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Neptunia Downgrade

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ZeroZeroes0

ZeroZeroes0

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Okay, I wanna talk about a possible downgrade for the Hyperdimension Neptunia cast but before any of you say anything, just hear me out. Also, before we get into this, someone already made a post talking about this named MacMar02 and here is the post on DA.

https://www.deviantart.com/macmar02/art/Hyperdimension-Neptunia-strength-debunking-801298409

Unfortunately, while the post did seem pretty good and I appreciate the amount of research, thought, time and effort he put into this, but it's pretty off. My problems started with how he explained the Dark CPUs' and how they couldn't destroy a city block which did seem pretty good, but he didn't go into much detail and didn't explain it very well.

First off, I don't like how he called out and kinda poked fun at other users who think they are this powerful he could have been a little more nicer but you can't blame everyone for getting a little overconfident. Especially since that's happened to me myself.

Also, I think he should have pointed out that there was four of them doing it and that they were most likely not holding, which is a first but can be let slide. Also, he didn't really explain very good on how it wouldn't make them as strong as people think.

And another problem came into play when he started talking about Bleach doing a similar feat. For starters, if you're gonna compare a Hyperdimension Neptunia to another series with a similar feat, I'd recommend talking about the Maginary World in Sonic Shuffle which Heart Dimension is very similar to.
Also, it's not really that good to bring in another series to the mix just to prove your point, albeit whether it makes sense or how similar it is or not.

Of course I had another problem with what he said. People didn't compare the speed feats of dodging lasers in Hyperdimension making them MFTL but rather traveling between dimensions, which I think he should have thought out more.

Once he talks about the sizes of Heart Dimension and Zero Dimension, I think he could have done better at explaining, and I don't think Zero Dimension really needs to be accounted for since it's not even real.

Although, when he talks about Rei's universe busting feats being invalid, I do have to agree with him on there since I don't see how what she's doing can be considered Low Multiversal.

Enough about that, let me explain.
Firstly, the size of Gamindustri and the nations are debatable but we really don't see how big the nations or Gaimindustri are. You can argue the manga says something about it being a universe, but first off the manga is not canon to the main storyline. Before you ask me what evidence there is that the manga isn't canon, let me ask you. Is there any evidence it is canon?
I mean, if there isn't evidence it is something then what does it matter if there isn't evidence to prove it's not? Do think about that.

Moving onto the speed feats, he does make sense about the whole thing about dodging lasers not making sense he got from this other user by the username of ApocalypseDunk. But what he actually should've accounted for is the traveling between dimensions.

First off, it's actually more apparent that instead of traveling between worlds, they more or less just teleporting rather than traveling. Kurome states "I started too see events in hyperdimension more clearly, and for a short time materialize there." Did you catch that? She said she materialized as in appeared in an instant. Not traveling, no lightspeed, therefore no Massively Faster Than Light speeds.

That being said, the first downgrade is that the Hyperdimension Neptunia characters should be downgraded down from MFTL to Hyper Sonic or Relativistic.

Next off, is the whole merging between dimensions thing which I can agree with MacMar02 that Kurome does almost nothing on her own, but he should go into more detail. Also, I don't remember when she started using Rei's powers to speed the process of colliding Hyperdimension with Heart Dimension, I'm curious to know where he got that idea.

Though, with the mention of these other DA users he probably got that idea from one of them. Kurome does say stuff like "From there, I cam up with the method of fusing two dimensions, to materialize in Hyper Dimension without breaking my seal." Which doesn't say that she herself was the one doing the dimension merging in all honesty.

Also, the little thing he says about the Golden Towers being anchors could use some working out instead of using the quote, "Thanks to the Golden Summits becoming markers, I was able to guide this dimension's movement towards Hyper Dimension." I think he could have used a better quote, but her saying she needed the Golden Towers is proof alone Kurome didn't do all this herself.

Though this could also translate to 'The Golden Towers were what guided Heart Dimension's movement towards Hyper Dimension.' I believe so anyway. Allowing herself to properly appear there without needing to destroying the boundaries between the 2 dimensions.

But when she says, "The peculiar signal that the Golden Summits radiate is rare in multidimensional space, so it's traceable from other dimensions." I don't know if that contradicts what he says or adds to it, but I think it might make sense in the long run.

Next quote from her, "This world, Heart Dimension, is a place created inside the heart of my sealed and sleeping self. Or rather... it's inside a dream I'm having. After all, the nightmare of me destroying Gamindustri is the basis of Heart Dimension." Also might translate to Heart Dimension being a ruined version of Gamindustri. Hell even the Nepedia itself states it's based off of a ruined Gamindustri.

The other problem with how people say stuff like this dimension has stars and a moon therefore it's universe sized. That is not a valid argument. It may have stars, a moon and a sun, but does it have a solar system? Does it have the other planets in the solar system? Galaxies? There's no real proof of that.

Moreover, these could just as well be an astral projection as there really isn't any proof of these being real. They never fly up to the moon, stars, or sun to see if they're real, and these three have not been mention by the characters at all to be real.

Also, another thing that says Gamindustri is a continent is how it is referred to in Nitroplus "This continent held an organization that worshipped The Deity of Sin." I think it was also mentioned in the Gust events of MK2, but I don't really remember to be honest.

Another thing I have to give to MacMar02, is that he is very right about what Croire says being invalid. Saying something is a dimension does not equal universe size. And one thing I believe he should have added, is that just because there's no evidence something is not universe sized, it doesn't mean that there is evidence it is universe sized.

If you have evidence something is that big, then show it rather than just saying there's no evidence to say otherwise.

Again, the manga and anime are not canon and nether is Super Neptunia. The evidence being how they take place in completely different timelines with different events happening in them. I mean, look at how Neptune meets the characters in one of the Hyperdimension games and compare that to the stuff I state not to be canon. You'll find evidence there.

In short, the Neptunia characters are suggested to be downgraded from 2-C to back down to 6-A or 6-B. Whichever tier they were at before they were thrown to 2-C. And their speed should be brought down to Hypersonic or Relativistic.

Hope this doesn't piss anybody on this site off, hope you all agree and thank you for reading. Also, yes I know I have blog about this and I don't know how to take that down.
 
Alright, let's see

1 - The part about the Dark CPUs "not being able to destroy a single city block" is a non argument. It's a cinematic showing their arrival to the Gamindustri of the Zero Dimension, with no dialogue or anything saying they're having trouble or something. By that logic any universal character in fiction that doesn't destroy everything around them by doing anything should be downgraded.

2 - CPUs here aren't MFTL so idk where that comes from

3 - About Gamindustri's size, there's several things to point out. First of all, Gamindustri is only the continent on which the 4 main Nations are built. It's been shown in several instances that there's more to the world than Gamindustri. As for the Dimension's size, Occam's Razor. It's the standard setting of the series, and considering nothing contraddicts it, the most reasonable assumption is that the Dimensions are regular Universes. Anything else would need several baseless assumptions. As for the manga, it's officially licensed, so at worst it'd be considered tertiary canon by our canonicity rules (as idk if its supervised by the games' writers), meaning the statement about it being an Universe can be taken into account, further reinforcing the point.

4 - About Kurome, she has a blatant on screen feat of rewriting the Hyperdimension, and before you bring up what you said in your other thread, in that sequence she was talking about something else entirely, which happened just before the true Uzume sealed herself in the past, so it has nothing to do with the feat. The point about the golden summits is your reworking of an in game sentence that shifts its subjects making it look like she isn't the one doing the feat. I hope I don't need to explain how that's wrong. Her using Rei's powers is mentioned when you first get into the Heart Dimension, Croire (iirc) explains it to the others.

5 - About the Zero and Heart Dimension being not real, sure they were created "inside the heart of a sealed and sleeping Uzume", but there's so much proving how very real they are there's no way one can say otherwise

>Our very real characters from the Hyperdimension physically travelling to and existing in them

>Them existing and having their own coordinates in the multidimensional space where all the dimensions exist

>It almost fusing with the Hyperdimension

>Characters from it still existing and being very real in the Hyperdimension even after both Zero and Heart Dimension ceased to exist

And I could go on


6. About the canonicity of the other games, they're all made and/or supervised by Compile Heart/Idea Factory, so they fall into our rules for canonicity. Even then, considering the setting, them taking place in different timelines is not a proof of them not being canon. It's more than reasonable to assume that they just take place in different dimensions than the mainline games (iirc it's even mentioned in some of them), especially considering how it's confirmed that there are infinite dimensions in the series.

7. About Rei "only sending rays from the sky when she was destroying the Ultradimension", that's missing context. Rei herself states that she only wanted to lure out the CPUs with that move, so she never intended to actually destroy the dimension in the first place. And considering how hyped up are her powers in the series, there's no reason to not take her being able to destroy Dimensions seriously.

I think that's all. Btw the thread is on the wrong board, it should be moved to the Content Revision board
 
Okay, I think I get ya a little bit, but if Kurome really did rewrite Hyperdimension then wouldn't characters like Histoire not know who Uzume is? She says the name sounds familiar, but if history was rewritten then how does, Histoire would have never had the hat she wore since is based on Uzume's HDD form nor would she say that Uzume's name sound familiar if she truly altered history.

There would have been no way people would still remember her, like the old man in the true ending that uzume mentions and histoire.
 
They kept their memories after the reset. It isn't something unseen in fiction, and it's the reason why HDN characters have/will have type 1 acausality on their profiles.

There are too many differences in the Hyperdimension's Gamindustri after the reset for it to only be Memory Wiping
 
A random old man has Time Paradox Immunity? What about Compa and IF? They're not CPUs yet they still have memories like Histoire and that man
 
Well, both keeping memories after a reset and keeping memories after being affected by memory manip aren't something ordinary, so in any case them being normal humans isn't really relevant. Also nothing says it's only for CPUs so ye

Not to mention that the old man kept memories after both happened as he was from the time when Uzume actually used memory manip before sealing herself, so he both has Time Paradox Immunity and memory manip resistance
 
What reset are you talking about? Nothing changed, the entire world stayed the same. Umio and the other monsters would cease to exist, if everything got reseted to the point where Uzume didnt get sealed, then any creation in zero/heart dimension would cease to exist, including Umio, hell it would also mean those event never happend.

Meaning no Gold third, no Next form, no Steamax and Affimojas, therefore there was no reset, it was all memory manipulation, and therefore no rewriting history.
 
Dude, that is not any proof that debunks anything. How does her saying she rewrote the Hyperdimension compare to what's actually being shown?

The structures not changing, Histoire still having some memory of Uzume, the fact that things that shouldn't exist do exist, those three facts alone contridict her rewriting history.
 
RKGenki seems to make sense, but we preferably need more community input.
 
Have you asked these members to help out here?
 
Ask the others as well then.
 
ZeroZeroes0 said:
Dude, that is not any proof that debunks anything. How does her saying she rewrote the Hyperdimension compare to what's actually being shown?

The structures not changing, Histoire still having some memory of Uzume, the fact that things that shouldn't exist do exist, those three facts alone contridict her rewriting history.
Click to expand...
We see it happen on screen tho, she didn't just say it.

>The structures not changing

Aside from this not being a requirement in any way, there are some evident changes. Off the top of my head, the appearance of the Golden Summits, Lowee's completely different social organization and a million of Leanbox's citizens already having undergone S-Sha's trial and having already become Ran-pigs.

>Histoire still having memories of Uzume

And this proves... what exactly? I don't see the point you're trying to make as that has nothing to do with this. Now, if you mentioned her still having memories of Neptune, who's the one who was removed from her role with the rewrite, that'd make more sense. But it'd still just be a feat of Time Paradox Immunity.

>Things that shouldn't exist do exist

And what are those things supposed to be? If you mean the parts of the console in which Uzume was sealed, retrieving them was part of Kurome's plan so there's no reason for them to not exist anymore. Uzume wasn't removed from history, you're confusing two different events. In the past before the game's events, Uzume erased everyone's memories before sealing herself. During the game, we see Kurome rewriting the world on scree.

Just because history is rewritten it doesn't mean that literally everything has to change. What Kurome did was make it so that the current CPUs never ruled their nations while having the Gold Third take their place
 
Genki said it all, so there's not much else that needs to be said of what's been thrown currently.

I disagree with this downgrade.
 
Should I close this thread then?
 
Okay, if she truly just altered history then she would have said something along the lines of: I erased the time period when I was the ruler of planeptune, making it so I never existed.

Also, saying "Just because history was rewritten doesn't mean everything has to change" just sounds like you're changing your argument.

I don't understand how it doesn't make sense that she just manipulated everyone's memories when she herself stated that, that was all she did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUDjIdjp8Qc&list=PLxey1mubvoZKRH5Fv9H7Gt_9xirQuoRnI&index=16 2:18, Histoire says the existence of the CPU's have been erased from the memory's of gameindustri's population, and it is becouse of that memory manipulation that history has been rewritte.

History has simply changed from getting there memories erased, the reason Histoire wasnt affected is becouse she's an artificial life form that records history.

Meaning all the events that happend up in that point is still recorded within Histoire. If history was truly rewritten then even Histoire wouldn't be able to remember Neptune and the event that happens up until that point with her.

Since it never happend was never recorded within Histoire, it's got nothing to do with Time Paradox Immunity.

Neptune and the other CPU's wouldnt be able to transform into there CPU form if history was rewritten, since they couldnt haven been connected to there sharicite and wouldnt have any share's to begin with.

I know this is a lot to take in but it all makes sense.
 
Kurome said Uzume erased people's memories when she removed herself from history. I even said that myself.

That has nothing to do with what Kurome did during the game. I'm tired of repeating this, the two events have nothing to do with each other.

Literally a few seconds later, "this phenomeon occurred because some unknown power somehow altered the entire history of Gamindustri."

This contraddicts everything you said. She literally states that people's memories were changed because of history being rewritten. She even mentions seconds earlier during the same explanation that she kept her memories because she was made to record history, further proving her having TPI.

Neptune and the others' connection with shares was never severed, as people who still believed in them and remembered them existed. But due to being few, they were weakened.
 
Forget it, I give up. It's clear to me that you don't believe anything that makes sense so I'm not even gonna try anymore.

I've presented more than enough evidence to say that the Neptunia characters aren't 2-C or anything higher and how what is said is contridicted throughout the series, but apparently it's all wrong according to you guys.

I know for a fact anyone smart enough would know that everything that has to do with saying that history was altered is contridicted by all these other stuff and I've debunked your arguments and yet you can't agree with me.

I swear, I'm talking to children at this point so I am done trying to talk sense into you guys.
 
Everything the Neptunia crew says about rewriting history is contridicted and Zero just explained why it doesn't make sense.
 
Also, the guards still remember Neptune, so there's another thing that contridicts the whole rewriting history thing.
 
Well, the same thing happened in A Hat in Time and we considers it as the characters having a possible resistance. It should be the same here.
 
And the Maginary World in Sonic Shuffle was the same as Heart Dimensions. Everyone thought that was what made the Sonic Multiversal, but it got debunked that it didn't later on.
 
Also, didn't I explain how something happening in another series shouldn't back up statements just because they were similar?
 
Also, were those normal characters in that Hat of Time game that had the same thing happen to them? Cause I'm pretty sure some random guards wouldn't have just suddenly kept their memories of Neptune.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message later if you need my help.
 
I still disagree with this downgrade.

Also, I don't think it's all that helpful to your cause to try belittling your opposition if said opposers aren't "being talked sense into". Hell, I don't think it was even worth doing at all.
 
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