Nerfing Undertale God Tiers and deleting Annoying Dog

[StrymULTRA]

Without useless introductions, I think I should explain the main issue I found with the Undertale 2-Bs.

No, 2-B in itself is fine, the issue is the amount of universes being scaled to.

In the current cosmology blog, it's basically said that the Game World housing the timelines should be in "Ad Infinitum" range (which for people unfamiliar with the term is an infinitely expanding number that will always be finite despite constantly increasing with no end) because of the RESETs being able to be done infinitely, with the God tiers like Chara and Asriel always being able to influence it no matter what.

Well, the problem is that this is a big fat NLF, given that the timelines are generated only when a LOAD or RESET occurs. Ad Infinitum implies that the game world always increases constantly by itself, when it's not the case by what it's currently used, as it only increases in size when the SAVE File is used, rather than doing so by itself. By this logic also it technically implies that the Game World is 2-A in size given that it can physically hold whatever timeline is made even if spammed RESETs over and over infinitely, and that's definitely a bit too far fetched for my liking.

Because of this, and also the creator of the blog being deactivated from Fandom by self-request, I think I should step in with a new version.

This is the sandbox of the new blog, which has the following:

• Same structure, but uses more scans and gives generally more context.
• Gives more elaborated answers to the counter-arguments mostly commoned used against the notion of "RESETs = New timelines".
• Also gives a new size for the cosmology.

For the latter, while a real number is unknown, the cosmology should still be 2-B due to:

• Flowey suspecting the Player in having heard his speech to not RESET at the end of the Pacifist route a hundred times already, implying that Flowey himself also did use the RESET to experience each of the 3 main routes of the game a similar amount of times as well.
• Flowey implying to have used the LOAD far more than he used the RESETs as he hinted to have redone even simple tasks hundreds of times each, an example being him having attempted hundreds of times making Asgore give him the six Human SOULs, but failing, or also him implying to have died to the various bosses multiple times.

And these are only specks of the total amount of times Flowey used the SAVE System, due to him having abused it to the point of doing every possible thing in the Underground and learning to memory every possible dialogue, making the total amount of LOADs and RESETs he performed far, far more than the aforementioned actions.

I think it should be safe to assume the total amount of timelines should be at least thousands following this.

If accepted, the sandbox will become a new blog (or page, idk) that will replace the current one.

Also there's a last thing I'd like to tackle on...

Annoying Dog deletion

What. Is. This!?

This profile is genuienly dumb, especially with this:

Note: While the Annoying Dog may be a representation of Toby Fox, the creator of Undertale and Deltarune, the character itself does not have evidence supporting him being behind the creation of either game's universe in the series' storyline.

This is completely false because of multiple factors:

• Annoying Dog IS a representation of Toby (even if it's inconsistent sometimes), due to it stating to be Toby multiple times from also outside sources, other than a LOT of Twitter statements hinting to such (like guys, come on). He uses the dog as an avatar like constantly, like his current twitter pfp, or also in multiple newsletters.
• Based on the above, the infamous "barking a game in existence" is definitely reffered to Annoying Dog creating the Undertale verse, especially if we take in account that back when there was only Deltarune Chapter 1, it wasn't possible to access the computer lab of the Library because the dog was still making the game (and guess what happened in Chapter 2, duh).

No, I am not trying to make a 2-B/1-A Annoying Dog profile. Just that we should delete it until we have more concrete information to properly index its status as the creator of the verse, as right now it's just used for gags and has literally no combat showings or truly showcased abilities.

We have deleted Gaster because of this, we have deleted OPM God for a similar reason, so Annoying Dog should also go.

 

[AyeZ2]

Agree

 

[McFriesGuy075]

If the number of SAVE and LOADs performed is an unknown large number, wouldn't it basically be uncountable?

 

[StrymULTRA]

If the number of SAVE and LOADs performed is an unknown large number, wouldn't it basically be uncountable?

No.

Unknown is not necessairly equivalent to MWI degrees of multiverse, as you have no evidence Flowey has reset literally trillions of times or more, just that he did a lot.

We have to use low ends in order to avoid baseless high ratings that are high for the sake of being so, and there's no real evidence for Undertale's cosmology being that high besides assumptions.

 

[Arceus0x]

the Game World housing the timelines should be in "Ad Infinitum" range

AD INFINITUM YOU [S A Y]?

 

[StrymULTRA]

AD INFINITUM YOU [S A Y]?

That's so peak.

I AM [salivating] AND [tearing apart] FROM H E A V E N'S [soundfont]!! !1

 

[Da3ggman]

This all seems fine

 

[Speedblitzer50]

Agree

 

[Omegabronic]

No.

Unknown is not necessairly equivalent to MWI degrees of multiverse, as you have no evidence Flowey has reset literally trillions of times or more, just that he did a lot.

We have to use low ends in order to avoid baseless high ratings that are high for the sake of being so, and there's no real evidence for Undertale's cosmology being that high besides assumptions.

Wasn't the argument that Chara could erase the world regardless of how many times you reset or loaded?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wasn't the argument that Chara could erase the world regardless of how many times you reset or loaded?

This is where the NLF argument gets in.

It was never stated, we have no proof they can do that if the game contains a quadrillion timelines or similar big numbers.

It's basically an assumption that relies on game logic waaay too much.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Agree with Annoying Dog thingy, disagree with cosmology thingy, as you could have expected.

Btw, I don’t think that Japanese video is inconsistency but just a joke like here (“I coincidentally walk in front of his face every time he is on camera”, like c’mon now).

 

[Greatsage13th]

It's basically an assumption that relies on game logic waaay too much.

To be fair, Undertale scaling is almost a 100% primarily based on game logic. So, I can see why we tend to have something so absurd but plausible at the same time. But, as it still stands; we should stick to a safe low-ball.

 

[StrymULTRA]

disagree with cosmology thingy, as you could have expected

You... Have to elaborate on why though.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

You... Have to elaborate on why though.

I don’t, because I’m not a staff lol. Not like my vote matters anyways.

Also surprised that you asked for elaboration given that I already stated my view on how cosmology should be in Undertale to you some time ago

 

[StrymULTRA]

don’t, because I’m not a staff lol. Not like my vote matters anyways.

This hasn't stopped people from elaborating and disagreeing despite not being staff lol.

But whatever.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I made the Annoying Dog profile

The gist is that it shouldn't be deleted, it has actual (obvious/concrete) on-screen feats and appearances, something Gaster doesn't have. Also, the 'barking into the machine created the universe of Undertale' is a theory born from a gag, not actual lore. The scene is a reference to Undertale's creation, sure, but it doesn't mean that the dog literally made Undertale and Deltarune. The Undertale Dog profile was deleted due to being weird and the feat of making a game being too vague and gaggy. Same with the computer lab thing, it seems to be literally working on a game (Seems like when the game's finished, you can go in...)

The profile was named "Annoying Dog (Deltarune)" when I uploaded it, but that seems to have been removed. Even if we don't have a profile for the Undertale one, I still think it's an important distinction. The profile is indexxing the Deltarune character specifically

It kills Kris, knocks around tables, destroys a key, explodes a door, hits Swatchlings... It has more feats than, say, the average enemy

He's indexed for what he is currently, a gag character with minor plot relevance. It has at least two major plot events, causing the traffic jam that leads Kris and Susie to the Cyber World and then later helping them through the key puzzle

It's one of my earliest profiles, so it could use a clean-up, but I really and truly don't think don't think it should be deleted.

If I may make a compromise, I suggest adding the "(Deltarune)" back into the title and removing the note, or at least tweaking it to be something more along the lines of; "While the Annoying Dog is a persona used by Toby Fox, the creator of Deltarune, the character itself does not have sufficient evidence supporting it being behind the universe's creation in-universe"

If we get lore later that confirms the Dog made Deltarune, we can do a CRT then, but for right now, the profile is based on what we see in-game, and has plenty to stand imo

 

[Robo432343]

but annoying dog is so cute
agree with most