Naruto discussion thread

[Kepekley23]

KCM4 Naruto has a City level+ feat, and Orochimaru is = him.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Would jiraiya scale to tsunade and orochi?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Tsunade and Jiraya would scale to Orochimaru

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The Three Sanin were always comparable ,with Tsunade>Orochimaru before

 

[Kepekley23]

Tsunade has Low 7-C+ feats.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

what about jiraiya's incomplete sage mode? Would that make him stronger?

 

[Kepekley23]

Nah. Orochimaru is at least 7-B, while Tsunade is around Low 7-C+. Jiraiya should scale to Orochimaru at his peak, though.

 

[Kepekley23]

I think:

Orochimaru (Gen'yumaru's body) >> Jiraiya ~ Orochimaru (Original) > Tsunade works just fine.

 

[Omimi]

@LordGriffin1000

Example: While Naruto is Low 5-B with the moon thing, he is not that with his other Jutsu or Physically.


but he has many feats what put his AP/Dura at Low 5-B

kaguya chakra arms AP is Low 5-B and naruto tank an attack from her chakra arms which able to destroy sasuke PS with ease

with Unrivalled Strength he was able tooverpower her chakra arms

also some of his clone destroyed her chakra arms

 

[Kepekley23]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Naruto_Revision:_Part_II

Here.

I maaay be finished, but I feel like it was way too easy to be true. Something might be missing be here.

 

[Js250476]

Looks good to me and I agree with sayian that Itachi one shoting Orochimaru's giant snake form is worth mentioning

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Things seem to be going good on this thread.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

Shouldn't Madara's PS and Hashirama's Wood Golem be Small Island level instead of Mountain level since it was made pretty clear that Madara and Hashirama > Kurama. Also it should be noted that Hashirama did indeed capture some of the tailed beasts(including Kurama which was then sealed inside his wife) by himself to distribute between the other villages.

 

[Kepekley23]

I think it's because he has a Mountain level feat and it fits in with the other Bijuus.

 

[Joseph619]

Some random peeps from the Sarutobi clan have a 240-frickin' megaton feat, but since it took 14 of them, it is "only" 20 or so megatons.

Ignore those stuff, they will destroy scaling. Naruto fodders have crazy feats often which make no sense.

 

[Joseph619]

Shouldn't Madara's PS and Hashirama's Wood Golem be Small Island level instead of Mountain level since it was made pretty clear that Madara and Hashirama > Kurama. Also it should be noted that Hashirama did indeed capture some of the tailed beasts(including Kurama which was then sealed inside his wife) by himself to distribute between the other villages.

Hashirama's wood can tame bijuus by restraining their chakra, it's his specialty. Doesn't mean he has higher AP then the bijuu. We should preferably stick to his own feats. All of them are in the same range anyway, not much inconsistrncy there

 

[Joseph619]

Things seem to be going good on this thread.

Indeed. Seems like my note about offtopic comments worked! I think we can finish this within a week or so

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

question why doesnt obito scale to kcm1 naruto as he fought him and was winning also tanked a rasengan from a kcm2 if i remember

also orochimaru was nowhere near equal to 4 tails naruto as he couldnt even damage him while naruto was handily beating him also why is jiraiya and orochimaru so far above tsunade considering tsunade destroyed madara ribcage susanoo and a little before that when ohnoki raised madara up with earth style sage naruto rasenganed his ribcage susanoo but did nothing and sage naruto is above both orochimaru and jiraiya


also itachis susanoo and sasuke are around equalish or atleast should be

but madaras is far stronger as when Ay or A hit sasukes rib cage susanoo he broke it and actually hit sasuke but all he could do to madaras was ragdoll it around

so it would make sense that this madara susanoo is above itachis and sasukes another

reason as to why it makes sense its stronger is that when naruto and sasuke were fighting juubito sasuke was using this form of susanoo rather than armored susanoo

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I want to point something out, the walking susanoo are comparable to BM. We're not talking about PS, but, the full body walking susanoo. This is made evident with Naruto and Sasuke vs Juubito. We have this feat here where BSM Naruto and Curse Mark Susanoo Sasuke get slammed by Juubito, which gets rid of the avatars and leaves Naruto and Sasuke with minor injuries from getting slammed which implies BSM was ~ CurseMark Susanoo, which also implies that without SM or CM buffs, they'd be roughly equal still:













So, we have to remember, the Kage were fighting 5 of these things. That's not to say the Kage are equal to 5 of them, just that they have the skill to fight 5 of them and last and not die, but in that same regard, we have to realize that at some level, they have to be a bit above 7-C no?

These Susanoo are equivalent to BM based on scaling from Sasuke, but unlike PS, lack the AoE or Destructive Capacity of the Biju. They're more AP centric. I again think PS, BSM, SM Hashirama are scalable from Juubi (I'll explain if yall want).

 

[Kepekley23]

You should explain, yes.

Also, the Kages fighting a full-body Susanoo would be an outlier. Those Susanoos are 7-A.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

You should explain, yes.
Also, the Kages fighting a full-body Susanoo would be an outlier. Those Susanoos are 7-A.

They're 7-A based on what? The only Reason I'm pushing them as equivalent to BM Naruto is because Curse Mark Susanoo and BSM are portrayed as equivalent in a actual fight spanning multiple chapters.

 

[Kepekley23]

Based on Madara destroying a mountain range with a slash.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

As for why I think Several Characters scale from Juubi is Because of several feats.

• Juubi tries to to destroy the Hokages barrier it's trapped in with it's Bijudama and it holds strong.

• Juubito Uses his Chakra Arms and casually pops the barrier.

This is where the feats come into play.

• SM Hashirama is strong enough to restrict the Juubi's movements with his Gates of the Great God Sealing Jutsu

• BSM Naruto and BM Minato together Destroy Juubito's Chakra Arms forcing him to block with the TSB's which are cracked in the proccess.

• BSM Naruto and CMS Sasuke partially shatter Obito's TSB's

• BSM Naruto alone Shatters Obito's TSB Shield.

• Hashirama states BM Naruto has almost as much chakra as him which further backs up the notion that their SM forms scale.

Who scales:

• BSM Naruto (50% Kyuubi)

• PS Sasuke (EMS)

• PS Madara (Edo + EMS)

• SM Hashirama

• SM Madara

The scaling is based off:

Naruto's Rasengan Barrage > TSB > Naruto's Bijudama + Sasuke's Susanoo Arrow (Partially Shattered TSB) > Father-Son Rasengan (Cracked TSB) > Juubito's Chakra Arms > Hokage's Barrier > Juubi's Large Bijudama.

 

[Omimi]

@TheFinalOrder

Sasuke was also powered by sm naruto+kurama chakra+CM against jubito

and in my opinion sm madara does not scale to jubito cuz even bm naruto stomped him

but if its alive rinnagan+sm madara then its k

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Omimi

Not Juubito. Juubi. There's a difference. And Sasuke being powered by BSM Naruto is a non factor here. In terms of Power, PS would be equivalent to BSM in place of Curse Mark Susanoo.

Sasuke simply had no use for Juugo being as Naruto was more efficient.

And BM Naruto only knocked down Madara, he didn't even damage his Susanoo (Which again, going by The fight Naruto and Sasuke had with Juubito, is already equivalent to BM) it took a serious swing from all 9 Biju just to destroy the Susanoo, and Madara still overpowered BM Naruto with his rinnegan Sealing Jutsu I could say it's likely an Outlier that they mangaged to even break it as Madara was so vastly overpowering them that he tanked a frontal assault, smacked them all down and sealed them all away near casually without much resistance.

And we know in Naruto, Sealing Jutsu can be resisted and even no-sold if you're strong enough.

 

[Omimi]

@TheFinalOrder

sorry i misread the juubi part

if i remember correctly none of them(ems user) ever used PS

they only used PS after getting rinnagan

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

nope. apparently the user only needs a much higher chakra lvl, or just better means of doing (ems madara had both the means- ems- and the higher chakra lvl, while sasuke only had the means- ems- but not enough chakra, which is why he did it after fusing with Naruto. and if u don't have ems, then u need much higher chakra lvls- people like ms kakashi+ obito's chakra, or indra for example)

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Also, I do want to continue discussion about the scaling errors from the blog. Kepekley has already agreed that Sound 4 should scale to 8-B, Possibly Higher in Base (Though I'd argue "Likely" is the better terminology to use as Sasuke is shown as Inferior to a non-serious S4).

This provides us with better a opportunity to scale better.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

agreed.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

Usually I don't want to involve myself but given that I was the one that informed Thomas that the random Iwa ninja was Ittan and a chunin, I might as well add more of my cents of knowledge.

I'll start with the popular guy, Madara Uchiha.

Given that Naruto has been upgraded to City Level due his Kyuubi Cloak v2, It's safe to say that Madara scales around that in his base or higher. Given that Madara used Uchiha Return to nullify and reflect Naruto's own bijuu-dama.

Feat: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YC_WV5Epx...EZeqDg4wbM_pR-CutdxlwgCHM/s16000/0601-013.png) and http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_fR4SRa_c...1fe60ahmCP_S7u5Y2N4urwCHM/s16000/0601-014.png

Obito able to tank some of Naruto's physical hits doesn't surprise me given that he has half the Rinnegan to amp him up (Tho he couldn't handle the other eye and all). Also many of us tend to miss this feat but when Obito was in Tobi persona he was shown and stated to knock the Three tails itself out cold. (Note: Deidara stated that he did the heavylifting but that doesn't take away the feat due to Obito at the time was keeping up appearances, also Obito stated that Kisame could have handeled the Three tails as well). So where would they scale in these feats?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I'm telling you guys that Naruto characters have Split Durabilty. They can take Blunt force and Energy attacks just fine, but cutting and piercing attacks will do them in. This should be considered in the scaling also. Only characters with Chakra cloaks gain protection against Cutting and Piercing attacks like Armor Haki in One Piece as an Example.

 

[Frantzy12]

I'm telling you guys that Naruto characters have Split Durabilty. They can take Blunt force and Energy attacks just fine, but cutting and piercing attacks will do them in. This should be considered in the scaling also. Only characters with Chakra cloaks gain protection against Cutting and Piercing attacks like Armor Haki in One Piece as an Example.

I acutally said this and a mod instantly locked my thread lol.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

You should explain, yes.
Also, the Kages fighting a full-body Susanoo would be an outlier. Those Susanoos are 7-A.

Im not talking about the Perfect susanooo im talking about the susanoos that the 5 kage fought

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

yeah alot of peeps get confused between the Susanoo forms

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I don't think we can really measure the power of those Susanoo's, it' safe to say its far superior to the incomplete Susanoo´┐¢. so i think it should be 7-C at the very least.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I don't think we can really measure the power of those Susanoo's, it' safe to say its far superior to the incomplete Susanoo´┐¢. so i think it should be 7-C at the very least.

Why 7-C when itachi tanked the kirin and is City+ and they should be superior to it

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

<divclass="quote">ShrekAlmighty wrote:
<divclass="quote">Shadowbokunohero wrote:
I don't think we can really measure the power of those Susanoo's, it' safe to say its far superior to the incomplete Susanoo. so I think it should be 7-C at the very least.</div>Why 7-C, when Itachi tanked the kirin and is City+ and they, should be superior to it </div> Because Those Susanoo's were created by his wood clones and likely far weaker, its possible though.. I just gave a minimum to what they should be

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

There is no reason as to why those susanoos should be weaker than a considerebly weaker form of susanoo and they probably arent as tsunade almost one shot his prior susanoo while being relatively equal to those

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

then she would be High 6-C, because its the same susanoo Sasuke used to fight alongside Naruto's Full cloak Kurama and the same Susanoo Madara used to protect himself from all 9 tailed beasts with out getting killed

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

That was sage mode madara so it was sage enchanced same as with sasuke as he used jugos curse mark and curse mark and sage mode are very similiar