Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[TFO]

Spoilers Monday/Tuesday Basically?

 

[Stryker861]

Do yall have any predictions for what boruto's new rasengan will do ability wise

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Thanks a lot top G, but

That's just it, I don't really think it scales to the TBB tbh. It wasn't fully formed, and at the moment of the clash, Kurama had Kushina's seals tightened on him, making him weaker than the moment his chakra made Kushina go V2. But anyway, even if the Rasengan scales to V2 Kushina/Kurama levels, it really ain't changing much of anything in my opinion.

Even if it wasn't fully formed, it was still pretty big at that point, around the size of the one that blasted Hashirama's Wood Dragon for example. And considering Kushina couldn't even power Kurama down from V1, I highly doubt that if her chains actually lowered his AP, it'd be by any significant amount.

But yeah, Hashirama can deal with V2 Kushina level obviously.

KCM Naruto and the Raikage are indeed faster than Hashirama, yeah. Like, these top tier speedsters are insane when using their full power Shunshin. KCM2 Naruto's Shuunshin is pretty nutty as well. But like I said, it's just one facet, one advantage. Overall, Hashirama slams all of them in a fight, at least imo.

So how come BSM Naruto can't just blitz Hashirama? Or Base Hashirama for that matter, since you think Base Hashirama~EMS Madara>SEMS Sasuke~BSM Naruto. I get KCM2 Naruto as he has feats against Madara, but is there really anything showing Ay/KCM Naruto>Founders other than Minato scaling?

True, but I didn't think it mattered and here's why. I kinda wanted to stick to combat stamina feats, since this is a fight scenario, not necessarily a pure endurance test (which Hashirama would win either way, but shhhh). And I do think there is a bit of a distinction between these two types of stamina. For example, Akatsuki members, including the likes of SICK ITACHI, can keep pumping chakra into a sealing Jutsu for 3 whole ass days. An impressive feat, no doubt, but I think I speak for all of us when I say that there is no way in hell any of em are gonna last in a high level battle for that long. Maybe Kisame would using Samehada, and the Zombie duo due to their.....zombiness, but otherwise I think you get what I mean lol.

I wouldn't really say that's the same thing since in Minato's case, Kurama is fighting to break out of the seal the whole time, so it's more of an active effort.

Cool opinion, but unfortunately the series disagrees with you.

In both of those cases Madara is in 3T. The first time, his eyes aren't directly shown, but he activates EMS in the very next page. And in the second, you can just blatantly see that his right eye is in 3T. And the difference between 3T and EMS is quite significant. Took Sasuke from Kinshiki level to Fused Momoshiki level, which is more than a 2x increase.

I didn't say that he can't selectively choose what to teleport out of the things he's in direct/indirect contact with (at least I don't think I did, it has been a while since I wrote that script lol, so mb if I did mess up on that). I think the point I was making was that he can't just randomly teleport something he's not making physical contact with, whether it's direct or indirect. All the examples you brought up fall under that rule. So even if it's something he's not touching himself, if the object is touching something that he's in contact with, then I believe it still counts.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, basically you're saying he can't just point at something a mile away and say "Goodbye," in which case I absolutely agree lol. I thought you meant he can't separate Hashirama from his Wood Style.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Thanks a lot top G, but

Are you a slayer of the Uchiha, or are you an Uchiha who's a slayer?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

UchussySlayer69

 

[Ped2018]

US69

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yes.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Yes.

UchussySlayer69 Kryptonite

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yes, indeed.

 

[TFO]

Do yall have any predictions for what boruto's new rasengan will do ability wise

Basically a invisible barrier that prevents Codes clawmarks from touching him.

 

[TFO]

I'll be honest... Big Opportunity to reinsert Orochimaru back into the manga:

Spoiler

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Why is that spoilered

 

[TFO]

Why is that spoilered

I thought it would be too big to leave as is on the page.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

mmmmmmmmmmmmk, but yeah sure

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Even if it wasn't fully formed, it was still pretty big at that point, around the size of the one that blasted Hashirama's Wood Dragon for example. And considering Kushina couldn't even power Kurama down from V1, I highly doubt that if her chains actually lowered his AP, it'd be by any significant amount.

I feel like you're kinda missing the point. Interrupting an incomplete attack is one of the classic tropes of stopping an attack before it reaches its peak, thus destroying it in a more efficient manner without having to directly stack up to its full potential. This age-old trope is present in Naruto, too, and I think it applies to Bijuu Bombs specifically. We've seen a few times that incomplete Bijuu bombs can be rather unstable, and are quite easy to break down. Regardless of the amount of chakra that was put into this particular Bijuu bomb, or how powerful it would've potentially been, there really is no reason to scale Minato's Rasengan to it when:
a) As previously mentioned, the clash was against an attack that was in the middle of being formed. I think that makes it more unstable and easier to counter, personally.
b) Kurama had 2 seals being applied to him at the time of the clash, so even assuming that the number of tails Kushina had at the time perfectly translated 1:1 to Kurama's own power within Kushina, then we're still left with the problem of there being no surefire way to know how strong Kurama actually was in that particular instance. The fact that we didn't even see how many tails Kushina had in that moment makes this even more difficult to determine accurately. Sure, you can go with a highball and say "we should just go with the last time we saw Kushina's tails", and while that's not objectively wrong, it's not an objective truth either.
c) Another issue I have is that we don't even really see how the clash went, or the immediate aftermath of it. For all we know Minato could've lost that clash lol. I mean, given that he was knocked out for a while afterwards, I don't think that would be a crazy leap tbh.

Anyway, if you wanna use this scaling, that's fine. I even said so in the video iirc. It's not objectively wrong or anything, and I don't find it particularly egregious or offensive like I do with certain Minato wank metas. I just personally find it kinda weak, and don't think it's the most solid or objective scaling there is. When there's a lot of factors that make something seem kinda shaky, my first instinct is to kinda ignore it altogether, but I understand and respect how other people can view these things differently since, again, they're far from objective.

But yeah, Hashirama can deal with V2 Kushina level obviously.

Ummm, well, yeah, glad we agree on that lol. The previous rant feels kinda pointless now since we're basically arguing inconsequential semantics lmao.

So how come BSM Naruto can't just blitz Hashirama? Or Base Hashirama for that matter, since you think Base Hashirama~EMS Madara>SEMS Sasuke~BSM Naruto. I get KCM2 Naruto as he has feats against Madara, but is there really anything showing Ay/KCM Naruto>Founders other than Minato scaling?

You're looking at this in a very binary way. A character can have a speed advantage without "blitzing" someone. Like, it's not that hard to imagine since it quite literally applies to both Minato and Tobirama. Both are faster than Hashirama, and both are still much weaker. You even agree that both lose to Hashirama. So as you can see, it's just one of those things where speed is not really the end all be all in Naruto. Honestly, I'd be hard pressed to remember a major battle where speed alone decided the outcome. And it's not like we haven't seen instances of speed advantages being present in battles, yet didn't impact the fight all that much, or at least didn't solely decide the outcome. Gaara vs Lee comes to mind, where Lee was MUCH faster, but still lost in the end because there's simply more to fights than speed alone. Other instances we can look at are the two major Hebi Sasuke battles against Deidara and Itachi. He had a speed advantage over both of them, but they still managed to keep up with him just fine. Hell, we have cases like the Raikage being clearly faster than Madara, with Madara praising his speed, and then further enhancing that speed through Onoki's magic to the point of being able to actually blitz Madara; Yet Madara was still able to fight him and overwhelm him for hours on end.
Look, speed is an advantage in Naruto, but unless the difference is, like, actually absurd, it rarely becomes debilitating. And a character can be overall superior to another without necessarily being better at absolutely everything, or being superior in every single individual stat. This ain't Dragon Ball where power level encompasses absolutely everything. I think the reason this is the case is that chakra is a bit more nuanced than systems like Ki. What I mean is that since these characters' stats are not only determined by sheer chakra, but also by other factors such as their skill at chakra control. It's why characters like Tsunade and Sakura can specifically get so strong, even when they don't necessarily have the highest chakra reserves around. I also think it's why certain characters are particularly renowned for their speed, because they have extremely high skill with the body flicker technique. I think that's why characters like the Raikage, Minato, KCM Naruto, Shisui, and so on are so special and fast. They're fast normally, but not really that different to any of the other top tiers on their level, which is why in most encounters these characters seem to just vaguely keep up with each other. It's when they use their top speed with shuunshin that we truly see a significant difference.
Of course, there's an exception to every rule, and I'm sure you can pull counter examples to what I said, but that's just it. There really isn't any set rule to this stuff. So yeah, I don't really think that there's much of an issue with a character being overall "inferior" to another, but still have an advantage in a certain area, such as speed/strength/intelligence/whatever.

I wouldn't really say that's the same thing since in Minato's case, Kurama is fighting to break out of the seal the whole time, so it's more of an active effort.

I really don't think it's all that different tbh. Kurama is still sealed, Minato's just reinforcing it. It's similar in the sense that, much like the Akatsuki dudes, he's just standing in place and applying chakra into a form of Fuinjutsu for an extended period of time. Again, a very notable stamina feat in both cases, but not really the best indication of how long they can maintain a high level battle against an equal or superior opponent imo.

In both of those cases Madara is in 3T. The first time, his eyes aren't directly shown, but he activates EMS in the very next page. And in the second, you can just blatantly see that his right eye is in 3T. And the difference between 3T and EMS is quite significant. Took Sasuke from Kinshiki level to Fused Momoshiki level, which is more than a 2x increase.

Ehh, with the first one I'm not gonna get into semantics cause we just don't know for sure. But for the second one, it's definitely an art error. He's had his Rinnegan active for like damn near the past 100 chapters, so it'd be pretty hilarious to think that he'd deactivate it specifically for the split second in which he clashes with Hashirama, and then turn it back on. It's hilarious to think about, but that doesn't make it any less asinine.
Anyway, semantics aside, the main thing I take issue with is the whole "Madara would slam" thing. I don't care if he's slightly stronger than or weaker than base Hashi. I think they're overall comparable in all of their forms. They've just been stated to be equal on so many occasions, and we've never seen evidence to the contrary, ever. If anything, the only implication we ever get is that Hashirama might be the stronger one. Whether that's holistically, base to base, or with certain forms/techniques, it doesn't matter much to me. The main idea is that they're just comparable all in all. I don't think Madara slams any version of Hashirama, but I don't think any version of Hashi slams either, including Sage Mode. You just don't fight someone on equal footing for 24 hours until you both damn near collapse from exhaustion if you could just "slam" your opponent. So yeah, that's mainly my thing. As for the Burrito shit you brought up, I'd really just rather not get into that stuff if it's all the same to you lol.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, basically you're saying he can't just point at something a mile away and say "Goodbye," in which case I absolutely agree lol. I thought you meant he can't separate Hashirama from his Wood Style.

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying lol.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Average UchussySlayery69 VS Minato"Youtastesogood"Sparkle Debate

 

[BlackeJan]

I feel like you're kinda missing the point. Interrupting an incomplete attack is one of the classic tropes of stopping an attack before it reaches its peak, thus destroying it in a more efficient manner without having to directly stack up to its full potential. This age-old trope is present in Naruto, too, and I think it applies to Bijuu Bombs specifically. We've seen a few times that incomplete Bijuu bombs can be rather unstable, and are quite easy to break down. Regardless of the amount of chakra that was put into this particular Bijuu bomb, or how powerful it would've potentially been, there really is no reason to scale Minato's Rasengan to it when:
a) As previously mentioned, the clash was against an attack that was in the middle of being formed. I think that makes it more unstable and easier to counter, personally.
b) Kurama had 2 seals being applied to him at the time of the clash, so even assuming that the number of tails Kushina had at the time perfectly translated 1:1 to Kurama's own power within Kushina, then we're still left with the problem of there being no surefire way to know how strong Kurama actually was in that particular instance. The fact that we didn't even see how many tails Kushina had in that moment makes this even more difficult to determine accurately. Sure, you can go with a highball and say "we should just go with the last time we saw Kushina's tails", and while that's not objectively wrong, it's not an objective truth either.
c) Another issue I have is that we don't even really see how the clash went, or the immediate aftermath of it. For all we know Minato could've lost that clash lol. I mean, given that he was knocked out for a while afterwards, I don't think that would be a crazy leap tbh.

Anyway, if you wanna use this scaling, that's fine. I even said so in the video iirc. It's not objectively wrong or anything, and I don't find it particularly egregious or offensive like I do with certain Minato wank metas. I just personally find it kinda weak, and don't think it's the most solid or objective scaling there is. When there's a lot of factors that make something seem kinda shaky, my first instinct is to kinda ignore it altogether, but I understand and respect how other people can view these things differently since, again, they're far from objective.

Ummm, well, yeah, glad we agree on that lol. The previous rant feels kinda pointless now since we're basically arguing inconsequential semantics lmao.

You're looking at this in a very binary way. A character can have a speed advantage without "blitzing" someone. Like, it's not that hard to imagine since it quite literally applies to both Minato and Tobirama. Both are faster than Hashirama, and both are still much weaker. You even agree that both lose to Hashirama. So as you can see, it's just one of those things where speed is not really the end all be all in Naruto. Honestly, I'd be hard pressed to remember a major battle where speed alone decided the outcome. And it's not like we haven't seen instances of speed advantages being present in battles, yet didn't impact the fight all that much, or at least didn't solely decide the outcome. Gaara vs Lee comes to mind, where Lee was MUCH faster, but still lost in the end because there's simply more to fights than speed alone. Other instances we can look at are the two major Hebi Sasuke battles against Deidara and Itachi. He had a speed advantage over both of them, but they still managed to keep up with him just fine. Hell, we have cases like the Raikage being clearly faster than Madara, with Madara praising his speed, and then further enhancing that speed through Onoki's magic to the point of being able to actually blitz Madara; Yet Madara was still able to fight him and overwhelm him for hours on end.
Look, speed is an advantage in Naruto, but unless the difference is, like, actually absurd, it rarely becomes debilitating. And a character can be overall superior to another without necessarily being better at absolutely everything, or being superior in every single individual stat. This ain't Dragon Ball where power level encompasses absolutely everything. I think the reason this is the case is that chakra is a bit more nuanced than systems like Ki. What I mean is that since these characters' stats are not only determined by sheer chakra, but also by other factors such as their skill at chakra control. It's why characters like Tsunade and Sakura can specifically get so strong, even when they don't necessarily have the highest chakra reserves around. I also think it's why certain characters are particularly renowned for their speed, because they have extremely high skill with the body flicker technique. I think that's why characters like the Raikage, Minato, KCM Naruto, Shisui, and so on are so special and fast. They're fast normally, but not really that different to any of the other top tiers on their level, which is why in most encounters these characters seem to just vaguely keep up with each other. It's when they use their top speed with shuunshin that we truly see a significant difference.
Of course, there's an exception to every rule, and I'm sure you can pull counter examples to what I said, but that's just it. There really isn't any set rule to this stuff. So yeah, I don't really think that there's much of an issue with a character being overall "inferior" to another, but still have an advantage in a certain area, such as speed/strength/intelligence/whatever.

I really don't think it's all that different tbh. Kurama is still sealed, Minato's just reinforcing it. It's similar in the sense that, much like the Akatsuki dudes, he's just standing in place and applying chakra into a form of Fuinjutsu for an extended period of time. Again, a very notable stamina feat in both cases, but not really the best indication of how long they can maintain a high level battle against an equal or superior opponent imo.

Ehh, with the first one I'm not gonna get into semantics cause we just don't know for sure. But for the second one, it's definitely an art error. He's had his Rinnegan active for like damn near the past 100 chapters, so it'd be pretty hilarious to think that he'd deactivate it specifically for the split second in which he clashes with Hashirama, and then turn it back on. It's hilarious to think about, but that doesn't make it any less asinine.
Anyway, semantics aside, the main thing I take issue with is the whole "Madara would slam" thing. I don't care if he's slightly stronger than or weaker than base Hashi. I think they're overall comparable in all of their forms. They've just been stated to be equal on so many occasions, and we've never seen evidence to the contrary, ever. If anything, the only implication we ever get is that Hashirama might be the stronger one. Whether that's holistically, base to base, or with certain forms/techniques, it doesn't matter much to me. The main idea is that they're just comparable all in all. I don't think Madara slams any version of Hashirama, but I don't think any version of Hashi slams either, including Sage Mode. You just don't fight someone on equal footing for 24 hours until you both damn near collapse from exhaustion if you could just "slam" your opponent. So yeah, that's mainly my thing. As for the Burrito shit you brought up, I'd really just rather not get into that stuff if it's all the same to you lol.

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying lol.

WHERE HAVE YA BEEN

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y’all typin a lot

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Y’all typin a lot

What can I say? Giant text walls are our love language.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

What can I say? Giant text walls are our love language.

Readying fingers for typing

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

What can I say

Except you’re whale cum

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Except you’re whale cum

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Except you’re whale cum

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

What can I say? are our love language.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Real

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I feel like you're kinda missing the point.

Ur mom's missing the point .

Interrupting an incomplete attack is one of the classic tropes of stopping an attack before it reaches its peak, thus destroying it in a more efficient manner without having to directly stack up to its full potential. This age-old trope is present in Naruto, too, and I think it applies to Bijuu Bombs specifically. We've seen a few times that incomIt'plete Bijuu bombs can be rather unstable, and are quite easy to break down.

Ehhhh those really aren't the same thing. It's not someone actually clashing with a Bijuudama to neutralize it, in the first case Kurama's Bijuudama breaks down before it explodes, and in the second Naruto just let go of the chakra.

Regardless of the amount of chakra that was put into this particular Bijuu bomb, or how powerful it would've potentially been, there really is no reason to scale Minato's Rasengan to it when:
a) As previously mentioned, the clash was against an attack that was in the middle of being formed. I think that makes it more unstable and easier to counter, personally.

A still forming Bijuudama from a weaker character was enough to hurt FP Tendo despite him pulling Naruto away.

b) Kurama had 2 seals being applied to him at the time of the clash, so even assuming that the number of tails Kushina had at the time perfectly translated 1:1 to Kurama's own power within Kushina, then we're still left with the problem of there being no surefire way to know how strong Kurama actually was in that particular instance. The fact that we didn't even see how many tails Kushina had in that moment makes this even more difficult to determine accurately. Sure, you can go with a highball and say "we should just go with the last time we saw Kushina's tails", and while that's not objectively wrong, it's not an objective truth either.

Minato's seal was clearly not enough given that Kurama still powered to V2, and the seal had physically disappeared by that point anyways meaning it wasn't effective, either that or Minato temporarily stopped focusing on that to fight Kurama. And it's pretty objective that even with Kushina's seal around him, Kurama's Bijuudama was still getting BIGGER, meaning that Kushina wasn't making that weaker, just slowing him down at best.

c) Another issue I have is that we don't even really see how the clash went, or the immediate aftermath of it. For all we know Minato could've lost that clash lol. I mean, given that he was knocked out for a while afterwards, I don't think that would be a crazy leap tbh.

Bruh that's just impossible After the clash we see Kushina's completely back to normal, meaning his Rasengan was sufficient to push Kurama back into his seal. If Minato had actually lost, Kurama would've just picked up Minato's unconscious body and tore him in half then tail stabbed Kushina next like he was originally going to. The worst you can say is that it was a tie since Minato lost consciousness and Kurama failed in getting out.

Anyway, if you wanna use this scaling, that's fine. I even said so in the video iirc. It's not objectively wrong or anything, and I don't find it particularly egregious or offensive like I do with certain Minato wank metas. I just personally find it kinda weak, and don't think it's the most solid or objective scaling there is. When there's a lot of factors that make something seem kinda shaky, my first instinct is to kinda ignore it altogether, but I understand and respect how other people can view these things differently since, again, they're far from objective.

Ummm, well, yeah, glad we agree on that lol. The previous rant feels kinda pointless now since we're basically arguing inconsequential semantics lmao.

Not all about the conclusion, the arguments matter too

You're looking at this in a very binary way. A character can have a speed advantage without "blitzing" someone. Like, it's not that hard to imagine since it quite literally applies to both Minato and Tobirama. Both are faster than Hashirama, and both are still much weaker. You even agree that both lose to Hashirama. So as you can see, it's just one of those things where speed is not really the end all be all in Naruto. Honestly, I'd be hard pressed to remember a major battle where speed alone decided the outcome. And it's not like we haven't seen instances of speed advantages being present in battles, yet didn't impact the fight all that much, or at least didn't solely decide the outcome. Gaara vs Lee comes to mind, where Lee was MUCH faster, but still lost in the end because there's simply more to fights than speed alone. Other instances we can look at are the two major Hebi Sasuke battles against Deidara and Itachi. He had a speed advantage over both of them, but they still managed to keep up with him just fine. Hell, we have cases like the Raikage being clearly faster than Madara, with Madara praising his speed, and then further enhancing that speed through Onoki's magic to the point of being able to actually blitz Madara; Yet Madara was still able to fight him and overwhelm him for hours on end.

I mean personally I think Minato/Tobirama>SM Hashirama is debatable but not really relevant to my point, since BSM Naruto isn't just somewhat faster than the Raikage and KCM Naruto, he's massively faster. A faster KCM Naruto than the one who outran V2 Ay got badly blitzed by Unstable Juubito, while BSM Naruto was tracking and keeping up with Stable Juubito.

Look, speed is an advantage in Naruto, but unless the difference is, like, actually absurd, it rarely becomes debilitating. And a character can be overall superior to another without necessarily being better at absolutely everything, or being superior in every single individual stat. This ain't Dragon Ball where power level encompasses absolutely everything. I think the reason this is the case is that chakra is a bit more nuanced than systems like Ki. What I mean is that since these characters' stats are not only determined by sheer chakra, but also by other factors such as their skill at chakra control. It's why characters like Tsunade and Sakura can specifically get so strong, even when they don't necessarily have the highest chakra reserves around. I also think it's why certain characters are particularly renowned for their speed, because they have extremely high skill with the body flicker technique. I think that's why characters like the Raikage, Minato, KCM Naruto, Shisui, and so on are so special and fast. They're fast normally, but not really that different to any of the other top tiers on their level, which is why in most encounters these characters seem to just vaguely keep up with each other. It's when they use their top speed with shuunshin that we truly see a significant difference.

Their combat speed is exceptional too (cept maybe Shisui, he's kinda meh), their Shunshin just seem the most impressive cause for literally any character that's their top speed.

Of course, there's an exception to every rule, and I'm sure you can pull counter examples to what I said, but that's just it. There really isn't any set rule to this stuff. So yeah, I don't really think that there's much of an issue with a character being overall "inferior" to another, but still have an advantage in a certain area, such as speed/strength/intelligence/whatever.

I really don't think it's all that different tbh. Kurama is still sealed, Minato's just reinforcing it. It's similar in the sense that, much like the Akatsuki dudes, he's just standing in place and applying chakra into a form of Fuinjutsu for an extended period of time. Again, a very notable stamina feat in both cases, but not really the best indication of how long they can maintain a high level battle against an equal or superior opponent imo.

Holding a door closed when someone's constantly slamming against it is harder than just passing unconscious bodies along in an assembly line for the same period of time. I doubt Minato could fight as long as he can maintain a seal, but I imagine he can still fight for a long time even at high levels.

Ehh, with the first one I'm not gonna get into semantics cause we just don't know for sure.

I mean is there really any other reason there'd be a panel with emphasis on Madara's eyes and a dojutsu sound effect if he wasn't using an MS ability?

But for the second one, it's definitely an art error. He's had his Rinnegan active for like damn near the past 100 chapters, so it'd be pretty hilarious to think that he'd deactivate it specifically for the split second in which he clashes with Hashirama, and then turn it back on. It's hilarious to think about, but that doesn't make it any less asinine.

Idk if it's necessarily that he CHOSE to deactivate it. The God Tree had recently sprouted so maybe it stole some of his chakra and reverted his right eye Rinnegan to 3T. Would also explain Hashirama being back in base, but still having some senjutsu chakra left over. Base Hashirama~3T Madara, Partial Senjutsu Hashirama~3T Rinnegan Madara, and SM Hashirama~EMS/Dual Rinnegan Madara fits together quite nicely, don't you think?

Anyway, semantics aside, the main thing I take issue with is the whole "Madara would slam" thing. I don't care if he's slightly stronger than or weaker than base Hashi. I think they're overall comparable in all of their forms. They've just been stated to be equal on so many occasions, and we've never seen evidence to the contrary, ever. If anything, the only implication we ever get is that Hashirama might be the stronger one. Whether that's holistically, base to base, or with certain forms/techniques, it doesn't matter much to me. The main idea is that they're just comparable all in all. I don't think Madara slams any version of Hashirama, but I don't think any version of Hashi slams either, including Sage Mode. You just don't fight someone on equal footing for 24 hours until you both damn near collapse from exhaustion if you could just "slam" your opponent. So yeah, that's mainly my thing. As for the Burrito shit you brought up, I'd really just rather not get into that stuff if it's all the same to you lol.

Ig the main difference between us there is that I think SM and EMS are huge amps. I mean EMS (not quite the same since it's Base to EMS rather than 3T to EMS, but still) seemingly took Sasuke from Base Naruto level to rivalling MKCM Naruto. It's totally fine for them to be relative in their respective forms, but the strongest version of one slams the weaker version of the other.

Uhhhh I mean sure ig but it does exist and is valid imo.

Yes, that's precisely what I'm saying lol.

Glad we're on the same page

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Also Casual Kushina>Wary Base Naruto

 

[Deceived3596]

I love it when Tdjwo and Wrath_of_Itachi debate about who is the strongest strawhat in Bleach.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Ur mom's missing the point .

Spoiler

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[TFO]

I'll keep saying this... at the end of the day, the "Rasengan" by Minato, the "Biju-Dama" by Kurama and the "Chains" from Kushina are POINTLESS. Their visages in Kushina's inner-world are just representations of their chakra. It doesn't matter whether or not Kurama used a TBB because he as shown is still representative of 7-8 Tails of Chakra, be it him overpowering Kushina with his strength or otherwise. Minato's body and Rasengan are just representations of his chakra inside her. It wouldn't matter if he used a Futon, Raiton, Katon, etc...Hell, he could pull out a Kamehameha for all I care, it doesn't change the context.

100% Kurama at 7-8 Tails of Chakra is beyond the level that Kushina's own Chakra could suppress at that time period. The seal from Minato was enough to stop the leak of Chakra, preventing the complete unravelling of the seal and the chakra he projected into her in the form of himself with a Rasengan was enough to suppress the 7-8 Tails of Chakra.

It's literally no different that BoShippuden Sasuke with 3T having the strength to suppress Kn0 levels of Chakra. Minato's was just more badass.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm pretty sure what jutsu you use does still matter, that's why Kurama slapped away SM Naruto's Super Oodama Rasengan but got slammed by his Rasenshuriken.

 

[TFO]

I'm pretty sure what jutsu you use does still matter, that's why Kurama slapped away SM Naruto's Super Oodama Rasengan but got slammed by his Rasenshuriken.

The problem with that specific comparison is that It's based on CC. As we know, Naruto can make regular sized Rasengan stronger than FRS. So the Jutsu doesn't matter really more so then, how much Chakra you're using and your proficiency with it. In Naruto vs Kurama, Naruto wasn't handicapped and nor was Kurama. FRS has more chakra in it than CO Rasengan, which is why he could only use it 3 times before running out of SM (At that Time). If Naruto put 1/3rd of his Senjutsu Chakra into a COR, it wouldn't matter considering, again, the Visages shown are simply representations of Chakra vs Chakra. The "Lethality" of FRS is irrelevant in a Mental Scape because actual physical damage isn't actually being done. Again, Kurama didn't need a TBB in either scenario, his visage in both were representative of the 7-8 Tails worth of Chakra and Full 50% Chakra respectfully.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The problem with that specific comparison is that It's based on CC. As we know, Naruto can make regular sized Rasengan stronger than FRS.

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!? When has he ever done that???

So the Jutsu doesn't matter really more so then, how much Chakra you're using and your proficiency with it. In Naruto vs Kurama, Naruto wasn't handicapped and nor was Kurama. FRS has more chakra in it than CO Rasengan, which is why he could only use it 3 times before running out of SM (At that Time). If Naruto put 1/3rd of his Senjutsu Chakra into a COR, it wouldn't matter considering, again, the Visages shown are simply representations of Chakra vs Chakra.

I don't think you can simply put as much chakra as you want into any jutsu without restrictions.

The "Lethality" of FRS is irrelevant in a Mental Scape because actual physical damage isn't actually being done. Again, Kurama didn't need a TBB in either scenario, his visage in both were representative of the 7-8 Tails worth of Chakra and Full 50% Chakra respectfully.

Pretty sure it is, since after the Bijuudama explodes in the mindscape, Minato's whole body is bruised and bandaged, despite him only getting 2 wounds in the outside world (albeit big ones).

 

[TFO]

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!? When has he ever done that???

He showcased it in the last against Toneri. Several Times in fact. It supports my notion here.

I don't think you can simply put as much chakra as you want into any jutsu without restrictions.

The only restrictions is skill with CC. If it's physical, your durability (I.E., Chidori ripping Sasuke's skin off when he was going to attack Itachi). Aside from that, there really isn't any Restrictions presented or implied in-verse.

Pretty sure it is, since after the Bijuudama explodes in the mindscape, Minato's whole body is bruised and bandaged, despite him only getting 2 wounds in the outside world (albeit big ones).

Spoiler

Tbf, you "may" be right, but so far there is no supporting evidence to go along with this showing. It's the only instance of it in the series, iirc. At the same time it's fair to point out that technically we don't see the outcome of that exchange. I mean... I guess Kurama did affect the outside world on Tenchi Bridge when he and Orochimaru had that stare-down and he roared... It "could" be an example of the mental world affecting the physical, but then I could just say that FRS onlu hurt Kurama due to the Durability Negation aspect, not the "power" behind it persay. FRS still has more chakra in it though than COR, so my point on Chakra still stands.

Edit: Also, see what I mean about the scans and spoiler tags? lol

 

[MinatoSparkle]

He showcased it in the last against Toneri. Several Times in fact. It supports my notion here.

Example?

The only restrictions is skill with CC. If it's physical, your durability (I.E., Chidori ripping Sasuke's skin off when he was going to attack Itachi). Aside from that, there really isn't any Restrictions presented or implied in-verse.

Why do characters spam attacks then instead of just pooling all the chakra from the combined attacks into one super attack?

Tbf, you "may" be right, but so far there is no supporting evidence to go along with this showing. It's the only instance of it in the series, iirc. At the same time it's fair to point out that technically we don't see the outcome of that exchange. I mean... I guess Kurama did affect the outside world on Tenchi Bridge when he and Orochimaru had that stare-down and he roared... It "could" be an example of the mental world affecting the physical, but then I could just say that FRS onlu hurt Kurama due to the Durability Negation aspect, not the "power" behind it persay. FRS still has more chakra in it though than COR, so my point on Chakra still stands.

Well yeah it's the only instance cause mental battles in general are very rare.

RS doesn't ignore truly ignore durability, it just has an unorthodox method of attack. And also you seem to be indirectly agreeing that Kurama using a Bijuudama is a relevant factor.

Edit: Also, see what I mean about the scans and spoiler tags? lol

Fair enough

 

[TFO]

Example?

Toneri blocks the FRS with no damage > Clashes TSB evenly with Naruto's Two Hand Rasengans with No damage > Blocks an Odama Rasengan Barrage with TSB with no Damage > Naruto hits him with a Single Odama Rasengan, breaking the TSB and ripping the cloak off his arms.

Why do characters spam attacks then instead of just pooling all the chakra from the combined attacks into one super attack?

They don't want to be Ichigo

In truth, your question here is kinda in bad faith. It is a creative decision that only Kishimoto can answer. If you mean to use my inability to answer creative decisions for Kishimoto as a debunk of my argument, then your position is automatically flawed as, "the can". They aren't "restricted" from doing so based on in-verse mechanics. Again, the only barriers to ninja doing that are as I stated previously.

Well yeah it's the only instance cause mental battles in general are very rare.

I think it would better to make that assertion when we have more then one implied showing.

RS doesn't ignore truly ignore durability, it just has an unorthodox method of attack. And also you seem to be indirectly agreeing that Kurama using a Bijuudama is a relevant factor.

Last I checked, I thought we file "Cellular Level" attacks as a form of Durability Negation? Also, I still don't agree that it is relevant because it is still just a representation of their chakra. Your initial argument was you believe that it is relevant because Naruto chose to use a stronger jutsu when a weaker one failed to work, but the point still stands that It was still just a battle of chakra and Naruto used more chakra with FRS vs COR.

In truth, after giving it thought, even if i agree to physical damaged being able to happen through the Mental Scale, it's still a separate issue that has no barring in the initial premise. Based on 4 Tails vs Orochimaru and 6 Tails vs Pain, the V2 Cloak is superior to the TBB used by it, so Minato suppressing the the 7-8 Tails of Kurama's Chakra with his attack still makes the TBB being used in the Mental scale useless as the form that was suppressed would scale over it still. if that makes sense.

 

[Amon.vl]

 

[Padaruyos]

Does Base Naruto still scale to 2x Hagoromo Moon Calc (156 ZT)

 

[TFO]

Does Base Naruto still scale to 2x Hagoromo Moon Calc (156 ZT)

I’d say yes because of his feats against Momoshiki and scaling to Sasuke.