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My Problem with Infinite Dimensional DC

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Hello, As someone of you may have known, there was another thread regarding DC comics not being infinite dimensional as found here, after looking at the thread, It really made me think over how accurate infinite D DC as, as it's generally accepted as a sort of fact across every debating site. so after digging into some of the comics, here is my conclusion, I'll throughouly explain why all the Infinite D scans don't work here

1. The Sena The Wanderer Statement

This comes from Larfleeze, issue 3, of course, I went to read the entire storyline, anddd

A quick explanation of what the Cosmic Nexus is

"The Farthest Corner of the Universe, Known to some as the Creation Point, The Cosmic Nexus where Energy Becomes Matter and Vice Versa"

"Beyond The Cosmic Membrane, On the other side of the Creation Point...I was under the impression there was no other side -- That once it impacts the point, all matter becomes energy and --
And then becomes matter again, there's a whole other universe out there, Problem is, the Laord and his family wiped that universe out"


[https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ZNsWYT-t_...mI7F8mxnzXpCCFIOFfQjHlIZxo7KsSgNkYLQHdu=s1600 "Right, So, we get our ass dragged through the Creation Point And into this stupid Universe And now they're all here... In this universe?!"]

Now, you might be asking, why am I bringing all these quotes up, well

"Once, and Eons and Eons ago, there was a dimension radiant with beauty and wonder, and Endless Expanse of abundant worlds and diverse beings"

Then while Sera is passing through the CREATION POINT (Cosmic Nexus), She says this

"Oh, Yes, I sailed through the cosmic rubble for thousands of years, and then I found the anamoly, what you call the Creation Point, The Nexus where one dimension is terminated... and another one begins"

"Vibrating through the depths of my consciousness, then, using our advanced tech, duplicated its proporties, devising a rather crude, but efficent, portal to your DIMENSION"

In conclusion, The terms Universe and Dimension are interchangeable in the storyline, hell, Sera literally uses the word dimension interchangeably with Universe in one of the scans used for High 1-B

2. The Lucifer Statement

Not much to say, other than that the scan comes from Lucifer 75, where he was in the Void , As also showin the background of the original sca , Which follows up with him meeting his father in the Void. The scan debunks itself, by the way, lol, lucifer states that there is no time and space in the Void, his statement was just referring to how perception is twisted in the Void.

3. The Rama Kushna statement

As shown in the thread by Alonik, who I personally talked to regarding this topic, Paul Jenkins denied innumerable referring to Infinite in any way , and if you try discrediting the WoG here,You should also be discrediting the Dematteis WoG regarding the Sena statement (Which is just flat out contradictory by itself)

Another thing to note here, this really won't be downgrading most if not all of the DC 1-As

Lucifer directly has a statement above the concepts of space time and Infinity shitton scale pralaya is the absence of dimensions overvoid n the source encompass and transcend all dualities fundamentally death of the endless embodies the death of all concepts Dream ventured outside of Destiny's Book which governs 1-A beings Basanos obviously scale to all that etc.

Oh, and for the statements regarding dimensions we can ACTUALLY use, after having a discussion with Alonik, we can still use the Rama statement as really high into 1-B (not literally high 1-B) or the Snowflake, 196, 833 dimensional statement.

I was planning on making a cosmology blog and including this in it, but i think its best we just get this out of the way
 
I also think that a 1-B DC multiverse seems to make better sense than High 1-B.

The entity that claimed to be spread across infinite dimensions was also less powerful than the orange lantern Larfleeze if I remember correctly, which wouldn't make any sense in conjunction.
 
However, we need more staff input. Here are some members that you should ask:

Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, KLOL506, TheC2, Sera EX, Kepekley23, Huesito88, PrinceOfTheMorning.
 
So regarding the Sena statements, I agree you can't really take her words at face value as universe and dimension are consistently used as synonyms in that Larfleeze run. Sena being described as pan-dimensional obviously isn't referring to higher spatial dimensions, or she would be Mxy level and Larfleeze is stronger than her. I also think basing the entire cosmology off a spinoff of a backup comic from the n52 to be a bit silly, but that's just me.

Lucifer one is more or less self explanatory. I don't think this will effect 1A's much.

Im cool with the Rama statement, it's just she says innumerable. I'm sure we don't ascribe an infinite rating to statements with 'countless', 'numberless', 'untold..etc. Also we seem to backtrack on whether we care about WoG or not.

The WS snowflake construct from Planetary is just an array of 196,833 universes that existed sometime in Post-Crisis after the Worldstorm/Infinite Crisis and were consolidated into one universe in 52.
 
I've discussed the last part with alonik, they directly refer to the number of universes as the same amount of atoms there are on earth in issue 1, and in issue 3 I believe, they refer to the number of universes as countless, so the term "dimensional space" here would suitably be referring to spatial dimensions, and the last part seems irrelevant either way due to hypertime
 
I would appreciate if somebody could ask the members that I mentioned earlier to comment here?
 
  • Regarding Sena: I think it's pretty clear she's talking about parallel dimensions within the story and the WoG seems contradictory to that. So I agree.
  • Regarding Lucifer: Yeah it doesn't seem like Lucifer is describing the structure of the multiverse since he's completely outside of it.
  • Regarding Rama: The definition of "innumerable" is "too many to be counted" which doesn't mean infinite, so yeah the author is correct and his WoG isn't even needed to see that.
  • Regarding the snowflake: Planetary is still on my TBR so I have no input to give
My main question is: was this the entirety of what High 1-B DC was based on for this site? For example, I know some other sites use the Sandman wave function statement to prove Infinite-D but idk about whether that's even valid here.
 
Hykuu said:
It's described as a structure of universes consistently no? The two stories wouldn't make much sense otherwise. I was refering to this scan from the DC/Plantery comic in my previous post. But I suppose you could say it's inconsistent.

I mentioned when it existed since we know the multiverse is structured different with each iteration due to retcon changes. Like for example the bleed didnt exist in PC. The snowflake spawned somtime in post crisis but no longer existed after 52. Hypertime just makes everything accesable.
 
"The Leader of the Snow's statement > Jakita's, as they're generally the ones who would know about it the most

by 52 do you mean the comic or n52 in general? because either way, Hypertime itself is makes every continuity canon,

"""People have this idea of canon, but there is no canon," he says. "To me, it's all real. Every comic you ever read is real." He cites a powerful scene in one of his comics, All-Star Superman, where the Kryptonian hero saves a suicidal girl not by catching her when she jumps, but by convincing her of her own strength and embracing her. "People have said, I didn't kill myself because I read this scene. It's actually saved real people's lives. So to me, this fake superhero, this paper creation actually stopped a kid from killing himself. This is what [Superman] exists for."" - GM

"

Hypertime is, in the words of Grant Morrison, "Take a glass sphere studded all over with holes, and then drive a long stick right through the middle of it, passing exactly through the center of the volume. That's the base DC timeline. Jab another stick through right next to it, but at a different angle, so that they're touching at one point. That's an Elseworlds story. Another stick, this one rippled, placed close in so that it touches the first stick at two or three points. That's the base Marvel timeline. Perhaps others follow the line of the DC stick for a while before diverging, a slow diagonal collision along it before peeling off. This sphere contains the timeline of all comic-book realities, and they theoretically all have access to each other. In high time, at the top of the sphere, is OUR reality, and we can look down on the totality of Hypertime, the entire volume. Hypertime is a tool for the consideration of fictional reality."Hypertime has always existed, even before the Crisis, and that the ENTIRE Multiverse occurred in just ONE DCU Hyper-Timeline. In addition, with the restoration of the original multiverse (existing outside of the current 52-Earth continuity), the single universe NEVER split, and so the Multiverse can be made to fit within Hypertime, not the other way around.

Hypertime has always existed, even before the Crisis, and that the ENTIRE Multiverse occurred in just ONE DCU Hyper-Timeline. In addition, with the restoration of the original multiverse (existing outside of the current 52-Earth continuity), the single universe NEVER split, and so the Multiverse can be made to fit within Hypertime, not the other way around."

There is also shit like this

https://books.google.se/books?id=Ih...#v=onepage&q=grant morrison hypertime&f=false

I had a scan stating hypertime made all of dc canon by grant's own words but I can't seem to find it, anyway, after Grant established the DC map every cosmology theoritcally exists till now, but if this doesn't suffice, I guess we can still use the rama statement.
 
I dont disagree with Hypertime making everthing canon, I was just stating it was in the sense that everything in DC happened at some point in hypertime. Not like the sense everything is true and happeing simultaneously. If you get what i'm saying. But yea thats my input for this, idk how we handle WoG in regards to comic verses.
 
Well I agree with the thread and with the position of Ant, 1-B would be the most sensible for DC Comics.
 
I do believe its that every point in the multiverse never actually got removed, but either way the rama statements wields higher results so I think the snowflake one isn't that useful
 
About the Hypertime has a very appropriate point here, he it affects beings of higher plans as the realms that exist in the spheres of the gods? Or is it just a condition of quantum mechanics over "many worlds" inside the Orrery of Worlds?
 
I'm guessing his view on Innumerable is the same as how we treat countless here, basing off his wording

@Alonik I believe it caps at the sphere of gods, nothing beyond it
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
Question: what exactly would innumerable yield? Too many to be counted is a pretty big area.
That depends a lot, I have already tried to ask him (Paul Jenkins) a definite number on this and did not advance anything, it is only a point of view of the etymological use of the word, unfortunately.
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
Right I get that it would be a high level of 1-B, but is it possible to define what number is "countable"?
Countable sets maybe.
 
Hykuu said:
@Alonik I believe it caps at the sphere of gods, nothing beyond it
Well, I don't really see how the Hypertime validates quotes of dimensions higher than the fourth, since it exists only for chronology of heroes within the sphere of "Earths (Universes)" in the Orrery.

I think the best to use to consider older citations about higher dimensions, is to see the consistencies they have, from moments that the higher spheres were never affected by the Hypertime.

If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.
 
I'm currently on mobile but I wish to mention there's a statement about hypertime connecting to every spatial dimension
 
Very high regular 1-Bs due to the countless / uncountable / innumerable statements and the Snowflake are fine.

1-As won't be affected anyway.
 
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