(NEED STAFF EVALUATIONS!!) GGZ Yog Sothoth Tier 0 - Finalizing

[Antvasima]

Ihsjihahxu and Frans_Kadmon seem to make some valid points above. I am still uncertain about this.

 

[BreezeHM]

Yog Sothoth (Guns Girl Z)

Yog Sothoth is an Outer God of the franchise Houkai Gakuen 2 or Gun Girls Z. The Outer Gods, deities who reside beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

most of your scans don't work, unless its on my end

 

[BleedingPeach]

Yog Sothoth (Guns Girl Z)

Yog Sothoth is an Outer God of the franchise Houkai Gakuen 2 or Gun Girls Z. The Outer Gods, deities who reside beyond the space-time of the Universe have infinite wisdom, but due to that fact they also have endless loneliness. Here you can attain anything you want, except while attaining it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

most of your scans don't work, unless its on my end

I've tried too and also it doesn't work.

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

"That? But... what if the God I believe in is Wisdom itself?"

I saw this, and if I'm connecting it correctly, it should link to this part in the raw scans:

“这样吗？但是……如果我相信的神就是智慧本身呢？”

I found it would be better to focus on this topic as supporting evidence for the Tier 0 discussion. Here, "Wisdom" is "智慧" which means deep knowledge and differs from normal "wisdom". And before that in the original raw scan, this explanation appears:

"大日之下，混然一泡而出，无智无得，状若琉璃，即现即隐。"

Here the word "泡" means "bubble". According to @Weaver261's explanation, Yog-Sothoth indicates it's her metaphorical device, followed by "无智无得" meaning "devoid of wisdom and attainment". But as seen, "智" here is similar to the form of "智慧" which is specified to be Yog-Sothoth herself (and lexically both translate to 'wisdom'), but these two words are different. This makes me want to see the scan for "Wisdom" as explained here by weaver:

In Yog Sothoth case, wisdom = omniscience. Wisdom not as a concept but rather all knowing existence. Wisdom is just an extension from her. It's the same as bubbles as they are showed together.

This should be able to expand on Yog-Sothoth being "Wisdom Itself" since as currently explained it's ambiguous and seems insubstantial. If there are feats or statements that can be used for additional explanation, it would be better to include them. (Additionally, if I've made any mistakes, please let me know)

Yog sothoth existing Wuji is just my theory based on Tao as entry 2 is directly referencing to Tao Te Ching. Entry 2 original chinese text is 道德泡经 meaning "dao de pao jing". Pao, if i'm not mistaken, means bubble. It's just Tao Te Ching but with bubbles. In my previous thread OP, i also cited some Tao Te Ching verses that are almost word to word with entry 2.
See? That's just Tao Te ching with bubbles. But I can understand your concerns. Wuji is the un-manifest aspect of Tao. Taiji is Tao in movement which result in yin and yang. While Wuji is Tao in stillness. The world behind the door is where time and space are not moving. Everything in the cosmo is governed by Yin and Yang. These are the two forces that move the cosmo. Then, it's safe to assume the world behind the door where time and space not moving is Wuji where these two are not moving. Wuji also metaphysically preceed Taiji. It's also stated in her description and entry 5 like "beyond the space-time of universe", "outside of space-time". I hope this clear things up.

Well, if that's really everything, honestly I don't quite agree with picking up concepts that just reference external sources in that verse without additional explanation from WoG. (And/or in-verse additional explanation)
Well, I think I've made my point clear enough since the previous post that weaver replied to. I disagree Yog-Sothoth's qualification for Tier 0 (regarding with having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0).

 

[GarrixianXD]

I saw this, and if I'm connecting it correctly, it should link to this part in the raw scans:

I found it would be better to focus on this topic as supporting evidence for the Tier 0 discussion. Here, "Wisdom" is "智慧" which means deep knowledge and differs from normal "wisdom". And before that in the original raw scan, this explanation appears:

Here the word "泡" means "bubble". According to @Weaver261's explanation, Yog-Sothoth indicates it's her metaphorical device, followed by "无智无得" meaning "devoid of wisdom and attainment". But as seen, "智" here is similar to the form of "智慧" which is specified to be Yog-Sothoth herself (and lexically both translate to 'wisdom'), but these two words are different. This makes me want to see the scan for "Wisdom" as explained here by weaver:

智 is almost always used as a synonym for "wisdom" in Mandarin and Archaic Chinese. It correlates to knowledge and intellect under all context.

Well, if that's really everything, honestly I don't quite agree with picking up concepts that just reference external sources in that verse without additional explanation from WoG. (And/or in-verse additional explanation)
Well, I think I've made my point clear enough since the previous post that weaver replied to. I disagree Yog-Sothoth's qualification for Tier 0 (regarding with having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0).

WoG is often extremely inaccurate and contradictory in the main lore; we do make exceptions for certain author explanations that are specifically from Q&A events, otherwise such practices are often not permitted. Not to mention we even have a rule against asking for WoG out of the blue for powerscaling intents.

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

智 is almost always used as a synonym for "wisdom" in Mandarin and Archaic Chinese. It correlates to knowledge and intellect under all context.

Thank?

WoG is often extremely inaccurate and contradictory in the main lore; we do make exceptions for certain author explanations that are specifically from Q&A events, otherwise such practices are often not permitted. Not to mention we even have a rule against asking for WoG out of the blue for powerscaling intents.

I think that's a normal thing. (You can provide information from in-verse if you want. At this point, I think it needs trends pointing in, not just from WoG but I also include statements, feats, etc. If there are any.)

 

[GarrixianXD]

I think that's a normal thing. (You can provide information from in-verse if you want. At this point, I think it needs trends pointing in, not just from WoG but I also include statements, feats, etc. If there are any.)

It's not about what you think, but how this community and our site treat the practice of using and obtaining WoG (as said before, not permitted). We have guidelines that generally go against the usage of WoG; except for information from Q&A events where we make brief exceptions of, which I've already said before, or if it's scrutinised to be 100 percent accurate which is rarely the case.

Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.

Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.

Do not pester or harass the authors of various works on social media about versus debating or character statistics. They are often bombarded by numerous questions from fans, and thus are rarely interested in giving a serious response. In addition, the statements they give to appease users are often contradictory to the feats in the stories of the works they have written. Thus, it is frowned upon to bother them over these topics.

As for me personally, I'm just outright neutral here; I'm not even sure if the overall thing presented on the OP is actually tier 0 since I don't know anything about tier 0; I only put special surveillance on this thread because on the last discussion, things got outrageously derailed and its my job to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Weaver261]

Here the word "泡" means "bubble". According to @Weaver261's explanation, Yog-Sothoth indicates it's her metaphorical device, followed by "无智无得" meaning "devoid of wisdom and attainment". But as seen, "智" here is similar to the form of "智慧" which is specified to be Yog-Sothoth herself (and lexically both translate to 'wisdom'), but these two words are different. This makes me want to see the scan for "Wisdom" as explained here by weaver:

Honestly, I find it really weird why is this even important in tier 0 part. It's clearly stated in entry 5 that bubbles are something Yog Sothoth likes, that's not what make Yog Sothoth. It comes from her. The same should go for wisdom too as it's listed alongside bubbles in her bio at hobbies list. It's just something she likes, not something that make Yog Sothoth. Yog Sothoth tier 0 comes from transcending descriptions or definitions. Not from wisdom. People see her as wisdom simply because she grants wisdom to them. It is already stated in blasphemous abyss avatar biography that "you may be able to get more wisdom from her". The believer of Yog Sothoth saying "what if the god I believe in is wisdom itself" is followed by that person talking truths which means that person gained wisdom from Yog Sothoth. That's why that person see Yog Sothoth as wisdom. It's even more clear when the same line have "the origin of wisdom" phrase, indicating wisdom comes from somewhere or someone. Wisdom comes from wisdom? C'mon..... it's obvious.

And for wuji stuffs, I have already told u that it's just theory. I am not saying it as it's something stated in game or something. That's just my take. Even without it, tier 0 is already enough. As for the world behind the door having space-time, i've read it again and again and found something interesting.
The wording goes like this, btw I am not chinese so if I made mistakes....I hope GarrianXD fix some along the way.

这里是门后的世界，时空都已在此停滞，唯有智慧尚存。

This is the world behind the door, where time and space have come to a standstill, and only wisdom remains.

In a place where outside of space-time or beyond space-time is the same as where time and space are frozen in a way. If you go from the place where time and space are moving and go outside of it, it's the same as both not moving anymore becuz you are outside of it. In Yog Sothoth's context, it's stated again and again about how it's "outside of space-time" and "beyond space-time". Then it aligns with this idea. I think it's just flowery word of time and space becoming standstill. There're like other statements of Yog Sothoth's power able to create worlds unconstrained by time and space.

 

[Frans_Kadmon]

It's not about what you think, but how this community and our site treat the practice of using and obtaining WoG (as said before, not permitted). We have guidelines that generally go against the usage of WoG; except for information from Q&A events where we make brief exceptions of, which I've already said before, or if it's scrutinised to be 100 percent accurate which is rarely the case.


As for me personally, I'm just outright neutral here; I'm not even sure if the overall thing presented on the OP is actually tier 0 since I don't know anything about tier 0; I only put special surveillance on this thread because on the last discussion, things got outrageously derailed and its my job to prevent it from happening again.

I'm fine with that because it's just expressing my opinion on the rules of the wiki.

Honestly, I find it really weird why is this even important in tier 0 part. It's clearly stated in entry 5 that bubbles are something Yog Sothoth likes, that's not what make Yog Sothoth. It comes from her. The same should go for wisdom too as it's listed alongside bubbles in her bio at hobbies list. It's just something she likes, not something that make Yog Sothoth. Yog Sothoth tier 0 comes from transcending descriptions or definitions. Not from wisdom. People see her as wisdom simply because she grants wisdom to them. It is already stated in blasphemous abyss avatar biography that "you may be able to get more wisdom from her". The believer of Yog Sothoth saying "what if the god I believe in is wisdom itself" is followed by that person talking truths which means that person gained wisdom from Yog Sothoth. That's why that person see Yog Sothoth as wisdom. It's even more clear when the same line have "the origin of wisdom" phrase, indicating wisdom comes from somewhere or someone. Wisdom comes from wisdom? C'mon..... it's obvious.

I'm quite sure I never said it was important in the Tier 0 part. I just suggested that you may provide more detaii informations (because what I disagreed with was regarding having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0) to make it more substantial. Additionally, that was also a request for the feat of this part::

In Yog Sothoth's case, wisdom = omniscience. Wisdom is not a concept but rather an all-knowing existence. Wisdom is just an extension of her. It's the same as bubbles, as they are shown together.

 

[Weaver261]

I'm fine with that because it's just expressing my opinion on the rules of the wiki.


I'm quite sure I never said it was important in the Tier 0 part. I just suggested that you may provide more detaii informations (because what I disagreed with was regarding having "space-time" in the domain of Tier 0) to make it more substantial. Additionally, I requested the feat for this part:

I think you are confused by the way I worded like "wisdom = omniscience. Wisdom is not a concept but rather an all-knowing existence". I'm just trying to say the same thing as I said above. She is not wisdom as a concept like you have seen in other fictions with cosmic entities being conceptual beings that represent something abstract. She is wisdom becuz well that's what she does. She gives wisdom to those who dared enough to seek it. If my wording has confused you, well I am not really good with english. As for wisdom being what she likes, you should check her description scan. I am not really free enough to re upload scans again. Imgur links are broken.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Yog Sothoth in GGZ is not like Yog Sothoth in Cthullu Mytho but that doesn't mean she can't be tier 0. There's nothing that state her avatars being harmed or influenced by something. You have to prove why her avatars are affected by faith system. Even if her avatars are affected by faith system, that won't still debunk tier 0. I have already gave reasons why it's not possible to get influenced by Faith system. Btw you should also give scan of why bubbles are universes. There's no such statement as far as I know.
You should give scans of whatever you are talking here. I have already said in my OP that you shouldn't make claims without proving any scans. You should give what kind of entity governs everything in multiverse. There's no such statement of Yog Sothoth governing countless universes. That's your assumption based on bubbles. Yog Sothoth transcends description and definition which make up everything. That's why she is Tier 0.
Please provid scans when you want to disagree and read the OP and previous thread in advance. We don't want this to be 11 pages long again.

The reason you couldn't find it is that she would mention these "bubbles" only when we had a certain connection.


If you recall the story of Thanatos, there’s a sentence that says:

"The lord of all worlds, who was looking at the universe from the outside, noticed that the universe and the gods she had created were repeating completely meaningless things, and that even time was not passing. Remedying a series of design flaws, the Lord of All Worlds bestowed a basic concept on the operators of the universe. It was death, which means that nothing is eternal."

In this sentence, "the lord of all worlds" is not the same character as the one named Lord of Myriad Gods, but rather Yog-Sothoth, as she is the origin of religion and the one who sowed the seeds that gave rise to the gods while spreading knowledge.


Additionally, another Outer God like Nyarlathotep, aside from causing trouble for Babylon, constantly tries to invade and steal Yog-Sothoth's homeworld every day, even without permission. The place behind the door is her home. We don’t even know for sure if the true form of Yog-Sothoth resides behind that door or if it might actually be the true universe she once spoke about.
Scan


This message is addressed to the staff and others who are unaware of the GGZ storyline:

"The reason I do not consider Babylon as canon is that its original concept was a parallel universe separate from the main storyline and was not incorporated into the main universe, which contradicts the current narrative." Its second concept also portrays it as a parallel universe disconnected from the main plot, having no ties to the Outer Gods or other deities initially. Over time, its scale expanded significantly. Currently, it is overseen by Ares, who serves as the student council president, and the gods featured in Babylon come from various timelines—past or future—depending on the time-limited events during that period. These events do not return, nor are they revisited, making it nearly impossible to find information about them online except through character backstories. This lack of documentation has led to a significant shortage of resources regarding Babylon in GGZ-related discussions, as very few people captured or archived the storyline during those events.

Moreover, Babylon is not limited to deities. It also features characters who have died in the main storyline, such as Kira. I also recall one event where Ling Yi, the creator of GGZ, made an appearance in Babylon. It almost feels like you can encounter nearly everything related to miHoYo's works there, akin to the time-limited events in Honkai Impact 3rd.

I am not overly concerned if you agree with this thread and decide to take action based on it. However, in my opinion, GGZ lacks sufficient feats, and the storyline presented in the thread represents only a small portion of several time-limited events, which cannot be easily accessed anymore. That said, I believe there is a chance you might find related information on Chinese platforms like Bilibili or We
Chat.

 

[Weaver261]

The reason you couldn't find it is that she would mention these "bubbles" only when we had a certain connection.

Still this scan said nothing about bubbles being universes.

If you recall the story of Thanatos, there’s a sentence that says:

"The lord of all worlds, who was looking at the universe from the outside, noticed that the universe and the gods she had created were repeating completely meaningless things, and that even time was not passing. Remedying a series of design flaws, the Lord of All Worlds bestowed a basic concept on the operators of the universe. It was death, which means that nothing is eternal."

In this sentence, "the lord of all worlds" is not the same character as the one named Lord of Myriad Gods, but rather Yog-Sothoth, as she is the origin of religion and the one who sowed the seeds that gave rise to the gods while spreading knowledge

Lord of myriad realms and lord of all worlds are translation of the same entity. They both mean someone who is the lord of multiple worlds. You need to prove how LOMR != LOAW. And there's nothing that suggest Lord of all worlds being Yog Sothoth at all. That's just assumption from your part.

Additionally, another Outer God like Nyarlathotep, aside from causing trouble for Babylon, constantly tries to invade and steal Yog-Sothoth's homeworld every day, even without permission. The place behind the door is her home. We don’t even know for sure if the true form of Yog-Sothoth resides behind that door or if it might actually be the true universe she once spoke about.
Scan

There's nothing that suggest Nyarthalotep invaded her world. It only stated how Nyarthalotep tried to trick Yog Sothoth into giving her this world. They are completely different things.

Moreover, Babylon is not limited to deities. It also features characters who have died in the main storyline, such as Kira. I also recall one event where Ling Yi, the creator of GGZ, made an appearance in Babylon. It almost feels like you can encounter nearly everything related to miHoYo's works there, akin to the time-limited events in Honkai Impact 3rd.

Babylon was once connected to saint Freya highschool and the entrance was destroyed after Otto nuked it. That happened in main storyline. Also we are only scaling who are godheads and outer gods. Ares herself once said many of the godheads hidden powers are more terrifying than will of honkai according to the lore. Moreover this thread is just about Yog Sothoth and she has no interaction with other godheads except for outer god Nyarthalotep. I am sure crossover characters and characters from main storyline do not belong to godhead academies.

Conclusion: All of this is not debunking tier 0 at all. Also shortage of stories and connection to main storyline has nothing to do with current thread. Yog Sothoth has good feats and enough context to back up her tier 0.

 

[Ihsjihahxu]

Still this scan said nothing about bubbles being universes.

She stated herself that what she is holding is an empty universe, which is the same as the bubbles surrounding her. Moreover, her followers can create these bubble universes using the blessings they receive. Therefore, I don’t understand why it wouldn’t be considered a universe.

To add, you mentioned in an earlier thread that bubbles represent the Tao, which is the principle of the Universe. I’m not surprised that she can create universes from the void within these bubbles.

Lord of myriad realms and lord of all worlds are translation of the same entity. They both mean someone who is the lord of multiple worlds. You need to prove how LOMR != LOAW. And there's nothing that suggest Lord of all worlds being Yog Sothoth at all. That's just assumption from your part.

The storyline in Yog Sothoth’s event specifies that she is the origin of the concepts of religion and gods.

She is the creator of countless universes and gave birth to the concepts within those universes when spreading her knowledge.

The Lord of All Worlds is described as the master of multiple worlds, residing outside the universe, and as the creator of mythology gods in the original universe.

I truly cannot see why the Lord of All Worlds wouldn’t be Yog, as their information aligns perfectly. There is no additional storyline indicating that the Lord of All Worlds is another entity. Yog is the most fitting candidate and is also the one active during the era of universe creation.