• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Arc doesn’t care (and likely doesn’t even think bleach is tier 1 cuz you’d need to heavily misinterpret the muken sjit and how higher dimensions work just to reach there)
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Arc doesn’t care (and likely doesn’t even think bleach is tier 1 cuz you’d need to heavily misinterpret the muken sjit and how higher dimensions work just to reach there)
Click to expand...
The Blaach thread were trying to convince this poor guy Bleach is 7D and some offshoot Bleach game has outerversal scaling…
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
Arc doesn’t care (and likely doesn’t even think bleach is tier 1 cuz you’d need to heavily misinterpret the muken sjit and how higher dimensions work just to reach there)
Click to expand...
Hasty12345 said:
The Blaach thread were trying to convince this poor guy Bleach is 7D and some offshoot Bleach game has outerversal scaling…
Click to expand...
damn, bleach fans are really wanking the shit out of their verse. I thought that was our job
 
Wait… if a character can exist outside of Reality, does that give them resistance to Existence Erasure?

Because how can you erase someone from existence… that can exist outside of existence? 🤔
 
Kayzz said:
Okay, let's put every bit into perspective from Boruto's new info:





From description by Black Zetsu, Kaguya became the God tree herself. This is not the way Otsutsuki evolve, so I think Kaguya did more than just consume the chakra fruit. After all she likely has been consuming chakra fruit for eons with Isshiki and didn't evolve becoming the god tree. So I suspect she must have been the first to seal Ten-Tails into her body, not Hagoromo. The Ten Tails sharing body and consciousness must have altered the direction of her evolution.

Some of Kaguya's abilities seem to deviate from the ones we see with the Otsutsuki. Most notably the one she can directly turn into the ten tails. And if we consider TSO to be six paths senjutsu, which is knowledge and skill of manipulating six paths chakra to create sage techniques, then it's not something Otsutsuki use naturally. Amado clearly seperated sage techniques from shinjutsu.
The Otsutsuki still have six paths chakra though from consuming chakra fruits, but they utilise it for their base abilities and shinjutsu.

Now there's still a possibility that the god tree and Otsutsuki god is the same being, just functioning differently. Two sides of the same coin. So I don't know. Till we get Shibai stuff.
Click to expand...
You ignored my Toneri points.
Hagoromo and Hamura already knew about the god-tree before they ever fought the Ten Tails. That alone tells you Kaguya hadn’t merged with the god-tree at the time she gave birth to them because we know once the Ten-Tails is planted it becomes a god tree and the only reason it reverted to the Ten Tails again was because kaguya merged with the god-tree.
Kaguya was not a a ten-tails host in the conventional sense that we know it Kaguya was the Ten Tails itself Kaguya + god-tree = A new Tentails. So how did Hamura and Hagoromo get TSO? If she hadn't merged with the god-tree yet?
Side Note- Based on what we know about how a god-tree comes to be a Ten Tails is planted into the ground as a seed and only after consuming a living Otsutsuki does it become a god-tree Based on that we can deduce this: Kaguya must have used Karma on someone, sacrificed herself to the Ten Tails, and revived through Karma. Then she ate the chakra fruit that the god-tree produced. That lines up with the established Otsutsuki cycle.

Now to clarify a few things:

1. Otsutsuki don’t just “evolve” by taking chakra from the Ten Tails. The chakra fruit they consume contains the energy and genetic data of the sacrificed Otsutsuki plus every person who’s ever lived or died on that planet. It’s not just raw power, it’s accumulated existence.

2. When the Ten Tails consumes an Otsutsuki, it becomes the god-tree nothing more. The reason Ten-Tails in Boruto is evolving differently is most likely because of Karma like Boruto mentioned. Code altered their genetics with Karma, which is why they’re sentient.

As for Senjutsu : it refers to Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu that use nature energy. Shinjutsu, which surpasses all conventional Ninjutsu, also surpasses Senjutsu by extension.

But more importantly, according to the databook, TSOs are not classified as Senjutsu. They’re mainly Ninjutsu. Even Kaguya’s ETSO is specifically Kekkei Mōra Ninjutsu, not Senjutsu. That distinction matters.
 
Last edited:
MinatoSparkle said:
Make them not even be a concept that can be thought of
Click to expand...
But that’s Existence Erasure still, albeit high level.

Edit: I guess that would mean yes? To some extent at least, the ability to exist outside of existence gets some degree of resistance to EE?
 
Last edited:
The reason I ask is because when Kaguya goes into the Yomotsu Portal and it closes behind her, she’s existing outside of Reality atp.

Also… doesn’t that also provisionally make her 5D if i’m thinking about it correctly? 🤔
  1. Can exist outside of the 4D’s her victims experience.
  2. Can affect those dimensions w/o existing within it.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
The reason I ask is because when Kaguya goes into the Yomotsu Portal and it closes behind her, she’s existing outside of Reality atp.
Click to expand...
She's not existing outside of reality itself but a part of it. In a way it's not that much different from just you not being a certain room or building but with a larger range.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Also… doesn’t that also provisionally make her 5D if i’m thinking about it correctly? 🤔
Click to expand...
No.
NeoKingOfLight said:
  1. Can exist outside of the 4D’s her victims experience.
Click to expand...
That doesn't really have anything to do with being 4 or 5 dimensional on its own. And her victims only really have 3D experience, with humans actually only really seeing in 2 dimensions unless they have xray vision.
NeoKingOfLight said:
  1. Can affect those dimensions w/o existing within it.
Click to expand...
That also has nothing to really do with being higher dimensional. I can affect a room without being inside of it. Hell I can set up things that will affect it in the future without actually being there myself. That doesn't make me 4 or 5 dimensional .
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
The reason I ask is because when Kaguya goes into the Yomotsu Portal and it closes behind her, she’s existing outside of Reality atp.

Also… doesn’t that also provisionally make her 5D if i’m thinking about it correctly? 🤔
  1. Can exist outside of the 4D’s her victims experience.
  2. Can affect those dimensions w/o existing within it.
Click to expand...
those tiktok gokutards rubbing off on you man
 
DavidTPPM said:
She's not existing outside of reality itself but a part of it. In a way it's not that much different from just you not being a certain room or building but with a larger range.
Click to expand...
But that’s not necessarily the case tho, right? Because Yomotsu Portals are doors into and outside of the Dimension (The Orb as was brought up in a previous discussion about the size of them). So she is effectively existing outside of that 4D space.

And they aren’t comparable to rooms inside of the same house. Despite the fact her Dimensions are connected to her Core Dimension, they are all still separate Time-Spaces, so it would be contradictory for her to simultaneously exist and not exist in the same Time-Space when the technique she used doesn’t do that.
DavidTPPM said:
That doesn't really have anything to do with being 4 or 5 dimensional on its own. And her victims only really have 3D experience, with humans actually only really seeing in 2 dimensions unless they have xray vision.
Click to expand...
Well… I say 4D because Humans experience 3D of Space and One Dimension of Time.
DavidTPPM said:
That also has nothing to really do with being higher dimensional. I can affect a room without being inside of it.
Click to expand...
Except your analogy is wrong as it’s not comparable to simply being a room.
DavidTPPM said:
Hell I can set up things that will affect it in the future without actually being there myself.
Click to expand...
Read Above.
DavidTPPM said:
That doesn't make me 4 or 5 dimensional .
Click to expand...
Read Above.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
But that’s not necessarily the case tho, right? Because Yomotsu Portals are doors into and outside of the Dimension (The Orb as was brought up in a previous discussion about the size of them). So she is effectively existing outside of that 4D space.
Click to expand...
She's outside of that specific 4D spacetime but not outside of existence itself.

And she doesn't effectively exist outside of a 4D space, she effectively exists outside of that specific 3D space.

If she effectively didn't exist in the entire 4D spacetime she would have to alter the history and future of the dimension every time she enters or leaves. Otherwise her preset and/or future selves would still exist in that spacetime.
NeoKingOfLight said:
And they aren’t comparable to rooms inside of the same house. Despite the fact her Dimensions are connected to her Core Dimension, they are all still separate Time-Spaces,
Click to expand...
And all the rooms are in a way separate spaces.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Well… I say 4D because Humans experience 3D of Space and One Dimension of Time.
Click to expand...
Well that's a bit different. We don't actually have a sensory organ for time like we do with other senses that experience space and it's properties.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Except your analogy is wrong as it’s not comparable to simply being a room.
Click to expand...
It's not 100% identical but it's similar enough to be used for a visualization. Point is that just because you aren't in 1 place doesn't mean you suddenly don't exist.

Same way you don't stop existing just because you go from 1 room to another, Kaguya won't stop existing just because she went from one dimension to another.
 
1. Kaguya
2. Peak Sasuke (Bijuu enhanced Susano'o)
3. Peak Naruto
4. DMS Kakashi
5. Peak Jubidaara
6. 8 Gates Guy
7. Peak Juubito
8. Peak Minato
9. Rinne Rebirth Madara
10. Tobirama
 
Hello, I'm back. With my strange questions, I'm a naturally curious person, so I discussed with someone a topic related to Naruto's Sun mark ability. This person said that Naruto could only recreate eyes or restore a person's life force. I thought he could heal or recreate a body if it still existed or contained cells (or at least theoretically).

The argument I was making revolved around the character "Guy." I told him that he didn't just restore Guy's life force, but that he had recreated/restored Guy's entire body. For example, when Guy used the Eight Gates, his body was like an oven, to the point that his blood vaporized, and I believe his organs were also burned or nearly cooked. At the end of the battle, after Night Guy's attack, his body was close to disintegrating, and even a light blow could have caused it to disintegrate. The scene showed his leg being scattered and transferred to his entire body, had Naruto not intervened in the nick of time to stop the process and heal it.

Therefore, in the end, Naruto not only restored Guy's life force, but also restored and healed (and created blood) Guy's body, which had been burned and cooked from the inside out (his skin had completely changed color), was devoid of blood, and was also on the verge of disintegration. Naruto also restored Guy's leg, which had also been disintegrated. In the end, the leg reappeared, but Guy was unable to walk for some reason. Most importantly, however, his vaporized leg was restored.

Note: My English isn't very good, so I apologize for any mistakes or unclear details.
 
DavidTPPM said:
She's outside of that specific 4D spacetime but not outside of existence itself.

And she doesn't effectively exist outside of a 4D space, she effectively exists outside of that specific 3D space.

If she effectively didn't exist in the entire 4D spacetime she would have to alter the history and future of the dimension every time she enters or leaves. Otherwise her preset and/or future selves would still exist in that spacetime.

And all the rooms are in a way separate spaces.

Well that's a bit different. We don't actually have a sensory organ for time like we do with other senses that experience space and it's properties.

It's not 100% identical but it's similar enough to be used for a visualization. Point is that just because you aren't in 1 place doesn't mean you suddenly don't exist.

Same way you don't stop existing just because you go from 1 room to another, Kaguya won't stop existing just because she went from one dimension to another.
Click to expand...
Let us have this, David!!
naruto_rage_face_by_helion98_d3bxeax-fullview.jpg


Nah, I get it. It was a good try though. 🤷‍♂️
 
So, in order for Jigen’s rods to be small enough to pierce the body without causing pain, they’d have to be sub-1 micrometer “At Least”?
 
Samlex1234 said:
You ignored my Toneri points.
Click to expand...
Apologies for the long read below.

Didn't ignore your Toneri points. Toneri is a descendant of Kaguya and that six paths chakra inherent in his bloodline as a descendant can be awakened if certain conditions are fulfilled. The awakening of TSO is not really different from Madara awakening rinnegan simply because they are descendants who fulfilled the respective conditions.
Samlex1234 said:
Hagoromo and Hamura already knew about the god-tree before they ever fought the Ten Tails. That alone tells you Kaguya hadn’t merged with the god-tree at the time she gave birth to them because we know once the Ten-Tails is planted it becomes a god tree and the only reason it reverted to the Ten Tails again was because kaguya merged with the god-tree.
Kaguya was not a a ten-tails host in the conventional sense that we know it Kaguya was the Ten Tails itself Kaguya + god-tree = A new Tentails. So how did Hamura and Hagoromo get TSO? If she hadn't merged with the god-tree yet?
Side Note- Based on what we know about how a god-tree comes to be a Ten Tails is planted into the ground as a seed and only after consuming a living Otsutsuki does it become a god-tree Based on that we can deduce this: Kaguya must have used Karma on someone, sacrificed herself to the Ten Tails, and revived through Karma. Then she ate the chakra fruit that the god-tree produced. That lines up with the established Otsutsuki cycle.
Click to expand...
There's a quality that the Tailed Beasts, and God tree by extension possess - Fission. Being split into multiple bodies is normal for the Shinju.
Juubito split the Ten Tails into a fission in order to create the God Tree while another fissiion was still inside his body. Kaguya could likewise have performed the same skill. Having the Ten Tails within her while simultaneously have planted the god tree.
Also, Jura and the rest of the Shinju exists as multiple bodies with Jura being direct core incarnate of God Tree, known as Ten Tails.

Hagoromo and Hamura got TSO by awakening Rikudo Senjutsu because they already possessed six paths chakra (God Tree chakra) from birth. This is the clear wording by Black Zetsu

"It wasn't the Divine Tree's incarnation that was trying to reclaim its chakra... but mother's will attempting to take back the chakra that had been dispersed... into her two children"

It won't make sense if this chakra was Otsutsuki chakra. Why would Otsutsuki chakra be dispersed at birth? I can understand if it's karma that directly transfers Otsutsuki chakra and data to a host. But birth means Hagoromo and Hamura are their own Otsutsuki with their own Otsutsuki chakra, so why would Kaguya who was in control of the Shinju and Ten Tails want to lay claim to that? It is most likely the chakra from the chakra fruit she ate.

As for Kaguya merging with the God Tree before Hags and Hams birth, well, there's no way to prove that. Though to me she had already done that because even before Hagoromo's birth she was said to have ran mad with power and became malevolent. That is more typical when becoming Ten Tails Jinchuriki rather than consuming chakra fruit, at least for Otsutsuki.
However, I know by the time of the fight between her children and Ten Tails, she most likely had sealed and merged with it. If not, she would not have become the gedo statue.

Samlex1234 said:
Now to clarify a few things:

1. Otsutsuki don’t just “evolve” by taking chakra from the Ten Tails. The chakra fruit they consume contains the energy and genetic data of the sacrificed Otsutsuki plus every person who’s ever lived or died on that planet. It’s not just raw power, it’s accumulated existence.
Click to expand...
Yeah, true.

The chakra fruit is accumulated existence in the form of chakra. However, the Juubi in a way is also a form of accumulated existence since it absorbs chakra by consuming every living thing around it, including nature energy. Just that they lack Otsutsuki data in particular. that differentiates them from the Shinju. However, a Juubi can still maintain being a Juubi for a period even after having consumed Otsutsuki chakra seeing that the one in the war arc had Kaguya’s chakra.
Samlex1234 said:
2. When the Ten Tails consumes an Otsutsuki, it becomes the god-tree nothing more. The reason Ten-Tails in Boruto is evolving differently is most likely because of Karma like Boruto mentioned. Code altered their genetics with Karma, which is why they’re sentient.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but you have to be thorough. We can infer that Ten Tails does go through certain evolution till it reaches Divine Tree status. The one in the war arc was moving through multiple stages of development - V1, V2, V3 - before finally becoming the god tree. It took Boruto's juubi, after consuming Isshiki's essence, 3 years to become a God tree. Obviously the stages won't be apparent due to Code dividing its chakra into Grimes.
Samlex1234 said:
As for Senjutsu : it refers to Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, and Taijutsu that use nature energy. Shinjutsu, which surpasses all conventional Ninjutsu, also surpasses Senjutsu by extension.

But more importantly, according to the databook, TSOs are not classified as Senjutsu. They’re mainly Ninjutsu. Even Kaguya’s ETSO is specifically Kekkei Mōra Ninjutsu, not Senjutsu. That distinction matters.
Click to expand...
All right.

Well, Kaguya was most likely the projenitor of ninjutsu seeing that she practiced hand seals. And the fact that Hagoromo said Indra was following his mother's way.. My theory is Kaguya copied and reproduced some hand seals from the ancient Sages style of clapping or putting their hands together, sometimes in prayer fashion to perform senjutsu. We saw the Juubi when it developed the humanoid V3 form, clapping its hands together in Sage-like fashion during the war arc in order to amass power and fire bijuu bombs. Indra most likely researched and further developed the hand seal patterns, I believe.

The TSO skill could also likely be a shinjutsu as well, however, I much doubt it. I suspect Kaguya was the one Amado was referring to trying to copy the true Otsutsuki Gods Shinjutsu, which she got inspiration to develop her techs (which further devolved into ninjutsu by Indra). So TSO might have just been a weaker replica of Omnipotence - a pseudo shinjutsu to speak.
 
Last edited:
vsbattles.com

Naruto vs Naruto

This is Low 6-B Sage Mode Naruto vs Death Battle Ashura Kurama Mode Naruto. Speed is equalized and Canon Naruto takes the place of Death Battle Ichigo. Six Tailed Cloak and Bijuu Bomb for Canon Naruto is restricted. Naruto: Also Naruto: Ichigo should've won tbh:
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Union Arena vs Weiss Shwarz. Which do you think would be the best fit for a Naruto x Boruto Card Game Adaption? Doubt the IP, as popular as it is, will get the One Piece treatment...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Xdsagecat
It's the Ōtsutsuki clan crt. Come inside, it's fun inside!
2
Replies
67
Views
4K
Xdsagecat
Xdsagecat
YungManzi
Reinhard van Astrea Vs. Sasuke Uchiha
3 4 5
Replies
177
Views
4K
Robo432343
Robo432343
Celest_Void
  • Locked
Isshiki should not be 4-B
Replies
38
Views
3K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Naruto-Boruto verse 250+ Strongest Characters within the Franchise {Including Movies, Filters, Ova’s, Games, Light Novels and Specials}
Replies
9
Views
3K
Louise1959
MochOath
Naruto Uzumaki and Sasuke Uchiha vs Ryomen Sukuna [0-7-0]
2
Replies
50
Views
6K
Totentanz2440
Totentanz2440
Back
Top