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Nasuverse Discussion Board 26

I heard that Nobu Papiyas and Tenka Fubu actually have a limit to how much it can be effective against Divine and Mystery . Is it true?
 
Well... Let's just say it's Matt (seeing a pattern?) arguing with RegisNex about statements of Enuma Elish destroying the world being flowery language or not.
 
Good god. They have to debate about that? Statements and feats clearly show it destroys the world. It's the equivalent of stating 3 color battle in Dies Irae (Merc vs Reinhardt vs Ren) is a bunch of flowery languages. In that case, it can go down to 3-A because basically Mercurius only throws stars and galaxies, while Reinhardt just uses overglorified tanks and cannons to counter it.
 
Anyways, that argument spans 2 threads, it's not just about flowery languages too, it also concerns if Gil used it when alive in the Age of Gods, it may destroy other World Layers as well, and blablabla
 
I've read that entire thread, and that summary really doesn't do the disagreement justice. No one (as far as I recall) was arguing that "destroying the world" was just "flowery language"; they were pointing out that in the Nasuverse, "world" has multiple literal meanings, such that non-figurative use of the word "world" is not necessarily indicative of reference to the planet. Moreover, they argued, with examples, that "destroying the world" was not always used to mean "destroying the whole world".

There was some substantive back and forth in the beginning, but after a certain point, Matt gave up on offering fresh rebuttals to his opponents' counterarguments, maintaining that the quotes he had already shared proved that they were wrong, despite their latest explanations of why that wasn't so going unaddressed (preventing any further progression of the debate).
 
Aren't words not having literal meaning counted as flowery language?

I mean, at least in my book, "World" not meaning whatever your common sense interpret it (The Earth) count as flowery language to me.
 
That's cause Nasuverse has multiple meanings for the word world, so the same common sense if someone used the word world irl wouldn't apply here.
 
World is used a ton of times in the series to signify Gaia. Not the ball of rock in space, but the mass of power that sets the rules of the world and creates the reality marble that lets humans be cozy little ***** and is held in place by Rhongomyniad. It's why Holmes NP doesn't blow up planets but it is Anti-World, he alters the reality of the Reality Marble that makes up the human world to create an answer to his question even if an answer never ever existed.

He even explains it.

"Holmes: A satisfactory example, Miss Kyrielight. The Tower stands at the end of the world, and its administrator wields the lance. The question is, why does the Tower pierce the planet? There is a theory that our world — the human world — is nothing more than one of the textured layers that wrap the surface of the planet, like a carpet. To the planet, this is the consciousness of the intelligent lifeforms that reign supreme. In other words, our physical laws. The "carpet" that maintains the laws of physics is our world. It is stitched to the planet so that it does not peel away. This seems to be the phenomenon called the Tower of the End. It is also not limited to Britain. There are multiple such pillars located throughout the world. One is the holy lance in the hands of the Lion King."
 
The World is not a Reality Marble. The "Marble" part of the name implies someone's will presiding over the effect. In the case of Gaia, it's just "Reality", because that's the natural state of the World. Thus, Anti-World NPs are always some form of Space-Time Manipulation and/or Reality Warping.
 
Except that's not the natural state of the world, it is the "natural" state decided on by the predominant species of the planet i.e. humans. "To the planet, this is the consciousness of the intelligent lifeforms that reign supreme. In other words, our physical laws. The "carpet" that maintains the laws of physics is our world."

As Sherlock put it.
 
What's "common sense at the time" is still the "natural state of the World". There was Gaia, then humans became so dominant that Alaya came into existence to represent that resulting unfluence. The natural state of the Planet is something else entirely, as proven by the Land of Steel and the effects of Enuma Elish's "truth".

Nevertheless, it's not a "Reality Marble", just "Reality". The distinction was a whole thing over in Beast Lair.
 
Reality Marble is a misnomer I admit, but is to illustrate that the state of how reality works at the surface of the planet isn't just something that is, at least on some level. This is not something just about Alaya, is about Gaia altering its state depending what is the dominant intelligent species. I am not saying there is no Earth and no rock whether there is intelligent life or not, but that things like the laws of physics and the surface of the planet as a whole is how it is because Mankind is at the top of the food chain right now.

That widespread influence is "The World" that Anti World noble phantasm affects, and the "Texture" of many that Lopt Laeventeinn is supposed to erase when Ragnarok comes.
 
Also, this might be me diving in over my head, but the entire reason Thaumaturgy is dying in Fate is because it is inherently based off of being unknown (the concept of Mystery), while Humans as a species are based around being reasonable and logical, discovering the cause and order of everything and using logic to define it.

So yes, Humans are able to redefine the laws and physics of something because they are the dominant species. Something that becomes understood by humans no longer retains what was making it special (Mystery) and powerful.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Im getting really tired at times of these needlessly vague explanations for some of the skills and NPs.
Click to expand...
It's much better for you to read the comment of Kinalvin about her NP.

I think it was said in beast lair that most of Meteo's characters is always like this.
 
Tbf, not just Nasu that makes Servants. There are also other writers that make Servants. In fact for Nasu made Servants, their profiles are actually detailed enough compared to some that it's quite clear on what they can do and nots.
 
Screenshot 20191020-141012 Fate GO
Months of salting.
Finally, an SR is in my hands! (I no longer care which SR was it, finally got a Gold Servant after months of saltstorm)
 
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