• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Padaruyos said:
There are quite a few problems with SM multiplier with our current scaling.

1. Sannin scaling is a lot more convoluted since now SM Jiraiya has to be 10x stronger than Base Jiraiya.

2. Madara's PS is > Sasuke's PS, who scales to BSM Naruto. (Orochimaru states Sasuke is going to surpass Madara, implying he hasn't) and 100% Kurama is more or less comparable to Madara's PS. This means that 100% Kurama would have to be >10x stronger than 50% Kurama.

3. SM Alive Hashirama now hilariously demolishes Juubito.

Like imagine this scaling

2nd form Juubi (98 TT) = 50% Kurama = KCM2 Naruto < BSM Naruto, EMS Sasuke's PS (980 TT) < Madara's PS, Base Hashirama Mokuton, 100% Kurama (980 TT) < Juubito (1960 TT) < Alive SM Hashirama (9800 TT)

Hashirama is stated to be revived at close to his original power, meaning Edo SM Hashirama is at least 4900 TT.

Doesn't work, we would have to overhaul everything.
Click to expand...
Or you could just scale juubito to hashirama and downscale from there? Considering we have no calcs for the juubi strongest tbb there is no issue if juubito is that high and you bring everyone downwards from there
 
HelloThere1089 said:
That is what bug said verbatim I think. I was confused at first too. Slayer cleared it up for me how it would be possible. Although it could still be the case that touch isn't required. I'm just explaining how there is still a possibility.
Click to expand...
Bug stated "actions" are reflected when he's touching someone.

Amado stated intentions (Klling Intents) are reflected on other conditions. It is not clear if he included hand touching as well.

I think there's distinction between "actions" and "intentions". Though they haven't done a good job in portraying it.

If there's really a distinction in future, then the only way to fight Daemon is without the intent to damage or kill. I wonder how that works though.
Daemon obviously has other abilities not yet revealed.
 
Last edited:
Padaruyos said:
There are quite a few problems with SM multiplier with our current scaling.

1. Sannin scaling is a lot more convoluted since now SM Jiraiya has to be 10x stronger than Base Jiraiya.
Click to expand...
Nah.
Padaruyos said:
2. Madara's PS is > Sasuke's PS, who scales to BSM Naruto. (Orochimaru states Sasuke is going to surpass Madara, implying he hasn't) and 100% Kurama is more or less comparable to Madara's PS. This means that 100% Kurama would have to be >10x stronger than 50% Kurama.
Click to expand...
Madara was SM amped, and BSM Naruto > 50% Kurama
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
i have so many thoughts im not legally allowed to say
Click to expand...
Shadow when they change their mind:
tenor.gif
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
In wiki
Click to expand...
Nah it's just treated as a large but unquantifiable increase
karo_senpaii said:
1. Not having the dojutsu is irrelevant to power as dojutsu are genetic traits. And the karma pattern is irrelevant seeing as the extraction has been completed 100% . You can't hold it to same standards anymore
Click to expand...
Dojutsu can boost power, this is very obvious with stuff like Sharingan and Rinnegan. How does the extraction being complete mean anything in this discussion? There's no reason he can't just have an upgraded K1 and K2 now. We even see that when Momoshiki takes over, the pattern grows, so that is still relevant post-extraction.
karo_senpaii said:
2. Stop tagging fallacies. It's irrelevant. Again "absence of evidence is dismissal of tangent". Tenten does not have the Rasengan because there is no evidence supporting it. You don't need evidence for negative claims. I.e saying prove God does not exist. That's illogical and at this point it just feels like you're arguing for argument sake.
Click to expand...
That's what I was thinking actually. I can literally use the same argument against you. Absence of evidence is dismissal of tangent, so your lack of evidence for K2 Boruto not having Massive Rasengan means I can dismiss that. There are much better arguments, can we stop arguing over a very vague point
karo_senpaii said:
Odama rasengan is a trademark move specifically used by the author to show the vast power difference between karma boruto and borushiki. Boruto displaying such trademark is author intent showing he is as close as he ever was to borushiki power.
Click to expand...
You can interpret it like that, but that's not definitive nor emphasized in the series.
karo_senpaii said:
3. Whether he used it minimal times is irrelevant. You're arguing he specifically decided not to use a move that would help overwhelm his enemy yet was totally fine using it on someone who he specifically does not want to hurt i.e kawaki.
Click to expand...
It's very relevant. Out of the two times he used Rasengan, one of the times he couldn't have made it too big as that would injure Kawaki, and in the other he literally couldn't have made it big since it was a Vanishing Rasengan. So even if he did have Massive Rasengan, there were no opportunities for him to use it. Wdym fine using it on Kawaki?
karo_senpaii said:
Boruto was a significant threat I'm not arguing that. I specifically said boruto is relative to him but would lose 1v1 eventually coz of code abilities. You are arguing boruto will win in a 1v1
Click to expand...
There's no evidence of this. Code uses claw marks, and is still on the losing end. The longer the battle went on, the more Boruto would adjust to his claw marks, making Code's only real advantage fade over time.
karo_senpaii said:
4. Great he needed a super super odama rasengan but we were still specifically told that naruto held back so it won't kill her and yet even while holding back still rendered her unconscious. You're trying to argue that spsm cho cho odama rasengan (holding back) > Base naruto cho cho odama rasengan when you can't do that.
Click to expand...
...Except I can? Nothing you said is contradictory to my argument.
karo_senpaii said:
Holding back is holding back. You can't quantify it. There is no correlation between the to. Delta does not scale relative to anything.
Click to expand...
Except it's quantified pretty clearly. A much stronger form of Naruto used a comparably sized Rasengan to Base Naruto's strongest one and didn't kill Delta. I don't see what's controversial about it. At the very least there's no concrete argument that Base Naruto COULD kill Delta.
karo_senpaii said:
What we know for a fact that naruto spsm physicals can hurt her durability like a lot.
Click to expand...
Over time sure, but she tanked plenty of hits hits while still fighting just fine.
karo_senpaii said:
And base naruto cho cho odama rasengan scales up to a one shot level over his spsm physicals. End it there. We have not even touched sage mode.
Click to expand...
1. I already talked about why the Momoshiki example isn't the best
2. Even if this did apply to Momoshiki, that doesn't necessitate it being true for all opponents. There's no proof that every character's strength to durability ratio is the same, especially when you're comparing an alien to a cyborg. It's a fine assumption in general, but feats take priority over it.
karo_senpaii said:
5. Naruto punched him once and he was fine.
Click to expand...
He looks pretty hurt, moreso than Delta vs Naruto's average hits.
karo_senpaii said:
That scales his durability to naruto punch . No one says he tanked it totally but it's just like delta.
Click to expand...
If Naruto's punch had 10 power, Delta had 9 durability, and Momoshiki had 7 durability, this would still work and explain why Momoshiki can't survive Naruto's Oodama Rasengan while Delta can survive a stronger one.
karo_senpaii said:
Oh by the way what fatigued naruto jutsu overwhelmed was a fully fresh momo enhanced with chakra pills enhanced with his strongest tailed beast bomb type shit. You know the same weaker version that rendered spsm unconscious? And naruto Base cho cho odama rasengan overpowered both that and turned him to dust.
Click to expand...
Why is he fully fresh? He just got his strongest technique obliterated and was caught up in its explosion, resulting in him lying flat twitching on the ground. He recovered to some extent, but it's never stated that he's back to full power.
karo_senpaii said:
Anyway you look at it naruto super super odama rasengan in base is far above his spsm physicals. Like not even close.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, I definitely think it would mess Delta up, just not kill her.
karo_senpaii said:
6. She is nowhere near relative to the spsm version of naruto strongest base jutsu. You don't become relative by becoming unconscious while the person actively held back to not kill you.
Click to expand...
MinatoSparkle said:
I'm not saying her regular durability scales to the Rasengan, I'm saying that she's tough enough to survive it. Neither am I saying she scales to his absolute maximum power, but to the SPSM equivalent of Base Naruto's strongest shown Rasengan.
Click to expand...
We're kinda going in circles on this point
karo_senpaii said:
7. If he doesn't consider True Essence as his own then this would mean he is saying nerfed naruto and sasuke are just greater than his karma self. This just defeats your point of the narrative that there is a contradiction in the statement that he is weaker than both of them if he has control on the level of true essence
Click to expand...
I don't get what you're trying to say here. Yes I think TE Boruto>Nerfed Naruto/Sasuke>Karma Boruto, including the one that fought Kawaki (consistent with Sasuke threatening Kawaki's life with just a sword, not ninjutsu)
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Nah it's just treated as a large but unquantifiable increase

Dojutsu can boost power, this is very obvious with stuff like Sharingan and Rinnegan. How does the extraction being complete mean anything in this discussion? There's no reason he can't just have an upgraded K1 and K2 now. We even see that when Momoshiki takes over, the pattern grows, so that is still relevant post-extraction.

That's what I was thinking actually. I can literally use the same argument against you. Absence of evidence is dismissal of tangent, so your lack of evidence for K2 Boruto not having Massive Rasengan means I can dismiss that. There are much better arguments, can we stop arguing over a very vague point

You can interpret it like that, but that's not definitive nor emphasized in the series.

It's very relevant. Out of the two times he used Rasengan, one of the times he couldn't have made it too big as that would injure Kawaki, and in the other he literally couldn't have made it big since it was a Vanishing Rasengan. So even if he did have Massive Rasengan, there were no opportunities for him to use it. Wdym fine using it on Kawaki?

There's no evidence of this. Code uses claw marks, and is still on the losing end. The longer the battle went on, the more Boruto would adjust to his claw marks, making Code's only real advantage fade over time.

...Except I can? Nothing you said is contradictory to my argument.

Except it's quantified pretty clearly. A much stronger form of Naruto used a comparably sized Rasengan to Base Naruto's strongest one and didn't kill Delta. I don't see what's controversial about it. At the very least there's no concrete argument that Base Naruto COULD kill Delta.

Over time sure, but she tanked plenty of hits hits while still fighting just fine.

1. I already talked about why the Momoshiki example isn't the best
2. Even if this did apply to Momoshiki, that doesn't necessitate it being true for all opponents. There's no proof that every character's strength to durability ratio is the same, especially when you're comparing an alien to a cyborg. It's a fine assumption in general, but feats take priority over it.

He looks pretty hurt, moreso than Delta vs Naruto's average hits.

If Naruto's punch had 10 power, Delta had 9 durability, and Momoshiki had 7 durability, this would still work and explain why Momoshiki can't survive Naruto's Oodama Rasengan while Delta can survive a stronger one.

Why is he fully fresh? He just got his strongest technique obliterated and was caught up in its explosion, resulting in him lying flat twitching on the ground. He recovered to some extent, but it's never stated that he's back to full power.

I agree with this, I definitely think it would mess Delta up, just not kill her.


We're kinda going in circles on this point

I don't get what you're trying to say here. Yes I think TE Boruto>Nerfed Naruto/Sasuke>Karma Boruto, including the one that fought Kawaki (consistent with Sasuke threatening Kawaki's life with just a sword, not ninjutsu)
Click to expand...
1. It's a good thing we are talking about byakugan. Very genetic and no power boost. And you're proving my point more that the fusion changed everything you know. Momoshiki pattern reduced from a full karma and horn to the level true essence boruto pattern was. It makes sense the said true essence Itself It's pattern would change or something more than that but still less than momo.

2. Except I don't need evidence to prove he doesn't have it. Him never showing it makes the default assumption that he doesn't have it. Now if you want to prove he indeed has it , it is left for you to prove it. And it's not irrelevant. Odama rasengan is a trademark move the author specifically used to highlight the vast difference between boruto jutsu capacity even with karma and Momoshiki himself. Boruto being able to then use trademark jutsu after saying he can channel momo power better indicates he is as close as he ever was to momo power.

3. If it was 100% definitive we wouldn't be here arguing. But it is clear showing of jutsu superiority even taking into account prior to when momo started using it boruto was specifically told he can never have the chakra capacity for such jutsu.

4. You're proving my point. Why tell Kawaki to help him join the fight rather than just finish code of with a jutsu that can one shot code? Like why? He told Kawaki to step back that it is dangerous. At that point he should have used it immediately yet he went for a punch.

5. Context is key in that battle. Not only was Kawaki helping but has to hold back. If he does go all out he risks killing his one and only sacrifice since eida said hands of boruto. If we make a match up true essence boruto vs code right now code would win easily.

6. My brother at this point I have to doubt what we are reading. It could not kill Delta cos naruto chose not too. There is concrete evidence it would kill her why? NARUTO SAID SO. and it rendered her unconscious even while it was held back. She scales to absolutely nothing.

7. Overtime? Was a 5mins or less match with them hurting each other. Momo actually did much better than delta. He slammed kurama avatar to oblivion and naruto needed sasuke help.

8. This stuff is not that complex. Naruto fights a momoshiki that could survive his hits. A guy that his ninjustu renders him unconscious. All in spsm. He then makes a jutsu in base and said jutsu destroys a stronger version of Momoshiki ninjustu which could render him unconscious and then proceeds to one shot the guy that could take his hits.

It simply means naruto base ninjustu >>>>> spsm physicals. Up to and more than a one shot gap. if he uses same jutsu on someone that his spsm physicals injured he would one shot the person.

9. If you like try and compare what had more injuries it doesn't matter. Naruto was trying to kill one, naruto was not trying to kill another. And momo wasn't hurt from just that, he was hurt from naruto and sasuke attack.

10. You would have to prove what you said.

11. You're focusing on the little part that isn't the crux of the argument and leaving the actual argument.

12. It would turn her to rubble and even if you believe it doesn't she is still a goner. How do you then believe she loses to sage mode naruto when base naruto here is messing her up.

13. So you're admitting that he counts true essence as his power and the contradicting what you just said? Yeah this is not looking good.
Also sasuke sword chakra enhanced or not would damage kawaki.
 
karo_senpaii said:
1. It's a good thing we are talking about byakugan. Very genetic and no power boost. And you're proving my point more that the fusion changed everything you know. Momoshiki pattern reduced from a full karma and horn to the level true essence boruto pattern was. It makes sense the said true essence Itself It's pattern would change or something more than that but still less than momo.

2. Except I don't need evidence to prove he doesn't have it. Him never showing it makes the default assumption that he doesn't have it. Now if you want to prove he indeed has it , it is left for you to prove it. And it's not irrelevant. Odama rasengan is a trademark move the author specifically used to highlight the vast difference between boruto jutsu capacity even with karma and Momoshiki himself. Boruto being able to then use trademark jutsu after saying he can channel momo power better indicates he is as close as he ever was to momo power.

3. If it was 100% definitive we wouldn't be here arguing. But it is clear showing of jutsu superiority even taking into account prior to when momo started using it boruto was specifically told he can never have the chakra capacity for such jutsu.

4. You're proving my point. Why tell Kawaki to help him join the fight rather than just finish code of with a jutsu that can one shot code? Like why? He told Kawaki to step back that it is dangerous. At that point he should have used it immediately yet he went for a punch.

5. Context is key in that battle. Not only was Kawaki helping but has to hold back. If he does go all out he risks killing his one and only sacrifice since eida said hands of boruto. If we make a match up true essence boruto vs code right now code would win easily.

6. My brother at this point I have to doubt what we are reading. It could not kill Delta cos naruto chose not too. There is concrete evidence it would kill her why? NARUTO SAID SO. and it rendered her unconscious even while it was held back. She scales to absolutely nothing.

7. Overtime? Was a 5mins or less match with them hurting each other. Momo actually did much better than delta. He slammed kurama avatar to oblivion and naruto needed sasuke help.

8. This stuff is not that complex. Naruto fights a momoshiki that could survive his hits. A guy that his ninjustu renders him unconscious. All in spsm. He then makes a jutsu in base and said jutsu destroys a stronger version of Momoshiki ninjustu which could render him unconscious and then proceeds to one shot the guy that could take his hits.

It simply means naruto base ninjustu >>>>> spsm physicals. Up to and more than a one shot gap. if he uses same jutsu on someone that his spsm physicals injured he would one shot the person.

9. If you like try and compare what had more injuries it doesn't matter. Naruto was trying to kill one, naruto was not trying to kill another. And momo wasn't hurt from just that, he was hurt from naruto and sasuke attack.

10. You would have to prove what you said.

11. You're focusing on the little part that isn't the crux of the argument and leaving the actual argument.

12. It would turn her to rubble and even if you believe it doesn't she is still a goner. How do you then believe she loses to sage mode naruto when base naruto here is messing her up.

13. So you're admitting that he counts true essence as his power and the contradicting what you just said? Yeah this is not looking good.
Also sasuke sword chakra enhanced or not would damage kawaki.
Click to expand...
62161702_10157112852016006_5923877039357558784_n.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Apollonir.Scale
Naruto Hax Upgrading
2 3 4
Replies
120
Views
9K
Arc7Kuroi
Arc7Kuroi
WorldMike2B
Update for Boruto's page
Replies
4
Views
2K
karo_senpaii
karo_senpaii
XSOULOFCINDERX
Naruto Uzumaki and Sasuke Uchiha vs Madara Uchiha: Non-Six Paths Edition [7-0-0]
Replies
22
Views
3K
XSOULOFCINDERX
XSOULOFCINDERX
Xyra
  • Locked
𝐌𝐢𝐧𝐨𝐫 𝐮𝐩𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐞.
2
Replies
76
Views
5K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
WorldMike2B
Kawaki Recton 2
Replies
1
Views
2K
The_Alxhemist
The_Alxhemist
Back
Top