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Nasuverse Discussion Board 14

I mean something that was inspired from his myth stories, not from his Fate profile mats and such. Like did his myth EVER state even once that he was the fastest, at least maybe of his time?
 
It's in the Illiad. Homer refers to Achilles as 'swift-footed' like below.


swift-footed (¤Ç¤î╬┤╬▒¤é ߢá╬║¤ì¤é pódas ōk├║s; ¤Ç╬┐╬┤-╬¼¤ü╬║╬À¤é pod-arkēs; ¤Ç╬┐╬┤-¤Ä╬║╬Á╬┐¤é pod-ō╠ükeos)
 
Ah, see? Needed that, thanks.

@Rep: Okay see your edited comment. I just needed a source or inspiration that Apocrypha made when Achilles had his NP's introduced including his Dromeus Cometes.
 
@Qliphoth

He's said to be able to fast enough to outrun horses and take down deer.

@Regis

Thanks for the citation.
 
Yeah like that. I just wanted to know if it had some basis seeing as Karna's armor was described, or so I read, as making him invincible to Siegfrieds armor granting him invincibility or at least making him a super tank due to drowning in Fafnir's blood.

Well though that's armor legend to that of speed legend but the same in what basis they had that inspires the NP's they are shown in story or otherwise.
 
Gotta go epic when introducing a legend like Achilles himself.

In other news, Babylonia's coming up next week and that's gonna be PRETTY busy when trying to finish it and THEN get to Goetia. Jesus when the fights come up against the Beasts.
 
I haven't been playing nearly enough lately to have any Servants with high bond levels... The highest I have is one bond 7 and a couple at bond 6, and those are knight classes. I don't want to have to rely on non-story supports since that kind of cheapens the whole deal for me.
 
Work on me, but well gonna bringing it here:

  • Shen Shuai Min Mai (õ╗ÖÞí░ÕåÑÞäê) -- "Sage Decline Death Pulse" -- is a poison manufactured from the roots of the Tree of Fusang, distilled with Yin Qi.
  • Shen Huo Min Mai (õ╗Öµ┤╗Õæ¢Þäê) -- "Sage Vitality Life Pulse" -- is a medicine manufactured from the leaves of the Tree of Fusang, infused with Yang Qi.
  • Koyanskaya came to the Chinese Lostbelt in order to preempt the possibility that Chaldea might obtain a legitimate antidote to her poison. However, the antidote in question is derived of the Tree of Fusang, which is within the Emperor's control. Ergo, in the event that the poison doesn't immediately kill Guda, a search for the cure would've set Chaldea on track to come into conflict with Hinako and the Emperor.

    From the fact of her behavior, Holmes deduces that Koyanskaya wasn't in fact certain that her poison would absolutely kill Guda; or that Guda wouldn't be able to somehow survive long enough to obtain an antidote. If the poison truly guaranteed death, there would be no need for her to take any further actions.
  • In case I forgot to mention, Koyanskaya poses that Guda isn't actually protected from the poison by her contract with Mashu. Mashu's protection, she believes, only prevents Guda from experiencing discomfort. The poison acts in such a manner that Guda is nevertheless going to die if she doesn't obtain an antidote.
  • As a general clarification to what was discussed last time regarding Hinako's capabilities:

    To a normal human being who is educated regarding the relevant mechanics (or not), a Servant might seem amazing, as they're justified within the very Laws of the Human Order. The World itself allows for special exceptions that defy the Common Sense.

    However, Servants are ultimately bound by the Law of Consumption. A Nature Terminal of the likes of a True Ancestor is not. That is, a Servant is in the broad strokes still a finite existence, regardless of their relative standing of Mystery.

    To put this into terms of more immediate relevance, the First Emperor expends as if there were no end to his resources. However, the absence of an end is merely an illusion generated of the fact that he alone does not consume the resources of the planet at a sufficient rate to see the bottom of the well.

    Comparatively, a True Ancestor is a being that operates upon the Law of Cycles, and qualifies as the same existence as the planet. To Akuta Hinako, there is no bottom of the well, because there isn't really a well.
  • Xiang Yu has as part of his fundamental features the capacity to act as a kind of restricted version of Laplace's Demon -- that is, the capacity to account for all observable phenomena within his immediate environment and establish probabilistic projections for multiple streams of oncoming events, based on different hypothetical circumstances.

    After being permitted to approach him by the Emperor, Hinako initially goes out of her way to confirm that he can indeed perform such an action -- and at his assent, asks him to model a hypothetical timeline of his likely behavior based on conditions that she lays out. Ergo, when he asks her of the Xiang Yu of the Greater History, rather than narrating a sequence of events for him, she has him model a sequence of events within his own mind, based on his own heuristics.

    The primary directive that the First Emperor imposed upon Xiang Yu was not a duty to the throne of the Qin Dynasty or of any particular emperor. The Emperor designed unto Xiang Yu an ultimate devotion to the condition of "peace beneath the Heavens." The starting condition of the Xiang Yu of the Greater History, then, was the death of the First Emperor and the corruption of the remnants of the Qin Dynasty.

    Given such such a condition, Xiang Yu would have initially annihilated the Qin himself. Then, in the anarchy that subsequently emerges, he would seek out a person with the capacity to unite the land beneath their banner.

    In the Greater History, the fundamental problem was that Xiang Yu's selected candidate for the seat of the Emperor -- Liu Bang -- didn't possess the tenacity to thrive as a leader early on; or the immediate capacity to unite "all that lies under the Heavens." Thus, so as to create the conditions that would permit Liu Bang to fulfill his potential, Xiang Yu established himself as a warlord, and propagated the eradication all of Liu Bang's military opponents -- spreading the fires of war and destruction so as to restrict the sphere of viable territory to a limited area within the capacity that Liu Bang could manage.

    As Hinako lays out condition after condition -- the circumstances of the Greater History that Xiang Yu would've had to address -- gradually, the image emerges within his mind of a version of himself who acted as the necessary evil -- "the Demon Lord" whose actions fomented the rise of the Han Dynasty.

    In essence, the Xiang Yu of the Greater History was Ancient Chinese Kiritsugu.
  • Incidentally, Xiang Yu is described as the "Regenerationn" of a certain artifact created of the Shang Dynasty sage arts. If Holmes and da Vinci are correct that the Emperor in fact came across the wreckage of Nezha, it may even the case that Xiang Yu is a direct remodeling of Nezha.
  • Presuming that the Emperor's conflation of True Ancestor with Zhenren validly implies that the oriental Immortals / Sages were in fact True Ancestors, it may be the case that the Sage Arts and Oriental Alchemy can be understood as "techniques passed by the True Ancestors unto the humans."

    Breathing & Walking and related techniques may therefore be as "imitations of the Nature Terminals' capabilities."
  • Xiang Yu was originally designed not as a combat unit, but as an administrative unit. It is only on account of the wartorn history of the SIN Empire that his chassis was so extensively modified for combat. In practical terms, however, his future-anticipation capabilities find their most effective use on the field of battle.

    For the sake of expanding the territory of the Empire of SIN, Xiang Yu journeyed to Europe, to Africa, to the New World -- and thus, he states, the blood that he's spilled far exceeds the tragedy wrought by the Xiang Yu of the Greater History.

    But the battles he fought for SIN have at least obtained for him the faith of the Emperor. Comparatively, the Xiang Yu of the Greater History was recorded only as a villain. Hinako gives that within the Greater History, not a single person could properly comprehend his actions.

    To this, Xiang Yu replies, "Nay, Yu. That would be incorrect. Does not the Maiden Sage that stands now before me comprehend the Xiang Yu that existed in that history?"
  • Xiang Yu comprehends that as of the place and time wherein his analogue perpetrated his duty, there was in fact another inhuman existence who couldn't obtain acceptance. The Consort Yu and Xiang Yu of the Greater History were creatures alike in their solitude, who could only find company within each other.
  • Observing the Capital from the exterior, Holmes gives that the lack of obvious residential blocks would suggest that civilians aren't in fact vast in population. The city walls are furnished primarily to service the rocket-propelled containers used to distribute drugs to the outlying farming villages.

    The entire civilian population of the Capital is dedicated to those arts and cultural activities denied to the farming villages; literacy exists. Naturally, all of the artwork that the citizens of the Capital produce is devoted to praise of the Emperor -- producing works of extreme skill and finesse, even as they burn out their bodies in the creation of such, under living conditions that are distinctly miserable. Their sleeping quarters are coffin-like beds within the ground; and the city streets are perpetually obscured from the sunlight.

    The sole individual who can derive enjoyment from the fruits of the artisans' labor is the one existence who qualifies as a "human" -- the First Emperor.
  • Koyanskaya gives that the Emperor does indeed love his people -- in the manner that one might love their pets. The entirety of the Capital is, in her words, akin to a cat tower in a cat cafe.

    She again reiterates that she hates humanity above all else -- but humans in her mind are as arrogant creatures who arbitrarily act as they like, motivated solely of desire. Therefore, she cannot consider the people of SIN as human, being that they live their lives absent of thought -- unable to muster even a single shred of anxiety.

    She considers the people of SIN as an insult to animals.
  • Qin Liangyu gives that her home was in the past annihilated by a Star of Ill Omen.

    Zhang Xianzhong, the self-proclaimed "King of the Great Xi," incited her village to rebel against Emperor. The villagers bought into his rhetoric, and made to betray the SIN; and so, the Emperor cast down a Star, eradicating the region. Zhang Xianzhong was somehow able to escape, and continued to incite rebellion elsewhere.

    In Qin Liangyu's view, it would have been the villagers themselves who were in the wrong. Rather than quietly living and enjoying the lot that they had been born unto, they were led astray by fantasies of a different, "better" life -- and so turned their backs upon the boundless luxury afforded to them by the Emperor's mercy.
  • Qin Liangyu gives that the Greater History is a world where every last person claims their own justice; their own truth. In a land of a million contradicting truths, she says, there can only be conflict without end.
 
Qin Liangyu said:

How many innocents; how many children there perished every single day to the calamities of war? Was there ever an end to the tragedy? A single solution that wasn't merely a spark to ignite a subsequent conflict?"
"We have here attained victory. We have here attained a world without war -- a peace eternally unbreaking. My husband -- my brothers -- willfully blinded themselves to such; devoted themselves to the calamity of war, and so perished. It is across their corpses that we've advanced; that we the Empire of SIN have grasped the peace of the present."
"Therefore, I shall not be led astray by pretty words -- by empty rhetoric of some formless bliss. I shall trust in the bliss that we have ourselves grasped by our own hands, by our own actions.
~ Qin Liangyu​
EDIT: Because I forgot to mention some things.

  • Hinako greatly dislikes revealing "the face that she wears as a combatant."

    Wielding the power of a True Ancestor, she could really destroy Chaldea at any time she chooses. As such, Holmes hypothesizes that their next encounter with her should be the last, regardless of who wins or loses. He poses, however, that there is a definite inclination on her part to protect the Lostbelt; and so, in the circumstance that they are able to approach the Tree of Fantasy, Hinako will likely appear as a final line of defense.

    da Vinci gives that it's a good thing that Akuta Hinako isn't a fan of combat. Given such a circumstance, Mashu hypothesizes that if Chaldea does in fact encounter her again, there's a good chance that the Tree of Fantasy is concealed somewhere within her vicinity.
  • The human form of Akuta Hinako isn't merely a disguise. It's a reduced state, vulnerable to injury. This is exhibited during Chaldea's final fight against Gao, when Koyanskaya detonates part of the prison.
  • The Emperor apparently isn't willing to risk orbital bombardment near the Capital.
  • The stealth device da Vinci prepared wasn't created with batteries to spare. Originally, it was supposed to rely on the Shadow Border for energy charging. Thus, Chaldea cannot use it indefinitely in the absence of such. This becomes a problem when they begin to mount their infiltration of the Capital, as the Emperor's observation will permit the Imperial Army to respond in real time. They really only have a single chance to get inside, as they don't have the manpower or the material resources for another attempt.
  • Though, it doesn't really matter in the end, because Gordorf accidentally breaks the device.
  • Jing Ke departs from the party because she's overpowered by a need to complete what she set out to do, some 2000 years ago.

    The primary force's press toward the hypothetical position of the Tree of Fusang will serve as distraction, while she attempts to assassinate the Emperor. In the circumstance that the Emperor turns his attention to her, the primary force should have an easier job of obtaining a sample of the Tree of Fusang from which to manufacture an antidote for Guda.

    In any case, Guda tells Jing Ke not to die, but Jing Ke refuses to make a promise. She states that she doesn't know if she can succeed in her assassination, but as a Heroic Spirit, it's an integral part of her legend that she won't return.

    (Or, more to the point, it's an integral part of her legend that she failed to perform the act, and got killed for her trouble -- so, if all things align with legend, she's bound to fail ... ?)

    But she says that she'll try her best.
  • Guda intentionally allowed Gordorf to use the dose of antidote that Koyanskaya was carrying with her, which was enough only for one person.
 
Don't forget this quote

Da Vinci: What with that repeated use of powerful technique....!? No, she doesn't have the concept of magic energy storage in the first place. She doesn't use magic energy stored inside her body, she absorbed inexhaustible mana from this world itself to use! That's a True Ancestor, incarnated Elemental. No, it's Chinese origin True Ancestor! Fighting her is the same as fighting a tsunami or hurricane itself!

Seems to be similar to Planet Backup.
 
According to Mizukume on BL

"Holmes said that Qin's saint graph is "high" class, and if it's pan-human history, his saint graph would correspond to a Grand servant. But he doesn't know why Qin is Ruler class instead."

QSH seems really op.
 
If QSH becomes so OP, then pretty much the fiigure from Xian dynasty will be too OP (Yu the Great, Zhuan Xu, Gong Gong).

Well, waiting his profile alongside Hinako, Xiang Yu and Gao then, also Ivan is not out yet?
 
Thanks for the info dumping, Vel. Appreciate it 😀

Yeah there's been plenty of new studf to learn here and there and holy crap it's not even a week since QIN LB was released lol

Btw, did anyone see that extended trailer of the LB as well? Man did that show even more like Qin Liangyu fighting Nehza or Red Hare and Mash running up to face Xiang Yu. It was sick.
 
I waiting Hinako profile so i can make Shirou vs Hinako lel.

Comparing to LB2, LB3 have lot's of stuff who get translated and getto, and it's not even a week lmao.
 
Pretty much!

Hinako's going to be a while as is the other profiles. Ever's going to be doing the most as he'll be doing Qin Shi Huang (or at least the one we got of this LB) and Hinako in a collab with Ram + his solol part of doing Xiang. Ram's got Qin Liangyu and Tama Vitch, though latter will need a lot more time or something (ex skills, NP, etc.)

I got Gao and Red Hare and...I think that's everyone introduced?
 
I want doujins of Liangyu too already as well, and everyone knows that's bound to happen lol.

I'm expecting Shi Huang to get a few or several down the line.

@Ram: Right, that version of Assassin Li.
 
A sum of small pocket translations on LB3. Some on Reddit are just straight up fake so I'm hopeful that these ones are more trustworthy. That said, everyone does seem to agree that these ones are more viable than others. :)

<Emperor> "But of course. The form I here assume is the perfection of Man -- the Zhenren who is as the sole heritor of the Truth of the Imperishable; who has exceeded the dichotomy of Yin and Yang, and conquered Death. That is I!"

Exceeded dichotomy of the Yin and Yang? *Gasp* 1-A emperor confirmed? xD

-The emperor, compared to the other kings who were 'Monsters beyond the rules of men', Qin is a 'Man beyond the rule of Men'. In other words, he's the pinnacle of humanity.

-Also, they expand a bit more on True Ancestors. In comparison to Qin Shi Huang, whose power may seem like a well with infinite water, he's just going through his resources so slowly that it just gives off the illusion of infinite. For Akuta, the well isn't there at all and she's able to actually draw infinite power.

-Qin still hates Confucianism. Go figure.

-The gods of the orient are bunrei of the tree of Fusang. As the Tree of Fantasy uses the Fusang tree as a seedbed, it is possible for Hinako to possess it through the abandonment of her own ego

-<Mashu> "-- heat signature within the interior of the Tree of Fantasy, rapidly rising -- gravitational shifts consistent with space-time stratification, confirmed ... ! Additionally, a vast amount of gamma radiation detected ... ! This is ... these cosmic ray signatures are ... !"

<da Vinci> "Mashu -- pass the observational data from the Ortenaus to me as well! -- or rather, what in the world -- !? A facsimile!? A miniature!? Or is it actually connected!?"
"Either way, one thing's for certain! That right there is a galaxy! There's a cosmos within the Tree of Fantasy!"

<Holmes> "Indeed. As distinct from the Trees of Russia and Norden, this is a Tree of Fantasy that has come to flower."
"Within the hollow of this great Tree from the age of myths lies a somewhere that isn't here. You might say that it connects to a World that isn't ours, but -- there exists within that Tree a cosmos known to us. What such a thing could mean is as of present yet a mystery."
"But we haven't the leisure to delve into this at present. An existence that carries such energy bears now its fangs at us! The battle continues, Guda! That Tree is not a thing that can be permitted to exist upon this planet!"

They destroyed a freaking galaxy. No special tricks or anything besides Qin fighting besides them. How in the world they could destroy a galaxy without being able to harm the first tree is beyond me.
 
Should prob wait for more info on how these things work before doing anything. Though I can actually see the Aliens Gods being Galaxy considering how they presumably made these things and their prob top tier.

Though we may get planet level servants from this considering how a single one of these is suppose to overwrite the entire planet with the Lostbelt history. It not like we dont already have planet level servants Gil, Karna and Mash via durability. Then there the Arjuna calc which was previously thrown away as an outlier.
 
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