Naruto Upgrades (Staff Only)

[VenomElite]

Copied from the original thread by DodoNova2:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogodoNova2/Golden_Wheel_Reincarnation_Explosio

"Following this calc which was accepted, have asked me to put the characters of naruto which will be put to the scale, thus there is: ALL the god tier that are probably stronger than Toneri that is to say:

Kaguya Ootsutsuki

Naruto (teenager & Adult) [Post KSM & Other Laying Forms [SPSM]]

Sasuke [Post Rinnegan]

Madara [Post Juubi jinchuriki & other superior forms]

Hagoromo Ootsutsuki

Hamura Ootsutsuki

Momoshiki Ootsutsuki [All Form]

Might Guy [Post 8 gates]

Juubi [All Forms]

The Top Tier:

Toneri (obviously ...)

Obito [Incomplete Juubi Jinchuriki & Mastered IJJ]

Kinshiki Ootsutsuki

Kurama

High Top Tier:

Kakashi Hatake (Kept up with Kaguya)

Probably Minato [KCM & Senjutsu] (Comparable to Naruto can Reacted to Obito Attack, he reacted to Truth Seeking Ball From madara)

Hashirama [Sage Mode] (stronger than Minato & Naruto KCM)

Tobirama (He reacted to the attack of obito)

'Hiruzen Sarutobi '(Reacted to Obito Attack)"

Warning: Staff Only thread. Please do not reply if you are non-staff.

 

[SomebodyData]

If the calcs use cinematic timing and calc stacking, as Peter and Xcano suggested in the blog, then I disagree with using it.

 

[VenomElite]

If the calcs use cinematic timing and calc stacking, as Peter and Xcano suggested in the blog, then I disagree with using it.

Same here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I seem to have misunderstood LordXcano then. My apologies for causing a mess. I handle a lot of different issues quickly after each other, so I sometimes make mistakes.

 

[Dark649]

This calc for now is only accepted by LordXcano, also the cinematic timing of the scene can affect the reliability of the calc.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If the calcs use cinematic timing and calc stacking, as Peter and Xcano suggested in the blog, then I disagree with using it.

Same here.

Me three.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Me four.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Five now.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Count six.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the upgrades seem to have been rejected then.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I think Xcano was referring to the second half when he said it was calc stacking, from what I can gather he seemed to accept the first bit.

Maybe ask him and Gwyn to comment here.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Okay, just one minute now.

If this whole upgrade was based on calculation stacking, how did it even reach in the Staff Discussion phase anyway?

On another note, there's a guy that has some arguments about why cinematic timing doesn't matter here. Shall I paste his arguments here?

Also Gwynbleiddd is already messaged about this from Ant.

 

[SomebodyData]

Hmmm, is that so @Rad? What about the cinematic timing portion?

 

[RadicalMrR]

I dont know much about cinematic time but the guy in the comment section made a pretty compelling argument.

 

[VenomElite]

@Scarlet

Ant suggested I make one because the original thread had the potential to become unmanageable.

 

[Antvasima]

I will ask LordXcano to comment here as well. I may have misunderstood him and cleared the calculation, due to being in a constant hurry with many different issues.

@VenomElite Yes, a highlighted Naruto thread open for everybody tends to attract a flood of comments in quick succession.

 

[Antvasima]

The member UchihaVision made some comments regarding that this calculation may be acceptable after all:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogodoNova2/Golden_Wheel_Reincarnation_Explosio

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Cinematic time if fine here due to the scene being continuous, but the rest is calc stacking so it can only be used for Toneri's attack speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I would appreciate if you reply within the blog post as well. Thank you.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I have done so.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[LordXcano]

Yeah. I was only talking about the first bit. The calc is still fine and it still scales to Naruto since he reacted to it, you just can't calc him actually reacting to it in any meaningful way.

tl;dr

Goku shoots a 9c Kamehameha beam

Vegeta reacts to a different but equally as fast if not faster beam

Vegeta scales to 9c, but you can't calc Vegeta reacting to the beam to get higher/lower results than 9c

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so do you support a speed upgrade for Naruto based on this?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, if so, which characters would it scale to, and would both his adult and teenage profiles be modified accordingly?

 

[Dark649]

It would scale to the characters mentioned by VenomElite. Even if it can be used for Toneri attack speed, it would stil scale to everyone who is faster than him and i'm sure most of the admins are against Sub-Relativistic Naruto.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[RadicalMrR]

i'm sure most of the admins are against Sub-Relativistic Naruto.

Why, wuts wrong with going from mhs+ to sub-rel?

 

[Dark649]

Because the current best speed is the series is Sage Madara MHS+ speed feat, Toneri is much weaker and slower than Sage Madara, so it is better to wait for a normal sub-relativistic speed.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Toneri is much weaker and slower than Sage Madara

Where was it stated Madara is both stronger and faster?

 

[Dark649]

Actually they were stated to be comparable, but Toneri was defeated by Kyuubi Chakra Sage Mode Naruto while separated from Kurama. Sage Madara in his best state was superior to Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke with sage chakra, which are vastly superior to Kyuubi Chakra Sage Mode Naruto.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Madara's feat was casual, was it not? There's nothing wrong with scaling this one to them, especially as there's a Mach 1200-3000+ calc for the Deva Path.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Sage Madara in his best state was superior to Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke with sage chakra, which are vastly superior to Kyuubi Chakra Sage Mode Naruto.

So naruto couldnt just be much faster than before after years of training?

 

[Dark649]

So naruto couldnt just be much faster than before after years of training?

Only if the Naruto series follows the years of training powerup thing from Dragon Ball [Where the protagonists becomes much stronger and faster than the strongest opponent of the arc, in this case Kaguya], but this is not the case.

 

[Gemmysaur]

I think post-training speed boost would apply to Naruto, had he been training like he was before, but given how ridiculously strong he is at that point, how is he even going to train himself?

Serious question.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

He's probably at least as fast if not faster than his previous speed if he isn't much faster than before despite the training, but he probably have yet to demonstrate it.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

@Dark649 Why would the attack speed of Toneri's most powerful attack scale to anyone else?

Naruto was a considerable distance when he reacted to it and using his relative motion would calc stacking.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with your response.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So is somebody interested in upgrading Toneri's attack speed?

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

I think Gwyn already upgraded it.

 

[Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki]

Also just a question, wouldn't Naruto be at Sub-Rel speed since he managed to dodge Toneri's attack? And that wasn't at full power IIRC.