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I will not be talking about anything involving "The Last" Naruto film due to numerous reasons that involve cinema... but here are characters that seem to need a downgrade due to the fact that they are being powerscaled to Hagaromo due to his statement that "Madara is approaching my power, but seems to aim higher" and Kurama later stating that "Madara is just like the old man (the sage)":
Sage of Six Paths Madara, Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke, Might Guy (8th Gate).
Maybe: Shinju and Hagaromo. possibly Kaguya's durability.
First of all: The Moon creation feat being unreliable to any character tier.
I do take this into account: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DontTalk/Luna_creation_calc_-_Naruto?, but I would simply like to suggest that using Chibaku tensei from Naruto and Sasuke was only possible because they used the seals that are visible on their hands. The same goes for Hagaromo and his brother, who sealed Kaguya before-hand. Therefore, I would suggest that including "creating the Moon" to be thrown out of every character's AP due to each of them being incapable of applying such a feat individually.
That is not the only reason as to why I believe the Moon creation feat is not reliable for any of the listes characters: Kaguya, after coming into contact with the yin and yang seals, was shown having her third eye shut as a showing that she was losing control over her chakra: http://www.***********.net/naruto/690/3. Due to that reason, it could be suggested that the source of power that created the Moon-sized chibaku tensei did not come from her sealers alone, but herself after being touched by the signs. This is supported by the fact that her chakra went out of her control and that she lost the ability to hold in the tailed beasts as shown starting from this scan: http://www.***********.net/naruto/690/5. After-all, what sense would be made if the ability was a simple Chibaku Tensei and that she would not be able to escape from it? The seal from both Naruto and Sasuke caused her chakra to be lost from her and resulted in her self-destruction.
In short, creating the Moon should be disregarded when scaling these characters.
Secondly: discussing Madara/Guy and Madara needing a new key for absorbing the Shinju tree
I believe we've already had a discussion about how powerscaling to Hagaromo is unreliable to each character's tier, and I do stand by that as of now, but what comes next would heavily downgrade One-eyed Madara and Might Guy.
One-eyed Madara should be simply powerscaled to be superior to Obito since that is the only thing we have to go off of for his tier. His one-eyed state is entirely featless as shown when reading the manga (please correct me if I am wrong).
One-eyed Madara should be listed as "At least 6-B, likely higher" and Might Guy in 8 gates should be downgraded to that tier as well. (Madara was also damaged by Naruto's magma rasen-shurikan, which was before he turned on his BM cloak)
However, Madara should be given another key and another tier due to absorbing the Shinju tree prior to fighting both Naruto and Sasuke. His power clearly increased, but to an unknown degree since his one-eyed mode was still practically featless at this point as well.
Madara with the shinju tree absorbed should be listed as "At least 6-A, possibly higher" since he would be superior to his previous state due to absorbing the tree and gained the rinne-sharingan third eye... thing: http://www.***********.net/naruto/673/9, http://www.***********.net/naruto/673/12, http://www.***********.net/naruto/673/15
Thirdly: discussing Naruto, Sasuke, and complete sage Madara
Naruto and Sasuke with the sage powers should be listed as "At least 6-A, likely higher" due to their clear ability to individually outmatch Madara before he could gain the 2nd rinnegan: http://www.***********.net/naruto/674/10 , http://www.***********.net/naruto/674/14, http://www.***********.net/naruto/674/17
Madara should be listed as "likely High 6-A" with both rinnegan due to scaling above Naruto and Sasuke (since he was fully confident that, with the power he achieved, he would be capable of defeating them): http://www.***********.net/naruto/678/15
Naruto and Sasuke later gain a power-up during their final fight... I'd suggest listing them as "unknown" until a reliable calculation is made for their clash (The massive explosion in the air), but they both should probably be listed as "At least High 6-A" in that regard.
The reason I'm bring this up is due to the fact that it seems as though all characters are being compared to the moon creation feat and Kaguya's planet busting potential and nothing more. I was led to believe that we were supposed to support "feats" over "statements" when looking at scaling characters. The sage was featless outside of creating the Moon with his brother. Naruto and Sasuke's feats outside of creating the Moon are vastly inferior.
But anyways: the result of these changes would list each character as follows:
One-eye Madara: At least 6-B, At least 6-A with tree absorbed
Complete sage Madara: Likely High 6-A
Naruto and Sasuke with sage powers: At least 6-A, At least High 6-A during final encounter
Might Guy 8 gates: At least 6-B
PS: I'll kindly wait for any hate comments.
Sage of Six Paths Madara, Naruto, Rinnegan Sasuke, Might Guy (8th Gate).
Maybe: Shinju and Hagaromo. possibly Kaguya's durability.
First of all: The Moon creation feat being unreliable to any character tier.
I do take this into account: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DontTalk/Luna_creation_calc_-_Naruto?, but I would simply like to suggest that using Chibaku tensei from Naruto and Sasuke was only possible because they used the seals that are visible on their hands. The same goes for Hagaromo and his brother, who sealed Kaguya before-hand. Therefore, I would suggest that including "creating the Moon" to be thrown out of every character's AP due to each of them being incapable of applying such a feat individually.
That is not the only reason as to why I believe the Moon creation feat is not reliable for any of the listes characters: Kaguya, after coming into contact with the yin and yang seals, was shown having her third eye shut as a showing that she was losing control over her chakra: http://www.***********.net/naruto/690/3. Due to that reason, it could be suggested that the source of power that created the Moon-sized chibaku tensei did not come from her sealers alone, but herself after being touched by the signs. This is supported by the fact that her chakra went out of her control and that she lost the ability to hold in the tailed beasts as shown starting from this scan: http://www.***********.net/naruto/690/5. After-all, what sense would be made if the ability was a simple Chibaku Tensei and that she would not be able to escape from it? The seal from both Naruto and Sasuke caused her chakra to be lost from her and resulted in her self-destruction.
In short, creating the Moon should be disregarded when scaling these characters.
Secondly: discussing Madara/Guy and Madara needing a new key for absorbing the Shinju tree
I believe we've already had a discussion about how powerscaling to Hagaromo is unreliable to each character's tier, and I do stand by that as of now, but what comes next would heavily downgrade One-eyed Madara and Might Guy.
One-eyed Madara should be simply powerscaled to be superior to Obito since that is the only thing we have to go off of for his tier. His one-eyed state is entirely featless as shown when reading the manga (please correct me if I am wrong).
One-eyed Madara should be listed as "At least 6-B, likely higher" and Might Guy in 8 gates should be downgraded to that tier as well. (Madara was also damaged by Naruto's magma rasen-shurikan, which was before he turned on his BM cloak)
However, Madara should be given another key and another tier due to absorbing the Shinju tree prior to fighting both Naruto and Sasuke. His power clearly increased, but to an unknown degree since his one-eyed mode was still practically featless at this point as well.
Madara with the shinju tree absorbed should be listed as "At least 6-A, possibly higher" since he would be superior to his previous state due to absorbing the tree and gained the rinne-sharingan third eye... thing: http://www.***********.net/naruto/673/9, http://www.***********.net/naruto/673/12, http://www.***********.net/naruto/673/15
Thirdly: discussing Naruto, Sasuke, and complete sage Madara
Naruto and Sasuke with the sage powers should be listed as "At least 6-A, likely higher" due to their clear ability to individually outmatch Madara before he could gain the 2nd rinnegan: http://www.***********.net/naruto/674/10 , http://www.***********.net/naruto/674/14, http://www.***********.net/naruto/674/17
Madara should be listed as "likely High 6-A" with both rinnegan due to scaling above Naruto and Sasuke (since he was fully confident that, with the power he achieved, he would be capable of defeating them): http://www.***********.net/naruto/678/15
Naruto and Sasuke later gain a power-up during their final fight... I'd suggest listing them as "unknown" until a reliable calculation is made for their clash (The massive explosion in the air), but they both should probably be listed as "At least High 6-A" in that regard.
The reason I'm bring this up is due to the fact that it seems as though all characters are being compared to the moon creation feat and Kaguya's planet busting potential and nothing more. I was led to believe that we were supposed to support "feats" over "statements" when looking at scaling characters. The sage was featless outside of creating the Moon with his brother. Naruto and Sasuke's feats outside of creating the Moon are vastly inferior.
But anyways: the result of these changes would list each character as follows:
One-eye Madara: At least 6-B, At least 6-A with tree absorbed
Complete sage Madara: Likely High 6-A
Naruto and Sasuke with sage powers: At least 6-A, At least High 6-A during final encounter
Might Guy 8 gates: At least 6-B
PS: I'll kindly wait for any hate comments.
