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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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I think those Kurama-sized ones are already that size from the beginning. There's no statement of an enlargement ability.They Dont "Expand" from their shrunken size, they get restored instantly, there is no pushback because there is no speed here, its just an instant restoration to their normal size
if we take the non instant interpretation, then you would have to cope that not only is this statement false, But that Jigen can expand the rods while their inside naruto and sasuke and cause damage, which would mean he could have Reverse-Vored them, expanding until they literally explode (he can enlarge them to kurama sizes so theres no size copium)
It's just plot that prevented him from blowing Naruto and Sasuke up.
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This is Copium , its stated instant, no antifeats, makes more sense then "Plot" also the place where Isshiki draws the inspiration for his powers literally has it as a power, he also had that giant sealing pod
Siddhi - Wikipedia
- Aṇimā: the ability to reduce one's body to the size of an atom. (Kokugan)
- Mahimā: the ability to expand one's body to an infinitely large size.
- Laghimā: the ability to become weightless or lighter than air.
- Garimā: the ability to become heavy or dense.
- Prāpti: the ability to realize whatever one desires. (Ada)
- Prākāmya: the ability to access any place in the world. (otsutsuki stuff)
- Īśitva: the ability to control all material elements or natural forces. (shibai)
- Vaśitva: the ability to force influence upon anyone. (Ada)
Also for those interested in Bordo inspiration
Five siddhis, according to Vaishnava doctrine
In the Bhagavata Purana, the five siddhis brought on by yoga and meditation are:- trikālajñatvam: knowing the past, present and future. (Senringan + Prescience)
- advandvam: tolerance of heat, cold and other dualities. ( Samlex would love this one for Shibai)
- para citta ādi abhijñatā: knowing the minds of others, etc. ( not yet in the story)
- agni arka ambu viṣa ādīnām pratiṣṭambhaḥ: checking the influence of fire, sun, water, poison, etc. ( not yet in the story)
- aparājayah: remaining unconquered by others ( probably ascended Shibai)
Ten secondary siddhis, according to Vaishnava doctrine
In the Bhagavata Purana, Krishna describes the ten secondary siddhis- anūrmimattvam: Being undisturbed by hunger, thirst, and other bodily appetites. ( Literally ascended Shibai)
- dūraśravaṇa: Hearing things far away. ( Probably some random abiliity)
- dūradarśanam: Seeing things far away. (Byakugan)
- manojavah: Moving the body wherever thought goes (teleportation/astral projection). (Senringan, blatantly)
- kāmarūpam: Assuming any form desired. ( Another one we dont have)
- parakāya praveśanam: Entering the bodies of others. (Literally the entire race)
- svachanda mṛtyuh: Dying when one desires. ( why would you need this ?LMAO)
- devānām saha krīḍā anudarśanam: Witnessing and participating in the pastimes of the gods. (Shibai)
- yathā saṅkalpa saṁsiddhiḥ: Perfect accomplishment of one's determination. (Shibai)
- ājñāpratihatā gatiḥ: Orders or commands being unimpeded. (Shibai/Omnipotence)
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It's not copium, boss. It is common sense.
I can also say why didn't Isshiki lock them in temporal stasis or fire through their skulls. It is simple, he just didn't do it on plot basis
He probably can expand. However, what is fact is there is no direct statement for sukuna hikona or Isshiki himself, having such an ability.Siddhi - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The actual scale of the power here can be different then isshikis but its clear it can expand things too (especially considering apart from number 3 and 4, every other ability here is owned by someone in the Bordo verse)
- Aṇimā: the ability to reduce one's body to the size of an atom. (Kokugan)
- Mahimā: the ability to expand one's body to an infinitely large size.
- Laghimā: the ability to become weightless or lighter than air.
- Garimā: the ability to become heavy or dense.
- Prāpti: the ability to realize whatever one desires. (eida)
- Prākāmya: the ability to access any place in the world. (otsutsuki stuff)
- Īśitva: the ability to control all material elements or natural forces. (shibai)
- Vaśitva: the ability to force influence upon anyone. (eida)
Yes, a sealing pot can be that big from the beginning. There are giant things made in the Naruto world without necessarily having expanded them.
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Making far more assumptions then me about plot induced stupidity isnt basic common sense
Plot-induced stupidity is a common accepted trope in fiction. You are aware of it.
Isshiki is irrelevant, his aim is far better,he held back against them, he thought he was above them to begin with, im talking about when Jigen had them on a kebab stick or before that
Jigen could have still done so. Didn't he want to eliminate Sasuke and seal Naruto? Did he do any of the things I mentioned which would have shut them down better?
if statements matter then do you accept the statement of things being restored to their full size instantly
Instant statements" are judged on a case-by-case basis. Many verses use "Instant" for high-speed motion which is not truly instant. It's just a higher order of speed - Hypersonic, Relativistic, LS, FTL, MFTL etc.
However, if Isshiki is truly restoring the object instantly, it means the object warps back to its original size without motion. That would make sukuna hikona a space-time ability as well. But that's a bit hard to believe since Baryon Mode Naruto moved faster than the restoration, and Sasuke has already described them as "high-speed". Then again, Sasuke doesn't see it clearly, so you have a point.
takes less assumptions to assume he can just enlarge things like the literal place of inspiration for his ability rather then he just so happened to have giant BLACK rods lying around that he likes to play with, alongside a giant sealing pot
Alright. There is already a counter-statement from Amado that Isshiki just restores it to the original size. Which we should follow for now.
Imo, if I were you the best take is to argue that the object warps back to the original size without any motion whatsoever. I think I misunderstood you earelier.
Plot-induced stupidity is a common accepted trope in fiction. You are aware of it.
Isshiki is irrelevant, his aim is far better,he held back against them, he thought he was above them to begin with, im talking about when Jigen had them on a kebab stick or before that
Jigen could have still done so. Didn't he want to eliminate Sasuke and seal Naruto? Did he do any of the things I mentioned which would have shut them down better?
if statements matter then do you accept the statement of things being restored to their full size instantly
Instant statements" are judged on a case-by-case basis. Many verses use "Instant" for high-speed motion which is not truly instant. It's just a higher order of speed - Hypersonic, Relativistic, LS, FTL, MFTL etc.
However, if Isshiki is truly restoring the object instantly, it means the object warps back to its original size without motion. That would make sukuna hikona a space-time ability as well. But that's a bit hard to believe since Baryon Mode Naruto moved faster than the restoration, and Sasuke has already described them as "high-speed". Then again, Sasuke doesn't see it clearly, so you have a point.
takes less assumptions to assume he can just enlarge things like the literal place of inspiration for his ability rather then he just so happened to have giant BLACK rods lying around that he likes to play with, alongside a giant sealing pot
Alright. There is already a counter-statement from Amado that Isshiki just restores it to the original size. Which we should follow for now.
Imo, if I were you the best take is to argue that the object warps back to the original size without any motion whatsoever. I think I misunderstood you earelier.
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No proof Jigen is as good at aiming Sukonahikona , or that he can even open a direct portal to diakokuten to bfr people
not a counter, thats talking about the shrunken objects, doesnt say he cant enlarge them too. Ill drop this point since its not too relevant anyway
Thats what im arguing , its why its instant
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All right, I misunderstood your position earlier.
Argue that Sukuna Hikona qualifies for space-time manipulation as well.
Fighting this guy without regen or some form intangibility would be a pain.
Edit: Limited space-time manipulation, actually.
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2 Interpretations, none of which give naruto Teleportation level speed
1. Isshiki didnt shrink them and restore them, and the paneling is just weird, he just threw them
2. Isshiki threw them , naruto dodged , isshiki restored (so they missed naruto because he dodged them being restored) and then naruto caught them at their restored speed
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Yeah i mean both nardo and sasuke are lucky that their main characters, and also naruto being nigh immortal while sasuke also has regen.
Cant imagine being a side character and having to fight this, remember when kashin kojis clone just had its eyes stabbed out? Lmao
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Assuming the verse page has every character and I don’t need to check elsewhere for hidden characters of this verse I think I should be done with the scaling chain drafts
He intercepts his own Rasenshuriken against A3
MinatoSparkle
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I thought you were arguing against that but ok
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initially yeah, but Bee's standard TBB is accepted as FTL, which changes things from my initial stance
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The speed disparities are going to be ridiculous in the verse, I'm sure.
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Average HST verse problem
MinatoSparkle
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Are you gonna propose basically every high tier being FTL? That's gonna be a shit show I'm sure
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Every fodder jonin could react to the Ten-Tails' Biju Bomb, and Eight-Tails outraced it.
Although now that I think about it, for plot reasons the Biju Bomb can't be FTL. It literally wouldn't make any sense considering some of the scenes we have of it travelling large distances. If it was FTL it'd circle the globe 7 times a second but we have scenes where it definitely takes longer than that no matter what powerscaling excuses we come up with.
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We'll obviously it's because the Naruto Earth is bigger than Jupiter. /s
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not really
currently the character i propose get upgraded are
a3
a4 (v1 as thats scaled to kcm1)
kcm1
sm (wa) (possibly)
edo jins
edo jins v2
edo jins (bijuu)
Bee (Bijuu state)
obito
guy
kakashi
sakura
zetsu
itachi
nagato
kisame (SH fusion)
madara hashirama tobirama (all forms)
minato (mkcm2)
kushina (possibly?)
sasuke (4gnw)
a4 (v1 as thats scaled to kcm1)
kcm1
sm (wa) (possibly)
edo jins
edo jins v2
edo jins (bijuu)
Bee (Bijuu state)
obito
guy
kakashi
sakura
zetsu
itachi
nagato
kisame (SH fusion)
madara hashirama tobirama (all forms)
minato (mkcm2)
kushina (possibly?)
sasuke (4gnw)
think I missed anyone?
with subrel itd take less than 3 seconds to circle the earth+naruto planet size is consistently portrayed massively above standard earth, it doesn't even have the same geography as our world lol
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I think it'd be slower than that too; most of the Naruto characters are currently overated - in my opinion.
Apollonir.Scale
He/Him- 1,162
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Hiruzen
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that's fair
what feat did he have to deserve it
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while i agree with you that the speed scaling would need to be really looked at i don't think this case is one.
1. The distance the bomb was fired from was quite a large distance, A sub rel character could probably react to it easily, heck high end MHS+
2. THey still had kurama chakra amping them howbeit in a shrunken down state noted by katsuya
3. Bee outran it coz the walls slowed it down a lot especially the final main wall, the dude who made it was capable of restraining the 10 tails so slowing the bomb down is not far fetched
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@Ghostimuscrime this is one of the speed issues i noticed.
1. base minato could drop a kunai in time to teleport the TBB while coming from pretty much off screen. He'd have to have ftl reactions at least. This would affect kcm2 naruto and possibly obito and kakashi. It would also affect tobirama and sage mode madara
1. base minato could drop a kunai in time to teleport the TBB while coming from pretty much off screen. He'd have to have ftl reactions at least. This would affect kcm2 naruto and possibly obito and kakashi. It would also affect tobirama and sage mode madara
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yeah I was thinking of downgrading base minato to MHS+ with FTL reactions
he currently has subrel likely for the cloud brother shenanigans and masked man obito gets his MHS+ from Minato which makes it all weird
so changing it to this makes me think those issues are solved
Base : MHS+ combat with FTL reactions
SM : higher
KM : FTL combat
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Didn't you just say that the walls slowed down the Biju Bomb in the post above?
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,953
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I really don't know the difference between A4's LCM but wouldn't Sasuke's reaction scale to him?
That scaling is in a vacuum anyways because nobody blitzes him as far as I remember
Also, I'm fairly certain Base Minato would end up scaling to him
Other mentions:
1. Sage Mode Kabuto (Self Explanatory)
2. The rest of the gokage
I'm going to reserve the rest of my observations for whenever the thread gets made
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you're right problem solved
Apollonir.Scale
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Considering that he surpassed Tobirama, he shouldn't be much less than him in terms of speed. He was able to save Naruto from the divine tree without Tobirama noticing. He can help Hashirama and Tobirama in battle.
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,953
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Sparkle has a whole thesis on minato's speed rating in-verse
Safe to say what you're proposing doesn't exactly align with his views
Have fun though
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well damage just fixed the problem. Only kcm minato would be ftl. I'm pretty sure his base self would get a speed revison along with some other characters if i recall correctly
yeah no i disagree with most of these ratings. Narratively there should be no way these guys should be ftl
KaydeeX
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base minato profile is outdated
his reactions scale to Juubidara who is 4c
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hell no. Bro and his combo attack with kakashi got swatted away
KaydeeX
Username Only- 1,045
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reactions
he intercepted and teleported madara tso
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Guys I'm playing storm one and there is a mission where i have to use only ninjutsu to win the battle yet simultaneously land at least 3 hits on my opponent when the character is down. Help !!!!!!!!
KaydeeX
Username Only- 1,045
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storm 1 in big 2025 is crazy ngl
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he most definitely did not react. I still don't understand why madara is rated as 4c here. since when did him at one eye apply to speed? He should just upscale from ftl(1.1c) obito until something is done for guy
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I never played storm 1 and 2. I just played 3
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may I see a scan for the first?
I don't think the others are really enough grounds to say he gets this
as a D1 Minato downplayer i have to
/sI am only changing the naruto sm and edo jin stuff
everyone else was previously scaled to kcm1 naruto is getting the tier changed with justifications being the same
um akshually its 4.56 c
I think he should get ftl reactions cuz he tp'd out of the way before AY got to hit, this is presuming their young versions scale as fast as their wa forms
if you don't think that is the case then he doesnt get it
1 eye juubidara is treated as 50% Hagoromo
so he's given half of Prime Hags speed
9.12/2 = 4.56
