Naruto/Boruto AP and Cross-Scaling (STAFF ONLY)

[LordTracer]

@KingTempest gave me permission to make this staff-only, which I greatly appreciate, because it should make this go much more smoothly than if it were a normal CRT.

This thread spawned from what I said in the last thread, which is that there should be no cross-scaling whatsoever between the God Tiers of Naruto and Boruto, and our troublesome Ōtsutsuki (Kaguya, Momoshiki and Kinshiki) should simply be scaled to Toneri. This should prevent anymore Kaguya v. Momoshiki/Kinshiki or War Arc NaruSasu v. New Era NaruSasu debates, which would be one less headache for all of us. This also doesn’t change any tiers at all.

In comparison to all the other Ōtsutsuki, Toneri should be at the bottom of the barrel, beneath even Hamura, who had the Tenseigan before him and most likely longer as well. Toneri was also defeated by Naruto in Bijuu Mode or Bijuu Sage Mode, a form much weaker than his Six Paths Sage Mode that went against Madara and Kaguya only two years prior.

I’ve come up with some new justifications for some of the God Tiers to remove the cross-scaling and reflect the new Toneri scaling.

Kaguya
Moon level+ (Stated to be more powerful than Juubi Jinchūriki Madara, and was implied to be stronger than the Sage of Six Paths. Could casually overpower Naruto and Sasuke at the same time, and fought with Hagoromo and Hamura in the past)

Momoshiki
Moon level+ (Superior to Kinshiki. Appeared to harm Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto. His attack matched Naruto’s suppressed Kurama Avatar and was able to knock him unconscious)

Kinshiki
Moon level+ (While he is weaker than him, he was able to fight and trade blows with Sasuke Uchiha on two separate occasions)

These can be modified slightly if necessary, but hopefully they’re satisfactory in making our Naruto and Boruto God Tier scaling independent from each other.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I mean this all works with me, Toneri was one-shot by a Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto who didn't even have all his chakra

Also he is never mentioned to be a powerful Ootsuki when other Ootsuki are given tons of hype

It's blatantly obvious he is fodder to most Ootsuki

 

[RanaProGamer]

I don't have permission to speak here, so apologizing in advance, but since the new calc for Toneri has been accepted, shouldn't everyone who scales above him upscale to Small Planet Level, since the difference between 355.31 Exatons and 433 Exatons (baseline Low 5-B) is barely 1.2x which is basically non-existant?

 

[LordTracer]

I would prefer we not talk about upscaling until the thread on that topic gets resolved. This thread is solely for new justifications.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I would prefer we not talk about upscaling until the thread on that topic gets resolved. This thread is solely for new justifications.

That thread will never be finished I assure you

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Also he is never mentioned to be a powerful Ootsuki when other Ootsuki are given tons of hype

It's blatantly obvious he is fodder to most Ootsuki

You make it sound like we know a lot of Otsutsuki?. I'm not saying Toneri is stronger than most, I'm simply saying there aren't that many and the one's we do know aren't normal, Kaguya ate the fruit, Momoshiki and Kinshiki ate several fruit, Urashiki is inconsistent going by his profile, Hagoromo and Hamura are Kaguya's children and then you got Isshiki... that's 7 members of his race and some of them didn't start out as strong as they are when they appeared. If we new how strong the average Otsutsuki was then you could say he's fodder to most but so far we only got a few. It'd be more accurate to say he's fodder/bottom of the barrel to the Otsutsuki we've "actually seen".

With that said I completely agree with the descriptions suggested in the OP given they have solid reasons for being above Toneri.

 

[Damage3245]

In comparison to all the other Ōtsutsuki, Toneri should be at the bottom of the barrel, beneath even Hamura, who had the Tenseigan before him and most likely longer as well.

Is it okay if I ask for evidence for why Hamura should have more AP than Toneri?

Having the same occular jutsu, and having it for an unknown amount of time aren't AP justifications. Madara Uchiha and Nagato have the exact same Rinnegan, but we don't scale them directly to each other. Likewise for all members of the Hyuga clan.

By calcs, Hamura scales to 274.5 Exatons, while Toneri scales to 355.31 Exatons.

Why not just leave each of them at those values?

I'm not against "Should be stronger than X" ratings, but there needs to be good justifications for why they should be stronger than X.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @TISSG7Redgrave @Shadowbokunohero @Soldier_Blue @DarkDragonMedeus @DemonGodMitchAubin @Jvando @Ionliosite @Celestial_Pegasus @Mr._Bambu

What do you think about this?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

If I could I would bonk Urashiki with the Fodder hammer but I digress, I agree with this.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the input.

 

[LordTracer]

Is it okay if I ask for evidence for why Hamura should have more AP than Toneri?

Having the same occular jutsu, and having it for an unknown amount of time aren't AP justifications. Madara Uchiha and Nagato have the exact same Rinnegan, but we don't scale them directly to each other. Likewise for all members of the Hyuga clan.

By calcs, Hamura scales to 274.5 Exatons, while Toneri scales to 355.31 Exatons.

Why not just leave each of them at those values?

I'm not against "Should be stronger than X" ratings, but there needs to be good justifications for why they should be stronger than X.

Well, you’re alright with Kaguya > Toneri, right? Hamura was able to fight Kaguya alongside Hagoromo, so he should scale to the 355.31 Exatons value as well.

Btw your Madara/Nagato analogy is a bit weird since Madara, the older and more proficient user, is the stronger one of the two.

 

[Damage3245]

Well, you’re alright with Kaguya > Toneri, right? Hamura was able to fight Kaguya alongside Hagoromo, so he should scale to the 355.31 Exatons value as well.

Btw your Madara/Nagato analogy is a bit weird since Madara, the older and more proficient user, is the stronger one of the two.

Hamura fought the Juubi, not Kaguya. We don't scale the Juubi to the 355.31 Exatons value.

I'd rather stick with the 274.5 Exatons value which is from a calc that is for Hamura.

The analogy still stands; Madara ends up scaling higher than Nagato for other reasons. He doesn't scale directly to Nagato.

As for Kaguya > Toneri, I don't much see the point of it. Kaguya scales to Naruto, who scales to Toneri. There isn't any purpose in trying to cut out the middleman of the scaling and say Kaguya > Toneri when we can stick with the scaling as it is.

 

[LordTracer]

Hamura doesn’t really change anything with the other scaling so I’m fine with leaving him out.

It’s not cutting out the middleman, her scaling to Naruto (and Sasuke) is still mentioned in her justification. I don’t see any harm in directly mentioning that she’s superior to Toneri.

 

[Damage3245]

Hamura doesn’t really change anything with the other scaling so I’m fine with leaving him out.

It’s not cutting out the middleman, her scaling to Naruto (and Sasuke) is still mentioned in her justification. I don’t see any harm in directly mentioning that she’s superior to Toneri.

Yeah but the only reason we're saying that she's greater than Toneri is because she's greater than Naruto, who is greater than Toneri.

So it becomes redundant.

 

[LordTracer]

I suppose that’s fair, I’ll remove that part of her justification.

 

[LordTracer]

It’s been brought to my attention by @Wrath_Of_Itachi that Spirit Hagoromo should scale to the full yield of NaruSasu’s moon feat, since he was the one that gave them the power to do that. Kaguya is implied to be stronger than Spirit Hagoromo, so both of them should scale to 403.41 Exatons.

 

[KingTempest]

It's weird to scale Naruto and Sasuke to Hagoromo, but alright

 

[LordTracer]

They aren’t scaling to him though. Hagoromo is scaling to the full yield of their feat.

 

[KingTempest]

They aren’t scaling to him though. Hagoromo is scaling to the full yield of their feat.

But wouldn't Kaguya scale to Hagoromo's full yield, then Naruto and Sasuke scale off of Kaguya?

 

[LordTracer]

Uh no, they are definitely weaker than Kaguya, and arguably even weaker than Three-Eyed Madara, so they won’t be scaling to her. It’s only a 1.1x difference from what Hagoromo/Kaguya scale to and what NaruSasu would scale to anyways.

 

[KingTempest]

Uh no, they are definitely weaker than Kaguya, and arguably even weaker than Three-Eyed Madara, so they won’t be scaling to her. It’s only a 1.1x difference from what Hagoromo/Kaguya scale to and what NaruSasu would scale to anyways.

Makes sense. Alright then

 

[LordTracer]

So aside from some minor points, everything seems to be agreed upon. Can this be applied now, or is more input necessary?

 

[Damage3245]

So aside from some minor points, everything seems to be agreed upon. Can this be applied now, or is more input necessary?

Well, I do have to question Kinshiki and Momoshiki as well, and Hamrua has not been updated.

If Momoshiki is scaling to Naruto, and Kinshiki is scaling to Sasuke, then why are they both scaling to Toneri? How are they both scaling directly to Toneri?

 

[LordTracer]

I just forgot to remove that earlier.

 

[LordTracer]

Also I just remembered that New Era Naruto and New Era Sasuke need to have their AP justifications slightly changed to remove any scaling to their Part II selves.

 

[KingTempest]

Also I just remembered that New Era Naruto and New Era Sasuke need to have their AP justifications slightly changed to remove any scaling to their Part II selves.

They'd scale over The Last Naruto correct?

 

[LordTracer]

They'd scale over The Last Naruto correct?

Yep.

 

[KingTempest]

Yep.

Valid.
Naruto

Moon level+ with Six Paths Sage Mode (Far stronger than himself during The Last)

Idky Naruto's base is unknown. Can't we just scale him above his base in Pt 2?

 

[LordTracer]

I agree. We should, just give him an ‘At least Mountain level+, likely far higher,’ instead of an Unknown.

 

[LordTracer]

So, is everything good now?

 

[KingTempest]

A friend of mine brought up a good point.

Hamura's Tenseigan along with hundreds of Byakugan was needed to drop the moon while Toneri's was doing the same thing and let him cut the moon in half at the same time.

 

[LordTracer]

I already removed Hamura from the OP, he isn’t gonna be scaling to Toneri anymore.

 

[Avengershows]

Not staff and I'm extremely sorry for commenting on staff only but you're forgetting to include a certain simp in the thread kek

 

[Antvasima]

What are you referring to? Also, please clean up your language.

 

[KingTempest]

I already removed Hamura from the OP, he isn’t gonna be scaling to Toneri anymore.

Oh so they scale to Toneri vis SPSM NE > BSM Last. Fair.

And Kaguya scales off of the moon creation feat correct?

Not staff and I'm extremely sorry for commenting on staff only

(Next time, just ask a staff member for permission) no issues.

but you're forgetting to include a certain simp in the thread kek

Who're we forgetitng?

 

[LordTracer]

Oh so they scale to Toneri vis SPSM NE > BSM Last. Fair.

And Kaguya scales off of the moon creation feat correct?

Ye, she scales to Hagoromo, who scales to the NaruSasu moon creation.

Who're we forgetitng?

Maybe he’s referring to Code? I dunno

 

[Avengershows]

Ye, she scales to Hagoromo, who scales to the NaruSasu moon creation.

Maybe he’s referring to Code? I dunno

Oh so they scale to Toneri vis SPSM NE > BSM Last. Fair.

And Kaguya scales off of the moon creation feat correct?

(Next time, just ask a staff member for permission) no issues.

Who're we forgetitng?

What are you referring to? Also, please clean up your language.

Isshiki

 

[KingTempest]

Everybody else just scales off of Naruto and Sasuke's justifications, so we don't need to mention any Kara members.

 

[LordTracer]

So, just to recap everything:

• Part II SPSM Naruto and New Era SPSM Naruto scale above BSM Naruto from The Last, who scales to or above Toneri.
• Part II Rinnegan Sasuke and New Era Rinnegan Sasuke scale to the Naruto of their respective eras.
• Spirit Hagoromo scales to the full yield of Naruto and Sasuke’s moon creation calc, and Kaguya is implied to be superior to Hagoromo.
• Momoshiki and Kinshiki downscale from New Era Naruto and Sasuke.
• Base Naruto in The Last and New Era is ‘At least Mountain level+, likely far higher,’ due to scaling above his Part II self.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

> Base Naruto in The Last and New Era is ‘At least Mountain level+, likely far higher.