My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[Kingofwolves999]

All Might was never hit with a basic air cannon. AFO always used quirks to amp it, especially the first one, and even stated he would add more because the combination was “fun”. All Might tanked that hit with slight injuries, similar to Endeavor who was a bit beat up after taking just the unamped version.

Not to mention Shigaraki was heavily distracted at the time by wanting OFA, so he wasn’t even trying to kill Endeavor.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

All Might was never hit with a basic air cannon. AFO always used quirks to amp it, especially the first one, and even stated he would add more because the combination was “fun”. All Might tanked that hit with no injuries, as opposed to Endeavor who was a bit beat up after taking just the unamped version.

Not to mention Shigaraki was heavily distracted at the time by wanting OFA, so he wasn’t even trying to kill Endeavor.

Endeavor was literally uninjured by the basic air cannon all that happened was knockback and that happened with shigaraki when his punch sent him flying. Obviously, endeavor doesn't scale to shigaraki it's just knockback please don't use that it your arguments because it has no meaning when it comes to scaling.

AM has been knocked by Bakugou's explosions and we don't use that for scaling do we.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

He had slight bruises and scratches to indicate he took damage across his face. That’s just supporting evidence that he isn’t as strong as All Might, who takes similar injuries but from a much, MUCH stronger version of the same attack.

 

[CyborgSakumo]

He had slight bruises and scratches to indicate he took damage across his face. That’s just supporting evidence that he isn’t as strong as All Might, who takes similar injuries but from a much, MUCH stronger version of the same attack.

Bruises huh, Ok shigaraki has slight bruises from that punch endeavor threw at him, that's essentially uninjured in the world of anime. Those bruises aren't even present in some panels so it could just be dirt. And again I keep having to repeat myself with this is really annoying I'M NOT SAYING HE'S AS STRONG AS AM. I'm just saying the gap between him and weakened might isn't as monumental as we believe.

Considering this argument is getting nowhere and I keep having to repeat myself in these arguments I really don't think people are listening and reading what's being said so I'm going to take a break from this its pretty late in my timezone in least so I'm going can we leave this argument and come back with level heads.

 

[TheRustyOne]

This talk is absurd, saying Shigaraki is holding back makes no sense when he's trying to attack Aizawa or take Izuku. Endeavor was the only character who can hurt Shigaraki, the easy path to take would be one shotting Endeavor, kill Aizawa, and then he wins by taking OFA from Izuku. Shigaraki was losing this fight, he even states that himself. He needed to take out Aizawa because he couldn't beat Endeavor and the rest of them.

Shigaraki didn't become serious after getting hit by Vanishing Fist, he started going past his limits, even states he's using more power than his body can handle. The story literally states that he's going Plus Ultra, not that he's finally going all out, that he's going even further beyond his original power.

Your logic states that Shigaraki is suffering from a massive case of CIS or PIS, which makes no sense. Shigaraki never holds back on killing people, he wants to kill everybody, and even he states that he's done taking the Heroes so lightly before getting his surgery.

Please tell me why Shigaraki doesn't one shot Endeavor if he can, he doesn't because he can't. Endeavor literally states Shigaraki is as strong as All Might AFTER he was punched by him, which means Endeavor believes he can come back from being hit by Kamino All Might. (Since that's the only All Might he's seen fight all out to our knowledge) Yes he's less durable than All Might, but I believe Shigaraki is weaker than Kamino All Might as well.

Shigaraki propels himself through the air, which Endeavor compares to All Might, then after getting punched into the ground, he gets back up and says Shigaraki is a powerful and sturdy as All Might. Saying Endeavor doesn't scale because you don't believe a normal human should be as durable close to All Might doesn't matter at all.

Endeavor scales to Shigaraki's AP, which was compared to All Might BEFORE the Vanishing Fist even happened.

 

[Spinoirr]

Or shigaraki grows stronger the longer he is in his body like the nomus are explained to do?

 

[TheRustyOne]

His power was compared to All Might before the Vanishing Fist, how many times to I need to say that? Any other point is irrelevant, also no he will not become strong end of discussion. He's never been shown to be stronger.

Also it's clear you all don't know how Air Cannon works, did you forget?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

First off A I never said he was as durable as all might. I said he's Low 7-B or maybe likely Low 7-B if you want.
and

B I've had this discussion the basic air cannon that shigaraki used didn't even seem to injure Endeavor it just knocked him back. Knock back is based on physics at least in MHA when endeavor punched shigaraki it knocked him, it didn't injure him but it knocked him back.

C All might was knocked back by basic air cannons in that fight too, and he was knocked back significantly farther by the stronger ones.

D Before someone mentions the fact that Endeavor was knocked back by the giant air cannon and AM wasn't , AM was bracing for the aircannon because he was prepared and you can see him doing so. Endeavor wasn't bracing so he was knocked back but he wasn't injured.

Also im pretty sure that the base Air Canon is a 7-C attack anyway

 

[Therefir]

Also it's clear you all don't know how Air Cannon works, did you forget?

Apparently we don't, explain why Endeavor got injured by a massively weaker Air Cannon, explain why Shigaraki didn't one-shotted Gran Torino even though he later proved to be able to do it easily, explain why Endeavor got injured by the same attack that Gran Torino survived, explain why Endeavor was easily pierced by AFO's tendrils despite these ones not being strong enough to injure All Might, and explain how a normal human can reach All Might's level of durability with mere training.

>Shigaraki didn't become serious after getting hit by Vanishing Fist, he started going past his limits

I like how you always bring this up ignoring that he passed his limits simply because of the damage his body suffered. You also seem to forget that he only attacked Endeavor three times, all of them extremely casual, while mocking Endeavor and the other heroes, explaining meaningless things, and wearing a huge smile on his face.

I would like to know Damage's opinion on this.

 

[Therefir]

Also im pretty sure that the base Air Canon is a 7-C attack anyway

No, that was the amplified Air Cannon, AFO never used the basic one.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

No, that's the amplified Air Cannon, AFO never used the basic one.

Wasn’t it more like
Basic Air Canon as 7-C then Air Canon with Quirk stacking was Low 7-B because it can injure Kamino All might(Because I thought that calc of AFO blowing up some of the District with his air canon Afo wasn’t using multiple quirks just the air canon quirk)

My Hero Academia: Air Cannon

vsbattles.fandom.com

This calc even states the reason why the Air canon was only town level was because Afo was casual and wasn’t stacking Quirks on it

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Wasn’t it more like
Basic Air Canon as 7-C then Air Canon with Quirk stacking was Low 7-B because it can injure Kamino All might(Because I thought that calc of AFO blowing up some of the District with his air canon Afo wasn’t using multiple quirks just the air canon quirk)

My Hero Academia: Air Cannon

vsbattles.fandom.com

This calc even states the reason why the Air canon was only town level was because Afo was casual and wasn’t stacking Quirks on it

I thought that was redone to be 8A and that’s were Best Jeanist’s dura came from?

 

[Therefir]

Wasn’t it more like
Basic Air Canon as 7-C then Air Canon with Quirk stacking was Low 7-B because it can injure Kamino All might(Because I thought that calc of AFO blowing up some of the District with his air canon Afo wasn’t using multiple quirks just the air canon quirk)

My Hero Academia: Air Cannon

vsbattles.fandom.com

This calc even states the reason why the Air canon was only town level was because Afo was casual and wasn’t stacking Quirks on it

Because I thought it was the base one, but the only implication we have is from the anime, where he used the amplified Air Cannon.

 

[Therefir]

I thought that was redone to be 8A and that’s were Best Jeanist’s dura came from?

The feat itself is 7-C, Best Jeanist took it from a distance and got 8-A durability from it.

 

[TheRustyOne]

It doesn't matter how he's acting, you clearly don't understand the basic premise of all of this. His strength was compared to All Might before the Vanishing Fist, and after punching Endeavor. That part is fact, so why wouldn't any mention that he's strangely holding back after using All Might level power?

Shigaraki is either Low 7-B or 8-A with Low 7-B durability, he hits Endeavor after he was compared to All Might's power. We know he's weaker than Kamino All Might since the doctor straight up tells Mic that he is. Considering Endeavor saw Kamino All Might in action, that's the only case this could be. Since if he was stronger that would've caught his attention.

Air Cannon becomes more powerful depending on the physical strength of the users, as Springlike Limbs and Strength Enhancers can increase it's power. AFO without any Quirks is a normal human (To our knowledge), he's received no surgeries to make his body stronger like Shigaraki, which means Shigaraki's Base Air Cannon is far more powerful than AFO's Base Air Cannon.

Shigaraki didn't one shot Gran Torino because he was in the air, after getting punch Gran Torino's body was sent flying. The next punch was on the ground, Gran Torino can't go flying so Shigaraki's fist goes straight through him. Also Shigaraki failed to break through Ryukyu's hands, who is supposedly 8-A.

Say Shigaraki is holding back, means your saying this fight is full of CIS and PIS from Shigaraki, who's too stupid to realize he can one shot Endeavor with less than 1% of his own power.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

The feat itself is 7-C, Best Jeanist took it from a distance and got 8-A durability from it.

Ah ok.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

It doesn't matter how he's acting, you clearly don't understand the basic premise of all of this. His strength was compared to All Might before the Vanishing Fist, and after punching Endeavor. You need to explain why Shigaraki is consciously decided to make this fight harder, when he's Obsessed with getting OFA and is getting annoyed by them.

Shigaraki is either Low 7-B or 8-A with Low 7-B durability, since the attack he hit Endeavor with was compared to All Might level power. We know he's weaker than Kamino All Might since the doctor straight up tells Mic that he is. Considering Endeavor saw Kamino All Might in action, that's the only case this could be. Since if he was stronger that would've caught his attention.

Air Cannon becomes more powerful depending on the physical strength of the users, as Springlike Limbs and Strength Enhancers can increase it's power. AFO without any Quirks is a normal human (To our knowledge), he's received no surgeries to make his body stronger like Shigaraki, which means Shigaraki's Base Air Cannon is far more powerful than AFO's Base Air Cannon.

Shigaraki didn't one shot Gran Torino because he was in the air, after getting punch Gran Torino's body was sent flying. The next punch was on the ground, Gran Torino can't go flying so Shigaraki's fist goes straight through him. Also Shigaraki failed to break through Ryukyu's hands, who is supposedly 8-A.

Say Shigaraki is holding back, means your saying this fight is full of CIS and PIS from Shigaraki, who's too stupid to realize he can one shot Endeavor with less than 1% of his own power.

I’d like to point out Shigaraki not being serious is pretty clear when he
A. Chooses to launch Endeavor away rather than kill him after their scuffle at the hospital.
B. Chooses to bully him and make fun of him rather than kill him again after the Prominence Burn
C. Chooses not talk trash rather than take everything seriously at several points in the whole fight

Shigaraki is clearly messing around if even a little based on his actions and (This last bit is just theory) it’s entirely possible his way of just smacking people aside to get to Deku might be subtle AFO influence as AFO did something similar in Kamino

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

The feat itself is 7-C, Best Jeanist took it from a distance and got 8-A durability from it.

Although it is worth noting that Endeavor did take that Air Canon to the face point blank

 

[Therefir]

>It doesn't matter how he's acting, you clearly don't understand the basic premise of all of this. His strength was compared to All Might before the Vanishing Fist, and after punching Endeavor.
His strength was compared to All Might for being able to propulse in mid-air, that's honestly the weakest reason I have ever reason, I also like how the doctor immediately contradicts what Endeavor stated.

>You need to explain why Shigaraki is consciously decided to make this fight harder.
Because he was enjoying his new power, and he was having fun mocking the heroes, back to USJ All Might himself called him out for that.

>Air Cannon becomes more powerful depending on the physical strength
Literally headcanon, Air Cannon gets enhanced by those Quirks but it has nothing to do with the user's base strength.

>Shigaraki didn't one shot Gran Torino because he was in the air, after getting punch Gran Torino's body was sent flying.
Wtf not only Shigaraki was in the ground, but every other time he attacked Endeavor he was in the air, and the same attack he used against Gran Torino injured Endeavor.

>Say Shigaraki is holding back, means your saying this fight is full of CIS and PIS from Shigaraki, who's too stupid to realize he can one shot Endeavor with less than 1% of his own power.
Yes, that's why he didn't one-shotted Gran Torino.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

It doesn't matter how he's acting, you clearly don't understand the basic premise of all of this. His strength was compared to All Might before the Vanishing Fist, and after punching Endeavor. That part is fact, so why wouldn't any mention that he's strangely holding back after using All Might level power?

Shigaraki is either Low 7-B or 8-A with Low 7-B durability, he hits Endeavor after he was compared to All Might's power. We know he's weaker than Kamino All Might since the doctor straight up tells Mic that he is. Considering Endeavor saw Kamino All Might in action, that's the only case this could be. Since if he was stronger that would've caught his attention.

Air Cannon becomes more powerful depending on the physical strength of the users, as Springlike Limbs and Strength Enhancers can increase it's power. AFO without any Quirks is a normal human (To our knowledge), he's received no surgeries to make his body stronger like Shigaraki, which means Shigaraki's Base Air Cannon is far more powerful than AFO's Base Air Cannon.

Shigaraki didn't one shot Gran Torino because he was in the air, after getting punch Gran Torino's body was sent flying. The next punch was on the ground, Gran Torino can't go flying so Shigaraki's fist goes straight through him. Also Shigaraki failed to break through Ryukyu's hands, who is supposedly 8-A.

Say Shigaraki is holding back, means your saying this fight is full of CIS and PIS from Shigaraki, who's too stupid to realize he can one shot Endeavor with less than 1% of his own power.

I mean especially since Endeavor is basically the main one damaging Shigaraki until Deku starts the 100% spam
So it would be idiotic for Shigaraki to not just One Shot Endeavor already
Bakugo could barely stun him with his best attack
Torino did no damage
45% was also mainly just an annoyance for him although his blackwhip did lock him down for a bit so that’s a LS feat for Black whip worth noticing
Ryukyu Kinda just keeps getting One shot and Knocked down the entire fight although I think she tagged an off guard shigaraki at one point

 

[Therefir]

>So it would be idiotic for Shigaraki to not just One Shot Endeavor already
I mean it was also idiotic for Shigaraki to not one-shot Gran Torino knowing he could do it easily, but he didn't, Shigaraki simply was overconfident and that was clearly shown through the fight, he only was going beyond his limits simply because of the damage he took.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Let me say something else, why do we assume Shigaraki is Low 7-B in AP? Because the doctor, Endeavor, and Aizawa compared him to All Might.

"That power, it's just like..." Endeavor while flashing to All Might in his head.

"It's not quite on par with All Might, sadly! Excessive remodeling would've overburden his brain." The Doctor to Present Mic. (The Doctor's statement takes priority over all of them, since he's the one who made Shigaraki this strong, and knows All Might's strength better than anyone)

"As powerful and sturdy as All Might." Endeavor to everyone else.

"But as long as I don't blink, that power is all he's got. And I'll hold on for a good long time." Aizawa agreeing with Endeavor.

This all happens before Shigaraki stops "holding back" as you say. These statements are the only reason Shigaraki is being consider to be Low 7-B, without them he'd be 8-A with Low 7-B durability. Endeavor clearly believes he could take a hit from an All Might level opponent, and Aizawa believes they can handle that strength. Which is true since Shigaraki was losing, he couldn't win as long as Aizawa was erasing his Quirks. That's why he started out with going after Aizawa instead of finishing Endeavor off, and then later decided that he has to grab Izuku and run away.

Trying to say that during this fight, at any point, Shigaraki could've used less than 1% of his strength to one shot Endeavor is absurd. Since he has no in character reason to hold back so much against Endeavor. I do agree that he's not hitting Endeavor with 100% of his power. However, I refuse to believe that he's holding back so much that he's purposely keeping Endeavor alive for PIS.

Also isn't funny how we started off this arc with people saying Shigaraki doesn't scale to Endeavor, know we're saying Endeavor doesn't scale to Shigaraki.

 

[TheRustyOne]

>So it would be idiotic for Shigaraki to not just One Shot Endeavor already
It was also idiotic for Shigaraki to not one-shot Gran Torino, knowing he could do it easily, but he didn't, Shigaraki simply was confident.

Gran Torino isn't a threat to Shigaraki, Endeavor can KILL HIM. A big difference there.

 

[Therefir]

Gran Torino isn't a threat to Shigaraki, Endeavor can KILL HIM. A big difference there.

No there's no difference, Shigaraki literally ignored Endeavor in the same panel he ignored Gran Torino.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No there's no difference, Shigaraki literally ignored Endeavor in the same panel he ignored Gran Torino.

Yes, because he can't defeat Endeavor. Trying to fight him while Quirkless means he'll lose.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Let me say something else, why do we assume Shigaraki is Low 7-B in AP? Because the doctor, Endeavor, and Aizawa compared him to All Might.

"That power, it's just like..." Endeavor while flashing to All Might in his head.

"It's not quite on par with All Might, sadly! Excessive remodeling would've overburden his brain." The Doctor to Present Mic. (The Doctor's statement takes priority over all of them, since he's the one who made Shigaraki this strong, and knows All Might's strength better than anyone)

"As powerful and sturdy as All Might." Endeavor to everyone else.

"But as long as I don't blink, that power is all he's got. And I'll hold on for a good long time." Aizawa agreeing with Endeavor.

This all happens before Shigaraki stops "holding back" as you say. These statements are the only reason Shigaraki is being consider to be Low 7-B, without them he'd be 8-A with Low 7-B durability. Endeavor clearly believes he could take a hit from an All Might level opponent, and Aizawa believes they can handle that strength. Which is true since Shigaraki was losing, he couldn't win as long as Aizawa was erasing his Quirks. That's why he started out with going after Aizawa instead of finishing Endeavor off, and then later decided that he has to grab Izuku and run away.

Trying to say that during this fight, at any point, Shigaraki could've used less than 1% of his strength to one shot Endeavor is absurd. Since he has no in character reason to hold back so much against Endeavor. I do agree that he's not hitting Endeavor with 100% of his power. However, I refuse to believe that he's holding back so much that he's purposely keeping Endeavor alive for PIS.

Also isn't funny how we started off this arc with people saying Shigaraki doesn't scale to Endeavor, know we're saying Endeavor doesn't scale to Shigaraki.

I feel the fact That Endeavor was confident he could Take on a Enemy Comparable to Kamino All might is really important as if he was an insect to even Kamino All might he would’ve seen the battle as a lost cause and probably tried to organize a retreat instead of trying to fight him head on
So ofc I’m not trying to say Endeavor is as strong as Kamino All might he’s just not an insect compared to him either

 

[Therefir]

>"That power, it's just like..." Endeavor while flashing to All Might in his head.
He said that simply because Shigaraki propulsed himself in mid-air, something even 20% Deku can do, all while the doctor ironically corrects him.

>Endeavor clearly believes he could take a hit from an All Might level opponent.
Endeavor never experienced a punch from All Might, he is not reliable.

>I refuse to believe that he's holding back so much that he's purposely keeping Endeavor alive for PIS.
He hold back against Gran Torino enough to not kill him, what are you saying literally contradicts what happened in the manga, by your logic Gran Torino should also have Low 7-B durability because he survived the same hit that injured Endeavor.

 

[TheRustyOne]

He didn't survive the same hit that Endeavor took, he punched Gran Torino and kicked Endeavor that's two different attacks. (Grazed him, since it looks like he tried to dodge it to me but that's my opinion)

So your saying Shigaraki isn't All Might level, since he has no Low 7-B statements then. I'm fine with that as well.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

AFO and All Might have held back to less than 1% of their full power before when they were casual/didn’t want to kill someone. You’re acting like doing that is an impossibility in this verse.

Also, why don’t we just try to scale Endeavor to the 7-C air blast? If we can determine whether it was amped or not, that will surely make more sense than trying to say everyone is either AM tier or 8-A with nothing in between.

 

[TheRustyOne]

All Might holds back because he's a hero, AFO was holding back because Endeavor isn't a threat to him. He's can blitz the man and Endeavor's fire would never touch him. A zero threat, unlike with Shigaraki who almost die due to his "Holding back". Shigaraki holding back is stupid because he's doing so against a man that can kill him, since he has no defense against his fire, unlike AFO who can just blow them away before they get near him.

Ironically if Aizawa wasn't erasing his Quirks, I might be able to by that he was toying with them, since his regen and strength would mean Endeavor is no threat to him.

Why is Shigaraki Low 7-B if the statements of him being All Might level are wrong?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

AFO and All Might have held back to less than 1% of their full power before when they were casual/didn’t want to kill someone. You’re acting like doing that is an impossibility in this verse.

Also, why don’t we just try to scale Endeavor to the 7-C air blast? If we can determine whether it was amped or not, that will surely make more sense than trying to say everyone is either AM tier or 8-A with nothing in between.

You have a point especially since Endeavor Took the air canon point blank if it is possible to determine whether the air canon was amped we can scale him off there
7-C endeavor to me wouldn’t seem outrageous tbh

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

AFO and All Might have held back to less than 1% of their full power before when they were casual/didn’t want to kill someone. You’re acting like doing that is an impossibility in this verse.

Also, why don’t we just try to scale Endeavor to the 7-C air blast? If we can determine whether it was amped or not, that will surely make more sense than trying to say everyone is either AM tier or 8-A with nothing in between.

7C Endeavor seems ok but how would we determine whether AFO was using the base version?

 

[TheRustyOne]

The anime shows that he was using the amped version, since his arm enlarged.

Can someone tell why Shigaraki is Low 7-B, I seem to be missing something here.

 

[Therefir]

Shigaraki is just stupid and acted like a clown during the confrontation, that's the conclusion I got from re-reading the fight.

 

[TheRustyOne]

So Shigaraki's gotten stupid then, he lost intelligence for some reason. That's the excuse we're all going to go with?

Why is Shigaraki Low 7-B, someone explain because I'm to stupid to remember why he's being considered this strong if the statements are invalid.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Guess we can’t scale Endeavor to that then. And it doesn’t look like calcing that base air cannon would give anything worthwhile either. Hmmm.

I mean, I disagree with him being low 7-B. If he was, Deku wouldn’t have absolutely thrashed him like he was nothing, nor would 45% have taken a point blank attack from Plus Ultra Shiggy and just get angry from it.

If we do conclude that Shiggy is low 7-B though, then there are questions that need to be answered, which is why this discussion is happening.

 

[TheRustyOne]

That's because the percentages are indeed linear (In the story that is, we don't accept that since we'd have Tier 7 5%), 45% would be able to survive a hit from 100% in this case. And we know Shigaraki is weaker than 100% Izuku.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Guess we can’t scale Endeavor to that then. And it doesn’t look like calcing that base air cannon would give anything worthwhile either. Hmmm.

I mean, I disagree with him being low 7-B. If he was, Deku wouldn’t have absolutely thrashed him like he was nothing, nor would 45% have taken a point blank attack from Plus Ultra Shiggy and just get angry from it.

If we do conclude that Shiggy is low 7-B though, then there are questions that need to be answered, which is why this discussion is happening.

Although it is worth noting that when Shigaraki attacked Deku it was just a casual elbow and he doesn’t want to kill Deku he wants him incapacitated
And Deku was still spewing blood after the hit

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Although it is worth noting that when Shigaraki attacked Deku it was just a casual elbow and he doesn’t want to kill Deku he wants him incapacitated
And Deku was still spewing blood after the hit

Casual attacks from Shigaraki while toying around could seriously hurt Endeavor, so a casual attack from Shigaraki going beyond his limits (and even calling it casual is dubious since his goal was to get Deku off of him and he failed) would mean Deku has at least comparable durability to Endeavor.

That's because the percentages are indeed linear (In the story that is, we don't accept that since we'd have Tier 7 5%), 45% would be able to survive a hit from 100% in this case. And we know Shigaraki is weaker than 100% Izuku.

I know, but that doesn’t help formatting these profiles to the best of our ability. Even if the story is clearly presenting one thing, we gotta figure something out.

 

[Therefir]

Although it is worth noting that when Shigaraki attacked Deku it was just a casual elbow and he doesn’t want to kill Deku he wants him incapacitated
And Deku was still spewing blood after the hit

Shigaraki was trying to shake Deku off and failed, and Deku also survived a massive shockwave point-blank from Shigaraki when Aizawa flinched for a moment, suggesting he used some kind of Quirk.