Naruto/Boruto AP and Cross-Scaling (STAFF ONLY)

[LordTracer]

> Base Naruto in The Last and New Era is ‘At least Mountain level+, likely far higher.

He’s scaling above his base form in the War Arc. Really it’s just a placeholder until we get something better.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am confused why Naruto would be much weaker than Sasuke at 5-C. If the new tiering is a placeholder, I honestly rather Naruto being Unknown.

The other changes look fine, to me.

 

[LordTracer]

I am confused why Naruto would be much weaker than Sasuke at 5-C. If the new tiering is a placeholder, I honestly rather Naruto being Unknown.

The other changes look fine, to me.

During New Era, Naruto is only equal to Sasuke with Six Paths Sage Mode, his base doesn’t scale to him.

 

[KingTempest]

I am confused why Naruto would be much weaker than Sasuke at 5-C. If the new tiering is a placeholder, I honestly rather Naruto being Unknown.

The other changes look fine, to me.

The difference between Naruto's base and his SPSM is weird

 

[LordTracer]

The difference between Naruto's base and his SPSM is weird

It really is, base Naruto has fought SPSM level more than once, even though he really shouldn’t be anywhere near that level.

 

[Shadyboi0]

I got permission from @KingTempest to comment here.

Wouldnt "Unknown" Possibly 5-C make sense for Base Naruto?

 

[LordTracer]

I would prefer ‘At least 7-A+, possibly 5-C.’

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

or the Varies tier.

 

[LordTracer]

So, just to recap everything:

• Part II SPSM Naruto and New Era SPSM Naruto scale above BSM Naruto from The Last, who scales to or above Toneri.
• Part II Rinnegan Sasuke and New Era Rinnegan Sasuke scale to the Naruto of their respective eras.
• Spirit Hagoromo scales to the full yield of Naruto and Sasuke’s moon creation calc, and Kaguya is implied to be superior to Hagoromo.
• Momoshiki and Kinshiki downscale from New Era Naruto and Sasuke.

Base Naruto’s tiering probably needs more discussion, but can all of this be applied now?

 

[Antvasima]

Who have accepted what so far?

 

[KingTempest]

So, just to recap everything:

• Part II SPSM Naruto and New Era SPSM Naruto scale above BSM Naruto from The Last, who scales to or above Toneri.

Agreed

• Part II Rinnegan Sasuke and New Era Rinnegan Sasuke scale to the Naruto of their respective eras.

Agreed

• Spirit Hagoromo scales to the full yield of Naruto and Sasuke’s moon creation calc, and Kaguya is implied to be superior to Hagoromo.

That's valid

• Momoshiki and Kinshiki downscale from New Era Naruto and Sasuke.

Fair

• Base Naruto in The Last and New Era is ‘At least Mountain level+, likely far higher,’ due to scaling above his Part II self.

More discussion is required.

The first 4 are fine for me

 

[Damage3245]

I concur with KingTempest.

 

[LordTracer]

Alright then, I’ll get started on the edits. Although I will need for these to be unlocked:

• Naruto Uzumaki (Part II: War Arc)
• Naruto Uzumaki (New Era)
• Sasuke Uchiha (Part II)
• Sasuke Uchiha (New Era)

 

[LordTracer]

Finished the edits for Kaguya, Momoshiki, Kinshiki and Hagoromo.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I have unlock them

 

[LordTracer]

Thanks!

 

[LordTracer]

Alright, all edits are finished. Now the only thing left is discussing Base Naruto.

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody willing to lock all of the mentioned profile pages please?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Is somebody willing to lock all of the mentioned profile pages please?

I will

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

So what is left to do here? Do we only have to make a decision about Naruto's base AP?

 

[LordTracer]

Yep, that’s the only thing left.

 

[KingTempest]

I would prefer ‘At least 7-A+, possibly 5-C.’

Naruto has consistent 5-C backscaling feats.
At least 7-A+ is the minimum he can get.

 

[LordTracer]

I know, I just figured people would have issues with him being straight-up 5-C.

 

[KingTempest]

I know, I just figured people would have issues with him being straight-up 5-C.

Because they perceive his transformation to be a massive amp that multiplies him by Billions of times.

Someone has feats, they scale.

Full Chakra focused can One Shot Toneri.
Can take multiple hits from Momoshiki.
Can match Delta.
Can kick around Isshiki and can fight him.

 

[LordTracer]

Alright, 5-C base Naruto is perfectly fine to me.

 

[Damage3245]

Full Chakra focused can One Shot Toneri.

I would not call this a base Naruto feat at all, since he is using all of his BSM chakra to deliver the attack.

Can take multiple hits from Momoshiki.

Isn't this for Momoshikis physicals which I thought we were putting as "unknown"? Or is this fused Momoshiki? Because base Naruto scaling to fused Momoshiki is even sketchier.

Can kick around Isshiki and can fight him.

Do you mean Jigen?

 

[LordTracer]

Isn't this for Momoshikis physicals which I thought we were putting as "unknown"? Or is this fused Momoshiki? Because base Naruto scaling to fused Momoshiki is even sketchier.

He took hits from both base and Fused Momoshiki.

 

[KingTempest]

I would not call this a base Naruto feat at all, since he is using all of his BSM chakra to deliver the attack.

Fair

Isn't this for Momoshikis physicals which I thought we were putting as "unknown"? Or is this fused Momoshiki? Because base Naruto scaling to fused Momoshiki is even sketchier.

Fused Momo, and it's cause physicals in Boruto are annoying. A lot of people already understand my issues with them.

Do you mean Jigen?

 

[Damage3245]

Goddamn, I hate Boruto powerscaling.

You've got Six Paths Naruto kicking base Jigen in the face, and base Naruto kicking Isshiki in the face.

The difference in power levels is enormous here, but the weakest version of Naruto is as effective against the strongest version of Isshiki, as the strongest version of Naruto is against the weakest version of Isshiki.

 

[KingTempest]

Goddamn, I hate Boruto powerscaling.

You've got Six Paths Naruto kicking base Jigen in the face, and base Naruto kicking Isshiki in the face.

The difference in power levels is enormous here, but the weakest version of Naruto is as effective against the strongest version of Isshiki, as the strongest version of Naruto is against the weakest version of Isshiki.

Like I always say, SPSM KCM in Boruto doesn't amp Naruto's stats, shown with everyone else Naruto fights

Consistent pre timeskip too

 

[LordTracer]

Like I always say, SPSM KCM in Boruto doesn't amp Naruto's stats, shown with everyone else Naruto fights

Well, it clearly does make a difference. While base Naruto could block a hit from Fused Momoshiki and take attacks from him, SPSM Naruto was able to straight-up overpower Fused Momoshiki.

It’s still an amp, but (apparently) not a major one.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I would not call this a base Naruto feat at all, since he is using all of his BSM chakra to deliver the attack.

Counter: he was in Base form while doing it, meaning that in base form he can use the chakra from his other forms to concentrate into his fist

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I advocate at Atleast High 7-A at most 5-C

 

[Damage3245]

Counter: he was in Base form while doing it, meaning that in base form he can use the chakra from his other forms to concentrate into his fist

I'm not sure how this is countering it.

It's still not base Naruto's power then. The only reason he looks like he's in base form is because everything is concentrated into his fist rather than across his whole body.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I'm not sure how this is countering it.

It's still not base Naruto's power then. The only reason he looks like he's in base form is because everything is concentrated into his fist rather than across his whole body.

how would this be different to how we treat stuff like Kaguya has X tier ETSB.

 

[KingTempest]

Well, it clearly does make a difference. While base Naruto could block a hit from Fused Momoshiki and take attacks from him, SPSM Naruto was able to straight-up overpower Fused Momoshiki.

SPSM Naruto has all the other abilities on top of it (precog, emotion sensing, a cloak for dura)

It’s still an amp, but (apparently) not a major one.

I'd take that

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[KingTempest]

I'm advocating for backscaling his current rating, maybe to baseline moon or moon+.

 

[Damage3245]

I think I'd rather base Naruto be Unknown tbh. Him kicking back Isshiki or Momoshiki kicking back are just too inconsistent with his performance against them in his Six Paths mode for my liking.

Or "Unknown, possibly 5-C".

 

[KingTempest]

I think I'd rather base Naruto be Unknown tbh. Him kicking back Isshiki or Momoshiki kicking back are just too inconsistent with his performance against them in his Six Paths mode for my liking.

Confused how it's inconsistent. He didn't fight Isshiki hand in hand, he got him off guard, but he's still relative in AP to him. And him w/ Momoshiki didn't change at all except his abilities helped his taijutsu, but his stats were exactly the same. I feel weird having Sasuke physically stronger than base Naruto.

Or "Unknown, possibly 5-C".

Fair