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Natsu Dragneel Vs. Kenshiro

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Oh yeah I didn't see that. Unless Kenshiro starts with intangibility, he gets blitzed. So it's a stomp again.
 
Either Kenshiro one shots due to severe hax advantage before Natsu blitzes him, or he blitzes without Kenshiro realizing what happened. That's why I said no matter what, the match is not balanced.
 
And I will say that the fact that both can win means it's not a stomp. A stomp is when one character has no way to win even before the match starts.
 
Just gonna say this, but Kenshiro does not start going intangible (i.e Musou Tensei) against anybody when in-character in general.

Much like my rant and explanation to people here on this wikia going "Reinhard throws his spear" argument, Kenshiro has other ways of starting a fight than using his trump cards (or at least one of his trump cards). In the case of Kenshiro, in character he fights using Hokuto no Ken. As in, the usual pressure pointing based attacks of his along with the whole punching thing of his. Pretty sure of all the fights i've seen and read of him from the manga after he obtained Musou Tensei, he does not go intangible right away.

And THIS is why i stay away from fights as much as possible when arguments like the above going "unless he starts intangible..." or the Reinhard thing i mentioned. People here seem to forget our "in-character" conditions.
 
Going by Standard Assumptions, every character is fighting to kill the other, therefore Natsu has no reason not to use his full speed.

Since apparently Kenshiro doesn't use intangibility right away, the speed difference is enough to kill him.
 
What i said about Kenshiro is true, Scarlet. In-character, he doesn't use his Musou Tensei off the bat. Of course if Natsu's first blow doesn't kill him, that's gonna give Ken the motivation to use it and he'll then proceed to kill Natsu in turn.
 
@scarlet Standard battle assumptions means in character. Flaws and all. Also just because natsu is faster doesn't mean kenshiro cannot react to him. Or that hes going to immediately blitz and oneshot. Natsu may be roughly 2-3× faster but you can put fourth arguments to counter that IE: Kenshiro has precog, or the fact that depending on the distance he still has the neccessary time to react to pull off a move

Theres so many good points and counter arguments you can make for both sides but no one seems to be bothered to put effort into debates. Its just a stomp right.
 
I'll agree with Aizen and Cross on this one, Natsu being faster doesn't mean he'll stomp the fight immediately as it begins, and the speed advantage will make it hard for Ken to physically tag him with an attack, however I'll still debate and decide who I think should win in this fight cause that's what debating is all about, the choice of ones words can either make or break any fight really.

So it may might sound to obvious to some, but I'll have to give kenshrio the win for this fight, however hear me out theirs a solid, not stomp reason why he wins.

So in a fight like this Natsu will obviously bull rush forward to Kenshiro and Ken will try to strike him with a pressure point punch or strike, however due to the difference in speed either Ken will not be fast enough to react to the attack or Natsu will dodge the attack easily, either way Natsu is likely going to get the first blow,

however you could argue since Natsu coming from a distance, plus combined with the fact Ken has precog he could block the attack, however it doesn't mean the fight is over just that Ken was able to block Natsu could still strike first and Ken will be staggered.

Now the reasons Kenshiro could win this fight, Not with intangibilty(Kenshiro doesn't immediately go Museo tensei in a fight, he only uses it for emergencies like if he's about to die.) but with Skill and AP.

Kenshrio has a VARIETY of special moves that can help In a fight like this, for example his Toki no aura(fighting ki) can place a omni directional sphere around him that could precisely strike Natsus pressure points or just attack him regardless and that could be the end, however Natsu could try to avoid it if he's careful if you argue that, and go for maybe long range attacks. However given natsus style and attitude during fights since we are using S.B.A, he most likely won't

However Ken himself has long ranged attacks that strike through opponents regardless if they are blocking like tenha kassatsu or itten sho.which if it hits Natsu could end up costing the match.

Theirs also Gento ko Ken which can slice or vaporize on the cellular level with ki so if Ken can land a hit with that on Natsu(which he could with precog and or aim dodging.) than he could effectively cut through Natsu.

Overall I give kenshiro the win 7/10 times due to the advantage in speed and skill and is a overall more experienced and. Tactical fighter when in character. Natsu has the advantage in speed which alone is impressive and could change the outcome. But I still see Kenshiro winning.
 
Any fight can be stomp if you look at stats only, but if you put a solid argument and effort as long as your character has a chance of winning than your preferred character could win..

We need people to put more passion into debating, make it more fun to argue. Not just "A has a big advantage in this stat, therefore he stomps."
 
I didn't know he had omni directional attacks. This goes even more into hax stomp territory.

If Mingo vs Kenshiro and Luffy vs Kenshiro were stomps, I don't see a reason why this isn't then.

And this match was already in their pages when Kenshiro had a much much lower AP and was still removed to to being a stomp.
 
@Grudge: I guess we've gotten to use to how much of a speed gap between each characters on our wikia has that we've gotten to just having such a thought.

Then again, i can still see a fight like this happen as long as the characters are of comparable or even equal stats and the speed gap not being too big....of course that's not taking other factors into consideration like "does the slower character has something to compensate for the slower speed" or "whats the characters starting distance?" and such.

Anyways, i'll let others see how they see fit with this thread.
 
ScarletFirefly said:
I didn't know he had omni directional attacks. This goes even more into hax stomp territory.

If Mingo vs Kenshiro and Luffy vs Kenshiro were stomps, I don't see a reason why this isn't then.

And this match was already in their pages when Kenshiro had a much much lower AP and was still removed to to being a stomp.
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They're only a stomp if you see it as a stomp man, as long as you have at least a chance of winning, use that to your advantage and anything else you have. The Doffy vs Kenshiro fight was a good one and cin did a good job defending doffy, that fight could go either way depending on who's argument you'd agreed with.

In the case of luffy, kenshiro now has every advantage so it's likely a stomp now, but doffy speed equalized was fair game.

In this fight, Natsu has the chance of winning against Ken, you just have to create a argument for it, if either one can beat each other that means the fight isn't a stomp.

Edit: It only looks like a stomp if no one argues for Natsu really. If you think Ken wins than just say Ken wins with your reasons or agreeing with another users points.

If you think Natsu wins, make your reasoning for why he wins. That's all their is too it.
 
Yeah Cin defended Doffy, but when he saw whar Kenshiro could do, he said it's a stomp as Doffy had absolutely no way to win. If someone who's much more versatile than Natsu is stomped, what would that say about Natsu himself? There's really no argument you can say for Natsu here. The speed advantage is there, but he can't one shot Kenshiro.

If two characters that are in the same tier battle and one has 100+ haxes and ways to ignore durability, it's pretty obvious who wins with no contest.
 
Either make a actual debate point or leave the thread. You're just derailing the thread.

You've gone from Kenshiro stomps, to Natsu stomps, to kenshiro stomps. Seriously.
 
Since everyone seems to think this isn't a stomp, can I get some clarification on Kenshiros powers? The ranged attacks he launches, are they visible or invisible? And how does his precog work?
 
LordAizenSama said:
Either make a actual debate point or leave the thread. You're just derailing the thread.

You've gone from Kenshiro stomps, to Natsu stomos, to kenshiro stomps. Seriously.
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Well excuse me, I wasn't rude to you. And I said before that I didn't know that Kenshiro had omni directional attacks.
 
Davidsteel1 said:
Since everyone seems to think this isn't a stomp, can I get some clarification on Kenshiros powers? The ranged attacks he launches, are they visible or invisible? And how does his precog work?
Click to expand...
Davidsteel1 said:
Since everyone seems to think this isn't a stomp, can I get some clarification on Kenshiros powers? The ranged attacks he launches, are they visible or invisible? And how does his precog work?
Click to expand...
A large majority of his attacks are visible as its key(although Hokuto itten Sho is invisible as it utilizes invisible or small pressure attacks to strike pressure points even if they are blocking.)

His best ranged attacks don't have a set ranged but some of them can go several meters forward or if I recall Some of their strong ki punches or some of hokuto ryuuken moves can go almost a kilometer.

HNK fighters combat pre cog works by them being able to see the outcome of how an attack will work and whether or not it will kill them or not.(example would be when raoh watched Rei performed the move and contemplating whether or not to block it. Another Kenshiro dodges an attack from basilisk(wrong name) after watching it come forward to him, than he lets the attack come at him knowing he won't die from it.) it's used only in combat as this how most of them avoid attacks they aren't aware about that could kill them.)
 
@KuuIchigo

I can admit losses when they are fair, example Natsu vs Mingo. He's much more versatile than him.

But this is just not fair. You can't possibly think this match up is fair in any way. Especially since 2 very similar threads with Kenshiro were closed due to being stomps.

Kenshiro is severely haxed for his tier so putting him against haxless characters like him is not a good match up.
 
Well excuse me, I wasn't rude to you. And I said before that I didn't know that Kenshiro had omni directional attacks. </div>

Kenshiros omni direction attacks are his Toki no aura and Shinten rai, they have a relatively small radius and they don't offensively strike, they are defensive by allowing Ken protection from physical attacks or it attacks for him if opponents gets close. However Natsu could avoid getting to close and just think of another plan like long ranged fire attacks. Strategize your arguments man.
 
@LAS

Except those examples are valid. Both are characters with no haxes against someone who has a lot. And an absurd difference in hax when the other character can't compensate is considered a hax stomp.

@Grudge

It's more for his intangibility. If he can remain an undetermined amount of time like that, Natsu can't hit him even with ranged attacks. You closed the Doffy and Luffy threads in basis of being stomps. I'm just curious as to why you think this isn't.
 
@Scarletfirefly like me and cross stated, he only uses that if he's about to die or he's run out of ways to fight. Aizen could take that off for the fight if you feel as though it's a bit unfair, Ken still has other ways to win so it won't affect my argument.

The reason I closed the doffy thread was becasue idk people told me too so I just followed, I initially didn't want to close it cause I didn't view it as a stomp but more of a decisive victory, but everyone kept yelling STOMP so I just closed it out of annoyance. Like I said cin out one hell of an argument.

In the past luffy could have been argued for the fight but I doubted anyone would and I dint feel like arguing and one guys just said its a stomp so I said basically "**** it" and closed it. I would have opened it anytime of someone told me too really. However at this point in time don't think luffy has any advantage over Ken including speed but who knows, someone could remake the thread and place a solid argument to make it not a stomp.
 
Uh cheers Grudge. Sorry I have another question; Hokuten Itten Sho does this have same destructive power his normal techniques do or is it less or more?
 
@ Grudge

And how much can he remain like that? Does it have a limit or something? What kind of AoE does he have? I hope you don't mind my questions, but you are knowledgeable in HnK so...
 
Davidsteel1 said:
Uh cheers Grudge. Sorry I have another question; Hokuten Itten Sho does this have same destructive power his normal techniques do or is it less or more?
Click to expand...
Its destructive in the sense it's a literal uppercut to an opponent, the catch is it can hit an opponents pressure point even if they block the uppercut(raoh did this to souther, if it wasn't for his reverse pressure points he would have died likely.)
 
ScarletFirefly said:
@ Grudge

And how much can he remain like that? Does it have a limit or something? What kind of AoE does he have?
Click to expand...
His Toki no aura is a passive ability, it can go on as long as Kenshiro wants it or until he's all out of energy, it's not considered a powerful ability as most fighters in his universe cancel it out with their own. But the Shinten rai is powerful in the sense when Ken encountered it he had to use Museo tensei to go through it and learn to counter it from within.

However this is a move he has to slightly concentrate and activate as its not a passive ability.

Edit: These are both in a way AOE attacks as they encompass a large radius, as for other AOE attacks. Hokuto ryuuken has several explosive like attacks like anryu tenha or this one other move that is basically a large explosion of ki that encompasses a pretty large area.


Edit: and no I don't mind answering any questions people have for the verse.
 
Natsu because of speed. It's more than enough for him not to get hit by Kenshiro's attacks.

If Natsu starts with a punch, Kenshiro gets hit, gets knocked back and takes quite some damage. Kenshiro tries to hit him and fails due to speed difference again. Natsu follows up with a ranged attacks and either Kenshiro gets hit again and takes more damage due to speed difference, or he goes intangible.

If he does that, Natsu either tries another flame ranged attack or a punch. Both go through Kenshiro. Natsu sees that he can't hit him and keeps his distance until it runs out. In the meantime, Kenshiro can't hit him because he's much faster and Kenshiro's range is way smaller than Natsu's.

I'm voting for Natsu.
 
I am going with Natsu even with Ken precog, I still think Natsu can win with slight speed advantage he has and he should be able beat Ken before he active his killer techniques. In my opinion Natsu wins 6/10 of the times.
 
Hmm, Natsu is several times faster but Ken has his precog that'll judge whether it's necessary to move or not (which he'll likely move) but this is entirely dependant on how effectively his precog compensates for the speed gap, assuming it compensates well enough and he manages to avoid the first blow Natsu in character will then likely engage in hand to hand combat. I'd imagine that Ken would be the superior combatant, but Natsu is still faster so chances are neither will land a blow. But here's where I find an issue, Natsu's style revolves around chaining CQC moves with AOE moves and ranged moves. But Ken from what I've seen has the necessary hax to make everything Natsu does ineffective, along with the versatility to boot. Natsu may land a blow but it is far more likely that Ken will get to him first. So I'd say Ken could win this

As for my own personal thoughts on the question of whether this is a stomp or not, I don't really think this is a stomp, but I do feel it's kinda a mismatch. Both characters can potentially take each other out- not making it a stomp- but at the same time their abilities do not match up, one is a purely physical fighter but the other has an absurd hax advantage.
 
I don't think people realize how much a speed advantage Natsu has here. Irene is Mach 4800, Natsu and Zeref are much superior than that. While Kenshiro is ~Mach 3000.

To put that into perspective, if Kenshiro is a regular human, Natsu is ~2000 times faster than sound compared to him. That's the speed difference this is.

So Natsu hits him several times over before Kenshiro can even think.
 
Rin Rokudo said:
Natsu because of speed. It's more than enough for him not to get hit by Kenshiro's attacks.

If Natsu starts with a punch, Kenshiro gets hit, gets knocked back and takes quite some damage. Kenshiro tries to hit him and fails due to speed difference again. Natsu follows up with a ranged attacks and either Kenshiro gets hit again and takes more damage due to speed difference, or he goes intangible.

If he does that, Natsu either tries another flame ranged attack or a punch. Both go through Kenshiro. Natsu sees that he can't hit him and keeps his distance until it runs out. In the meantime, Kenshiro can't hit him because he's much faster and Kenshiro's range is way smaller than Natsu's.

I'm voting for Natsu.
Click to expand...
See this is an argument right here. Good job

Anyways, while it's true that Ken might have a difficult time initially hitting Natsu, he could strategically follow Natsus attack pattern and think of ahead of his attacks, thanks to his pre cog and a iota to embroiled opponents style of fighting he will be able to figure out natsus fighting style very quickly and think ahead of Natsu therefore giving him the opportunity to strike.

Kenshiro has like I said a passive ki ability that can push back Natsu if he tries to blitz him which will knock Natsu off the ground long enough for Ken to reach him and either grab him or press a pressure point that will disable him.

I should point out, Ken has a very strong resistance against fire, like not even lava can burn his skin, of course natsus Fire is hotter than lava iirc, but coupled with kenshiros Durabilty natsus flame attacks are at a disadvantage here.

I wouldn't say kenshiros range is smaller than Natsus actually, knowing both characters, most of natsus attack focus on close combat(which is Kens forte) and the few moves he has that do have range are about the same as Kens ranged techniques TBH, maybe he has a slightly more range but I wouldn't call it an advantage.

With his skill and brains, coupled with the fact Ken aims for a quick kill in character plus the example Aizen gave about at a distance Ken could react to Natsu, Ken would be able to strike him and win this fight, considering he needs very few hits to best natsu in this fight.
 
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