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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Ghostimuscrime said:
Why’s that magically relevant now? Why’s author intent not brought up in the 7000 other CRTs, Calcs, do people not get the fact that death of the author/multiple interpretations can exist, you can’t even gauge what they think, it’s all assumptions
Click to expand...
Death of the Author interpretations are usually stupid ash for stories that aren't intentionally open-ended(at least IMO), but my opinion aside they're especially not gonna be valid on a site where pm always favors the most contextually logical and least assumptive conclusion for indexing sake.

Opinions and other interpretations of scaling can ofc exist, but to be on the site they have to fit the standards the site sets.

I guarantee you that most of the people on the site scale every verse they follow very differently than they do on-site. but they conform to the standards of the site because they want to index the verse in a visually identifiable way or just be a part of the community.
Ghostimuscrime said:
For context this rant was born from me pondering about my last crt, Isshiki wasn’t able to scale above First Gate Kakashi’s 50c cuz he doesn’t use it enough, which is a poor reason because it doesn’t take away from Kakashi having gates it just means he has better alternatives or doesn’t feel like it’s substantial of a buff, Isshiki being above the hypothetical version of Kakashi logically passes but it got rejected because mods simply “disagree” How are you gonna be okay with Kakashi getting 50c and Isshiki being lower despite him being superior to the whole verse, Shibai can be theoretically above uzuhiko and ETSO even tho there’s no author statements simply cuz the logic is sound, why can’t the same apply here?
Click to expand...
I don't really mind Isshiki > the known verse (up to that point in NNG)

but tbh I had an argument I made a while back for the 1st Gate that may make the multiplier unusable for Kakashi and Guy.

I was planning to make a CRT out of it but I've been busy, especially around the time your Kakashi thread came out.
Ghostimuscrime said:
Why not remove rasengan barrage and asura avatar, Naruto doesn’t use them ever after first use
Click to expand...
agreed to an extent,

Rasengan Barrage is a catalyst to index stuff that Naruto does still use like Rasenshuriken or Cho Cho Odama Rasengan

Asura Avatar is a catalyst to index MAS which is used in Bort and mentioned in Bort material.

We don't necessarily need RB or AA to index those, but not having them makes the justifications far more cluttered than they need to be.
 
Alexander said:
i still found ridiculous that people think Naruto was gay (or bisexual), or at least there was gay subtext or whatever...am, i am sorry, how?I know that Naruto was obsessed with bringing Sasuke back, but at no point did it feel like it was because he was secretly in love or had minimal romantic feelings, rather it seemed like he wanted to make a friend come back because he cared about his only friend (sorry shikamaru)
Click to expand...
Ion think its that crazy
 
Nierre said:
also another hot take, but unless Asura Avatar actually has a statement that his power is multiplied by 3, he shouldn't have it by Wiki standards. I think it's just a (reasonable) assumption we made that it's a 3x multiplier but I genuinely don't recall any statements by Naruto or Kurama in that fight that mentioned that he multiplied his power x3.
Click to expand...
Did he not merge 3 clones into 1? I don't think it's a statement of a multiplier, more like 3 equal beings fused into 1
 
Samlex1234 said:
Guys, what is this argument about Uzuhiko being a soft cap? To the best of my knowledge, it was disregarded in the ETSO CRT and we don't have it as a standard.
Click to expand...
It's a three-part reasoning.

Uzuhiko > Boruto

- Boruto states it's above his normal AP if he doesn't hold it back.

Uzuhiko's Maximum Output = Centrifugal Force and Rotation of the Planet

tbh this whole section is a small part of my bigger argument that Uzuhiko is a jutsu that moves the planet's chakra toward a target rather than siphoning it into Boruto's chakra pool for an attack.

  • Bort hasn't shown the ability to amp his stats with Uzuhiko's vast energy, nor can he leave the ground until the jutsu makes contact with its target, something that is in direct contrast to every absorption ability in the series where the power is yours to manipulate once it reaches you.
  • Boruto claims to hold back Uzuhiko's power on more limited uses (for example: Code, who received far less damage and got hit with a far less visually powerful version of Uzuhiko, not to mention Bort was actively trying to let Code live, and get information on where the Juubi was out of him.)
  • The Planet shakes when Uzuhiko is active which wouldn't happen if it was just siphoning rotation from the earth (even if one were to say this is an appeal to reality, Ikemoto chose to actively utilize real-world scientific principles in the mechanics of the jutsu to depict where it's large power is coming from, disregarding that would be far more assumptive than simply taking the words verbatim.)
  • Boruto refers to Uzuhiko as a counterattack from the planet he attempted to destroy. (which isn't really evidence but very on-brand for the bigger picture)

Narrative Stuff (I know gross)

- Bort is the narrative contrast to Kawaki and Code who embrace their Otsutsuki traits and abilities to further their desires. whereas a majority of the Boruto series has been about Boruto, someone in a reverse situation to Naruto, learning to embrace the Shinobi ideology of enduring hardship for what they believe in/desire. The Otsutsuki Way is a direct contrast to the Shinobi way that Naruto has been preaching to the new generation (Self-Indulgence vs Self-Improvement, Self-Serving Oppression vs Desired Co-Existence, desire for Longevity/Immortality vs a desire to improve the current state of the world for the next generation, etc.) so for Boruto's main jutsu to be a way to redirect and tether the energy of the planet to an opponent, provide an outlet for the planet to attack its oppressors, the direct opposite of Otsutsuki, who snatch all of the life force on a planet disregarding the will of any other living being their let along the planet, is pretty thematically on point with what Ike and Kishi have been pushing since Boruto: Naruto the Movie, not to mention Kishi has been giving thematic relevance to important character's jutsu since chapter 1 of Naruto.

So Basically

If one were to accept that:

- Maximum Output Uzuhiko is the full rotational energy of a planet and not its suppressed variants.

- That it's stronger than TS characters who are massively stronger than Jigen, who is stronger than Shippuden GTs.

- And that all the Statements in the manga/databook, along with the narrative and thematic relevance the jutsu represents is logically sound.

Then it makes higher metas a lot less justifiable,

(specifically talking Tier 4 and up, I don't think Kishi knows the amount of Zettatons the Earth's rotation yields, if series somehow, someway gets a 5A calc in the future by an Uzuhiko victim, I don't think Uzuhiko negs that calc from being usable, but if someone said The Last Naruto punches with the force of 15 trillion stars when Uzuhiko is powered by a very quantifiable amount of energy from a single planet, ppl have every right to be skeptical.)
 
a far funnier and less talked about, yet similar topic to Uzuhiko is Toneri absorbing some of the Sun's energy for like less than 30 seconds and almost dying bc it was too much energy for his body💀
 
Godernet said:
but my opinion aside they're especially not gonna be valid on a site where pm always favors the most contextually logical and least assumptive conclusion for indexing sake.
Click to expand...
This is what I said about changing standards,

Why did you tell me we are going with the least assumptive stance and then do the opposite for uzuhiko where you’ll make shaky assumptions that don’t align with anything said in canon

What happened to not making assumptions?
 
Godernet said:
a far funnier and less talked about, yet similar topic to Uzuhiko is Toneri absorbing some of the Sun's energy for like less than 30 seconds and almost dying bc it was too much energy for his body💀
Click to expand...
I don’t think this is particularly significant, which is why it’s rarely discussed. Firstly, we don’t know the exact amount of energy he absorbed during that 30-minute span. Secondly, there were numerous energy sources involved, including the thousands of Byakugan eyes that could continually power the moon for millennia, protect it after a direct clash with Earth, and even move the planet for an indefinite period.

Toneri’s sole goal was to destroy and recreate Earth using that energy. While it’s possible he could do more with it, that wouldn’t align with his objective. Thirdly, Naruto’s energy was indiscriminately absorbed during this process, and we also don’t know how much of it was taken. Fourthly Toneri is weaker than Kaguya.

In essence, just because someone uses a bazooka to kill a target doesn’t mean they can’t achieve the same result with a pistol.
 
Godernet said:
needing more power than you can supply + calling an abilities power limitless = probably stronger than you are.
Click to expand...
That looks like an assumption to me
Godernet said:
not to mention saying you will need to gather quite a lot power to kill him in one shot..
Click to expand...
We can have this result arrive from durability negation interpretation, why pick AP over this?

Dura Neg Interpretation is supported by narrative, why choose the least likely option with nothing backing it up other than inconsistency?
Godernet said:
saying there's no limit to an ability in your arsenal's power is practically admitting that it's superior to your normal capabilities.
Click to expand...
Why change wording from superior AP to capabilities? It can be above the standard uzuhiko by means of making greater volumes of said dura neg force, Hidari isn’t particularly extremely durable to the point of requiring massive attack power


I’ll respond to the other things later in the day
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Why did you tell me we are going with the least assumptive stance and then do the opposite for uzuhiko where you’ll make shaky assumptions that don’t align with anything said in canon
Click to expand...
First off, nothing I said was something accepted on any page or profile, just my attempt to answer his question on the overall Uzuhiko argument + some of my own opinions.

idk if you noticed but the "soft cap" isn't something that's formally accepted by wiki, it's just no one's made a good enough argument debunking a very valid skepticism that currently exists in scaling vastly above Uzuhiko.

Second rather than saying my stance is shaky, assumptive, or that it doesn't align with the canon, actually demonstrate that.

I don't mind entertaining arguments good or bad for a bit as long as they're actual arguments.
Ghostimuscrime said:
What happened to not making assumptions?
Click to expand...
I never said no assumptions ever, I said least assumptions

edit: posted before i saw the other comment.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
That looks like an assumption to me
Click to expand...
once again not all assumptions are bad, especially when they use the context of the scene, it's just the more you use especially without context or narrative support, the closer you get to headcanon.

  • Bort and Sarada putting emphasis on this jutsu that would be capable of destroying Hidari in a single shot.
  • We get a demonstration of the destruction caused by a regular Rasengan just prior to Uzuhiko's usage to compare.
  • Bort calls Uzuhiko's power limitless.
  • Bort says that gathering the power needed to oneshot Hidari would take him a bit of time (which wouldn't be the case if he already had the power to one-shot him with his own chakra pool since Uzuhiko incorporates his power too via the database.)
  • Bort not even getting to Max output almost one-shotting Hidari.

Based on this, I think most people would find it safe to say this interpretation isn't an outrageous one.
Ghostimuscrime said:
We can have this result arrive from durability negation interpretation, why pick AP over this?
Click to expand...
Because Uzuhiko is stated to be the damage of a Rasengan(AP)+ mental damage

even normal Rasengan's have some dura neg but energy-based dura neg without an extra esoteric hax will always have an AP value.

also, the amount of times Boruto references the power of the jutsu quantitatively makes it much hard to believe its talking about some kind of hax, especially without evidence.
Ghostimuscrime said:
Dura Neg Interpretation is supported by narrative, why choose the least likely option with nothing backing it up other than inconsistency?
Click to expand...
explain how it's supported by the narrative.
Ghostimuscrime said:
Why change wording from superior AP to capabilities? It can be above the standard uzuhiko by means of making greater volumes of said dura neg force, Hidari isn’t particularly extremely durable to the point of requiring massive attack power
Click to expand...
1). You'd need to prove Uzuhiko is 100% dura neg and what type of dura neg it is or it'll always be partially AP, not to mention explain why the Databook is wrong in saying it is in part the damage of a normal Rasengan.

2). why do you say Hidari isn't durable? he took an off-guard Rasengan with a carved shoulder, and again Boruto is the one who stated they needed more power, not me.
you would need to prove Uzuhiko to be esoteric hax for your argument to even be viable since my interpretation of what Boruto said is just taking his word and the database verbatim.
 
Last edited:
Godernet said:
It's a three-part reasoning.

Uzuhiko > Boruto

- Boruto states it's above his normal AP if he doesn't hold it back.

Uzuhiko's Maximum Output = Centrifugal Force and Rotation of the Planet

tbh this whole section is a small part of my bigger argument that Uzuhiko is a jutsu that moves the planet's chakra toward a target rather than siphoning it into Boruto's chakra pool for an attack.

  • Bort hasn't shown the ability to amp his stats with Uzuhiko's vast energy, nor can he leave the ground until the jutsu makes contact with its target, something that is in direct contrast to every absorption ability in the series where the power is yours to manipulate once it reaches you.
  • Boruto claims to hold back Uzuhiko's power on more limited uses (for example: Code, who received far less damage and got hit with a far less visually powerful version of Uzuhiko, not to mention Bort was actively trying to let Code live, and get information on where the Juubi was out of him.)
  • The Planet shakes when Uzuhiko is active which wouldn't happen if it was just siphoning rotation from the earth (even if one were to say this is an appeal to reality, Ikemoto chose to actively utilize real-world scientific principles in the mechanics of the jutsu to depict where it's large power is coming from, disregarding that would be far more assumptive than simply taking the words verbatim.)
  • Boruto refers to Uzuhiko as a counterattack from the planet he attempted to destroy. (which isn't really evidence but very on-brand for the bigger picture)

Narrative Stuff (I know gross)

- Bort is the narrative contrast to Kawaki and Code who embrace their Otsutsuki traits and abilities to further their desires. whereas a majority of the Boruto series has been about Boruto, someone in a reverse situation to Naruto, learning to embrace the Shinobi ideology of enduring hardship for what they believe in/desire. The Otsutsuki Way is a direct contrast to the Shinobi way that Naruto has been preaching to the new generation (Self-Indulgence vs Self-Improvement, Self-Serving Oppression vs Desired Co-Existence, desire for Longevity/Immortality vs a desire to improve the current state of the world for the next generation, etc.) so for Boruto's main jutsu to be a way to redirect and tether the energy of the planet to an opponent, provide an outlet for the planet to attack its oppressors, the direct opposite of Otsutsuki, who snatch all of the life force on a planet disregarding the will of any other living being their let along the planet, is pretty thematically on point with what Ike and Kishi have been pushing since Boruto: Naruto the Movie, not to mention Kishi has been giving thematic relevance to important character's jutsu since chapter 1 of Naruto.

So Basically

If one were to accept that:

- Maximum Output Uzuhiko is the full rotational energy of a planet and not its suppressed variants.

- That it's stronger than TS characters who are massively stronger than Jigen, who is stronger than Shippuden GTs.

- And that all the Statements in the manga/databook, along with the narrative and thematic relevance the jutsu represents is logically sound.

Then it makes higher metas a lot less justifiable,

(specifically talking Tier 4 and up, I don't think Kishi knows the amount of Zettatons the Earth's rotation yields, if series somehow, someway gets a 5A calc in the future by an Uzuhiko victim, I don't think Uzuhiko negs that calc from being usable, but if someone said The Last Naruto punches with the force of 15 trillion stars when Uzuhiko is powered by a very quantifiable amount of energy from a single planet, ppl have every right to be skeptical.)
Click to expand...
Before you read this, I want to make it clear that I’m not entirely disagreeing with you. I just want to point out a few contradictions.

Where we agree:
I believe Uzuhiko is stronger than Boruto’s base Rasengan. In fact, I don’t think Uzuhiko uses the absorbed energy to enhance his physical stats; rather, it seems to amplify the Rasengan itself. Well it also says categorically ,

“A new form of Rasengan that utilizes not only one's own chakra,“


Where we disagree

1 “nor can he leave the ground until the jutsu makes contact with its target”

Counter
We know that Boruto directly absorbs the energy first before creating his attack, whether it’s channeled into a standard Rasengan or his body it doesn’t really matter. However, there’s no evidence to support your claim that he can only use it while grounded after absorption. In fact, we’ve seen that once the jutsu is embedded in someone, it continues to function even if they are in a different dimension. Boruto can even rescind it remotely, regardless of location.




2. “The Planet shakes when Uzuhiko is active which wouldn't happen if it was just siphoning rotation from the earth”

The planet shaking means absolutely nothing, we already have information that there is the first impact that is caused by the rasengan which would mean in fact the energy absorbed is used in the initial impact. Even if we say Boruto used the planetary spin around it axis for a day, the impact from this would still be more than the planet just shaking which is may be “Multi Continent level”.

Boruto potentially went beyond this in the uzuhiko used against Hidari, which is mainly AP , and we still saw no damage or severe impact done against the planet. So yes appeal to reality it is.



3. “Maximum Output Uzuhiko is the full rotational energy of a planet and not its suppressed variants”

The maximum output of Uzuhiko potentially exceeds the energy of one full planetary spin or one full orbit around the Sun. Here’s why: the Earth doesn’t stop spinning after 24 hours, nor does it stop orbiting after 365/366 days. We have evidence that Boruto can absorb as much or as little energy as he desires without causing noticeable harm to the planet . This raises the question— if he can absorb the Spin and orbit for 183 days (6 months) what prevents him from absorbing the rotational or orbital energy equivalent to 20 years, or even the energy accumulated over 5 billion years?



Notice it says unceasing nature?



Notice he says if I don’t hold back? How much can he hold back and how much can he use, that is to be determined.


4. Then it makes higher metas a lot less justifiable

This is where the real problem lies, people having sceptical interpretations is fine as long as it is not made the standard. The fact that the databook explanation of the justu specifically added several sources , which honestly them interacting with themselves does not always equal one plus one (we have cases of this even in real life) but I digress. Means the justu is not confined to one standard interpretation that will then limit it , affecting every other calcs and feats we have.



Uzuhiko is not a soft cap. In fact, the two times Boruto used it, no one can accurately calculate or determine the true energy output of the attack.
 
Last edited:
Godernet said:
2). why do you say Hidari isn't durable? he took an off-guard Rasengan with a carved shoulder, and again Boruto is the one who stated they needed more power, not me.
you would need to prove Uzuhiko to be esoteric hax for your argument to even be viable since my interpretation of what Boruto said is just taking his word and the database verbatim.
Click to expand...
I really don’t disagree with the above. But Hidari did not take an off-guard rasengan without harm, he needed to regenerate so there was indeed damage done.
 
Was expecting the whole discussion right now to be about the recent chapter.... But go on .... Fight fight fight fight fight
 
I already see the doujins being drawn

What the ****?

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1261392501017940081/1319354088835518485/GfK5x1fWQAAHj6c.png?ex=6765a7bf&is=6764563f&hm=74c2c07ca64925a3f087ee71cfc2d5d055016fb033df54be20918131149370d2&
 
Ight new crt boys

hop in
Ghostimuscrime

Thread 'Gokage Speed Upgrade & Uzuhiko Fix [Boruto]'

Simple CRT, just two changes



Gokage Buff :
EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest...
  • Like
 
-Matsuri can talk to trees because she's the best at using her wood or whatever
-Presumably another pretty basic ship bait with Yodo and... either Shinki or Araya, idk what the writers want us to think, I guess. Nothing especially relevant.
-Pretty clear setup of how Moegi and Konohamaru are gonna end up I guess, OR an indication that she just absolutely hates him outside of the tree if their feelings toward someone ar flipped, because damn if Matsuri ain't wanna eat him a different way.
-This ******* jester is adorable wtf
-This sentient trench coat of a man is also adorable
-Jura: Jura
-Uh oh, Kawaki just pinned an untrained old man to a wall, hope he doesn't bust out any new tech on him
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Ight new crt boys

hop in
Ghostimuscrime

Thread 'Gokage Speed Upgrade & Uzuhiko Fix [Boruto]'

Simple CRT, just two changes



Gokage Buff :
EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest...
  • Like
Click to expand...
The new display system for threads made me bust one, it's so good
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Ight new crt boys

hop in
Ghostimuscrime

Thread 'Gokage Speed Upgrade & Uzuhiko Fix [Boruto]'

Simple CRT, just two changes



Gokage Buff :
EOS Kakashi is 9.12c, his 1st gate is 45.6c as seen here, Boruto era characters outscale non god tiers massively that
strong characters like him & sakura despite their strong powers are not much of a help, hence in momo arc Sasuke
states gokage are the best people to employ when naruto was kidnapped, proving gokage far surpass any of the
boosts that kakashi or sakura can provide. This is also a critical situation as they're deemed kaguya level threats,
kaguya who is considered the greatest...
  • Like
Click to expand...
crt previews in the message goes hard wtf
 
I had a realisation, Hidari dying to Uzuhiko technically does not cap god tiers,

Hidari stalemates Boruto via Ninjutsu, when Code runs off it's due to them collectively being too much for him to handle saying they will devour boruto and hes on his own, nothing says Hidari physicals>Code Physicals
Hidari gets reacted to as well as beat up by sarada and boruto either via sword or ninjutsu, so technically it only caps Hidari
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
I had a realisation, Hidari dying to Uzuhiko technically does not cap god tiers,

Hidari stalemates Boruto via Ninjutsu, when Code runs off it's due to them collectively being too much for him to handle saying they will devour boruto and hes on his own, nothing says Hidari physicals>Code Physicals
Hidari gets reacted to as well as beat up by sarada and boruto either via sword or ninjutsu, so technically it only caps Hidari
Click to expand...
I guess, but that would presume that Hidari's Chidori is like waaay better than Boruto's Rasengan.

Would he have Sasuke's experience or something?
 
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