouldn't even make it 8-C by default.


Literally showing to you here the explosion being outside of his body

No, the Holy magic is what negates durability, as it is what causes said reaction, Gaibon didn't implode because it was already dead, but unless you want to suggest the Leather Whip now sets fire to targets now because the wound was smoking and sizzling with flame, it's clear the body had a reaction to the whip.

False

On the Castle Battle we see Trevor decapitating a vampire with the tip of the ehip and he still gets imploded after, so "Already dead" excuse doesn't work

Having a Reaction =/= Durability Negation, hell, not even close to that

Holy Manipulation on its own don't bypass any durability here, again, the Implosion does because it is a Inner attack, but the implosion didn't happened against Gaibon, Alucard and Dracula, so what makes you think it had Dura Neg in their cases ? I'll quote Knight again:

Durability Negation is not accepted unless specifically stated

Also, I don't understand what the "every single hit" argument is coming from, are you now suggesting the whip is picking and choosing where to apply the effect? You can't just cherry pick feats to what works for you.

That's literally what you are telling me, the Whip didn't imploded those three targets, so what makes you thik it bypassed their durability ? Holy Hax by itself isn't proof, and we don't have statements for this. I'm not saying that the whips chooses the target, if he wasn't affected it's because he has resistance, simple lol

My argument requires a whole lot less conjecture as we Trevor's statement indicates it's meant for vampires and monsters, and we see a clear reaction every time he hits something with it.

Trevor's line isn't proof, he just says the whip in enchanted to fight what he fights, anything beyond that is headcanon

Because it wouldn't make sense otherwise for why he wasn't subjected to the whip's holy effect, Dracula reacts to it as much as every other monster, but what makes Alucard different? The fact that he's half human, whom we know the holy magic doesn't work on.

Headcanon again, we don't have statements, scans, or any proof that Alucard wasn't affected because he's a hybrid, if we have, show me

Dracula reacts like any other monster ???????????????????????????????

> Show me he gettig IMPLODED by the whip, on the INSIDE and not just taking a outside explosion

> Show me he getting boiled by it

> Show me his body combusting into a IMplosion

Then I'll agree with you

 

[Ogbunabali]

Please stop making changes to profiles when the CRT hasn't been concluded.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I added Alucard's stuff which people already agreed

Trevor's stuff is obviously a placeholder, I have a version with Abs's opinion ready in case it gets accepted

 

[Ogbunabali]

Only like 2 people agreed to that. And I disagreed, and still do. Also the Trevor stuff is not only still being discussed but putting a placeholder is pretty bad.

I would appreciated if you revered them.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Then discussion time for Alucard aswell

I'll revert them to when I added season 3 images

Edit: Done

 

[Lightning_XXI]

When the thread was in the beggining, I didn't agreed with Alucard stuff, because Trevor was 9-B and the difference to Dracula was too big

Now that we have a High End 9-A calc for Trevor and Drac scales to low end 8-C, Alucard being around those two tiers makes sense to me

 

[Ogbunabali]

Thank you.

Also what high end 9-A calc?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

This one

Done with Spino's help and accepted by DMUA. Also perfectly fits the series as it makes Trevor and other Vampire Generals weaker than, but still capable of surviving Dracula's casual strikes

We know that Alucard is between Trevor and Dracula

 

[Abstractions]

The image you literally posted prior shows it enveloping his torso and the explosions have never been generated outside the target, that picture proves nothing.

"On the Castle Battle we see Trevor decapitating a vampire with the tip of the ehip and he still gets imploded after, so "Already dead" excuse doesn't work"

Incorrect, as this never happened.

"Having a Reaction =/= Durability Negation, hell, not even close to that

Holy Manipulation on its own don't bypass any durability here, again, the Implosion does because it is a Inner attack, but the implosion didn't happened against Gaibon, Alucard and Dracula, so what makes you think it had Dura Neg in their cases ?"

Except it literally does mean that, you clearly missed the entire castle battle sequence.

Gaibon was dead was sizzling from the stump where its head used to be and Dracula had suffered from the whip's magic, one was dead and the other was too strong for it to kill him outright.

"That's literally what you are telling me, the Whip didn't imploded those three targets, so what makes you thik it bypassed their durability ? Holy Hax by itself isn't proof, and we don't have statements for this. I'm not saying that the whips chooses the target, if he wasn't affected it's because he has resistance, simple lol"

Not what I said at all, stop misinterpreting my argument.

The only one not affected by a whip was Alucard.

"Trevor's line isn't proof, he just says the whip in enchanted to fight what he fights, anything beyond that is headcanon"

So you are discounting our only reliable source in verse as not proof to push your narrative? Sounds a little silly, don't you think?

Headcanon again, we don't have statements, scans, or any proof that Alucard wasn't affected because he's a hybrid, if we have, show me

It's not headcanon, just common sense.

For the Dracula argument, you literally just have to watch the scene again.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

The image you literally posted prior shows it enveloping his torso and the explosions have never been generated outside the target, that picture proves nothing.

Lol wtf, I'm literally showing you direct scans from the anime showing the explosion outside of his body and you just want to ignore ? That doesn't help you




You can see in the third scan the explosion expanding outside of his body, If it was inside, the explosion would change Dracula's body proportions since it's happening inside of him, however we only see a fire sphere forming and then exploding right in front of him

The whole scene of the explosion is right in front of you, the explosion happens right in front of Dracula while every other one was inside the body and you're still trying to say they are the same thing. Not only the difference between the explosions, you still have to show his body boiling and then combusting so we can say this scene is exactly like the others, I'm waiting here

Except it literally does mean that, you clearly missed the entire castle battle sequence.

Gaibon was dead was sizzling from the stump where its head used to be and Dracula had suffered from the whip's magic, one was dead and the other was too strong for it to kill him outright.

No I'm not, I watched the show you know ? Btw I don't know what is "sizzling". As I already showed, Dracula didn't took the Holy part because that would make him implode, which didn't happened, you still have to prove that even when it doesn't happens, the whip still have Durability Negation on its ow, again, show me statements, scans, proofs and quotes, again, again and again, without them, Dracula just took a explosion strong enough to hurt him

No, Holy Manipulation by itself doesn't bypass durability on its own without specific statements

Gaibon was attacked by the whip, died without exploding while other beings exploded even after they were dead, if you really want to believe Gaibon still got his durability negated, then you're saying it negs with every hit and not by triggering an Inner explosion, which is wrong without any statements

Also, Gaibon's head still on his body after the strike



So you are discounting our only reliable source in verse as not proof to push your narrative? Sounds a little silly, don't you think?

Nope, I don't think so, because ? It isn't source to justify Durability Negation, the statement only covers the reason why the Whip is enchanted and that's all, I'm not denying its existence or something like that, I'll quote Knight once more, there is no Durability Negation without specific statements, and this statements is far from that, take Witcher's Silver as an example of what I'm talking about, they have a EXPLICIT quote saying that mosnters have no defense against Silver, what we have for Castlevania ? Trevor saying the whip is consagrated to fight Demons and Vampires. See the difference ? One explains what Durability Negation is and the other justify why the whip has powers, two completely different things

It's not headcanon, just common sense.

I'm not asking for "common sense", that's not evidence of nothing, I'm asking for statements, proofs, scans, quotes of Alucard being resistant thanks to his hybrid physiology and I'm still waiting them

 

[Lightning_XXI]

How about we wait for the 3rd season tho ? This debate is already repeating itself and the next season might give us more info about the whip, going by the trailer

Prolonging this with the chance to have many other information in the next season doesn't make sense, it's like 20 days only

And we need to talk about Alucard

 

[Abstractions]

sigh


Gaibon's now mutilated head after being struck


Smoke and embers indicating a reaction.


Notice the lack of explosion?


Notice the explosion slowly building up from his chest?


How the explosion never expands past his torso?

It's right there in front of you, as you are saying.

No I'm not, I watched the show you know ?

Then you know he didn't decapitate a vampire with it, and just stuck the head of the whip in its mouth, right?

"Nope, I don't think so, because ? It isn't source to justify Durability Negation, the statement only covers the reason why the Whip is enchanted and that's all, I'm not denying its existence or something like that, I'll quote Knight once more, "there is no Durability Negation without specific statements, and this statements is far from that""

This is deliberately obtuse, Trevor's statement is backing up the Holy Manipulation attached to the whip to fight monsters, not saying Durability Negation itself, the Durability Negation comes from the reaction everything supernatural has to the Holy magic attached to the whip, literally backed up by every single fight with it. Knight's quote means nothing when it isn't tackling the context behind it, so please stop quoting him.

"I'm not asking for "common sense", that's not evidence of nothing, I'm asking for statements, proofs, scans, quotes of Alucard being resistant thanks to his hybrid physiology and I'm still waiting them"

How about you explain to me why Alucard is resistant to the whip then? Give me "your" explanation. Are you saying Trevor isn't credible on his own family's history? Are you saying the whip is just picky (which obviously doesn't make sense)? Why is Dracula effected by the whip if Alucard isn't? Come up with a reason exactly as to why someone much weaker than Dracula would not suffer the effects of the holy magic but the strongest thing in verse will?

I'm not here to do the work for you.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

As it stands right now, I would have to agree with Dante, but waiting for the third season for some more stuff sounds like an acceptable solution after applying whatever can be agreed about.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

How the explosion never expands past his torso?

Maybe because it explodes in the next frame ? lmao


Just look, if the explosion were inside of him, it would desfigure his body in the process, and we see the expading part outside of it, so not, the effect of the Holy propertie which is Implosion didn't happened here, Dracula took a raw explosion from the whip getting hurt in the process, 8-C whip

Then you know he didn't decapitate a vampire with it, and just stuck the head of the whip in its mouth, right?

Oohhhh so it's you who's not watching it huh ?




He's decapitated, died and then boom

This is deliberately obtuse, Trevor's statement is backing up the Holy Manipulation attached to the whip to fight monsters, not saying Durability Negation itself, the Durability Negation comes from the reaction everything supernatural has to the Holy magic attached to the whip, literally backed up by every single fight with it. Knight's quote means nothing when it isn't tackling the context behind it, so please stop quoting him.

Trevor's statements doesn't mention Holy or Dura Negation, he only says the whip has powers to fight demons and Vampires, even mentioning these two species isn't enough as it's basically what he fights, mentioning anything else would be stupid, and Knight's quote basically explains the situation, you don't have enough proof to say it Dura Negs even without the implosion

Holy Manip is listed because it reacts to monsters and only by that, causing an implosion, to not get imploded, you need to have resistance to Holy Manipulation, if you have this resistance, the whip will not implode you, which means it only comes down to its AP, which was enough to kill Gaibon, and hurt Alucard and Dracula

How about you explain to me why Alucard is resistant to the whip then? Give me "your" explanation. Are you saying Trevor isn't credible on his own family's history? Are you saying the whip is just picky (which obviously doesn't make sense)? Why is Dracula effected by the whip if Alucard isn't? Come up with a reason exactly as to why someone much weaker than Dracula would not suffer the effects of the holy magic but the strongest thing in verse will?

First, Dracula didn't took the Holy Properties, he resisted, the Holy hax trigger a implosion which didn't happened, it was a normal explosion generated by the Morning Star as far as the show had to offer

Also, one was the Leather Whip, the other was the Morning Star, the later is stronger than the other

I dunno why this could mean the whip is picky, dunno from where that came from, only three beings were resistant against the implosion and not by Trevor's choice

So, 99% of the characters profiles have something called Resistance, if something has a Hax and hits you and you don't get affected, your are resistant to it. Yeees, some cases it's different but not because of "commom sense", but because we have in lore explanations that explain why a certain character was unaffected by some sort of Hax, in Castlevania's case, we don't have anything saying that Alucard is immune because he's half human, this excuse was used to explain why he can walk at sunlight but that's all

What we see is that the whip implodes unholy beings by its Holy Hax, resisting the Holy Hax means not getting imploded, not getting imploded means not getting Dura Neg, not getting Dura Neg means the whip needs AP to hurt you. Dracula didn't imploded, which means he resisted the Holy hax, which means he wasn't Dura Neg, which means he only took the whip's AP

 

[Lightning_XXI]

As it stands right now, I would have to agree with Dante, but waiting for the third season for some more stuff sounds like an acceptable solution after applying whatever can be agreed about.

Thank you and yeah

One good and specific statement in the new season can completely nuke me or Abstractions lol, we should just wait

Something like "Monsters are defenseless against the whip's strikes" or something like "The Whip's powers rivals that of Dracula" would be enough to apply my version or Abstractions version

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

From the scans shown, Dante is right about the whip and explosion.

 

[Abstractions]

There's no evidence the Morning Star generates explosions on its own, you will need to back that up.

"Maybe because it explodes in the next frame ? lmao"

I mean, that's how explosions work, but it came from Dracula as a catalyst for it, the Morning Star does not create explosions itself.

"Just look, if the explosion were inside of him, it would disfigure his body in the process, and we see the expading part outside of it, so not, the effect of the Holy propertie which is Implosion didn't happened here, Dracula took a raw explosion from the whip getting hurt in the process, 8-C whip"

It didn't disfigure him because he's strong enough to withstand it. Dracula took a strike from the whip, which interacted with Dracula to create the explosion, that makes the Holy magic the thing that harmed him, not the whip, that's literally how it works. You cannot scale the whip to the hax interaction it has with the supernatural.

The whip cannot generate anything 8-C without making contact to something supernatural, so why are we even attempting to justify it being flat 8-C? It doesn't make logical sense.

The vampire being decapitated doesn't discount Gaibon, it still had a reaction to the whip, the fight I was referring to was the one right before Dracula where Trevor stuck the head of the Morning Star whip inside a vampire's mouth and hit him, which resulted in the vampire combusting.

First, Dracula didn't took the Holy Properties, he resisted, the Holy hax trigger a implosion which didn't happened, it was a normal explosion generated by the Morning Star as far as the show had to offer

If you mean he resisted it by not dying, yes, but if he resisted it there wouldn't have been the explosion that harmed him in the first place, there is no separating the two.

I dunno why this could mean the whip is picky, dunno from where that came from, only three beings were resistant against the implosion and not by Trevor's choice

Well, no, Alucard resisted, Gaibon and Dracula didn't, as obviously shown.

So, 99% of the characters profiles have something called Resistance, if something has a Hax and hits you and you don't get affected, your are resistant to it. Yeees, some cases it's different but not because of "commom sense", but because we have in lore explanations that explain why a certain character was unaffected by some sort of Hax, in Castlevania's case, we don't have anything saying that Alucard is immune because he's half human, this excuse was used to explain why he can walk at sunlight but that's all

Again, Dracula was affected, just not killed by it. This does not magically mean that the holy hax did not exist when he was struck like you are trying to argue, the explosions and the holy hax come together, you cannot separate it. It is using simple intuition that we can come to the conclusion that the factor that Alucard lacks the weakness to common vampire tropes is the fact he's part human, therefore we can make the assumption that it could be the same case against the whips. It is not the stretch you are making it out to be.

"What we see is that the whip implodes unholy beings by its Holy Hax, resisting the Holy Hax means not getting imploded, not getting imploded means not getting Dura Neg, not getting Dura Neg means the whip needs AP to hurt you. Dracula didn't imploded, which means he resisted the Holy hax, which means he wasn't Dura Neg, which means he only took the whip's AP"

This line of reasoning is made null when you realize resisting doesn't equal negating the effects of something, as Dracula, very clearly, was affected by the holy hax as it caused the explosion. Simple as that. You cannot say he only took the whip's AP because the scene disagrees with you.

 

[Abstractions]

If we want to wait for Season 3 to discuss the specifics of the Whip we can, but as of now Trevor should not be used for debates unless we can come to a conclusion now.