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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

MinatoSparkle said:
6lZ5Xc6.jpeg
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Ah, I forgot that Jigen and Isshiki were distinguished like that
 
Duedate8898 said:
Don't we have direct confirmation that Daemon is stronger than Isshiki though? Like outright, Code and those that followed are supposed to be stronger than him hence why they were all put away or limited becasuse Isshiki didn't tolerate this
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There is a scan that says "Stronger enemies await Boruto in the future." The Deamon referred to in that scan may be Deamon>Isshiki. But most likely that statement refers to the 5 Shinju he is currently fighting.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I mean he didn't touched Kawaki and Kawaki still got roasted? I don't think he needs to touch but killing intent may be trigger for his ability.
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Are you talking about when Kawaki tried to verify Daemons hax? It was brought to my attention that Daemon in that moment could have been touching Eida. We just don't see his hand. Or are you talking about when Code pulled him out against Kawaki? In that case he was touching Code.
 
HelloThere1089 said:
Are you talking about when Kawaki tried to verify Daemons hax? It was brought to my attention that Daemon in that moment could have been touching Eida. We just don't see his hand. Or are you talking about when Code pulled him out against Kawaki? In that case he was touching Code.
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So you are suggesting to activate his abilities he needs to touch someone? May be Idk.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Jura praised Shikadai like 4 times now?
5-lilmnj4JrL3-H-m.jpg
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I can't tell if Kishi is trying to set Shikadai up for something greater in the future or if he's just having Jura straight up glaze him, cuz Shikadai is definitely smart... but it's like.. what he's doing is pretty standard lol idk.

Though I think it's meant to highlight how much Jura is unaware of the intelligence of Shinobi and humanity in general. He's experiencing human combat for the first time and one of the first people he fights is someone like Shikadai. Evsn if it seems very miniscule to us, each calculated move Shikadai makes throws Jura in for a loop because he'd expect prey to act differently.

A similar instance happened in the Mitsuki arc in the anime when Team 10 fought a Fabrication and he was making the exact same comments, they were running, stalling, strategizing despite being in a massive disadvantage due to being far slower and weaker (other than Chocho) similar to what's happening in the manga rn.
 
I have mentioned this before, but is Boruto's shadow clones a counter to Kawaki's resonance? At least for current Boruto. I don't see why not.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
🤷‍♂️

I mean it's plain to see that it's not the same as what he used against Code, so it could just be a lesser version of channeling his power.

No, you're the one that claimed that he can't use it, I'm just saying it's unprovable either way so an argument can't be based around that.

I'm talking about here when Code was holding Kawaki. This and the Vanishing Rasengan are the only times he uses Rasengan at all in the fight. Also even with the use of his claw marks, he didn't have the upperhand. No she was conc erned throughout.

Size =/= strength. Base Kid Naruto's Rasengan is the same in appearance as SPSM Naruto's Normal Rasengan, but the power is orders of magnitude apart.

Yes he held back from his full power, but he still felt the need to use Super Super Oodama Rasengan, and kept that blasting her for quite a while to take her out, meaning Naruto's Hypothetical Strongest Rasengan>Delta's survivability (not the same as durability)~SPSM Super Super Oodama Rasengan>>Nerfed Naruto's Super Super Oodama Rasengan. Not to say Nerfed Naruto wouldn't do a lot of damage to her with the attack, he would, but she wouldn't be in nearly as bad a state.

Demonstrably not

Doesn't matter since Delta scales to SPSM Naruto's Rasengan.

Sure, so in overall combat ability TE Boruto~/~>Code~>Nerfed Naruto, so either way Boruto's statement doesn't make much sense as he indicates a sizeable gap between him and Naruto/Sasuke (thinks that even with him being a weakling, Naruto and Sasuke are worthy of being considered decent/strong fighters). I don't see why they wouldn't, when that's not tied to him having Kurama at all.
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1. Or it could be a higher version. As to which statements and feats imply as such
2. I can and will. Absence of evidence equals dismissal. We can as well follow you trail of thoughts and say tenten can use the rasengan. She just choses to never use it. he didn't use it means he doesn't have it in his arsenal. Simple and short.

3. Yeah and why didn't he use it before then. It's simple as he can't.
That's not being worried. "I wouldn't write him off" typically means don't underestimate him .

4. Who said size equals strength. I'm saying a base naruto cho odama rasengan while fatigued and drained one shotted someone that could fight on par with his spsm physicals.
5. No he simply needed it so as to overload her chakra capacity. All the rest you are doing is pure head canon.
6. Delta does not in fact scale to a rasengan thay left her unconscious even while the said user held back so as not to kill her. What exactly are you scaling at this point?
7. Now you're just contradicting yourself . This statement is after boruto said he could channel momo power better. Daemon fought base boruto so it simply means nerfed naruto> Base boruto which is obviously. If you mean that he is putting him over even when he uses momo power then you are implying boruto is scaling himself to true essence and feels he can use it but still can't be daemon. Choose one
 
karo_senpaii said:
1. Or it could be a higher version. As to which statements and feats imply as such
Click to expand...
The Karma pattern is clearly less developed and he doesn't even have the dojutsu. Very little reason to think it's stronger, especially by feats. That one statement is not clear enough to override everything against it being >TE
karo_senpaii said:
2. I can and will. Absence of evidence equals dismissal. We can as well follow you trail of thoughts and say tenten can use the rasengan. She just choses to never use it. he didn't use it means he doesn't have it in his arsenal. Simple and short.
Click to expand...
www.grammarly.com

Appeal to Ignorance Fallacy: Definition and Examples

The foundation of any logical argument is at least one credible, logical source to support it. You use a logical fallacy when you…
www.grammarly.com www.grammarly.com
en.wikipedia.org

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Also that Ten Ten example is not analogous whatsoever. If we were to compare that to what we're arguing, you'd basically be saying Ten Ten can't use the Rasengan and I'd be saying there's no proof either way so no conclusive stance can be maintained on it.
karo_senpaii said:
3. Yeah and why didn't he use it before then. It's simple as he can't.
Click to expand...
Bruh what I'm saying is that he didn't use the Rasengan in general much throughout the fight, and we obviously know he can use the Rasengan. The only times he chose to use Rasengan AT ALL were:
1. When Code was holding Kawaki and if Boruto made a big one there, Kawaki would be caught up in the blast
2. When he used a Vanishing Rasengan, which is an entirely different kind and there's no proof that even Post-Death Karma Boruto can make a Massive Vanishing Rasengan
karo_senpaii said:
That's not being worried. "I wouldn't write him off" typically means don't underestimate him .
Click to expand...
You're arguing over semantics, the point is that Boruto was a significant threat to him
karo_senpaii said:
4. Who said size equals strength. I'm saying a base naruto cho odama rasengan while fatigued and drained one shotted someone that could fight on par with his spsm physicals.
Click to expand...
In the manga Momoshiki never did well against Naruto physically.
karo_senpaii said:
5. No he simply needed it so as to overload her chakra capacity. All the rest you are doing is pure head canon.
Click to expand...
He overloaded her absorption capacity with just a regular Super Oodama Rasengan. Even after her eyes lost all functionality and there was no risk of her absorbing chakra, he felt the need to make it much bigger to take her out. Nothing I said was headcanon, it's literally just shown and stated.
karo_senpaii said:
6. Delta does not in fact scale to a rasengan thay left her unconscious even while the said user held back so as not to kill her. What exactly are you scaling at this point?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying her regular durability scales to the Rasengan, I'm saying that she's tough enough to survive it. Neither am I saying she scales to his absolute maximum power, but to the SPSM equivalent of Base Naruto's strongest shown Rasengan.
karo_senpaii said:
7. Now you're just contradicting yourself . This statement is after boruto said he could channel momo power better. Daemon fought base boruto so it simply means nerfed naruto> Base boruto which is obviously. If you mean that he is putting him over even when he uses momo power then you are implying boruto is scaling himself to true essence and feels he can use it but still can't be daemon. Choose one
Click to expand...
Or he just doesn't consider True Essence as it's not something he feels ok using at this point, even if he has better control than before. Which we see as he doesn't use it when Kawaki's trying to murder him, and opts for a Karma version with a less developed pattern and no dojutsu.
 
Thought it was like times 3 or something like that based off the curse mark? I know it got removed, though I don't know if it got added back in
 
There are quite a few problems with SM multiplier with our current scaling.

1. Sannin scaling is a lot more convoluted since now SM Jiraiya has to be 10x stronger than Base Jiraiya.

2. Madara's PS is > Sasuke's PS, who scales to BSM Naruto. (Orochimaru states Sasuke is going to surpass Madara, implying he hasn't) and 100% Kurama is more or less comparable to Madara's PS. This means that 100% Kurama would have to be >10x stronger than 50% Kurama.

3. SM Alive Hashirama now hilariously demolishes Juubito.

Like imagine this scaling

2nd form Juubi (98 TT) = 50% Kurama = KCM2 Naruto < BSM Naruto, EMS Sasuke's PS (980 TT) < Madara's PS, Base Hashirama Mokuton, 100% Kurama (980 TT) < Juubito (1960 TT) < Alive SM Hashirama (9800 TT)

Hashirama is stated to be revived at close to his original power, meaning Edo SM Hashirama is at least 4900 TT.

Doesn't work, we would have to overhaul everything.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
The Karma pattern is clearly less developed and he doesn't even have the dojutsu. Very little reason to think it's stronger, especially by feats. That one statement is not clear enough to override everything against it being >TE

www.grammarly.com

Appeal to Ignorance Fallacy: Definition and Examples

The foundation of any logical argument is at least one credible, logical source to support it. You use a logical fallacy when you…
www.grammarly.com www.grammarly.com
en.wikipedia.org

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Also that Ten Ten example is not analogous whatsoever. If we were to compare that to what we're arguing, you'd basically be saying Ten Ten can't use the Rasengan and I'd be saying there's no proof either way so no conclusive stance can be maintained on it.

Bruh what I'm saying is that he didn't use the Rasengan in general much throughout the fight, and we obviously know he can use the Rasengan. The only times he chose to use Rasengan AT ALL were:
1. When Code was holding Kawaki and if Boruto made a big one there, Kawaki would be caught up in the blast
2. When he used a Vanishing Rasengan, which is an entirely different kind and there's no proof that even Post-Death Karma Boruto can make a Massive Vanishing Rasengan

You're arguing over semantics, the point is that Boruto was a significant threat to him

In the manga Momoshiki never did well against Naruto physically.

He overloaded her absorption capacity with just a regular Super Oodama Rasengan. Even after her eyes lost all functionality and there was no risk of her absorbing chakra, he felt the need to make it much bigger to take her out. Nothing I said was headcanon, it's literally just shown and stated.

I'm not saying her regular durability scales to the Rasengan, I'm saying that she's tough enough to survive it. Neither am I saying she scales to his absolute maximum power, but to the SPSM equivalent of Base Naruto's strongest shown Rasengan.

Or he just doesn't consider True Essence as it's not something he feels ok using at this point, even if he has better control than before. Which we see as he doesn't use it when Kawaki's trying to murder him, and opts for a Karma version with a less developed pattern and no dojutsu.
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1. Not having the dojutsu is irrelevant to power as dojutsu are genetic traits. And the karma pattern is irrelevant seeing as the extraction has been completed 100% . You can't hold it to same standards anymore
2. Stop tagging fallacies. It's irrelevant. Again "absence of evidence is dismissal of tangent". Tenten does not have the Rasengan because there is no evidence supporting it. You don't need evidence for negative claims. I.e saying prove God does not exist. That's illogical and at this point it just feels like you're arguing for argument sake.
Odama rasengan is a trademark move specifically used by the author to show the vast power difference between karma boruto and borushiki. Boruto displaying such trademark is author intent showing he is as close as he ever was to borushiki power.

3. Whether he used it minimal times is irrelevant. You're arguing he specifically decided not to use a move that would help overwhelm his enemy yet was totally fine using it on someone who he specifically does not want to hurt i.e kawaki.

Boruto was a significant threat I'm not arguing that. I specifically said boruto is relative to him but would lose 1v1 eventually coz of code abilities. You are arguing boruto will win in a 1v1

4. Great he needed a super super odama rasengan but we were still specifically told that naruto held back so it won't kill her and yet even while holding back still rendered her unconscious. You're trying to argue that spsm cho cho odama rasengan (holding back) > Base naruto cho cho odama rasengan when you can't do that. Holding back is holding back. You can't quantify it. There is no correlation between the to. Delta does not scale relative to anything.
What we know for a fact that naruto spsm physicals can hurt her durability like a lot. And base naruto cho cho odama rasengan scales up to a one shot level over his spsm physicals. End it there. We have not even touched sage mode.

5. Naruto punched him once and he was fine. That scales his durability to naruto punch . No one says he tanked it totally but it's just like delta. Oh by the way what fatigued naruto jutsu overwhelmed was a fully fresh momo enhanced with chakra pills enhanced with his strongest tailed beast bomb type shit. You know the same weaker version that rendered spsm unconscious? And naruto Base cho cho odama rasengan overpowered both that and turned him to dust. Anyway you look at it naruto super super odama rasengan in base is far above his spsm physicals. Like not even close.

6. She is nowhere near relative to the spsm version of naruto strongest base jutsu. You don't become relative by becoming unconscious while the person actively held back to not kill you.

7. If he doesn't consider True Essence as his own then this would mean he is saying nerfed naruto and sasuke are just greater than his karma self. This just defeats your point of the narrative that there is a contradiction in the statement that he is weaker than both of them if he has control on the level of true essence
 
Padaruyos said:
There are quite a few problems with SM multiplier with our current scaling.

1. Sannin scaling is a lot more convoluted since now SM Jiraiya has to be 10x stronger than Base Jiraiya.

2. Madara's PS is > Sasuke's PS, who scales to BSM Naruto. (Orochimaru states Sasuke is going to surpass Madara, implying he hasn't) and 100% Kurama is more or less comparable to Madara's PS. This means that 100% Kurama would have to be >10x stronger than 50% Kurama.

3. SM Alive Hashirama now hilariously demolishes Juubito.

Like imagine this scaling

2nd form Juubi (98 TT) = 50% Kurama = KCM2 Naruto < BSM Naruto, EMS Sasuke's PS (980 TT) < Madara's PS, Base Hashirama Mokuton, 100% Kurama (980 TT) < Juubito (1960 TT) < Alive SM Hashirama (9800 TT)

Hashirama is stated to be revived at close to his original power, meaning Edo SM Hashirama is at least 4900 TT.

Doesn't work, we would have to overhaul everything.
Click to expand...
Or you could just scale juubito to hashirama and downscale from there? Considering we have no calcs for the juubi strongest tbb there is no issue if juubito is that high and you bring everyone downwards from there
 
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