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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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Provide scans of the actual statement. And again, Kisame varies. Scaling people to him is a big no-no. And you again overlook Haku’s actual feats on Part I Kakashi’s level.
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That statement is not just for Kakashi, that’s just in general. Should Asuma and Kurenai now scale to Kisame (who again, varies, you can’t scale people to him) because they were fighting him?
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Also, Itachi at this point of time is EXTREMELY unreliable as a source of information. Again I'll go back to the Jiraiya statement and say that he was clearly making up excuses to avoid conflict with Konoha and his allies.
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He has much better feats in part 2.
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Those are also good points. It’s only logical for a Konoha spy to oversell the abilities of a fellow Konoha-nin to prevent a conflict. Which we already saw with Itachi saying he’d stalemate Jiraiya, even though Jiraiya is roughly on par with Orochimaru and Oro blatantly said that Itachi is stronger than him.
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Haku isn't Kakashi's level, that's my thought. But I just reread the scaling chain above, it is Haku possibly scales to Kakashi, sorry I didn't read properly. Orochimaru doesn't have knowledge of Totsuka Blade and Susanoo at the moment iirc. So he refers to Itachi's sharingan is too much for him, which is hax, not AP.
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You can think that if you want, the actual series says otherwise. But yes, Haku would only be getting a ‘possibly 7-C’ since his portrayal is somewhat inconsistent. And no, Orochimaru said Itachi was stronger than him. Not hax related, AP related.
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Itachi in his prime scales to KCM1 and B. Sick Itachi scales above Orochimaru.
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Just to note Itachi doesn't have any feats of being able to harm KCM Naruto and Killer B outside of hypothetically Amaterasu which Naruto was concerned about.
He exchanged hands with KCM Naruto for like a couple seconds, and there's no reason to think Naruto was going all-out against him.
He exchanged hands with KCM Naruto for like a couple seconds, and there's no reason to think Naruto was going all-out against him.
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I just reread the chapter again, and I see that Itachi was "casually" fighting KCM Naruto and B. He exchanged blows with Naruto while casually evading B from behind.
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Uhh Tsukuyomi and Susano'o as well maybe? His Susano'o was able to harm Nagato, who was manhandling Naruto and Bee, twice.
Also, he scales to Kabuto and Sasuke, the latter of which directly scales to a slightly more powerful version of KCM Naruto with and without his Susano'o.
Couple all of this with his brief encounter against Naruto and Bee and you have what I feel is a compelling argument for Itachi if I'm being honest.
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If we always take "stronger" is regarding AP, then Itachi should physically stronger than Kisame as he says Itachi is stronger and he has no knowledge of Susanoo. So He refers to experience, skills. I still think that we shouldn't take "stronger than someone" is always regarding AP. Momoshiki isn't as strong as Kaguya for example.
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> Uhh Tsukuyomi and Susano'o as well maybe? His Susano'o was able to harm Nagato, who was manhandling Naruto and Bee, twice.
Tsukuyomi isn't an AP ability.
Tsukuyomi isn't an AP ability.
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Oh my bad, I thought you were speaking in general.
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We literally accept both of those things lmao. Itachi’s profile blatantly says in his AP justification that he’s above Kisame and we accept Momoshiki as stronger than Kaguya. “Stronger” does not mean experience and skills. It means physical strength/AP.
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Oh my good, Momoshiki isn't stronger than Kaguya, he was defeated by Boruto. Itachi isn't stronger than Kisame physically, Kisame profile says he is physically one of the strongest characters in the series. Itachi has no reason to reveal to Kisame regarding Susanoo, Totsuka Blade either. So he clearly refers to Itachi's skill, experience, sharingan or similar thing, not physically stronger than him.
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Ignoring context, are we? The Rasengan that Boruto used to kill Momoshiki was explicitly powered by Naruto. Don’t try to lie just to downplay. And no, you’re making a massive leap in logic regarding Kisame’s statement and ignoring how Itachi’s profile literally says in his AP; “Kisame considers Itachi the stronger between them.” You are, once again, trying to take your headcanon over what the series blatantly shows and says. The term “stronger” is not used to say someone is more experienced, skilled, or more haxed, and it’s frankly illogical to assume that it means either of those things over physical strength on the basis of “cause this is what I want to believe.”
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IIRC Itachi casually blocked a casual sword swing from Kisame with a Kunai
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Just keep claiming stuff like Kisame refers to Itachi being physically stronger than him given the fact that he didn't have knowledge of Susanoo, etc.. I told you and I tried to explain to you that "being stated stronger than someone doesn't always mean AP>them). So I guess I can't help you understand this.
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Your explanation comes from literally nothing but “I think it’s like this, so it is.” You provided literally no evidence to say that Itachi is physically weaker than Kisame, you just claimed that he is and treated it as fact despite the series saying otherwise. You are straight up taking headcanon over what the series actually says.
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Momoshiki isn't stronger than Kaguya either. I don't see what he has shown implying he is stronger than Kaguya rather than a vague statement. Naruto was weaker due to him losing a considerable amount of chakra before the battle and if we assume Boruto's power on his own is nothing, then Naruto's power is the majority of that giant rasengan and what? It was strong enough to completely erase Momoshiki from existence with a little help with Boruto's power.
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Yes, Naruto was weaker. And? You say that as if it’s an anti-feat, and it isn’t. Sasuke stated that Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Why exactly would she fear them if she was stronger than them?
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To be fair Sasuke was going off information he found in a scroll that has very little context to it. Kaguya might have just feared the consequences of them coming after her and wrecking her planet. There's nothing saying specifically that she feared their raw power and strength.
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here he was control by kabuto no?
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Very true, but until Boruto gives us a more concrete image of what the situation with Kaguya was (preferably more context on her conflict with Isshiki as well because I think that's arguably more important. We need to know exactly how that went down.) I think the safest assumption is to take the statement at face value and say that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were simply stronger than Kaguya. I'm not necessarily fond of them being a lot stronger than her, but it also doesn't make much sense for her to be scared of them if she was stronger. The whole Kaguya situation desperately needs more context, but unfortunately I highly doubt we're going to get any given Boruto's track record.
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Yes, he was being controlled by Kabuto.
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So there's no excuse for Edo/Prime Itachi not scaling to KCM Naruto?
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I personally think there's not enough evidence to assume otherwise, but what do I know? I'm just the resident Itachi wanker.
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That’s fair, but on the other hand, if Kaguya was stronger than them and they came to Earth... couldn’t she just kill them to prevent them from messing with her planet?
On top of that, wasn’t it stated that Kaguya was trying to create a White Zetsu army in case Momoshiki and Kinshiki came to Earth? If she was stronger than them, she wouldn’t have needed that. Granted, the army wouldn’t help her that much in the scenario that they did show up, but Kaguya isn’t exactly the brightest individual so maybe she thought they would.
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Although I do agree with @UchihaSlayer96 in saying that Momoshiki and Kinshiki aren’t leaps and bounds ahead of Kaguya, but they’re still superior. Like, if Kaguya was a 5, Kinshiki would be a 6 and Momoshiki would be a 7.
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>There's nothing saying specifically that she feared their raw power and strength.
Agreed. Naruto was weakened and he still had enough strength to give Boruto, enough power to beat a recover Momoshiki. Vague statement > feat or what has been shown?
Regarding Kisame, Itachi. Stop that headcanon Itachi > Kisame physically already, it's crazy and stubborn. Kisame blatantly survived a Lariat V2 from Bee. For example, Itachi stronger than Kisame while Kisame has no knowledge of Susanoo, it's a given that he refers to Itachi otherwise but not physically stronger than him. So Itachi beat Kisame via genjutsu is equivalent to physically stronger than him? Cuz if you beat someone through uncertain manners, it still counts as stronger than someone. That's why I specially said "Being stated to be stronger than someone doesn't necessarily your AP > them", especially in Naruto there are several instances that you can beat opponents using tactic, skills, etc.
Agreed. Naruto was weakened and he still had enough strength to give Boruto, enough power to beat a recover Momoshiki. Vague statement > feat or what has been shown?
Regarding Kisame, Itachi. Stop that headcanon Itachi > Kisame physically already, it's crazy and stubborn. Kisame blatantly survived a Lariat V2 from Bee. For example, Itachi stronger than Kisame while Kisame has no knowledge of Susanoo, it's a given that he refers to Itachi otherwise but not physically stronger than him. So Itachi beat Kisame via genjutsu is equivalent to physically stronger than him? Cuz if you beat someone through uncertain manners, it still counts as stronger than someone. That's why I specially said "Being stated to be stronger than someone doesn't necessarily your AP > them", especially in Naruto there are several instances that you can beat opponents using tactic, skills, etc.
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Naruto being stronger than Momoshiki is literally not an anti-feat, what?
Also it’s hilarious that you call Itachi > Kisame headcanon when it’s blatantly said in the series. You saying Kisame > Itachi is the only headcanon here. Beating someone =/= being stronger than them. Are War Arc Team 7 stronger than Kaguya for defeating her? And for the last time, the term “stronger,” does not mean more skilled or more experienced. If Kisame meant more experienced, he would’ve said more experienced. If Kisame meant more skilled, he would’ve said more skilled. Hell, we even have proof from the series that strength (aka, what you would be referring to when you say stronger) and skills are considered two different things, as Hidan specifically said that his attacks were the least skilled of the Akatsuki. Not that he was the weakest of the Akatsuki. Your equating of strength with skills/experience is nonsense that comes from literally nowhere.
Stop trying to deny what the series says to support your own headcanon, please.
Also it’s hilarious that you call Itachi > Kisame headcanon when it’s blatantly said in the series. You saying Kisame > Itachi is the only headcanon here. Beating someone =/= being stronger than them. Are War Arc Team 7 stronger than Kaguya for defeating her? And for the last time, the term “stronger,” does not mean more skilled or more experienced. If Kisame meant more experienced, he would’ve said more experienced. If Kisame meant more skilled, he would’ve said more skilled. Hell, we even have proof from the series that strength (aka, what you would be referring to when you say stronger) and skills are considered two different things, as Hidan specifically said that his attacks were the least skilled of the Akatsuki. Not that he was the weakest of the Akatsuki. Your equating of strength with skills/experience is nonsense that comes from literally nowhere.
Stop trying to deny what the series says to support your own headcanon, please.
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New Era Naruto or Sasuke? what? Can solo Kaguya 1vs1 and wins? There's a reason why she was sealed, it was because she couldn't be killed. Momoshiki, on the other hand, was defeated and killed by a weakened Naruto + Boruto?
>Stop trying to deny what the series says to support your own headcanon, please.
Sure, I'll stop, just continue with your bad argument anyways, I tried to explain to you with my best and it seems it didn't work, so I don't think I have enough confidence to try it again.
>Stop trying to deny what the series says to support your own headcanon, please.
Sure, I'll stop, just continue with your bad argument anyways, I tried to explain to you with my best and it seems it didn't work, so I don't think I have enough confidence to try it again.
