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Nasuverse: Noble Phantasm Revisions

Im only now noticing Kama's file but....

Why is she MFTL+ in her first key when her first key is just her being restricted?

And if we are seriously ranking somebody based on how often they hold back, I really don't need to explain whats wrong with this
 
Nobody will talk about the feat of og arturia in garden of avalon? It was regular arturia not even lion king or not a boosted verison of her that have os vortigen who was litteraly the great britain (and why this feat is on lancer profile too? It's shoukd be in her regular form)
 
Soo... Imma suggest a bold and possibly heated suggestion... |

Why not separate each work? Fate/Grand Order and Extra series appear to be the only 2 that have the tier 6 stuff.

Just a suggestion lol
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Why not separate each work? Fate/Grand Order and Extra series appear to be the only 2 that have the tier 6 stuff.
Click to expand...
I think the problem would be the fact that it's not only Fate/Stay Night, Grand Order and Extra, but also Strange Fake, Hollow Ataraxia, Redline, Lord El-Melloi and on and on
I mean, even the Visual Novels vs the Deen/UBW Animes would have very differente power levels...
 
Strange fake's best thing is Gilgamesh's crater which would be unique to him and Enkindu

Redline has to progress further for us to see, but that big explosion we saw at the beginning was pretty lack luster.

Fate/stay night just gives us mountain busting statements but no definitive calc's to work with iirc

I haven't gotten into Hollow Ataraxia yet so i can't speak there

Lord El-melloi Case files i think the best Calc is Grays Rhongo so far, but I haven't read the novel

Grand Order has a whole Slew of Calcs for it.

Fate/extra has some interesting stuff from Servant Arjuna's cloud feat to Gawain making a crater both need calc'ed Scaling can be done for extra series from there since we are given a way to do it.

Apocrypha, we have the spartacus feat which seems pretty lack luster tbh still needs to calc'ed and then Karna activating his NP which came out Tier 7

Fate'/Prototype has some feats from Gilgamesh and Proto Arthur but the calc is old and needs checked if its still valid. Edit: Prototype also has a thing for Rider Ozy too

This is all according to what I observed and have seen. i could be missing things in between. perhaps im way wrong too..?
 
I mean, the actual reason we don't split them is because the Servants are the same individuals across all their appearances, so they having different feats for scaling between works is just a series of incosistencies between authors.
 
I edited Saber's Keys, beforehand it was...

Fate Zero/Fate/Unlimited Blade Works

But her strength isn't determined by the route, Saber is Shirou's Servant initially in Fate, UBW, and Heaven's Feel, so I thought it'd make more sense to label the keys by who is her master, that makes the most sense to me

Kiritsugu's Servant/Shirou's Servant/Rin's Servant
 
I've been dead and busy with college.

All I will say is-

5-B for Ea is dumb, I have said so before already. Anti-World has nothing to do with destroying the planet, the reason it even has that Type is it's Reality-shredding, space-time ripping bullshit that wouldn't have AP because it completely disregards durability. It's blast should just be scaled to Excalibur, while it's full power reality-ripping bullshit should have none.

Let's stop comparing Excalibur to most NPs. And Schnee, that scene in First Order of Saber taking her own Excalibur is just inconsistent as hell. Mash needed Martha's help to survive Altera's True Teardrop Photon Ray, an Anti-Fortress NP like Excalibur. And not blocking it with her shield, blocking it with her NP, and she still wouldn't have been able to.

Mash, then, blocking Excalibur completely on her own before she even uses her NP is... dubious as ****, to be frank. Equally so that Saber survived it. Not to mention Excalibur already one shooting shit much stronger than Servants, like Iskander's Divine Bulls and Medusa's 1000 year Old Pegasus. It wasn't even a contest, they got completely erased and overpowered.

Now

What has been discussed, because I am genuinely not sure I'll be able to check everything right now?
 
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@LSirLancelotDuLacl

This is the current scaling and results, feel free to give input, you likely know more than me about this all

A Ranked Anti-Unit NP's: Small City level+ (5.7 Megatons)
  • Based on Lancelot's Arondight matching and stalemating Numeral of the Saint Gawain, who is 3x stronger than Base Gawain
A+ Ranked Anti-Unit NP's: City level (9.5 Megatons)
  • Based on Overloaded Caliburn being stronger than an attack worth 5x the amount of gems Rin used to kill Berserker once
A+ Ranked Anti-Army NP's: City level (38.9 Megatons)
  • Based on Clarent Blood Arthur being able to pulverize of a mountain
A+ Ranked Anti-Fortress NP's: Large Mountain level (1.1 Gigatons)
  • Based on Gray's Rongomyniad Calc
 
Yeah, genuinely don't agree with this.

I actually talked before about not wanting to compare Anti-Units and Anti-Armies, but the material book itself pretty much spells out that both are no different except by area of effect. It's even made more clear because it right after says that, unlike those two, Anti-Fortresses' main difference is that they have much more power in a comparable rank.

Not to mention, this seems to be completely disregarding the Gugalanna Calc, the Ishtar destroying Uruk Calc, the comparison of Santa Quetz' NP to the Yucatan Meteor, etc. Like, did those suddenly disappear?
 
Nobody ever really explained Gugalanna or Ishtar's Calc to me, and I was thought Quetz was 2-A?
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Yeah, genuinely don't agree with this.

I actually talked before about not wanting to compare Anti-Units and Anti-Armies, but the material book itself pretty much spells out that both are no different except by area of effect. It's even made more clear because it right after says that, unlike those two, Anti-Fortresses' main difference is that they have much more power in a comparable rank.

Not to mention, this seems to be completely disregarding the Gugalanna Calc, the Ishtar destroying Uruk Calc, the comparison of Santa Quetz' NP to the Yucatan Meteor, etc. Like, did those suddenly disappear?
Click to expand...
I created a list of things that could be calc'ed and callcs that should get checked since their old with more recent calcs that haven't been discussed much. Would you like me to post it for you?
 
No no, Santa Quetz's NP, which is her dropping a massive gift, and is compared to the meteor drop of the Yucatan Meteorite.

The Gugalanna one is basically Ishtar thinking of using Gugalanna to stomp the Summer Race Singularity event. Mash and Da Vinci say that is too absurd because it is overkill, with Da Vinci specifying it would wipe out the entirety of Connacht. This should be comparable to Ishtar's Second, unused NP, which makes her summon the Bull's Hoove to stomp someone.

Ishtar's calc is this one, where she makes a 20 km deep hole by shooting her NP at Uruk, dropping Tiamat into the underworld. Pulverization was assumed because there's no debris to speak off after the fact, though vaporization was discussed since her NP is shown heating things up enough that it makes lava burst out in an instant (I don't entirely agree with this, but meh, I guess worth mentioning).

Gugalanna's hoove, by the way, is an A+ Anti-Army attack. And Santa Quetz' is a A Rank Anti-Unit.

Arondight really doesn't feel like a good measuring stick either, since it does many things besides boosting Lancelot, and the implication is more so that Lancelot stalled the fight mostly by skill, like Sasaki against the much stronger Saber.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
No no, Santa Quetz's NP, which is her dropping a massive gift, and is compared to the meteor drop of the Yucatan Meteorite.

The Gugalanna one is basically Ishtar thinking of using Gugalanna to stomp the Summer Race Singularity event. Mash and Da Vinci say that is too absurd because it is overkill, with Da Vinci specifying it would wipe out the entirety of Connacht. This should be comparable to Ishtar's Second, unused NP, which makes her summon the Bull's Hoove to stomp someone.

Ishtar's calc is this one, where she makes a 20 km deep hole by shooting her NP at Uruk, dropping Tiamat into the underworld. Pulverization was assumed because there's no debris to speak off after the fact, though vaporization was discussed since her NP is shown heating things up enough that it makes lava burst out in an instant (I don't entirely agree with this, but meh, I guess worth mentioning).

Gugalanna's hoove, by the way, is an A+ Anti-Army attack. And Santa Quetz' is a A Rank Anti-Unit.

Arondight really doesn't feel like a good measuring stick either, since it does many things besides boosting Lancelot, and the implication is more so that Lancelot stalled the fight mostly by skill, like Sasaki against the much stronger Saber.
Click to expand...


Mordred threatens to bust up and obliterate a Mountain in Camelot [1] [2]
Maps of Camelot This is the unmarked map and this is the marked map

Additional Information for the maps
The distance from Ozy's Pyrmaid on the map to camelot is 100kilometers [3]
The fight takes place in the western village iirc?

I think violent frag, or pulv would be good for mordy?

Map scaling is disagreed with.



Arash's NP can split the earth for 2,500 kilometers. [4][5][6] No stated depth so unusable without using some random number.


Nitocris casually sustains a sandstorm that could last for days, weeks, months without end. The distance of it is from Ozy's pyrmaid to Dune's of Dawn
[7][8] [9]
Map scaling.


Servant/Heroic Spirit Arjuna's NP in Fate/Extella Link has a cloud dispersion feat, and this is just the activation of the NP [10]


Excalibur Proto has some 6-C feats that should be looked at. The calcs are old, and who knows what has changed since then. [https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KamiYasha/Prototype_Saber's_and_Gil's_Ap_and_Speed_Calc]



Paul Bunyan is a heroic spirit that scales to Teardrop photon ray [11] [12]

Paul supposedly can also
"Create the Mississippi river with a single blow of her axe"
"a blow from her fist can dig a hole from china"
"can shatter the entire rocky mountain range
[13]


Got calc'ed and was.. lack laster...



Tesla's NP at full power (Though some believe this was boasting, or his NP is Dura Negation with no AP) [14]


Gawain leaving creating a crater in Last Encore from the canon bad end of the game Fate/Extra [15]


Spartacus in the Fate/Apoc manga created a crater with his NP tbh it looks lack luster but i truly don't know [16]


Santa Quetz NP is comparable to the asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs [17]


This is rider quetz in babylon . its a calc. (though i believe some said this is tier 2 quetz but im not sure) [18]
Divine being Quetz not servant quetz


Servant Karna's NP is on par with scorching the earth (whatever that means) [19]

If we yeet 5-B gilgamesh, though i think 5-B range is fine, and the planets tier is unknown. so im fine with yeeting it. we can calc the crater him and Enkindu made.

Forgot this one, but fergus lily drills an island up [20]
 
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Quetz' is unusable. She is still a Divine Spirit when she pulls that off, even if she's a weakened one, and she was using Piedra del Sol, which is EX Ranked and can't really be compared to anything else.

Lower level NPs can scale to Servants, I guess, but I really don't agree to A rank stuff and above being this low.
 
This is what happens when you don't do your research, oh boy, there was a lot I missed

Ugh, I shouldn't have started applying changes, but what's done is done, I honestly don't know what to do from here since all these Grand Order Feats are out of my depth of knowledge

@LSirLancelotDuLacl

If you want to make a new thread or gather knowledgable members and staff to participate in an overlook everything, then that would probably be best, I still want to participate a great deal, I just think I don't have all the info, the Nasuverse has so much stuff in it
 
I do want say I agree with yeeting 5-B planet level AP Gilgamesh

Earth is such a strange thing in nasuverse its like Elder scrolls (Though not on the same scale). The Earth has many layers of reality within it make it almost impossible to give it a proper AP tier. It could be Tier 2, or Tier 1, or some stronger level of Tier 5 because spaital manipulation could be involved? well who knows, point is, Its impossible to determine an AP tier for the planet Earth in Nasuverse.

Though, would planet level range be okay on the scale of earth. or perhaps High 6-A range? tbh idk.
 
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Is not even about Earth being a strange thing, is just that Enuma Elish, or full power Ea blast, is dangerous because it ***** with space-time and reality.

That's Dura Neg no matter how you word it, it has no business having an AP value. Not to mention the fact that Gilgamesh already used it in Hollow Ataraxia, and the world didn't end. Unless someone wants to argue he "held back while using its full power", which is a damn oxymoron, it doesn't line up.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
If you want to make a new thread or gather knowledgable members and staff to participate in an overlook everything, then that would probably be best, I still want to participate a great deal, I just think I don't have all the info, the Nasuverse has so much stuff in it
Click to expand...
Yeah, sorry I haven't been around, I have been mainly focusing on college.

One thing I can recommend you is just to see discussion stuff in spacebattles and Beast Lair for the untranslated stuff. The main issue with Typemoon isn't even that the lore is confusing, 9 times out of 10 is just a bit weird. The real issue is that information is scattered all over the place, and you have to comb through a lot.

Sorry for coming so late and already making you do all that work, that's my bad.
 
Nah, it's fine, real life always takes priority, let's just start again from step 1 and gather all the feats and calcs we can so that we can look at the whole picture, it's my fault for trying to rush out a CRT on a verse as big as the Nasuverse

For example, just calced Spartacus taking on that Meteor, results are sadly not that impressive
 
The big issue is that big AoE stuff in Nasuverse is not very widespread, and not even directly related to strength most of the time.

As an example, Excalibur is among the strongest NPs, but it's AoE is terrible unless you only wanna destroy everything in a straight line because all of it's power is focused at the tip. It isn't even a laser, all the white light behind the tip is just displaced matter and can't even hurt you.

Kazikli Bey is "among the few NPs that can kill 20,000 people" but it has a horrible AP, as each individual stake can't do much damage. Vlad needs the big boost of being in Romania and setting up his territory, but even then it is dangerous because of their numbers, that he can spawn them anywhere, and that he can spawn them inside your body the moment you are prickled once, negging dura.

Brahmastra Kundala is supposed to have an explosion range like a Nuclear Bomb and have much more AoE than most Noble Phantasms, but Siegfried's Balmung can match it, despite having much lower AoE.

As an aside... Almost forgot. There's still Fergus Lily's calc. If people don't wanna scale it to it's normal version, go ahead, but unless we wanna assume that it is suddenly much stronger than the top NPs in the entire series, is just further proof that top tiers are on this level. That and the Dendera Lightbulb being compared to Solar Flares.

Beyond that... only thing that comes to mind is Brynhildr's runes being able to completely blow up Tokyo when she powered them up by sealing off her other NPs.
 
I already talked about it. To quote myself:
There's still Fergus Lily's calc. If people don't wanna scale it to it's normal version, go ahead, but unless we wanna assume that it is suddenly much stronger than the top NPs in the entire series, is just further proof that top tiers are on this level.
Click to expand...
In reference to the other tier 6 NP stuff.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Earth is such a strange thing in nasuverse its like Elder scrolls (Though not on the same scale). The Earth has many layers of reality within it make it almost impossible to give it a proper AP tier. It could be Tier 2, or Tier 1, or some stronger level of Tier 5 because spaital manipulation could be involved? well who knows, point is, Its impossible to determine an AP tier for the planet Earth in Nasuverse.
Click to expand...
I think you are mistaking Anti-World for Anti-Planet here, and mixing it with range/AoE
 
Also, since it technically has to do with an NP-

Let's remove the 2-A from Karna's dura if that's alright. The quote I already put on the other thread has You outright saying Karna would have been hurt by Balmung without using Mana Burst.

Not very 2-A.
 
His have the 2-A durability only as super karna no? (So the one who would get damaged by balmung is not 2-A)
 
My issue with 2-A VS is that according to Fate/GO from what i have seen is that Sefar is supposed to scale above Goetia.

2-A Servant Karna with VS comes from Servant Karna fighting Sefar BUT Fate/Extella Link implies that VS = Goetia's scorching of the earth..

So the scaling... doens't make sense from what ive seen..

AAAANNNNDDDD we have no idea how that fight ends. We never see him fight her we just see him point at her **** Also, some of those "alternate timelines' end up being dead worlds per Emiya's explanation. The end of that fight is completely unkown because we are cut off at the end before you actually fight her. From what ive seen.

the "2-A" Vs should just be for "Living" Karna imo.
 
My issue with 2-A VS is that according to Fate/GO from what i have seen is that Sefar is supposed to scale above Goetia.
Click to expand...
There is nothing said about Goetia in comparison to Sefar, or any of the Beasts either. Not that I remember at least.

Regardless, the only reason Karna has 2-A dura is surviving like... a few seconds (?) from Alter Arjuna's NP. Surviving a few seconds shouldn't earn anybody 2-A, especially when Karna has already been shown doing shit like resisting the erasure of the Moon Cell by sheer willpower or shooting VS at Cu Alter instead of disappearing instantly, like almost any other Servant that gets their core completely imploded.



As for 2-A VS, he has that rating for killing Sefar and being able to kill full power Gods. The issue is, Sefar in the game shouldn't even be 2-A... Sefar has many stages of growth, and she wasn't even close to her final one when the characters fight with her at the end of their routes, Karna's included. You could say "oh but the Moon Cell can't do anything to her!", but obviously the Moon Cell can't do nothing because of her skills!

The entire point of Sefar is that if your attack isn't the most basic ass, unga bunga, raw-power-only sort of blow, it gets absorbed completely and she only gets stronger. If there's intelligence behind what punches her, it does nothing. Guess what happens when the Moon Cell, a goddamn technological device, a literal representation of intellectual design, tries to stop her? Even unga bunga blows get mostly absorbed, but they can at least deal damage. So Vasavi Shakti, being just a brain dead, kill everything it hits, full power attack, worked while the Moon Cell didn't. And what do you know, it fits perfectly with the fact that Excalibur can also kill Sefar too! Sefar can't absorb it, but if she was 2-A, that shit wouldn't tickle her.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
There is nothing said about Goetia in comparison to Sefar, or any of the Beasts either. Not that I remember at least.

Regardless, the only reason Karna has 2-A dura is surviving like... a few seconds (?) from Alter Arjuna's NP. Surviving a few seconds shouldn't earn anybody 2-A, especially when Karna has already been shown doing shit like resisting the erasure of the Moon Cell by sheer willpower or shooting VS at Cu Alter instead of disappearing instantly, like almost any other Servant that gets their core completely imploded.



As for 2-A VS, he has that rating for killing Sefar and being able to kill full power Gods. The issue is, Sefar in the game shouldn't even be 2-A... Sefar has many stages of growth, and she wasn't even close to her final one when the characters fight with her at the end of their routes, Karna's included. You could say "oh but the Moon Cell can't do anything to her!", but obviously the Moon Cell can't do nothing because of her skills!

The entire point of Sefar is that if your attack isn't the most basic ass, unga bunga, raw-power-only sort of blow, it gets absorbed completely and she only gets stronger. If there's intelligence behind what punches her, it does nothing. Guess what happens when the Moon Cell, a goddamn technological device, a literal representation of intellectual design, tries to stop her? Even unga bunga blows get mostly absorbed, but they can at least deal damage. So Vasavi Shakti, being just a brain dead, kill everything it hits, full power attack, worked while the Moon Cell didn't. And what do you know, it fits perfectly with the fact that Excalibur can also kill Sefar too! Sefar can't absorb it, but if she was 2-A, that shit wouldn't tickle her.
Click to expand...
VS is compared to Goetia's "scorching of the Earth" / AAS

and i beleive there is a scaling relationship mentioned in the Olympus lost belt somewhere. for Goetia and Sefar.

ignoring the Tier 2-A part part as it would end up deralling the thread.

karna isn't portrayed as being 2-A in the story or else we'd up with a "Everyone is 2-A scaling chain" because everyone but/except a couple of characters end up fighting Sefar and killing her in the side stories of Extella.

But i did forget about the part that Sefar was still growing stronger with her unique skill.
 
I have a lot of problems with tier 2-A as well, but I have a lot of problems with how extra verse is treated for example living gilgamesh in Extra is a misunderstanding from a mistranslation. Hell even living nero has problems becuase then wed have 2-A everyone.

Anyways VS still is "On par with the scorching of the Earth." Any ideas what that implies besides Goetia?
 
Context would be helpful, but Goetia isn't ''scorching the Earth'', but burning human history if you really got down to the proper definition.
Do you remember the chapter/part of Extella that is said?

And let's forget about ''Living Gilgamesh'', my Odin
It's hard already to explain that Babylon Gilgamesh isn't Caster Gilgamesh
 
LehenDuo said:
Context would be helpful, but Goetia isn't ''scorching the Earth'', but burning human history if you really got down to the proper definition.
Do you remember the chapter/part of Extella that is said?
Click to expand...
Fate/extella link. NP profile I have a picture of it.

Plze9w9.jpg
 
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