Naruto's small black balls downgrade

[KingogKings777]

Simple and maybe easy. TSB should have the Possibly Space-Time Manipulation removed and should have power negation downgraded to limited power negation seeing as it could not nullify Kamui which is a space time ninjutsu which proves the statement of them negating all ninjutsu false.


Kamui listed as ninjutsu and it working on the so called power negating tsb.

Agrees - Damage3245, Deceived3596, BrackishBrineBroth, Theglassman12, Aernasilver, 1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void(agrees with space time removal), IMadeThisOn8-1-2017, AKUTO123, TFO (agrees with power nerf), Lynieryz, Duedate8898 (weakness/limited power null)

Neutrals -

Disagrees - 1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void(disagrees with power nerf), Stryker861, Godernet, TFO (disagrees with space time manip removal)

 

[Ped2018]

Simple and maybe easy.

My Brother in Christ, This is Naruto we talking about.

 

[KingogKings777]

My Brother in Christ, This is Naruto we talking about.

They act like it's tough all you got to do is turn off brain cells to win.

 

[Arceus0x]

Ayo didn't know Naruto had sus stuff like that

 

[Damage3245]

The "Possibly Space-Time Manipulation" comes from them being similar to Kaguya's Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb, but even if the regular TSO's were hypothetically capable of creating a new dimension, no user of them has shown the knowledge of being able to do that.

I wouldn't have a problem with that bit being removed.

 

[Deceived3596]

Seems fine.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Would the fact that Minato is also able to teleport the TSB with his flying Raiji technique also be considered an anti feat for the Power null and Space-Time Manipulation since that's also a Space-Time ninjustu or does it show that TSO's just can't negate Space-Time Manipulation specifically

 

[KingogKings777]

The "Possibly Space-Time Manipulation" comes from them being similar to Kaguya's Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb, but even if the regular TSO's were hypothetically capable of creating a new dimension, no user of them has shown the knowledge of being able to do that.

I wouldn't have a problem with that bit being removed.

Also Kakashi believes he could teleport it away if it was smaller.

 

[Stryker861]

How would tso even neg kamui. Kaumi isent even a physical ninjutstu so this doesent make much sense to me

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Agreed with the op. ST manip seems like it's reaching.

 

[Theglassman12]

looks fine to me.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Sure, removing space time can be done. But power negation stays the same

 

[Aernasilver]

 

[Stryker861]

As long as power null dosent get touched i can agree with removing st manipulation

 

[Aernasilver]

But it can’t null space-time jutsu.

If you’re gonna say that can’t null it because it’s not physical then the black balls would have a weakness not being able to null non-physical things.

Edit: But that is not the case cause it can null fire and air jutsus for example.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

As a fan, I think it's fair.

 

[theultimate5105]

But it can’t null space-time jutsu.

If you’re gonna say that can’t null it because it’s not physical then the black balls would have a weakness not being able to null non-physical things.

Edit: But that is not the case cause it can null fire and air jutsus for example.

Or it just can’t null space-time ninjutsu, which is the only thing it has failed to null, also Kamui is weird in that it affected a portal
Fine with Limited Powernull if it specifies they cannot null Space-Time Ninjutsu

 

[Stryker861]

But it can’t null space-time jutsu.

If you’re gonna say that can’t null it because it’s not physical then the black balls would have a weakness not being able to null non-physical things.

Edit: But that is not the case cause it can null fire and air jutsus for example.

I meant that tso had nothing to nullify in the case of kamui. If im not mistaken they nullify the chakra from ninjutstu typically. Kamui dosent launch any chakra like a regular jutsu, it just transports things by warping the area around it

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Agree, it never even made sense back then since it was mostly back scaling from the ETSB which never should've passed in the first place given the difference between the two.

 

[KingogKings777]

I meant that tso had nothing to nullify in the case of kamui. If im not mistaken they nullify the chakra from ninjutstu typically. Kamui dosent launch any chakra like a regular jutsu, it just transports things by warping the area around it

So it should be limited power null since it can't nullify space-time ninjutsu and the justification for it being able to mess with space-time should be removed.

 

[KingogKings777]

Would the fact that Minato is also able to teleport the TSB with his flying Raiji technique also be considered an anti feat for the Power null and Space-Time Manipulation since that's also a Space-Time ninjustu or does it show that TSO's just can't negate Space-Time Manipulation specifically

I guess it would since it can't negate the jutsu being used.

 

[Godernet]

this looks fine.

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I can see why space time shouldn't appear as it was a featless statement, but power negation I can't agree with, kamui is a space time ninjutsu, it's a portal the TSU don't actually "touch" anything the portal is not an obstacle that would be nulled

 

[TFO]

I agree with Limited Power Negation. TSB’s have only shown negating abilities it directly comes in contact with. Kamui & FTG have no physical form to interact with which is why those abilities weren’t negated.

I disagree with removing the Possible Space Time Manipulation. The TSB’s are literally compared to Kaguya’s ETSB with the only difference being size. Having that ability has no bearing on it not negating Space-Time Ninjutsu. Different applications.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I agree with Limited Power Negation. TSB’s have only shown negating abilities it directly comes in contact with. Kamui & FTG have no physical form to interact with which is why those abilities weren’t negated.

I disagree with removing the Possible Space Time Manipulation. The TSB’s are literally compared to Kaguya’s ETSB with the only difference being size. Having that ability has no bearing on it not negating Space-Time Ninjutsu. Different applications.

Actually you might be right

Space-Time Manipulation (Can harm Limbo clones from another dimension and can grab portals that go to other dimensions)

Naruto manage to hit Madara's limbo with his staff that is actually a goudoudama with a different shape

I guess kamui just works in a completely different way

 

[Godernet]

Actually you might be right

Naruto manage to hit Madara's limbo with his staff that is actually a goudoudama with a different shape

I guess kamui just works in a completely different way

Sasuke says that Six Path Senjutsu is what causes the wound not necessarily the TSO.

You could argue that Six Paths Senjutsu has Spatial Manipulation since Limbo does reside in another dimension. This might make sense tbh, since SOSP Naruto was able to physically touch one of Kaguya's Space-Time Gates.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

If you check the profiles you would see that Naruto already has Spatial Manipulation for interacting with Limbo Clones and Kaguya's portals

 

[Godernet]

If you check the profiles you would see that Naruto already has Spatial Manipulation for interacting with Limbo Clones and Kaguya's portals

just saw that thank you

Space-Time Manipulation (Can harm Limbo clones from another dimension and can grab portals that go to other dimensions)

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Always check the profiles

 

[Godernet]

With that in mind, I'm neutral leaning towards disagreeing with removing possibly space-time manipulation since TSOs are inherently made of all five nature types, yin-yang release and Six Paths Senjutsu.

 

[Stryker861]

May change my position to fully disagree

 

[AKUTO123]

Agree with op

 

[KingogKings777]

Votes have been updated.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Votes have been updated.

Call people who disagree cowards is insulting you should take it

 

[Damage3245]

Call people who disagree cowards is insulting you should take it

From what I can tell, that's only being used for the "Neutral" votes and there are none of them in the OP.

But I do agree that the word "coward" should be removed from the OP, even though it was intended as a joke.

 

[KingogKings777]

From what I can tell, that's only being used for the "Neutral" votes and there are none of them in the OP.

But I do agree that the word "coward" should be removed from the OP, even though it was intended as a joke.

It has been removed.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Even Minato hypothesized that Kamui would work on the TSOs based on his own experience with them, and the information gleamed from the Third and Second Hoes.

But wouldn't this also work just as a note in all the TSO users' Weakness Section that the TSOs' are susceptible to Space-Time Ninjutsu (Manipulation) or is adding Limited to Power Null dead set?

 

[KingogKings777]

Even Minato hypothesized that Kamui would work on the TSOs based on his own experience with them, and the information gleamed from the Third and Second Hoes.

But wouldn't this also work just as a note in all the TSO users' Weakness Section that the TSOs' are susceptible to Space-Time Ninjutsu (Manipulation) or is adding Limited to Power Null dead set?

This is what it is labeled as on the profiles.

Power Nullification (The Truth Seeking Balls negate and erase all Ninjutsu they come into contact with, which includes energy and elemental based attacks, Edo Tensei, and Dust Release to name a few, with the exception of those imbued with natural energy)

But with the scans in this thread it proves the statement used to grant it power nullification false.

That all ninjutsu are being nulled since it can't null space time ninjutsu even with the tsbs having "space-time manip". TSBs still have power nullification it should just be called limited since it has a weakness that isn't just natural energy.

Limited Power Nullification (The Truth Seeking Balls negate and erase all Ninjutsu they come into contact with, which includes energy and elemental based attacks, Edo Tensei, and Dust Release to name a few, with the exception of those imbued with natural energy and space time ninjutsu)

Though I'm curious if this would mess with TSB's EE since the EE is listed as the following.

Existence Erasure (Can erase Ninjutsu, people, space-time, and matter)

Edit: There is also Guy bending them when attacking Madara.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Though I'm curious if this would mess with TSB's EE since the EE is listed as the following.

Just remove the Space-Time thing since that seems to come from scaling to the ESTO

Edit: There is also Guy bending them when attacking Madara.

Shear Speed Space-Time Bending Kick