Mythology profiles in general

[ShivaShakti]

So gonna resurrect this old discussion I brought up a while ago during the whole religious profile debaucle. From what I can remember alot of people were in agreeance with removing Mythology. Gonna post this here for now to discuss that.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Agreed. A lot of them are kind of shaky and poorly made. They're also lacking in justifications a lot of the time. I noticed that when I participated in a VS thread involving Odin (Myth).

 

[GLHF22]

Arent they agree because they didnt want to add a figure from religion? Seriously you are the one who create problem with mythological profile, religious profile is strictly prohibited and very controversial, because you insisting on adding religious figure to the Wiki people choose to remove every mythological profile from the wiki rather than adding those important figures.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Arent they agree because they didnt want to add a figure from religion? Seriously you are the one who create problem with mythological profile, religious profile is strictly prohibited and very controversial, because you insisting on adding religious figure to the Wiki people choose to remove every mythological profile from the wiki rather than adding those important figures.

I mean mythological characters arent much different than religion, due to the fact they are both highly subjective and based off interpretations.

 

[Planck69]

I'm down with nuking them honestly. A lot of them are guess-work with zero justifications and are extremely poorly made.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Noice

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I have to disagree honestly. Many of the near-extinct religions such as Hellenism are moreso just aspect of what culture used to be like. They don't really have many followers (most people are in very small pockets anyway).

"Hellenism originated in and is practiced in Greece and in other countries. Leaders of the movement claimed in 2005 that there are as many as 2,000 adherents to the Hellenic tradition in Greece, with an additional 100,000 who have "some sort of interest"."

Mind you, that came from a 2005 synopsis. Hellenism is a very declining practice, so the amount has likely gone down from then. 2,000 people out of the approximate 7.8 Billion is so small that it would be ridiculous to just appeal to such a small minority. If we go by the assumption it's still roughly the same and take the approximation of current people, 1 in 3.9 million people are going to be followers of this religion. I hope you realize you are more likely to be struck by lightning in a year than to find someone who would fully worship the greek pantheon.

If we're that scared of offending such a small group (you're more likely to honestly insult an obsessive of a fictional series if I'm going to be honest), then I guess I would have to agree despite what I said. However, I feel that if some of the profiles are flat out bad, they can become candidates of deletion. Nuking every profile though? That's very unnecessary.

 

[GLHF22]

They are different, mythological character is just based off folklore while Religious figure can we found in the scripture of the respective religion, there is many credible source for religious figure and surely not a guess work or something like that.

 

[Chariot190]

Why not case by case? Nuke the bad ones, keep solid ones, fix and save the profiles that can be spruced up. Not ALL mythology profiles are bad or flimsy, mythology is a huge subject, it'd be like saying nuke all comic profiles because of a few bad ones.

 

[GLHF22]

Agree with ploz, while i don't mind to nuke them due to poorly Made, but they definitely shouldnt be banned.

 

[Planck69]

I mean, there's also the matter of profile quality and proper justification of statisitics and abilities, which is something a lot of profiles lack. And the whole subjectivity brought up by Aogiri.

If we're against nuking them entirely then I guess we can keep the good ones or something.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Keeping the good ones and sending the bad ones to the garbage dump seems like a good idea for now.

 

[ShivaShakti]

I have to disagree honestly. Many of the near-extinct religions such as Hellenism are moreso just aspect of what culture used to be like. They don't really have many followers (most people are in very small pockets anyway).
"Hellenism originated in and is practiced in Greece and in other countries. Leaders of the movement claimed in 2005 that there are as many as 2,000 adherents to the Hellenic tradition in Greece, with an additional 100,000 who have "some sort of interest"."

Mind you, that came from a 2005 synopsis. Hellenism is a very declining practice, so the amount has likely gone down from then. 2,000 people out of the approximate 7.8 Billion is so small that it would be ridiculous to just appeal to such a small minority. If we go by the assumption it's still roughly the same and take the approximation of current people, 1 in 3.9 million people are going to be followers of this religion. I hope you realize you are more likely to be struck by lightning in a year than to find someone who would fully worship the greek pantheon.

If we're that scared of offending such a small group (you're more likely to honestly insult an obsessive of a fictional series if I'm going to be honest), then I guess I would have to agree despite what I said. However, I feel that if some of the profiles are flat out bad, they can become candidates of deletion. Nuking every profile though? That's very unnecessary.

Doesnt really chang the fact Mythology is based in the same principals as religion, of being subjective and up to interpretation.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Most of them still run into the problem that we are cherry picking the most famous, often unrelated stories of the mythological figures with no actual overarching story, canon or any other indicator to say what can and cannot be taken seriously.

I don't want Myth profiles because they have no actual basis, except mostly shaky reconstruction of historians made from multiple societies that are unrelated.

The origin, personality and powers of any god is highly varying depending on what region or point of time you take.

More abstract things like death or father time are just downright cherry picking supposed attributes that people associate with them.

And then modern myths like Loch Ness monster is downright baseless on anything.

I'm against any profile where you can't point to an origin or story for. Real world profiles are objectively true, profiles of fiction can be discussed based on text, images, animation or something that can actually be looked at. Myths are either deciding what story we find can go to the composite profile.

 

[Chariot190]

>Doesnt really chang the fact Mythology is based in the same principals as religion, of being subjective and up to interpretation.

That's dishonest, you're treating like every single religion, myth or myth character is like that. Like I don't think Herc benching a house sized boulder is up to interpretation and subjective. Case by case, don't treat an entire medium and type of literature as the same.

 

[GLHF22]

Except they don't, scripture are meant to be read and understood, historical books, etc. They are an actual source for religious figure, philosophy like Dao Taiji, ain Soph etc are also a source for them.

 

[Planck69]

Doesn't Herc have multiple feats that contradict each other? Same with a lot of stories as well. Mythology also suffers from there being multiple different interpretations of the same feats, characters and even locations, with no single author or source having any more credibility than the other.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And characters that have books for them aren't really myths like that. Achilles and Ulysse have a book that has been mostly preserved and translated. Those are less myths, and instead actual stories.

Hell, they were the basis for nearly all storytelling for millenia, especially in plot structure.

However, only because Dante's divine comedy was acclaimed and spread across the world, that doesn't mean that his rapresentation of hell, purgatory and heaven (he made God three circles) are what the religion entailed or entails.

Only because the Iliad wrote God's to be a certain way, that doesn't mean that this was what people agreed on, nor does it mean that other Greek stories actually stayed consistent with this.

 

[ShivaShakti]

>Doesnt really chang the fact Mythology is based in the same principals as religion, of being subjective and up to interpretation.
That's dishonest, you're treating like every single religion, myth or myth character is like that. Like I don't think Herc benching a house sized boulder is up to interpretation and subjective. Case by case, don't treat an entire medium and type of literature as the same.

Okay then Jesus being country level because he only scales above Satan who can destroy isreal isnt up to interpretation then. God is Low 2-C via timeline shenanigans too. Mhmm.

 

[GLHF22]

I don't know you're being sarcastic or direspectful, there is a reason why we don't measure religious figure

 

[ShivaShakti]

I don't know you're being sarcastic or direspectful, there is a reason why we don't measure religious figure

Its the same reason why we shouldnt measure mythology. They are based in interpretation and subjectiveness. I could make the "Christianity has feats" arguments just like you can make the "Greek myth has feats" argument.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

By the way, I am not saying that mythological profiles can't be made. But that has to be done based on something.

If you can find a written book where they are described enough, any character can get a profile. But if you make a profile for Poseidon based on the Iliad and the Odyssey, you don't call that "Poseidon (Myth)", you call it "Poseidon (Homer)". You don't take Poseidon from those stories, and give him powers he showed in other, unrelated stories.

 

[Planck69]

Agree with Aogiri. From one source you can get 4-A, Low 2-C, 2-C, 5-B or 0 God. Same can be said for a lot of other deities and not one interpretation would have any more weight over the other. That obviously won't work when we're supposed to objectively index characters and their stats.

 

[Chariot190]

Bad examples. We don't know how Satan is gonna do that or in what way. God being low 2-C probably is legit though given how often it's said he created everything and all of existence, seems kinda straightforward. Bad example though, do you not comprehend what case by case means? I'm not saying they're all good, but they most certainly aren't all bad either. You're taking an entire form of literature and saying it's all banned because some are vague and flimsy, no offense but that's ******* stupid. For every vague subjective one a solid straight forward one exists. Using herc as an example again, he could be given a profile and have it be more or less accurate given his feats and showings all being quite straight forward. Or Achilles. You're basically arguing that we gotta ban all anime profiles because a fanime has vague feats.

 

[GLHF22]

Its the same reason why we shouldnt measure mythology. They are based in interpretation and subjectiveness. I could make the "Christianity has feats" arguments just like you can make the "Greek myth has feats" argument.

No, They don't, have you read any Scripture or historical books? They have a credible source, philosophy like Dao and ains soph, of course we would only have to follow the expert who know the religion not random people in internet, we don't measure them because its very direspectful.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Drop the bible talk, Kira.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Bad examples. We don't know how Satan is gonna do that or in what way. God being low 2-C probably is legit though given how often it's said he created everything and all of existence, seems kinda straightforward.
Bad example though, do you not comprehend what case by case means? I'm not saying they're all good, but they most certainly aren't all bad either. You're taking an entire form of literature and saying it's all banned because some are vague and flimsy, no offense but that's ******* stupid. For every vague subjective one a solid straight forward one exists. Using herc as an example again, he could be given a profile and have it be more or less accurate given his feats and showings all being quite straight forward. Or Achilles. You're basically arguing that we gotta ban all anime profiles because a fanime has vague feats.

Yeah dude youre missing my point entirely. "God being Low 2-C is probably legit"

No its not. Because religion is subjective and up to interpretation. People can think god is all knowing and all powerful and since its so subjective, they technically cant even be considered incorrect.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Drop the bible talk, Kira.

Im using the bible and popular religions as examples and comparisons for why Mythology profiles should be removed.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Again, drop it. Get another exemple that doesn't count as heresy for millions, and doesn't insult just as many.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Again, drop it. Get another exemple that doesn't count as heresy for millions, and doesn't insult just as many.

Were you not present for the original thread? This was exactly the basis against Mythology on which was argued.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And the very reason the thread was closed.

You can make an argument without offending people on porpuse. The lack of reliable sources can be pointed out without this, and I am tired of these threads being closed because of unneeded religious debates.

 

[GLHF22]

Im using the bible and popular religions as examples and comparisons for why Mythology profiles should be removed.

You know i don't care whether Mythological profile is nuked or not, but very direspectful if we actually measure religious figure and create their profile in this Wiki.

And yeah i don't believe in some random internet people interpretation regarding God but as long as they based off scripture or expert and actually citated the source its no problem at all to believe what they are saying, as for mythological character yeah they're just folklore and very hard to find a credible source for them thats why its very Subjective.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Im using the bible and popular religions as examples and comparisons for why Mythology profiles should be removed.

You know i don't care whether Mythological profile is nuked or not, but very direspectful if we actually measure religious figure and create their profile in this Wiki.
And yeah i don't believe in some random internet people interpretation regarding God but as long as they based off scripture or expert and actually citated the source its no problem at all to believe what they are saying, as for mythological character yeah they're just folklore and very hard to find a credible source for them.

Im not advocating for measurments of religious profiles. Im advocating against it. This is why im bringing the argument against mythology up. Mythologies were religions like any others. Keeping them around feels like a double standard.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Were being the point.

Now, last time I tell you, drop it.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Were being the point.
Now, last time I tell you, drop it.

Drop what exactly? This entire thread?

 

[Chariot190]

>Mythologies were religions like any others

You actually comparing Greek mythology and a few others to Christianity? Like damn dude, there's a reason why it's called mythology now and not religion.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, drop currently active religions.

Now, is there anyone that has a reason to not do what I suggested? Making separate profiles for myths that have actual, written down and verifiable stories like the Iliad, and treating them as we would treat any other profile?

 

[Planck69]

>Mythologies were religions like any others
You actually comparing Greek mythology and a few others to Christianity? Like damn dude, there's a reason why it's called mythology now and not religion.

You....do know they're correct, right? Greek Mythology was a set of beliefs with deities and such like any other religion back in the day.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes, they were. They are not, and the few older gods that have their own religions now are not treated the same way as they were.

 

[Planck69]

@Ricsi

I guess that can work. We're still nuking the guess-work profiles though.