Naruto (War arc) vs Ji Ning

[YoutubeForKing]

Also mind you the average height of mountains in japan is 1500-2000 meters so kurama could be double the size I said he was at first, making it even harder for Ning to locate and kill him.

 

[Rikimarox2]

So which one is it? Even Narutos profile states that "Ehh we're not sure either".

It states both type 2 and 3, and says that it is inconsistent (which is weird to list on the profile), which one do we usually use on VS threads?

 

[theultimate5105]

How would it destroy Nings Danmaku shit when it's much stronger than Naruto? Like the scaling chain for Ning is absolutely absurd. Not to mention he has AP amps as well.

Naruto slaps away 321 gigatons With ease

Thats not even mentioning the possibility of using soulshaker art, which could one shot Naruto via shattering his soul.

Naruto is surrounded By a avatar hundreds of meters at Minimum

Or the fact that no clone could tag him due to his nimble footwork and extreme ease at dodging Danmaku shit.

Clones have all of Narutos senses and they all can spam attacks on their own. Also dodging danmaku is different from dodging thousands of opponents

Or the fact that large enemies were never a problem for Ning.

yeah he can’t harm Naruto unless he hits the small area that Naruto is inside of

Or the fact that the chances of him getting distracted, nevermind for 5 to 10 seconds, is just extremely unlikely due to the fact he can split his mind, and can stay focused enough to the point he can control 729, all of which are extremely hard to control and needs him to concentrate his mind.

Naruto can form thousands of clones

Also don't forget he can just summon his lotus forcefield upon Naruto and just grind him to ash.

sounds like AP which does not work and proof he could summon it through the Kurama avatar

 

[theultimate5105]

So which one is it? Even Narutos profile states that "Ehh we're not sure either".

It states both type 2 and 3, and says that it is inconsistent (which is weird to list on the profile), which one do we usually use on VS threads?

Bijuus are shown to vary sometimes from hundreds of meters to kilometers in size

 

[YoutubeForKing]

How would it destroy Nings Danmaku shit when it's much stronger than Naruto? Like the scaling chain for Ning is absolutely absurd. Not to mention he has AP amps as well.

Thats not even mentioning the possibility of using soulshaker art, which could one shot Naruto via shattering his soul.

Valid but sus on the soul shattering.

Or the fact that no clone could tag him due to his nimble footwork and extreme ease at dodging Danmaku shit.

Or the fact that large enemies were never a problem for Ning.

Or the fact that the chances of him getting distracted, nevermind for 5 to 10 seconds, is just extremely unlikely due to the fact he can split his mind, and can stay focused enough to the point he can control 729, all of which are extremely hard to control and needs him to concentrate his mind.

Also don't forget he can just summon his lotus forcefield upon Naruto and just grind him to ash.

The being ning fought was not even a quarter of the size of kurama avatar. Also that army combined is not the size of Kurama or his attacks


Dodging danmaku is not the same as doding AoE attacks with Town-Mountain levels of range.

Your forgetting naruto can litterally manipulate where he is inside of kurama, with equal speed he isn't gonna speed blitz and the only time naruto has been tagged inside kurama from an enemy human size was when he was speed blitz and his form was dozens of times smaller.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

It states both type 2 and 3, and says that it is inconsistent (which is weird to list on the profile), which one do we usually use on VS threads?

Well if were not being biased and using them at their full potention, kurama avatar would be the size of mountaints in japan (1500-2000 meters)

 

[YoutubeForKing]

A lot of arguments I am seeing is under the assumption that Ning can close the distance and tag naruto, Nings range is "several hundred meters with his most powerful attacks so like 4-8 hundred" Mean while just to hit kuramas head which is where naruto would start off in he has to reach 2.5 - 5x his top range (And thats with his most powerful attacks so im not sure if he can spam).

He'd have to do this while naruto inside the avatar is actively moving to evade.

He'd also have to deal with the naruto clones who have more Range/LS than him aswell

And dont forget ma and pa who will put him under a genjutsu if he take too long.


Honestly the odds here are just stacked in naruto's favor with only 2 valid ways he might actually kill naruto (3 if you include the soul shatter but thats sus as hell since their needs to be a huge ap gap and its unquantifiable how much stronger Ning is than Naruto)

 

[speedster352]

Well if were not being biased and using them at their full potention, kurama avatar would be the size of mountaints in japan (1500-2000 meters)

Why is this a debate Naruto activates sage modes spams clones and attack and get a biju bomb charged up and fires it or ma and pa land the genjutsu

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Why is this a debate Naruto activates sage modes spams clones and attack and get a biju bomb charged up and fires it or ma and pa land the genjutsu

Well their main argument is the AP gap. Tho most of the time they are using forms way into the novel that vsbattles has not added so a lot of that stuff cant even be mentioned into this fight

 

[theultimate5105]

Well their main argument is the AP gap. Tho most of the time they are using forms way into the novel that vsbattles has not added so a lot of that stuff cant even be mentioned into this fight

The AP gap isn’t even as large as some people here think
Naruto slapped away 321 gigatons and his charged attacks will 1 shot

 

[YoutubeForKing]

The AP gap isn’t even as large as some people here think
Naruto slapped away 321 gigatons and his charged attacks will 1 shot

Ik, and his soul shatter depends on a huge ap gap so i'm not even sure if it will work here

 

[Planck69]

Naruto slaps away 321 gigatons With ease

So what, he moves up a bit on Ning's oneshot chain?

Naruto is surrounded By a avatar hundreds of meters at Minimum

Clones have all of Narutos senses and they all can spam attacks on their own. Also dodging danmaku is different from dodging thousands of opponents

He surrounds himself in a Waterflame Lotus and focuses on the massive fox avatar in front of him while grinding any clones that get close and blocking their attacks. Like, spam isn't helping much of anything when Ning starts with a massive physical advantage.

yeah he can’t harm Naruto unless he hits the small area that Naruto is inside of

Naruto can form thousands of clones

sounds like AP which does not work and proof he could summon it through the Kurama avatar

.....He summons it directly on opponents. Can you prove that the avatar somehow blocks this?

 

[theultimate5105]

So what, he moves up a bit on Ning's oneshot chain?

no he doesn’t Ning cannot even one shot 320 gigaton characters without proof and Naruto slaps away 320 gigatons
its a unquantifiable gap between them as Naruto scales to a higher AP value

He surrounds himself in a Waterflame Lotus and focuses on the massive fox avatar in front of him while grinding any clones that get close and blocking their attacks. Like, spam isn't helping much of anything when Ning starts with a massive physical advantage.

he doesn’t though

.....He summons it directly on opponents. Can you prove that the avatar somehow blocks this?

Prove that it would bypass the avatar. his range isn’t even long enough to reach into the avatar unless Naruto literally lets him get right next to him

 

[Planck69]

no he doesn’t Ning cannot even one shot 320 gigaton characters without proof and Naruto slaps them

.....You claim he doesn't have proof for this (he does btw, imgur is just being fritzy atm) and then proceed to just claim that Naruto oneshots 320 Gigatons without proof?

Prove that it would bypass the avatar. his range isn’t even long enough to reach into the avatar

You make it sound as though he wouldn't try to close the gap and cut into him like he normally would against large opponents. By which point, Naruto's body will be well within the range of him spawning ice or flames on him.

 

[Planck69]

Ik, and his soul shatter depends on a huge ap gap so i'm not even sure if it will work here

No, it doesn't. Soul strength and power are independent in DE.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, but Naruto does have clone spam which is a good way to counter that.

Now, you will upgrade him to an Adept or add a key? If it's the former that's the worst option possible.

Upgrade him to Adept. If I gave a key for each realm, he'd have like 10 lol. It sucks for matches a bit but it's the best option I got. I plan on dividing him into either 2 profiles with 3-4 keys each or 1 profile with 7.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Ji Ning FRA

 

[Rikimarox2]

Tbf, there isn't any problem if the profile had 10 keys, but it'd be pretty annoying and to organize it, so I can understand why u don't wanna make it that many. Having a lot of keys was never a problem, considering we have characters with god-damn 20 keys.

Although the profile would probably be long af.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Ehhh, can't Naruto's and Ning's 6Cs ends be used? I think Naruto is kinda limited here since clone spam wouldn't be viable, much less getting out of Kurama and attacking with Rasengan (but restrict his moves above H6C key.

That's....not true, actually.
Naruto can create as many clones as he likes from within the Avatar and send them out. He can also create any kinds of clones that he likes: KCM2, Sage Mode, base form, etc.

 

[Popted2]

That's....not true, actually.
Naruto can create as many clones as he likes from within the Avatar and send them out. He can also create any kinds of clones that he likes: KCM2, Sage Mode, base form, etc.

Uchiha this is so good to have you here right now, when you have time can you give to us a proper input for Naruto if it isn't a problem?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Uchiha this is so good to have you here right now, when you have time can you give to us a proper input for Naruto if it isn't a problem?

I'll do an ability and strategy breakdown for this version of Naruto a little later, sure.

 

[theultimate5105]

.....You claim he doesn't have proof for this (he does btw, imgur is just being fritzy atm) and then proceed to just claim that Naruto oneshots 320 Gigatons without proof?

You make it sound as though he wouldn't try to close the gap and cut into him like he normally would against large opponents. By which point, Naruto's body will be well within the range of him spawning ice or flames on him.

I edited it like 10 seconds after posting but whatever
He scales to casually slapping away 5x 64 gigaton attacks
cutting into Naruto would do nothing to Naruto as the Avatar will just reform

 

[speedster352]

I edited it like 10 seconds after posting but whatever
He scales to casually slapping away 5x 64 gigaton attacks
cutting into Naruto would do nothing to Naruto as the Avatar will just reform

Yeah Naruto also has sage mode which is a huge amp and he can stack it with kcm2 and one tailed beast bomb is a win he can't regen from nothing. Another thing is that ma and pa can put jing under genjutsu after a few seconds which Naruto can buy time for.

 

[Zaratthustra]

My two cents but Naruto used Ma and Pa (illusion song) only once when he was summoned along them by the Ma (Ma summoned them in the Pain Arc) and never after that (hopefully I remember right), which is not a move that Naruto would do..he never summoned Ma or Pa by himself.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

My two cents but Naruto used Ma and Pa (illusion song) only once when he was summoned along them by the Ma (Ma summoned them in the Pain Arc) and never after that (hopefully I remember right), which is not a move that Naruto would do..he never summoned Ma or Pa by himself.

No, you're right. It's not in-character for him to summon them at all.

 

[speedster352]

No, you're right. It's not in-character for him to summon them at all.

But he can and will when facing ji. Anyway the same thing happens Naruto activates sage mode spams clones and dura neg while charging a biju bomb and that's a win.

 

[Planck69]

But he can and will when facing ji. Anyway the same thing happens Naruto activates sage mode spams clones and dura neg while charging a biju bomb and that's a win.

No, he won't. OoC moves don't just happen cause a character faces a strong opponent. You seem to have a serious problem with this sort of thing in matches with characters you like.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But he can and will when facing ji. Anyway the same thing happens Naruto activates sage mode spams clones and dura neg while charging a biju bomb and that's a win.

Here's the thing....
Naruto was facing the absolute strongest opponents he'd ever faced during the War Arc, and he still didn't really resort to summoning the toads at all. He pretty much used everything in his arsenal during the War, EXCEPT summoning Ma and Pa.

 

[speedster352]

Here's the thing....
Naruto was facing the absolute strongest opponents he'd ever faced during the War Arc, and he still didn't really resort to summoning the toads at all. He pretty much used everything in his arsenal during the War, EXCEPT summoning Ma and Pa.

Like I said Naruto still activates sage mode spams clones with dura neg and then he hit's ji with a biju bomb and he wins

 

[Planck69]

Like I said Naruto still activates sage mode spams clones with dura neg and then he hit's ji with a biju bomb and he wins

What, the internal damage? Ji Ning's regeneration completely ignores that. And regarding getting hit, unless Naruto is in the business of regularly wrecking the landscape, that's not something that Ning can't just dodge. He might be tho, been a while since I watched Naruto.

 

[speedster352]

What, the internal damage? Ji Ning's regeneration completely ignores that. And regarding getting hit, unless Naruto is in the business of regularly wrecking the landscape, that's not something that Ning can't just dodge. He might be tho, been a while since I watched Naruto.

Tailed beats bombs and most of Narutos attacks have huge aoe. Like I said Naruto activates sage mode send thosands of clones to ji and get's a biju bomb ready and vaporizes ji if the clones haven't done that already.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

AP honestly should be a lot more even then people make it out to be. Naruto is easily above 320 gigatons normally. Sage mode can turn a Baseline 7-B into a High 7-A and thats hundreds of times stronger. Theres no reason to say that amp wont work the same on Kurama avatar and even if you think so even a 3-4 times amp will be more than enough to make the AP gap negligible.

I just simply dont see Ji Ning winning as him getting close to naruto just is not happening (Even if you want to say he can close the distance naruto can just jump and go thousands of meters up in the air), also naruto is the type to shoot a bijuudama even if it would hit himself like when he fought sasuke. So him charging it up and shooting it would 100% happen, Ji Ning is basically just racing to get past all of naruto's defences and kill him.

 

[YoutubeForKing]

(Edit for people new coming in)

Naruto's AP is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 320 gigs
Nings AP is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 290 gigs
(Ning's scaling chain has multiple one shots and while he might be overwhelmingly stronger than regular Kurama avatar. This key has access to sage mode Kurama avatar and sage mode easily has a 100x+ multiplier as it made a baseline 7-B character turn into High 7-A simply just by transforming.

Range easily goes to naruto as his avatar alone is 1500-2000 meters in height and he starts off at the top of it. He also has shadow clones and summons that can fight for him and that extends his range a shit ton.
Ji Nings range is several hundred meters with his strongest attacks.

Ls EASILY goes to naruto he is Hundreds of times stronger possibly hundreds of thousands when considering his class T comes from an imperfect 8 tailed kurama and he didn't have the sage mode amp at that time.

The wincons for Naruto here are:
Shooting a fully charged bijuu bomb and oneshotting Ji Ning (Only takes a couple of seconds to charge up, and he will shoot it while he's in blast range like when he did while fighting sasuke)
Summoning Ma and Pa and using genjutsu (He can actively move them around in his avatar as well as himself to avoid attacks from Ji Ning)
Using regen negation and killing Ji Ning that way (Naruto has low godly regen negation while Ning is only Low-High.)

The wincons for Ji Ning are:
Soul destroying naruto (This is really the best way Ji Ning has IMO and even so he has to close the distance to hit naruto, considering naruto did that in this key naruto can easily jump tens of thousands of meters to avoid Ji Ning)
Out-skilling naruto in hand to hand and beating him (This is rarely happening as naruto will probably not be leaving kurama)

By the I voted Naruto FRA.

>>

 

[YoutubeForKing]

Ji Ning can split his mind, so he's not getting distracted. Even then, what stops him from just....killing them???

The move works on sound so it would simply put all of his minds under a genjutsu

 

[XDragnoir]

The sage mode amp is HUGE, all these feats are from kurama avatar non sage mode and we've already seen from the fight with pain that sage mode amps up naruto from baseline 7-B to High 7-A. That is at least 160x amp right there. And if you wanna say kurama avatar amp works different, even a 2-4x amp would suffice and thats an extreme lowball amp.

Yo, we don't use multipliers that weren't stated, so your logic here is invalid... And how exaclty would a x2 help when Ning is so close to one shotting range due to his massive scaling?

A lot of arguments I am seeing is under the assumption that Ning can close the distance and tag naruto, Nings range is "several hundred meters with his most powerful attacks so like 4-8 hundred" Mean while just to hit kuramas head which is where naruto would start off in he has to reach 2.5 - 5x his top range (And thats with his most powerful attacks so im not sure if he can spam).

Agree, Naruto has a range and size advantage.

He'd also have to deal with the naruto clones who have more Range/LS than him aswell

That's....not true, actually.
Naruto can create as many clones as he likes from within the Avatar and send them out. He can also create any kinds of clones that he likes: KCM2, Sage Mode, base form, etc.

Can Naruto create clones with Kurama Avatars at this point? Cause normal clones would be 6C afaik since H6C is specifically for Kurama Avatar, and a bunch of 6Cs isn't helping against a H6C with AOE and Danmaku.

Honestly the odds here are just stacked in naruto's favor with only 2 valid ways he might actually kill naruto (3 if you include the soul shatter but thats sus as hell since their needs to be a huge ap gap and its unquantifiable how much stronger Ning is than Naruto)

When was that stated, please? Damn, even if that was stated that's cause higher stages (xiantian, zifu, etc) also increase one's soul resistance while that's not the case for chakra in Naruto afaik and Naruto has no resistance against soul shatteting.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well their main argument is the AP gap. Tho most of the time they are using forms way into the novel that vsbattles has not added so a lot of that stuff cant even be mentioned into this fight

Also, that was ONE GUY which our side promptly corrected, me, Planck, Zara and Riki didn't do that so don't talk about us like if you understood about Ning's capabilities more than any of us 4, please.

 

[XDragnoir]

Anyway, i think it's obvious that Ning's main wincon is having an AP advantage so i will ask any of the more experienced Naruto supporters to give a full view about the scaling chain Kurama Avatar has in this key (so, what feat and/or multipliers got the base value, what feat Naruto did to scale to it, what amps he can put on top of the ones he was using during it and anything else).

While that i will give a few more statements and feats about Ning's scaling chain:

This is the kind of gap there is from Xiantian to Zifu (in this case it's about Ning's own technique which is the top 1), sadly there is no multiplier but it's still a massive gap as you all can see:

[Crimsonbright Diagram of the Nine Heavens]. Generally speaking, in order to advance by a stage, one slowly accumulated power, and then broke through. For example, from the fourth to the fifth stage, or from the fifth to the sixth stage, one had to slowly train and accumulate strength.

But from the sixth stage to the seventh stage was a giant leap between different realms!

The divine body would change on a qualitative level, and so the amount of energy that was needed was incomparably astonishing. In fact, the amount needed was even more astonishingly tremendous than the amount which Ning had acquired over the course of nearly five years, as he advanced from the fourth stage to the sixth stage

Then we have Ning, who while amped by outside forces to "beyond peak zifu stage energy" could reach wanxiang level power (the fourth cultivation stage) when using his strongest attacks:

If my guess is correct, Jadechild should be a peak Zifu Disciple who has learned a divine ability.” Ninefire sent. “A peak Zifu Ki Refiner who has a divine ability…his power will absolutely be at the Wanxiang Adept level. You must be careful.”

Ning nodded.

Wanxiang Adept level?

By relying on an elemental energy that was more powerful than the peak Zifu level, the Rainwater Sword Domain, and the [Lesser Thousand Swords Formation]…Ning, too, could be said to have the combat ability of a Wanxiang Adept!

Which allowed him to one shot Zifu Disciples casually:

“Not good.” As a line of rain drew close to him, the triangle-pupiled cultivator suddenly felt a sharp ripple come towards him. He hurriedly waved the longsword in his hand, wanting to block, but it was too late…

That line of rainwater had come too close!

And his sword techniques were too ordinary. How marvelous were Ning’s sword techniques? With a gentle twist, the rainwater moved past the longsword, then scraped past his head!

“Rumble…” The formerly hazy white light of the Eight Trigrams Formation suddenly grew blindingly bright.

“We are under attack!” Dong Ziqi and the others were all shocked. After suffering an attack, the formation would naturally explode with power. Bang! The head of the triangle-pupiled cultivator, his eyes still filled with shock, went flying into the air.

The Ning being used here tho is above that one, as his AP is by itself equal to early stage wanxiang (ie, without amps he is equal to his previous peak) at the 9th stage of the CDNH:

“My long-distance attacks are now comparable to my close-quarters attacks,” Ning mused to himself. Ning was now extremely powerful in close combat, because he had reached the ninth stage of the [Crimsonbright Diagram of the Nine Heavens], which was comparable to an ordinary early stage Wanxiang Adept Fiendgod! In addition, after he had reached the Dao Domain level in the Dao of the Inferno and gained a thousand black-white pellets, Ning had purchased both the divine ability [Heavenly Transformation] as well as the second scroll of the [Crimsonbright Diagram of the Nine Heavens].

Thus, even if he didn’t use the utterly monstrous [Starseizing Hand] ability, just by relying on his [Windwing Evasion] and [Heavenly Transformation] divine abilities, Ning could unleash a truly astonishing amount of power in close combat. In addition, as a Ki Refiner, he had the [Lesser Thousand Swords Formation], and so he was also extremely strong. Both in close quarters and at long range…he was extremely powerful.

So the scaling chain is more or less (<above, <<way above, <<<one shot):

290GTs = 4th stage Ning << 6th stage Ning = early stage zifu << 7th stage Ning = late stage Zifu << Beyond Peak Zifu Ning << 9th stage Ning

Add all this to my first and it should be obvious that the quotes about Zifus easily killing Xiantians are meant to be one shots and well, gg

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

How does ji dao techniques work?

 

[XDragnoir]

How does ji dao techniques work?

Depends which one, but the conceptual part aside it's not much different from elemental manipulation, the most unique thing he can do is his Dao Domain (mainly the rainwater one) which is used to "shapeshift" his sword lights into rainwater.

 

[Planck69]

Anyway, i think it's obvious that Ning's main wincon is having an AP advantage so i will ask any of the more experienced Naruto supporters to give a full view about the scaling chain Kurama Avatar has in this key (so, what feat and/or multipliers got the base value, what feat Naruto did to scale to it, what amps he can put on top of the ones he was using during it and anything else).

While that i will give a few more statements and feats about Ning's scaling chain:

This is the kind of gap there is from Xiantian to Zifu (in this case it's about Ning's own technique which is the top 1), sadly there is no multiplier but it's still a massive gap as you all can see:

Then we have Ning, who while amped by outside forces to "beyond peak zifu stage energy" could reach wanxiang level power (the fourth cultivation stage) when using his strongest attacks:

Which allowed him to one shot Zifu Disciples casually:

The Ning being used here tho is above that one, as his AP is by itself equal to early stage wanxiang (ie, without amps he is equal to his previous peak) at the 9th stage of the CDNH:

So the scaling chain is more or less (<above, <<way above, <<<one shot):

290GTs = 4th stage Ning << 6th stage Ning = early stage zifu << 7th stage Ning = late stage Zifu << Beyond Peak Zifu Ning << 9th stage Ning

Add all this to my first and it should be obvious that the quotes about Zifus easily killing Xiantians are meant to be one shots and well, gg

I should also add that while he was significantly weaker than he is at the peak of this key, he does this to an early Wanxiang Adept.