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Naruto Calculation Discussion: Biju Dama Requiem

M3X

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Was the three days them running casually? I thought it was for them running in an emergency? If they were casually running then the speed estimate based on that is probably useless.
It's a generic calc for the 3 days statement. A calc can be made for an actual feat, since they arrived at Suna in less than 3 days.
 

M3X

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BTW, if we fix the planet shot and use it, would it be better for the calc or not? I mean, I don't care about the results, really. I just want to calc the feat with that method being accurate as possible
 
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If you wanna argue by the planet shot someone would need to fix that scaling first. The value of that is currently a little inflated.
Pretty sure it would still not be anywhere near the actual value because in the planet shot most of the country is covered by clouds making visibility next to impossible.
 
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It's a generic calc for the 3 days statement. A calc can be made for an actual feat, since they arrived at Suna in less than 3 days.
Oh, I initially thought they ran full 3 days in Boruto or in the Gaara situation, I don't remember very well, I watched those arcs years ago. My apologies for the confusion then.
 
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Was the three days them running casually? I thought it was for them running in an emergency? If they were casually running then the speed estimate based on that is probably useless.
the emergency speed was actually faster since the time until Kankuro died was 3 days later and they still had a fair bit of time leftover to cure him
 

Damage3245

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If I recall correctly, Kakashi and company made it to the Sand in two and a half days after they started hurrying?
 

DontTalkDT

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Ok, so I would say the running speed based calc is out due to inconsistency in the running speed and stamina trouble.
Even if we were to use 2.5 days, that would be 251px in 60h or 4.2 px/h. Still way slower than all other travel feats.

So it would be planet shot or mountains, I think?

Again, clouds fuck up the real distance. I saw the scan once more.
I there no version of the shot one could properly scale the country from? I mean it would still require a ton of angsizing to figure out the distance anyway, so I would still want to see if the result is realistic, but we could at least have a look at it if a proper shot exists.
 
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I there no version of the shot one could properly scale the country from? I mean it would still require a ton of angsizing to figure out the distance anyway, so I would still want to see if the result is realistic, but we could at least have a look at it if a proper shot exists.
Jvando might know about it. He's the one that got the scan.
 

DontTalkDT

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Something like that
Since we will be operating with angsizing here I wanna ask: Was that image cropped in editing or is the height/width of the upper half the same as in the movie?

Edit: Also I take it there is general agreement that this planet shot can in principle be used, right? No canon issues or anything, yes?
 

M3X

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Since we will be operating with angsizing here I wanna ask: Was that image cropped in editing or is the height/width of the upper half the same as in the movie?
I couldn't find the movie in english, only in portuguese. So here is the exact moment of the pic.
Edit: Also I take it there is general agreement that this planet shot can in principle be used, right? No canon issues or anything, yes?
If it's more accurate than the map and the mountain, yeah.
 
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The main problem with that shot is the the country borders are guessed since we dont actually see them. Made especially worse with the clouds covering a lot of the edges.
 

DontTalkDT

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Trying to do the calc based on planet size right now.
Does somebody have a version of this map, without the colored lines on it?

unknown.png
 

DontTalkDT

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Ok, so I'm too lazy to also find also the other scans to redo the calculation properly. I will leave that part to you supporters that know where to find them. I will just use the existing calculation for the results.

Ok, so first, the scaling from the planet:
E16ECYd.png
The red line is going from the coast of the ocean between the land of iron and land of hot water, to the coast of the ocean south-west of the land of frost. (I will later in the calc draw that in on the map if you don't know what I mean yet)
Now, you won't see that from looking at the image like that. To see that it is the case, watch the clip and focus on the described area when it is in focus. Then follow where it ends up as the planet rotates.

Now, why am I using this shot of the planet, if I can get a much clearer shot of the area if I'm scaling earlier? Two reasons.
  1. The camera is now very far away from the planet. Far enough that the planet curvature scaling stuff is negligible.​
  2. The country I'm scaling is now very close to the horizon. If I had scaled it when at the front I would have scaled the diameter of the planet/horizon, which is in the background, to the country, which was in the foreground. That would inflate the result. Now, however, they are close to each other, solving that problem.​
In total, what that means, is that by taking this shot I don't need to employ angsizing to get the desired result (and I spare myself a lot of complicated math). That is always good!

With that said, we can start the scaling.
Green line = Planet Diameter = 882px = 12742 km
Red line = coast to coast distance = 24px = 346.72 km

With that measurement, we can go to the map:
mcySlVt.jpg
So, the distance between the coasts we scaled is approx. the red line here.
Red line = 102 px = 346.72 km
Grey line = 45.5 px = 154.7 km

So, that is the same grey line as in the first pixel scaling step in this calc, so we can use the rest from there.

That would then result (if I didn't miss any scaling step not being linear) in the mountain height being 0.8526329393477099271053844 km and the radius being 1.593077334042611981785923 km.
The volume of the cone would then be 2.266 km^3 = 2.266e15 cm^3.
With vaporization (25700 J/cm^3) that would result in 5.82362e19 J.

And the second vaporization value would be similar execution become 2.51727204293358671381e22 J.

Someone should probably write down that calculation going properly through all steps to make sure I got that right.


Anyway, 852m tall mountain, instead of 609m tall one, is in the realm that makes sense.
 
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A problem I have is why is the red line for sure the same spot on the map? why could you not have used that for the grey line which would be even close to the edge of the planet?
 
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Ok, so I'm too lazy to also find also the other scans to redo the calculation properly. I will leave that part to you supporters that know where to find them. I will just use the existing calculation for the results.

Ok, so first, the scaling from the planet:
E16ECYd.png
The red line is going from the coast of the ocean between the land of iron and land of hot water, to the coast of the ocean south-west of the land of frost. (I will later in the calc draw that in on the map if you don't know what I mean yet)
Now, you won't see that from looking at the image like that. To see that it is the case, watch the clip and focus on the described area when it is in focus. Then follow where it ends up as the planet rotates.

Now, why am I using this shot of the planet, if I can get a much clearer shot of the area I'm scaling earlier? Two reasons.
  1. The camera is now very far away from the planet. Far enough that the planet curvature scaling stuff is negligible.​
  2. The country I'm scaling is now very close to the horizon. If I had scaled it when at the front I would have scaled the diameter of the planet/horizon, which is in the background, to the country, which was in the foreground. That would inflate the result. Now, however, they are close to each other, solving that problem.​
In total, what that means, is that by taking this shot I don't need to employ angsizing to get the desired result (and I spare myself a lot of complicated math). That is always good!

With that said, we can start the scaling.
Green line = Planet Diameter = 882px = 12742 km
Red line = coast to coast distance = 24px = 346.72 km

With that measurement, we can go to the map:
mcySlVt.jpg
So, the distance between the coasts we scaled is approx. the red line here.
Red line = 102 px = 346.72 km
Grey line = 45.5 px = 154.7 km

So, that is the same grey line as in the first pixel scaling step in this calc, so we can use the rest from there.

That would then result (if I didn't miss any scaling step not being linear) in the mountain height being 0.8526329393477099271053844 km and the radius being 1.593077334042611981785923 km.
The volume of the cone would then be 2.266 km^3 = 2.266e15 cm^3.
With vaporization (25700 J/cm^3) that would result in 5.82362e19 J.

And the second vaporization value would be similar execution become 2.51727204293358671381e22 J.

Someone should probably write down that calculation going properly through all steps to make sure I got that right.


Anyway, 852m tall mountain, instead of 609m tall one, is in the realm that makes sense.
Nice, I was about to send you that exact full planet shot from the movie but I don't know how to directly upload pictures to the new forum.
 
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Also M3X forgot to calc the craters left behind by the BBs as well so that would have to be taken into account for the finished calc.
 

DontTalkDT

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Nice, I was about to send you that exact full planet shot from the movie but I don't know how to directly upload pictures to the new forum.
You can't upload pics directly. Those pics are also just uploaded to imgur and then added in via the Insert Image tool
 
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You can't upload pics directly. Those pics are also just uploaded to imgur and then added in via the Insert Image tool
I see.

BTW, I think you overshot the Earth line a bit into the atmosphere. I used an HD image from the movie itself and I got around 520-674 km distance.
 
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Anyway, I decided to zoom in closer to the Earth by going back a bit to make the country more visible for measurement while still maintaining the full planet shot and here's what I got.


Earth (Green) is 743px. The country line (Red) is 35px.

12742/(743/35)= 600.229 km

I could get another shot where the Earth is farther and the country is near the horizon but then the result is around 572 km like in my earlier example. Do you want me to make another shot like it using the HD images?
 

DontTalkDT

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Wait, I did indeed make the line slightly too long, but not that much.

PPoWrbR.png

873px = green line = 12742km
red line = 24px = 350.2955326460481096km
Barely a difference.


I think your red line is longer than it should be. It's hard to tell, since it's also rather thick.
 

M3X

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@DontTalkDT is it possible to use the planet shot that is closer to the pov to find the size of the country (grey line) and not the map?
 
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Wait, I did indeed make the line slightly too long, but not that much.

PPoWrbR.png

873px = green line = 12742km
red line = 24px = 350.2955326460481096km
Barely a difference.


I think your red line is longer than it should be. It's hard to tell, since it's also rather thick.
Nah, it's only 2px longer than yours but it's in the same place as you. My Earth is around 565px for some reason, even though I am getting the screenshots from the original 1080p Blu-Ray. Not sure how you got that 882px size Earth and a 1800p res image.
 
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OK, I re-did it again to make the scan look as similar to DontTalk's screenshot-taking position and I used an even thinner red line.


Earth (Green) is 622px. The Country (Red) is 22px.

Country: 12742/(622/22)= 450.681672026 km

Also, DT's scan seems to be a bit blurry despite being 1800p. And it has black bars for some reason. Most likely he took a low-quality shot. My shot has the clouds being considerably more crisp, even though I am using a crummy 1080p TV from like, 2010, albeit with a freakin' RTX 3090 and a 1080p OG blu-ray movie.
 

DontTalkDT

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Nah, it's only 2px longer than yours but it's in the same place as you. My Earth is around 565px for some reason, even though I am getting the screenshots from the original 1080p Blu-Ray. Not sure how you got that 882px size Earth and a 1800p res image.
A screenshot... that's how I got the image.

But yeah, your line is only 2px longer, but your image has a lower resolution than mine. If your line were the same length as mine it should be only about (556/882)*24 = 15 or 16 px long.

The resolution should not make more than a few percent difference in any case.
 
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A screenshot... that's how I got the image.

But yeah, your line is only 2px longer, but your image has a lower resolution than mine. If your line were the same length as mine it should be only about (556/882)*24 = 15 or 16 px long.

The resolution should not bake more than a few percent difference in any case.
Well your screenshot has the clouds considerably blurrier than mine for some reason. Did you take your screenshot from the original Blu-Ray or did you take it from some other source? Maybe your monitor is real high quality but the movie itself is possibly not (Since the actual movie is not supposed to have black bars on either the top or the bottom).
 
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KingTempest

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I have the movie downloaded on my computer if someone needs specific screenshots or videos
 
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I have the movie downloaded on my computer if someone needs specific screenshots or videos
Is it the full Blu-Ray in 1080p? Those things can go well beyond 30-40 GB

Though anything within the 15-20GB mark will also suffice as at that point the difference between an encoded release and a true uncut Blu-Ray Remux is negligible.
 

DontTalkDT

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Can you give me the full resolution pic of the earth without the lines on it in roughly the position of my pic? Then I can check for myself with resolution and everything.
 

KingTempest

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Is it the full Blu-Ray in 1080p? Those things can go well beyond 30-40 GB

Though anything within the 15-20GB mark will also suffice as at that point the difference between an encoded release and a true uncut Blu-Ray Remux is negligible.
oof, nvm
 

DontTalkDT

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Ok, so I watch that scene frame-by-frame a bunch of times now (that's why this took so long). There is a little bay there that starts mixing with the clouds as the planet turns, creating whiteish-blue pixels. That makes it really hard to tell where exactly the ocean ends, but I think I got it more or less correct now. If I had that one second of the full HD movie I could tell with more certainty. Anyway, using the pic KLOL send I then get the following:
tQdzdRE.png
green line = planet diameter = 616px = 12742 km
1 px = 20.6850649350649351 km
yellow line = 19 px = 393.0162337662337669 km

Honestly, I kinda don't like how a pixel more or less makes 21km difference. I think this distance is probably safe, though.
 
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I think for the map your red line also over laps with the sea by quite a bit on both sides.

Though is the recalc done up there for the red or grey lines? because I always thought it best to do the calc for the grey line straight up since we see that shot too.
 

DontTalkDT

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I think for the map your red line also over laps with the sea by quite a bit on both sides.

Though is the recalc done up there for the red or grey lines? because I always thought it best to do the calc for the grey line straight up since we see that shot too.
Yeah, I suppose the red line on the map could be a few pixels shorter.

We don't actually see where the grey line would be. That part of the land is covered by clouds, which is why I did it this way.
 

M3X

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Red Line: 96.6px = 393.0162337662337669km

Grey Line: 40.85px = 166.197858689km

sSWtyqL.jpg
 

M3X

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Anyway, using my calc now.

374.35px = 166.197858689km

7.71px = 3.51690816658km

Depth: 3.51690816658*0.18 = 0.63304346998

V = 1/6 * π * 0.63304346998 * (3 * 1.75845408329^2 + 0.63304346998^2) = 3.207621e+15cc

3.207621e+15*25700 = 8.243586e+19 Joules or 19.70 Gigatons

142px = 3.51690816658km

38px = 0.94114443894km

Volume: V = π * 1.75845408329^2 * 0.94114443894/3 = 3.0475228e+15cc

3.0475228e+15*25700 = 7.8321336e+19 Joules or 18.71 Gigatons

Total: 18.71+19.70 = 38.41 Gigatons.
 

Damage3245

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Eh, this conflicts with the distance between Suna and Konoha.
This would be a proper objection if we actually had a stated distance between Suna and Konoha.

The current calculation is only an approximation, not an objective figure.
 

M3X

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You mean the one gotten by travel speed? Yeah, as said, the travel speed thing just doesn't work well.
Heh, disagree with that. I prefer to rely on something we can actually consider as reliable than a shot of the planet where we needed one more step to scaling things. We are not calcing the country size but something, then to find the country. Doing that while we have proper ways to measure the country directly? Nah
 
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Ok, so I watch that scene frame-by-frame a bunch of times now (that's why this took so long). There is a little bay there that starts mixing with the clouds as the planet turns, creating whiteish-blue pixels. That makes it really hard to tell where exactly the ocean ends, but I think I got it more or less correct now. If I had that one second of the full HD movie I could tell with more certainty. Anyway, using the pic KLOL send I then get the following:
tQdzdRE.png
green line = planet diameter = 616px = 12742 km
1 px = 20.6850649350649351 km
yellow line = 19 px = 393.0162337662337669 km

Honestly, I kinda don't like how a pixel more or less makes 21km difference. I think this distance is probably safe, though.
IDK, that yellow line seems a bit too small for my taste and doesn't adequately go beyond the end of the clouds.
 
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Ok, so I watch that scene frame-by-frame a bunch of times now (that's why this took so long). There is a little bay there that starts mixing with the clouds as the planet turns, creating whiteish-blue pixels. That makes it really hard to tell where exactly the ocean ends, but I think I got it more or less correct now. If I had that one second of the full HD movie I could tell with more certainty. Anyway, using the pic KLOL send I then get the following:
tQdzdRE.png
green line = planet diameter = 616px = 12742 km
1 px = 20.6850649350649351 km
yellow line = 19 px = 393.0162337662337669 km

Honestly, I kinda don't like how a pixel more or less makes 21km difference. I think this distance is probably safe, though.
Shit shit shit that image is stretched because I used PrntScrn instead of the built-in screenshot of my video viewer, the actual resolution of the movie is 1920x1036 and not 1920x1080p. I'll upload the correct picture now. Fuck.
 

DontTalkDT

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This one went unanswered for some reason
Somehow thought I answered that already. Problem is that said part of the country is covered by clouds making it impossible to accurately scale. We would have to guess where the borders are, which I would rather avoid.

IDK, that yellow line seems a bit too small for my taste and doesn't adequately go beyond the end of the clouds.
As said, the clouds and the ocean really blur together in that scene, making it seem like some of the ocean is cloud IMO. If you can give me that small bit of video footage of the planet turning I can track it frame by frame in max resolution to get it right for sure.
 
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Somehow thought I answered that already. Problem is that said part of the country is covered by clouds making it impossible to accurately scale. We would have to guess where the borders are, which I would rather avoid.


As said, the clouds and the ocean really blur together in that scene, making it seem like some of the ocean is cloud IMO. If you can give me that small bit of video footage of the planet turning I can track it frame by frame in max resolution to get it right for sure.
Pretty sure it would get copystriked immediately or its quality would get butchered due to compression but I can give you the timeframe of the exact scene.

21m 48.688 seconds.

Also the yellow line for the country should reach near the water body at the top where the cloud meets the water (That is it's true length, if you go farther where the nation is more visible the clouds line up with the country's border), seems like your line doesn't reach that far.

I also noticed that your Earth shot is also stretched out like my previous PrintScreen screenshot, which makes me assume you used PrintScreen as well instead of using the video player's built-in screen capture which would give you screenshots in the original resolution of the movie itself.
 
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DontTalkDT

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Well, I can't find it in that high quality and don't feel like spending money on it, so let's just go with your scaling then.

Planet image:
Green line = 590px = 12742 km
Red line = 20px = 431.932203389830508km

Map image:
Red line = 96.6px = 431.932203389830508km
Grey line = 40.85px = 182.65 km
 
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Well, I can't find it in that high quality and don't feel like spending money on it, so let's just go with your scaling then.

Planet image:
Green line = 590px = 12742 km
Red line = 20px = 431.932203389830508km

Map image:
Red line = 96.6px = 431.932203389830508km
Grey line = 40.85px = 182.65 km
Yeah uh, about that...

I sort of re-did the pixel-scaling again (Haven't uploaded it, doing it in a moment) but with paint.net this time (because MS Paint's lines are too thick and obscures the clouds, plus it was days ago), and I sorta get... well... higher results.
 
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DontTalkDT

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sigh
Nah, that line now ends in the middle of the ocean, when it should end at the coast.

Y8grfRq.png
21.6px and that is a high end 🔫
 
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sigh
Nah, that line now ends in the middle of the ocean, when it should end at the coast.

Y8grfRq.png
21.6px and that is a high end 🔫
Pretty sure the coast is where the clouds meet the ocean (Where I drew the 28px line myself), the clouds are seen lining up a few seconds back where the planet wasn't in full view but the country itself was. You know, in the shot that Jvando originally took where the planet wasn't in full view but the country itself was?
 
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Lemme explain.

The first two shots I took are at 21m 43s

The second two shots I took are at 21m 45s

In both cases the clouds are seen moving to the jutting edge of the country marked in the yellow arrow. (Don't worry, it's the exact same spot we're using for measurements in the full-planet shot).
 

DontTalkDT

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Not sure what you're trying to tell me there.
We are in agreement that where you point the yellow arrow is not where our line ends, right? That's further left in that bay.
 
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Not sure what you're trying to tell me there.
We are in agreement that where you point the yellow arrow is not where our line ends, right? That's further left in that bay.
I'm saying that where I point with my yellow arrow, your line doesn't reach there fully (As in, your line doesn't reach the top fully where the clouds meet the ocean which is where the true end of the country is), but my line does.
 

DontTalkDT

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Yeah, gotta disagree with that. Look what happens when one overlays your scaling with the same picture without the scaling and fiddles with the transparency a bit:
heihXxF.gif
Those pixels at the front are definitely over area below which is already deep blue ocean. The line must be by that part shorter, which mine is.
 
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Yeah, gotta disagree with that. Look what happens when one overlays your scaling with the same picture without the scaling and fiddles with the transparency a bit:
heihXxF.gif
Those pixels at the front are definitely over area below which is already deep blue ocean. The line must be by that part shorter, which mine is.
Huh. Weird. Could have sworn that the area where your yellow line fades was green land, the ocean is much darker looking there compared to the land itself.
 

DontTalkDT

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That's your yellow line, not mine.
I don't think it's land. At least it doesn't look like that to me. Honestly, if there is debate over whether that is land or not I would go for the low end.
(Unless you want to precisely track the development of the coast frame by frame and do some editing to show it. I would do it, but... I don't have the HD footage)
 
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That's your yellow line, not mine.
I don't think it's land. At least it doesn't look like that to me. Honestly, if there is debate over whether that is land or not I would go for the low end.
(Unless you want to precisely track the development of the coast frame by frame and do some editing to show it. I would do it, but... I don't have the HD footage)
bruh

I mean, I got that yellow line by precisely going through the movie frame-by-frame to to see the cloud's end slowly merge with the coast as the planet rotates and stuff, even held my mouse pointer at that exact point to make sure I didn't screw lining things up.
 
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DontTalkDT

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I mean, I did the same and while my footage isn't as HD I got a different impression.
So idk, you gotta show your work somehow since the image alone doesn't show that being land.
 
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I mean, I did the same and while my footage isn't as HD I got a different impression.
So idk, you gotta show your work somehow since the image alone doesn't show that being land.
Maybe it's because your footage isn't HD that you got a different impression.

Also it's 10 whole seconds of the planet being shown on the movie, it'd be a shit-ton of work to screen-shot every single frame precisely.
 

DontTalkDT

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Maybe it's because your footage isn't HD that you got a different impression.
I go by your pictures on that, though. Unless you mean the frame by frame stuff, in which case, maybe? Maybe not? There's somewhat of a problem with claims that most people can't check.

Also it's 10 whole seconds of the planet being shown on the movie, it'd be a shit-ton of work to screen-shot every single frame precisely.
Not like you need every frame. Just enough to show you're correct. I did a calc with 28 slightly edited screenshots before just to upgrade a character from subsonic to supersonic lol

Although, @Damage3245, can you do a scaling on this? A third opinion would be really valuable here. If you end up having the impression the line should be as long as KLOL506 says we can lay this to rest and if not we can at least agree that the longer line needs more evidence before it can be accepted.
 
9,607
3,477
Anyway, I re-did it again and made sure not to touch the water near the clouds where I drew the yellow line (If you zoom in closely you can see the bodies of water on top and on the bottom), and this time the country length came in at 4px shorter, at 24px.

 

Damage3245

VS Battles
Sysop
Calculation Group
16,338
5,765
Will post here later tonight.

EDIT: The cloud coverage is making it pretty difficult for me to get a good scaling. I may need to find a more HD copy than what I have access to.

Just eye-balling the scaling up above though, I think that DT makes sense.
 
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