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Thanks to this thread, Killer Bee now gets FTL TBBs
so this is a sequel crt that will outline who scales to what
so with that being said let's begin
FTL : The Bijuu are scaled to each other all 9 of them would be relative to
Shukaku : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts
Matatabi : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Isobu : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Son Goku : Flicked Gyuki around, Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Kokuo : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Saiken : Tagged KA Naruto (Ch571) Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Chomei : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Gyuki : (See next section)
Kurama : He is far superior to the Tailed Beasts, as his power allowed Naruto to casually send five incoming Tailed Beast Bombs flying.
New Proposal :
Edo Jinchuriki Bijuu Mode and Base Bijuu tiering should be separated, decided here, due to this they wont be ftl and should get their subrel ratings removed, their new ratings should likely be MHS+ because this
Post Publish Edits :
-It is proposed the other gokage should also be allowed to scale here
With that I believe that should be all unless the verse page doesnt have all the characters in the verse.
so this is a sequel crt that will outline who scales to what
so with that being said let's begin
WA Profile
Base = MHS+ = Faster than before
Sage Mode = FTL = Can keep up with A3 and tag him
KCM1 = FTL = Can intercept his own Rasenshuriken which is as fast as Killer B's Tailed Beast Bomb, tagged third Raikage [Ch554, Ch551]
higher with Empowerment (Blitzed the Fourth Raikage's fastest punch) [Ch544]
higher with Kurama Mode (Faster than before), even higher Kurama Mode Avatar (Faster than before)
MKCM2, MKCM1 are all faster than before so no justification changes needed, we change the subrel to ftl
Base = MHS+ = Faster than before
Sage Mode = FTL = Can keep up with A3 and tag him
KCM1 = FTL = Can intercept his own Rasenshuriken which is as fast as Killer B's Tailed Beast Bomb, tagged third Raikage [Ch554, Ch551]
higher with Empowerment (Blitzed the Fourth Raikage's fastest punch) [Ch544]
higher with Kurama Mode (Faster than before), even higher Kurama Mode Avatar (Faster than before)
MKCM2, MKCM1 are all faster than before so no justification changes needed, we change the subrel to ftl
Profile
FTL (Easily evaded Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto's attacks several times including his Rasenshuriken, Naruto considers Third Raikage's speed to be comparable to Fourth Raikage) [Ch554]
FTL (Easily evaded Kurama Chakra Mode Naruto's attacks several times including his Rasenshuriken, Naruto considers Third Raikage's speed to be comparable to Fourth Raikage) [Ch554]
Ay's Profile
Now the Gokage in general don't need much change, aside Ay the others are not scaled to either Ay and Madara which is fair given they were not taken seriously by him so they can mostly stay as they were. Ay is scaled to KCM1 naruto and since that naruto has FTL speeds, Ay would too, justifications remain the same just the subrel gets changed to FTL
Base Ay = MHS+
V1 Ay = FTL (already scaled to kcm1 naruto)
V2 Ay faster than before)
Now the Gokage in general don't need much change, aside Ay the others are not scaled to either Ay and Madara which is fair given they were not taken seriously by him so they can mostly stay as they were. Ay is scaled to KCM1 naruto and since that naruto has FTL speeds, Ay would too, justifications remain the same just the subrel gets changed to FTL
Base Ay = MHS+
V1 Ay = FTL (already scaled to kcm1 naruto)
V2 Ay faster than before)
Sasuke's Profile
FKS Key :
his MHS+ with Subrel Reactions should be changed to
MHS+, upto FTL reactions with Amaterasu (Faster than before, Can activate Amaterasu before the Fourth Raikage can tag him) [Ch463]
He didnt dodge Ay's hits because this was a bait , ay lured sasuke to hit him
but sasuke can activate amaterasu before Ay hits so he should get credit for that
his 4GNW key should be FTL since he kept up with naruto but I would like to add more :
Comparable to Naruto + his old justifications
FKS Key :
his MHS+ with Subrel Reactions should be changed to
MHS+, upto FTL reactions with Amaterasu (Faster than before, Can activate Amaterasu before the Fourth Raikage can tag him) [Ch463]
He didnt dodge Ay's hits because this was a bait , ay lured sasuke to hit him
but sasuke can activate amaterasu before Ay hits so he should get credit for that
his 4GNW key should be FTL since he kept up with naruto but I would like to add more :
Comparable to Naruto + his old justifications
FTL =
Naruto refers to them collectively when stating him and Killer B can't catch them
Gyuki says it's hard to get their attacks to hit them which would include Killer B's partial transformation attacks and KCM1 Naruto's attacks [Ch565]
Is what I wish to put as their justifications, I would also like to remove their alive keys from getting the same scaling because these likely stronger due to obito's influence, their V1 forms would be superior and bijuu modes would be even higher
Yugito Nii
Yagura Karatachi
Roshi
Fu
That should be all I believe, the others don't seem to have to profiles to begin with
Naruto refers to them collectively when stating him and Killer B can't catch them
Gyuki says it's hard to get their attacks to hit them which would include Killer B's partial transformation attacks and KCM1 Naruto's attacks [Ch565]
Is what I wish to put as their justifications, I would also like to remove their alive keys from getting the same scaling because these likely stronger due to obito's influence, their V1 forms would be superior and bijuu modes would be even higher
Yugito Nii
Yagura Karatachi
Roshi
Fu
That should be all I believe, the others don't seem to have to profiles to begin with
Shukaku : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts
Matatabi : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Isobu : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Son Goku : Flicked Gyuki around, Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Kokuo : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Saiken : Tagged KA Naruto (Ch571) Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Chomei : Comparable to other Tailed Beasts, would be faster than their V1 cloaked forms that were relative to Kakashi and Might Guy [Ch567]
Gyuki : (See next section)
Kurama : He is far superior to the Tailed Beasts, as his power allowed Naruto to casually send five incoming Tailed Beast Bombs flying.
New Proposal :
Edo Jinchuriki Bijuu Mode and Base Bijuu tiering should be separated, decided here, due to this they wont be ftl and should get their subrel ratings removed, their new ratings should likely be MHS+ because this
Bee's profile
His Base can stay at MHS+, I don't think the extra reaction points are REALLY needed
his V1 is scaled to Ay so that can stay, same with v2 the updated version would look like
Bijuu Mode :
His Base can stay at MHS+, I don't think the extra reaction points are REALLY needed
his V1 is scaled to Ay so that can stay, same with v2 the updated version would look like
Bijuu Mode :
Might Guy
Base : MHS+ (same as before)
At Least Sub Relativistic with Gates 1-5 (The First Gate multiplies Guy's speed by 5, the other four gates increase his speed even higher)
FTL with Sixth Gate (Tagged Obito Uchiha and forced him to use Kamui) [Ch566]
higher with Seventh Gate
8th Gate : same as it was before
Base : MHS+ (same as before)
At Least Sub Relativistic with Gates 1-5 (The First Gate multiplies Guy's speed by 5, the other four gates increase his speed even higher)
FTL with Sixth Gate (Tagged Obito Uchiha and forced him to use Kamui) [Ch566]
higher with Seventh Gate
8th Gate : same as it was before
Kakashi's Profile
His DMS key should get the gates removed for this
His Gate Amps are not applied to his AP, I'd like to change that and add them to it
his 4GNW Key should go from (subrel, upto rel with 1st gate) to (ftl 1c, upto higher 5c with 1st gate) due to the upgrades
justifications will remain the same
I'd also love to propose he scale to 50% of madara's speed via kamui
His DMS key should get the gates removed for this
His Gate Amps are not applied to his AP, I'd like to change that and add them to it
his 4GNW Key should go from (subrel, upto rel with 1st gate) to (ftl 1c, upto higher 5c with 1st gate) due to the upgrades
justifications will remain the same
I'd also love to propose he scale to 50% of madara's speed via kamui
Sakura's profile
again WA Key, she's given MHS for some reason there's hefty amount of evidence brought out to give sakura 6c ap scaling based on being comparable to them but by the same logic she should get FTL combat speed like them. Only Tier Change, Justifications stay the same
this may potentially affect god tiers speeds due to Kido scaling
again WA Key, she's given MHS for some reason there's hefty amount of evidence brought out to give sakura 6c ap scaling based on being comparable to them but by the same logic she should get FTL combat speed like them. Only Tier Change, Justifications stay the same
this may potentially affect god tiers speeds due to Kido scaling
ZETSU PROFILE
His profile has not been updated in a long time, I think the idea that he himself has AP should be removed if he truly had L5B levels of AP, he'd just dogwalk all of shippuden and forcefully seize the bijuu for himself, he was essentially a non factor, the feats he had against Juubidara I would like to award to Obito, he still had a good chunk of six paths chakra left in him that allowed him to be useful against Kaguya, perhaps an additional key named post Juubi Extraction, since he pierced Madara and knocked back the TSO he can have 1R Juubidara's ap and speed
I personally see obito reacting to madaras tso as a obito feat than a zetsu feat
Post Juubi Extraction Obito : (this obito fuels kakashi to become a god tier so it should be fair game)
Small Planet Level (Could deflect Madara's TSO)
FTL [4.56c] (reacted to Madara's attack and impaled him, deflected his TSO)
Zetsu :
since he's scaled to the likes of Minato and Kakashi I will not try to change much due to lack of sufficient evidence, the speed should change from rel to ftl because the two are now ftl as well
Removal of the moon level stuff (it hasnt been updated since the verse gt upgrades)
varies x speed (blah), upto FTL (previous justification for minato and kakashi stuff)
His profile has not been updated in a long time, I think the idea that he himself has AP should be removed if he truly had L5B levels of AP, he'd just dogwalk all of shippuden and forcefully seize the bijuu for himself, he was essentially a non factor, the feats he had against Juubidara I would like to award to Obito, he still had a good chunk of six paths chakra left in him that allowed him to be useful against Kaguya, perhaps an additional key named post Juubi Extraction, since he pierced Madara and knocked back the TSO he can have 1R Juubidara's ap and speed
I personally see obito reacting to madaras tso as a obito feat than a zetsu feat
Post Juubi Extraction Obito : (this obito fuels kakashi to become a god tier so it should be fair game)
Small Planet Level (Could deflect Madara's TSO)
FTL [4.56c] (reacted to Madara's attack and impaled him, deflected his TSO)
Zetsu :
since he's scaled to the likes of Minato and Kakashi I will not try to change much due to lack of sufficient evidence, the speed should change from rel to ftl because the two are now ftl as well
Removal of the moon level stuff (it hasnt been updated since the verse gt upgrades)
varies x speed (blah), upto FTL (previous justification for minato and kakashi stuff)
Itachi's Profile
So his profile is weird, he has MHS+ likely subrel in his p1 and edo forms, I wish to change that
Itachi is treated as a very deadly enemy and is known for his god level intelligence and ability to pull things out of his ass to hard counter his enemies as if he's playing 4D chess, characters fearing him would have utmost caution and would certainly use FP to take him down, naruto did not hold back in speed, he cannot afford to let itachi get an upperhand in anything, not just genjutsu, so edo itachi scales to the full value of kcm1 narutos speed [fight should be around the ch548s]
(I think itachi is scaled to this naruto but this naruto was likely considered fatigued at the time hence not getting the subrel stuff)
he also scales above EMS Sasuke's speed albeit with Susano, they're generally treated by the narrative as comparable (he later on had feats of being comparable to kcm1 naruto, ik he got an emotion amp but those are stated to affect dojutsu stuff so sasuke's combat speeds are still the same), there's this statement saying Itachi and Nagato are the strongest forces of Obito, this would put them above the Edo Jinchuriki at their peak who are also FTL)
So the changes I want are
Key 123 :
1) FTL (Superior to his Edo Tensei and sick states + old justification)
2) MHS+ (old justification)
3) FTL (Full on FTL scaling+old justification+ "Is stated to be the strongest forces of Obito's along with Nagato putting him above the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki)
So his profile is weird, he has MHS+ likely subrel in his p1 and edo forms, I wish to change that
Itachi is treated as a very deadly enemy and is known for his god level intelligence and ability to pull things out of his ass to hard counter his enemies as if he's playing 4D chess, characters fearing him would have utmost caution and would certainly use FP to take him down, naruto did not hold back in speed, he cannot afford to let itachi get an upperhand in anything, not just genjutsu, so edo itachi scales to the full value of kcm1 narutos speed [fight should be around the ch548s]
(I think itachi is scaled to this naruto but this naruto was likely considered fatigued at the time hence not getting the subrel stuff)
he also scales above EMS Sasuke's speed albeit with Susano, they're generally treated by the narrative as comparable (he later on had feats of being comparable to kcm1 naruto, ik he got an emotion amp but those are stated to affect dojutsu stuff so sasuke's combat speeds are still the same), there's this statement saying Itachi and Nagato are the strongest forces of Obito, this would put them above the Edo Jinchuriki at their peak who are also FTL)
So the changes I want are
Key 123 :
1) FTL (Superior to his Edo Tensei and sick states + old justification)
2) MHS+ (old justification)
3) FTL (Full on FTL scaling+old justification+ "Is stated to be the strongest forces of Obito's along with Nagato putting him above the Edo Tensei Jinchuriki)
Nagato Profile
I will leave Pain stuff untouched, Edo Nagato like Itachi gets the statement of being obitos deadliest forces giving him FTL combat and at least FTL reactions for reacting to Naruto
I will leave Pain stuff untouched, Edo Nagato like Itachi gets the statement of being obitos deadliest forces giving him FTL combat and at least FTL reactions for reacting to Naruto
Obito Profile
As said prior I requested a new key, white hair obito has feats and is super relevant to the story it would be weird not to let him have a key
His JJ Key can stay as is, his 4GNW since it's scaled to KCM1 Naruto should be changed from subrel to FTL, the justification can stay as is
Post Juubi Extraction Key :
Small Planet Level (Could deflect Madara's TSO) Ch666
FTL [4.56c] (reacted to Madara's attack and impaled him) Ch665
As said prior I requested a new key, white hair obito has feats and is super relevant to the story it would be weird not to let him have a key
His JJ Key can stay as is, his 4GNW since it's scaled to KCM1 Naruto should be changed from subrel to FTL, the justification can stay as is
Post Juubi Extraction Key :
Small Planet Level (Could deflect Madara's TSO) Ch666
FTL [4.56c] (reacted to Madara's attack and impaled him) Ch665
Kisame Profile
His samehada fusion key goes from subrel to FTL, no justification change
His samehada fusion key goes from subrel to FTL, no justification change
Madara's Profile
Since madara scales above kcm2's speed [ch601] as well as reacted to sage mode naruto his edo base gets FTL
as it's the weakest form of madara among the keys allowed in his profile, his other forms and keys all either piggyback off of this form or have better feats, all subrelativistic stuff gets changed to ftl [1c] and the previous ftl stuff stays as it was, as always justifications will stay unchanged
Since madara scales above kcm2's speed [ch601] as well as reacted to sage mode naruto his edo base gets FTL
as it's the weakest form of madara among the keys allowed in his profile, his other forms and keys all either piggyback off of this form or have better feats, all subrelativistic stuff gets changed to ftl [1c] and the previous ftl stuff stays as it was, as always justifications will stay unchanged
Kushina's Profile
scales to Kurama so tier switch from subrel to ftl, justifications unchanged
scales to Kurama so tier switch from subrel to ftl, justifications unchanged
Minato's Profile
Since he scales above his near death wife as well as Kurama, his base starts at FTL,
there is a bit of an issue here, he is starting at subrel in his alive human form, while obito scaled to this minato is MHS+ so we'd have to either downgrade minato or upgrade masked man obito to FTL (this will make every version of obito the same speed, upgrading even Konan and possibly pain which will lead to sage mode naruto) Imo a simple solution is that we put masked man obito at unknown or mhs (killed a bunch of people who should be above neji who's a chunin) and Orange Mask Obito can be MHS+ for being comparable to other akatsuki members
Since he scales above his near death wife as well as Kurama, his base starts at FTL,
there is a bit of an issue here, he is starting at subrel in his alive human form, while obito scaled to this minato is MHS+ so we'd have to either downgrade minato or upgrade masked man obito to FTL (this will make every version of obito the same speed, upgrading even Konan and possibly pain which will lead to sage mode naruto) Imo a simple solution is that we put masked man obito at unknown or mhs (killed a bunch of people who should be above neji who's a chunin) and Orange Mask Obito can be MHS+ for being comparable to other akatsuki members
So I learned here that upscaling to the next speed tier is permissible under 1.5x speed differences, kinda makes sense given kaguya is allowed to go to 10c from 9.12c based on a got faster statement the current Kakashi calc is Mach7981.sth sth
Baseline Subrel is Mach8740.3
the difference between these two are 1.09513x
as you can see it's very tiny, so I believe characters that scale to kakashi and then get upgraded in speeds vaguely should be allowed to enter baseline subrel which is Mach8740.3
ch230 has sasuke be able to easily react to naruto, even lands hits on naruto
in ch231, he an only dodge thanks to precog, gets knocked back even at times, naruto's speed makes sasuke think close combat is not a good option, needing to maintain distance, otherwise he gets blitzed, says he can dodge (likely due to precog and despite having it gets blitzed as shown before) implying he cant engage in combat, he later on needs CS v2 state to combat naruto ch232
what kid naruto does is have his kn0 scale to city level+ and his kn1 upscales to Mountain Level
so I thought we can do the same here kn0 scales to HIGH end MHS+ so kn1 or one tails and cs2 kid sasuke should upscale to baseline subrel start of shippuden base naruto can stay at mhs+ by virtue of being relative to Kakakshi, his one tails and any state beyond this can be baseline subrel, Jiraiya despite the issues managed to seal 4 tails off screen so base jiraiya should be subrel so should tsunade and orochimaru, this would also upscale hanzo and mifune and FKS sasuke, Sick Itachi would also benefit from this because despite sasuke's cs2 he retains superiority and is above everything sasuke can do, narratively portrayed far higher as he was toying the entire time and also sasuke likley believes he caught upto cs2 levels of speed hence doesnt try to blitz itachi with it so sick itachi should also get baseline subrel. Since the weaker pains can beat up jiraiya, those pains+sage mode naruto get subrel. Fks sasuke base being subrel makes Bee and Ay's bases also Subrel which upgrades base Kisame
Baseline Subrel is Mach8740.3
the difference between these two are 1.09513x
as you can see it's very tiny, so I believe characters that scale to kakashi and then get upgraded in speeds vaguely should be allowed to enter baseline subrel which is Mach8740.3
ch230 has sasuke be able to easily react to naruto, even lands hits on naruto
in ch231, he an only dodge thanks to precog, gets knocked back even at times, naruto's speed makes sasuke think close combat is not a good option, needing to maintain distance, otherwise he gets blitzed, says he can dodge (likely due to precog and despite having it gets blitzed as shown before) implying he cant engage in combat, he later on needs CS v2 state to combat naruto ch232
what kid naruto does is have his kn0 scale to city level+ and his kn1 upscales to Mountain Level
so I thought we can do the same here kn0 scales to HIGH end MHS+ so kn1 or one tails and cs2 kid sasuke should upscale to baseline subrel start of shippuden base naruto can stay at mhs+ by virtue of being relative to Kakakshi, his one tails and any state beyond this can be baseline subrel, Jiraiya despite the issues managed to seal 4 tails off screen so base jiraiya should be subrel so should tsunade and orochimaru, this would also upscale hanzo and mifune and FKS sasuke, Sick Itachi would also benefit from this because despite sasuke's cs2 he retains superiority and is above everything sasuke can do, narratively portrayed far higher as he was toying the entire time and also sasuke likley believes he caught upto cs2 levels of speed hence doesnt try to blitz itachi with it so sick itachi should also get baseline subrel. Since the weaker pains can beat up jiraiya, those pains+sage mode naruto get subrel. Fks sasuke base being subrel makes Bee and Ay's bases also Subrel which upgrades base Kisame
Post Publish Edits :
-It is proposed the other gokage should also be allowed to scale here
With that I believe that should be all unless the verse page doesnt have all the characters in the verse.
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(idk how the wiki treats the bijuu, might be outdated might be a reason I'm not aware of) 
