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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Shadyboi0 said:
Like in organs not being exploded from force?
Click to expand...
Fiction:
OYY4VcP.gif
 
Can someone tell me how Ada's clairvoyance ability affects her intelligence? She is said to "know everything in the world", but she cannot use the ability to see things that happened before she was born.
 
MadaraZKX said:
Can someone tell me how Ada's clairvoyance ability affects her intelligence? She is said to "know everything in the world", but she cannot use the ability to see things that happened before she was born.
Click to expand...
maybe its just an idiom like she can see what the people can do in real life or past
 
Unless Amado learns that Ada is alive and released, and is able to apply non-intrusive modification against her ability, none but Boruto and Kawaki can fight Ada without causing an NTR scenario.

Looking like Naruto and Sasuke + others vs unreleased Code, and Boruto and Kawaki vs Ada.

MadaraZKX said:
Can someone tell me how Ada's clairvoyance ability affects her intelligence? She is said to "know everything in the world", but she cannot use the ability to see things that happened before she was born.
Click to expand...
She doesn't literally know everything, but she can gather whatever information she wants via. launching her consciousness to view events that happened in the past after she was born, or events currently happening in the present.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
She doesn't literally know everything, but she can gather whatever information she wants via. launching her consciousness to view events that happened in the past after she was born, or events currently happening in the present.
Click to expand...
from what I can tell she constantly views things in the present that part seems to be passive too, the past part is what requires her to launch her consciousness.

That being said, she would probably get nigh-omniscience or something.
 
She seems to be constantly aware of whatever is happening
Even when she was inside her pod she was able to see Isshiki vs Nardo, Sauce and Bolt and also see Isshiki's spirit talk to Code
Pretty interesting that her ability isn't limited to just Earth and she can see other dimensions as well
 
Capture.JPG


^ who green lit this garbage, Sasuke ain't a reliable source of info when even after fighting Kaguya and confronting the duo twice still thinks they are a more powerful threat than Kaguya wild someone clearly hasn't even fully watched these episodes, the power ups you mean the ones she had when still fearing and prepping to fight them, her fearing the 3 of them is only from Shippuden filler don't mix stuff up, WOW thats not a contradiction that just means Naruto is stronger than his Teen self your just presupposing that those are their peaks for your trash rules

Now I'll actually go onto addressing all of the more nuanced arguments from this thread; https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-boruto-discussion-rule-staff-only.116077/

Issue #1, Sasuke's Headcanon​

Sasuke had no basis on it. Sasuke didn't even know who Momoshiki and Kinshiki were when he said that. Sasuke said his statement in a flashback in the Gaiden Manga on Chapter 5 (Episode 24), found the scroll in a flashback in Boruto Chapter 2 (Episode 54), and deciphered the scroll in chapter 5 (Episode 61).

Thats crazy how this doesn't even matter cause after encountering them twice and having fought Kaguya previously literally states his hypothesis on them was correct and how THEY as a PAIR are the threats he was talking about and the ones Kaguya was prepping White Zetsu against for the foe greater than her.

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Boruto/0004-048.png

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Boruto/0005-030.png

^he even figures out Momoshiki's name from the scroll here can't make this up

https://imgur.com/gallery/ANn3LYf < literally just read this to educate yourself

Sasuke didn't know about Momoshiki and Kinshiki when this statement was stated, there were at least 30 episodes worth of distance before Sasuke even met Momo and Kinshiki, so there's no reason to twist it to mean that they scale.

Again doesn't matter cause after figuring out about them still confirmed it as the case after meeting them moot point

Issue #2, Not Supported​

A famous support is that the scroll Sasuke had that allegedly was talking about Momoshiki and Kinshiki wasn't talking about them being stronger.
It explains their goal on earth on the same page I sent, never says a thing about Kaguya.

It was a warning about their invasion and their goal from Kaguya herself and it specifically name drops the pair of them and Sasuke confirms his hypothesis is true after reading it theres literally not a single shred of anything that supports this interpretation

Issue #3, Contradicted​

Naruto got rusty over time wasn't in his prime and still manhandled Momoshiki with his hands only.

Thats literally not even a contradiction lol rusty applies to skill literally look up the definition

and your presupposing his prime is in the war arc to fit your argument crazy Kurama even says its to do with battle senses which again is skill

https://official-complete-1.granpulse.us/manga/Naruto-Gaiden-The-Seventh-Hokage/0006-014.png

,and anyway he can be less skilled than his prime but still have more raw strength and speed than his war arc counterpart theres nothing even saying the war arc is his prime so again no contradiction here


Naruto with far more abilities and with help couldn't put down Kaguya w/out a seal. That says enough.

How does this literally say anything what far more abilities TSO? something he didn't even attempt to use on Kaguya directly and is useless against her regardless via being a Six Paths Character? All the explanation that is need is simple Adult Naruto = Momoshiki > Kaguya > Teen Naruto, Teen Naruto may need the seal and help to fight and beat Kaguya but that says nothing about his adult incarnation, again 99% of this argument is just presupposing that Naruto either stagnated or got weaker than his prime and then just saying the War Arc is his prime for no reason when you can just as easily say Naruto beating Fused Momoshiki after all of those statements makes him stronger which literally offers zero contradictions

Issue #4, Kaguya Fearing Them​

Being scared of somebody who isn't an AP based fighter isn't AP

Shes literally 50% scared of Kinshiki who only has raw power feats and Momoshiki literally the stronger of the two, even if you ignored all of this it literally confirms she was prepping the army for a stronger foe (the pair) and Fused Momoshiki is stronger than the both of them so the scaling doesnt change anyway

,and these statements aren't even from Kaguya.

No they're just from one of the most knowledgeable characters on the subject matter whos been investigating this for the better part of 15 years and is extremely intelligent to boot, not to mention having prior experience against Kaguya as well

These are headcanon statements from others who don't hold any weight to Kaguya's thoughts via our statements page.

Imagine saying the story itself is headcanon lol this page doesn't even help your argument cause Momoshiki's statements fall into Option 2 or 4 and they fit all of these bills
  • if the source of the statement is reliable? Sasuke is reliable as I have literally went about prove throughout this post
  • If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character? Its literally the entire set up of the arc nothing conflicts with it and the feats dont contradict either as this takes place after a timeskip so baselessly scaling them to iterations of themselves 15 years ago is an unfounded argument with literally zero basis
  • If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings, The statement is only in regards to inverse scaling anyway
The entire context of Sasuke statements dont even allow for this argument hes being hyper literal after researching a topic and he nor anything in the narrative suggests he was wrong in fact it actively portrays him as correct

Would have put this argument in the thread but it was staff only in summary cringe thread
 
Are people still debating this Kaguya vs Momoshiki stuff to this day!?

Anyway, Boruto manga has moved on past these 2 characters or at least Kaguya ages ago. And either way Isshiki was stronger than both but despite that, he still got taken out by a pre-fruit pre-Juubi Kaguya. Of course ur was a sneak attack, supposedly but she was still strong enough to damage Isshiki massively.

The gaps between these characters isn't as wide as people think.

Before people thought that Kaguya > Momoshiki cause she fused with the Juubi which is indeed true for her Chakra capacity but then in Boruto we know that other Otsutsuki like Momoshiki and Isshiki also have access to their own Juubi's which they can siphon Chakra for an extra boost.

If these Juubis are like batterys, Kaguya simply has the battery in her body 24/7 while someone like Isshiki keeps the battery elsewhere and refills regularly.

Boruto especially erased the huge gap that existed between Jounin, Kage tier and God tier during war arc. Now there isn't some insurmountable gap between these tiers as back during Naruto, let alone between 2 God tiers.
 
NotCensored said:
Capture.JPG


^ who green lit this garbage, Sasuke ain't a reliable source of info when even after fighting Kaguya and confronting the duo twice still thinks they are a more powerful threat than Kaguya wild someone clearly hasn't even fully watched these episodes, the power ups you mean the ones she had when still fearing and prepping to fight them, her fearing the 3 of them is only from Shippuden filler don't mix stuff up, WOW thats not a contradiction that just means Naruto is stronger than his Teen self your just presupposing that those are their peaks for your trash rules

Now I'll actually go onto addressing all of the more nuanced arguments from this thread; https://vsbattles.com/threads/naruto-boruto-discussion-rule-staff-only.116077/

Issue #1, Sasuke's Headcanon​

Sasuke had no basis on it. Sasuke didn't even know who Momoshiki and Kinshiki were when he said that. Sasuke said his statement in a flashback in the Gaiden Manga on Chapter 5 (Episode 24), found the scroll in a flashback in Boruto Chapter 2 (Episode 54), and deciphered the scroll in chapter 5 (Episode 61).

Thats crazy how this doesn't even matter cause after encountering them twice and having fought Kaguya previously literally states his hypothesis on them was correct and how THEY as a PAIR are the threats he was talking about and the ones Kaguya was prepping White Zetsu against for the foe greater than her.

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Boruto/0004-048.png

https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/Boruto/0005-030.png

^he even figures out Momoshiki's name from the scroll here can't make this up

https://imgur.com/gallery/ANn3LYf < literally just read this to educate yourself

Sasuke didn't know about Momoshiki and Kinshiki when this statement was stated, there were at least 30 episodes worth of distance before Sasuke even met Momo and Kinshiki, so there's no reason to twist it to mean that they scale.

Again doesn't matter cause after figuring out about them still confirmed it as the case after meeting them moot point

Issue #2, Not Supported​

A famous support is that the scroll Sasuke had that allegedly was talking about Momoshiki and Kinshiki wasn't talking about them being stronger.
It explains their goal on earth on the same page I sent, never says a thing about Kaguya.

It was a warning about their invasion and their goal from Kaguya herself and it specifically name drops the pair of them and Sasuke confirms his hypothesis is true after reading it theres literally not a single shred of anything that supports this interpretation

Issue #3, Contradicted​

Naruto got rusty over time wasn't in his prime and still manhandled Momoshiki with his hands only.

Thats literally not even a contradiction lol rusty applies to skill literally look up the definition

and your presupposing his prime is in the war arc to fit your argument crazy Kurama even says its to do with battle senses which again is skill

https://official-complete-1.granpulse.us/manga/Naruto-Gaiden-The-Seventh-Hokage/0006-014.png

,and anyway he can be less skilled than his prime but still have more raw strength and speed than his war arc counterpart theres nothing even saying the war arc is his prime so again no contradiction here


Naruto with far more abilities and with help couldn't put down Kaguya w/out a seal. That says enough.

How does this literally say anything what far more abilities TSO? something he didn't even attempt to use on Kaguya directly and is useless against her regardless via being a Six Paths Character? All the explanation that is need is simple Adult Naruto = Momoshiki > Kaguya > Teen Naruto, Teen Naruto may need the seal and help to fight and beat Kaguya but that says nothing about his adult incarnation, again 99% of this argument is just presupposing that Naruto either stagnated or got weaker than his prime and then just saying the War Arc is his prime for no reason when you can just as easily say Naruto beating Fused Momoshiki after all of those statements makes him stronger which literally offers zero contradictions

Issue #4, Kaguya Fearing Them​

Being scared of somebody who isn't an AP based fighter isn't AP

Shes literally 50% scared of Kinshiki who only has raw power feats and Momoshiki literally the stronger of the two, even if you ignored all of this it literally confirms she was prepping the army for a stronger foe (the pair) and Fused Momoshiki is stronger than the both of them so the scaling doesnt change anyway

,and these statements aren't even from Kaguya.

No they're just from one of the most knowledgeable characters on the subject matter whos been investigating this for the better part of 15 years and is extremely intelligent to boot, not to mention having prior experience against Kaguya as well

These are headcanon statements from others who don't hold any weight to Kaguya's thoughts via our statements page.

Imagine saying the story itself is headcanon lol this page doesn't even help your argument cause Momoshiki's statements fall into Option 2 or 4 and they fit all of these bills
  • if the source of the statement is reliable? Sasuke is reliable as I have literally went about prove throughout this post
  • If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character? Its literally the entire set up of the arc nothing conflicts with it and the feats dont contradict either as this takes place after a timeskip so baselessly scaling them to iterations of themselves 15 years ago is an unfounded argument with literally zero basis
  • If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings, The statement is only in regards to inverse scaling anyway
The entire context of Sasuke statements dont even allow for this argument hes being hyper literal after researching a topic and he nor anything in the narrative suggests he was wrong in fact it actively portrays him as correct

Would have put this argument in the thread but it was staff only in summary cringe thread
Click to expand...
You should just put this in the staff discussion. Non staff people argue or talk in staff threads all the time.
 
Gitagon said:
Are people still debating this Kaguya vs Momoshiki stuff to this day!?
Click to expand...
Yes unfortunately.
Gitagon said:
And either way Isshiki was stronger than both but despite that, he still got taken out by a pre-fruit pre-Juubi Kaguya.
Click to expand...
The Juubi has been clarified by Amado to be a seed that would be planeted to get a fruit. So the filler "Pre fruit Kaguya" should be treated as what it is. Non canon filler content.
 
NotCensored said:
Imagine saying the story itself is headcanon lol this page doesn't even help your argument cause Momoshiki's statements fall into Option 2 or 4 and they fit all of these bills
  • if the source of the statement is reliable? Sasuke is reliable as I have literally went about prove throughout this post
  • If the statement conflicts with the story or feats of the character? Its literally the entire set up of the arc nothing conflicts with it and the feats dont contradict either as this takes place after a timeskip so baselessly scaling them to iterations of themselves 15 years ago is an unfounded argument with literally zero basis
  • If the statement is only valid in the context of its setting, or if it holds up in comparison with other settings, The statement is only in regards to inverse scaling anyway
The entire context of Sasuke statements dont even allow for this argument hes being hyper literal after researching a topic and he nor anything in the narrative suggests he was wrong in fact it actively portrays him as correct

Would have put this argument in the thread but it was staff only in summary cringe thread
Click to expand...
He is reliable in that Kaguya pre-Ten Tails, and possibly pre-fruit, was expecting certain Ōtsutsuki to visit Earth and/or hunt her down hundreds or thousands of years down the line. He didn't make reliable statements about their strength, nor would Kaguya know about their strength or hax in the future.

Naruto was being rusty is both to skill and power. He got pierced by Shin Uchiha's throwing a sword at him, when he previously could tank a Chidori. Naruto acknowledges that both him and Sasuke were embarrassingly beat up by Shin Uchiha; Naruto is compared to a Sasuke who is so Chakra-deprived that he is incapable of even activating his Mangekyō Sharingan. He obviously needs some time to get back in shape.
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
Naruto acknowledges that both him and Sasuke were embarrassingly beat up by Shin Uchiha
Click to expand...
Isn't this somewhat of an exaggeration?

In the beginning of their fight Sasuke easily deflects all of Shin's projectiles and would have burned him were it not for Shin using his clone as a shield.

Shin only managed to hit Sasuke with his blades because Sasuke was distracted, weaponless, and protected Sarada because she was Shin's target.

And for Naruto's case one could argue that was PIS because later on in the story Naruto was able to easily grab a swung blade while not in BM or SPSM.

Or one could argue that Shin just has powerful TK with his MS because he was also able to restrain Sasuke when he got stabbed by his blades.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't substitution jutsu basically limited teleportation?
  • "Exchange: Character can swap places with another object (usually such teleportation is limited by the fact that the second object is needed to move in space)."
That's literally what this jutsu does
 
MadaraZKX said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't substitution jutsu basically limited teleportation?
  • "Exchange: Character can swap places with another object (usually such teleportation is limited by the fact that the second object is needed to move in space)."
That's literally what this jutsu does
Click to expand...
all Naruto Characters know the substitution jutsu right?
 
Some of the justsu in part 1 were before the elemental Chakra system so there were still some mystical aspects to ninjutsu.
 
MadaraZKX said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't substitution jutsu basically limited teleportation?
  • "Exchange: Character can swap places with another object (usually such teleportation is limited by the fact that the second object is needed to move in space)."
That's literally what this jutsu does
Click to expand...
The official explanation is that it is just sleight of hand + speed, and not actual teleportation.
0006-005.png


But feat-wise, it acts like teleportation, or a budget Amenotejikara, since it is usable against comparable/faster characters, and can be used mid-air or while restrained.
0054-005.png
0054-006.png
0054-007.png
0054-008.png

0374-014.png


This is made more complicated by statements about Space-Time Ninjutsu being rare.
So yeah, thing doesn't make sense. The obstacles against it being considered teleportation is:
  1. It has an official explanation which states that it is not actual teleportation but pure speed, and it is implied to be a show-off technique when you are much faster than your opponent
  2. Space-Time Ninjutsu is supposed to be rare, which would contradict with how every academy student is expected to learn the Jutsu if the technique is teleportation
  3. If it was teleportation, it would imply that Sasuke's Rinnengan ability isn't special as everyone can do a slightly inferior version of it
 
ShadowWhoWalks said:
If it was teleportation, it would imply that Sasuke's Rinnengan ability isn't special as everyone can do a slightly inferior version of it
Click to expand...
Let's not kid ourselves, Amenotejikara is just a glorified Substitution Jutsu, and is the least impressive "special ability" associated with a Rinnegan/Mangekyo Sharingan, except maybe Shin's.

But yeah.........
Unfortunately we can't treat the Substitution Jutsu as teleportation due to the official explanation and lore going against it, even though the actual feats imply otherwise.
 
There's a reason why Kishimoto phased it out of the manga. He probably realized that it couldn't be taken seriously, or that if it was to be taken seriously then it would be too broken.
 
Some instanced people used substiution when they were damn near pinned down (deidara using it on naruto)

Tmw naruto tells kurama he better not be rusty vs momoshiki
 
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