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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

TheRustyOne said:
That's not what calc stacking means.

Izuku's speed comes from his in canon speed of being faster than sound, not because I calculated his speed to being that fast from a different scene.

Izuku's Blackwhip was moving and Lady Nagant shot it quickly.

Method 1 assumes she shot it the same time it began to leave the smoke. Method 2 assumes she fired at some unknown time after she saw his decoy move. While Method 3 is the anime version which shows she didn't fire until it was already reach the distance I measured, and it was in frozen time.

Also his Blackwhip travel speedcan be slower than his reactions and combat speed. Teactions/combat speed is generally faster than movement/travel speed. Especially in fiction where this can become absurd, since fiction can do whatever the hell it wants.

I admit the confusion of her bullet being faster than his Blackwhip. If you want I can measure the speed that it moves in the anime and use that instead? I guess it can be true that Izuku just isn't shooting Blackwhip out as fast as he can?

Since it's impossible to measure speed in the manga for obvious reasons.
Click to expand...
I really don't like the phrase "travel speed=/= combat speed" its pretty clear the gap isn't supposed to be thousands of times and it's just a bad attempt at trying to cover inconsistencies and bad scaling.
Also why would anyone scale to lady nagants sub rel feat if it is even a sub rel feat. We don't even have a confirmed distance.
 
TheRustyOne said:
8-A+ and baseline Hypersonic ratings for All Might level characters.

Low-Tiers become 9-C+, with 5% being baseline 9-B with Subsonic speed. 8% level is a little bit higher.

How does that sound?
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The dude with the Heatblast prp would be ecstatic i'd imagine
 
TheRustyOne said:
I welcome your thoughts as long as you're willing to not start trouble and be respectful to people even if they disagree with your opinion.

Why do you think they're both wrong?
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The way the size values are derived are just sooo senseless. It's hella obvious too.

So this is the way the size values are calced
1. Scale stars and stripes height to her head
2. Scale her head to that of the giant being 1000 times bigger
3. Compare the head of the air giant to the laser
4. Compare the laser to the cloud to ground distance

And then for whatever reason

5. Rather than now scaling the cloud size off the same panel we used to get cloud to ground distance we take a completely different panel and apply the same ground to cloud distance from the other panel.


You see how obvious this attempt of getting higher results is. It's also 5 steps with 5 different panels to take the values from. This makes the result extremely inconsistent. There are more panels that directly compare the crater to objects with known sizes. We see shigaraki and the nhe compared to the gap, we see stars and stripes Giant compared to the gap. You could even just completely skip trying to find ground to cloud distance by scaling the laser width to diameter of the gap. And you'd consistently get results that are at the most over 1 km.
 
Btw even if the Star clap feat gets revised we’ll still have High 6-C due to the Heroes Rising and missile calc

So I don’t see High 6-C going anywhere
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Btw even if the Star clap feat gets revised we’ll still have High 6-C due to the Heroes Rising and missile calc

So I don’t see High 6-C going anywhere
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Yeah, those feats are straight up insane no matter how you look at them.

As for the missile, it could give even higher results if I measured the width of the cloud, will take a look.
 
Hk1488 said:
Snip
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We are not trying to inflate results or anything. I suggest for you to realize we're just trying the best we can.

Of course many would like higher numbers but I am personally trying to hold back my bias as best as I can.

I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying though. What is the issue? Can you provide a panel that clearly shows your point?

How would you calculate this feat? If you don't mind I'd like to see your process.

Also what crater are you talking about? There is no crater in this feat. We also do not use five panels either. Do you know we're talking about Star and Stripe's giant clap?
 
Therefir said:
Yeah, those feats are straight up insane no matter how you look at them.

As for the missile, it could give even higher results if I measured the width of the cloud, will take a look.
Click to expand...
5df.jpg
 
TheRustyOne said:
We are not trying to inflate results or anything. I suggest for you to realize we're just trying the best we can.

Of course many would like higher numbers but I am personally trying to hold back my bias as best as I can.

I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying though. What is the issue? Can you provide a panel that clearly shows your point?

How would you calculate this feat? If you don't mind I'd like to see your process.

Also what crater are you talking about? There is no crater in this feat. We also do not use five panels either. Do you know we're talking about Star and Stripe's giant clap?
Click to expand...
My bad I accidentally said crater rather than gap lol.
I know what feat this is about. I will not get into too much detail until crts are ongoing. Basically what I am complaining about is the method used in the pixel calcs. We have seen shigaraki and the giant directly compared to the clap and the results are consistently below 1km in diameter. Also why would you calculate cloud to ground distance from the laser in the first Placer rather than directly scaling it to the diameter where the result again would be below 1km. And I don't know if I even have to explain how the "downgraded version" is a high end. Shigaraki is apparently hundred meters tall now it seems.
 
Hk1488 said:
Shigaraki is apparently hundred meters tall now it seems.
Click to expand...
Can you show the panel where Shigaraki is hundreds of meters tall? Or at least tell me what that panel is so I can find it? I do not believe that is correct.

I do not see how you get below 1 km results in diameter. We don't wait for CRTs to discuss anything, I do not want this discussion on my thread in the future.

It's much better for you to make your points here.
 
TheRustyOne said:
He would need to get rid of the Heroes Rising feat and the missile feat. Even if the feat dropped to High 7-A.

To be fair we don't know if he's going to go after those next.
Click to expand...
I'm not going after the Heroes Rising feat, but will be discussing my thoughts about the missiles feat with Therefir.

(I may have some thoughts about scaling too)
 
Deku did more damage with 100% to incomplete shigaraki than the missiles did to the Near High End slightly weaker than him, Low 6-B Prime Might Tier
 
TheRustyOne said:
Can you show the panel where Shigaraki is hundreds of meters tall? Or at least tell me what that panel is so I can find it? I do not believe that is correct.

I do not see how you get below 1 km results in diameter. We don't wait for CRTs to discuss anything, I do not want this discussion on my thread in the future.

It's much better for you to make your points here.
Click to expand...
Nah man I ain't gonna ever make these pixel calcs on mobile again. Found the weirdest app for it it's so crappy.

Method 1



Quick little explanation rusty: the app doesn't show you two values at once so I ahd to Screenshot them all individually and it also wasn't able to make diagonal lines so I had to use Pythagoras theorem to get the actual value xD

First scan is the one you used too and I am going to copy your values for this.


Laser width= 80m
80m=15pixels and10 pixels. Using Pythagoras theorem to get the actual width of the laser
Laser width= 18px


Diameter of the space between the dispersed clouds
331px and 230 px. Actual value: 403px

403/18=22,4
80m×22,4=1792m

This method scales the laser width directly to the diameter instead of comparing it to a completely different panel and figuring out another random value first.



Method 2




Shigaraki and the nomu are pretty much just a black dot so I'm gonna take 10m as a high end for them

Shigaraki and nomu:7px
Diameter of the cloud dispersion:345 and 41px=350 px

350px/7px=50

50 ×10m=500m


Method 3



Stars and stripes head: I don't know the exact value anymore so Imma use 500m

500m=35 and 102 px=100 px
Diameter=358 and 19 px=360 px

360/50=7.2

7.2×500m=3600m

To be fair the the gap is cropped in this panel. Still I used high ends on every value and rounded down/up the numbers to get the highest results possible and still ended up being way lower than even the low end. I could also prove why the low end is actually ridiculously exaggerated but I don't feel like it.
 
Hk1488 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Thank you. Apologies if I come off as rude, please don't hesitate to say so. Also I'll be speaking out of order, I'll highlight when I start talking about another Method.

There are some issue I need to explain. First off in your Second Method, the black dot you see is not the size of Shigaraki or the Nomu, it's just an effect of the clap. Unless you believe Star and Stripe crushed them into a diamond shape. Also I believe you should use the official scans which have a higher quality.

You cannot use that as if it's their size, as it lacks their shape and is clearly a special effects for Star and Stripe's clap. Shigaraki and the Nomu are not visible there and cannot be used for scaling. I hope to convince you of this fact, if you take a close look you'll see that it clearly isn't them.

You also provide no reason why we should believe that black dot is equal to them in size. Since we cannot see them after all. As such we can say they're smaller.

For your Third Method. You cannot see the full size of the hole when Star is preparing her laser, in this panel you're using. So your measurements are incorrect, that is not the diameter as the hole very clearly goes offscreen and likely by a large amount judging by the size shows here.

For your First Method. The hole you're seeing in that panel is smaller than the hole made from her clap, the reason is simple physics. Do you know what Star and Stripe did? She created a massive pressure/shock wave by having her giant clap, this wave blew away everything in the area.

When a large volume of air is dispersed, it creates a vacuum. This vacuum wants to quickly get filled with air, at a noteworthy speed around 365 meters per second, giving it more than enough time for the hole to get smaller between panels. it would take a bit more than a minute to have mostly closed the hole in the sky.

"Why wasn't the hole filled completely then"? You might ask me?

That's simple, the vacuum not only sucks air in from the sides, where the clouds reside, but also from above and below. Needless to say, pushing the clouds enough to create a vacuum would not necessarily mean that it would suck in all those clouds as they were before, since there is plenty of air to take from all directions.

The hole in the clouds is obviously bigger at first and gets much smaller as the vacuum gets filled.
 
It’s impossible for the diamond shape thing to be Shigaraki for two reasons:

1. The jets, which are much bigger than Shigaraki, are nowhere to be seen in the panel

2. If we scale the cloud-to-sea distance off of the impact if we assume the impact is Shigaraki’s height, we would only get like 30 m clouds off of sea level (which is just wrong)
 
Finding the height of the clouds from the sea in this shot, and using it here to find the size of the hole as it just happened is much more acceptable. That shot is the instant the hole happened and is obviously meant to show how big and powerful this attack is.

It's far more simple and is pretty clear cut compared to anything else. As such I still prefer this version of the calc.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Finding the height of the clouds from the sea in this shot, and using it here to find the size of the hole as it just happened is much more acceptable. That shot is the instant the hole happened and is obviously meant to show how big and powerful this attack is.

It's far more simple and is pretty clear cut compared to anything else. As such I still prefer this version of the calc.
Click to expand...
Measure the radi as conical frustrums. because there's alot of it being yeeted that arent measured, this is definitely not a bad idea and will work out amazingly
 
TheRustyOne said:
Thank you. Apologies if I come off as rude, please don't hesitate to say so. Also I'll be speaking out of order, I'll highlight when I start talking about another Method.

There are some issue I need to explain. First off in your Second Method, the black dot you see is not the size of Shigaraki or the Nomu, it's just an effect of the clap. Unless you believe Star and Stripe crushed them into a diamond shape. Also I believe you should use the official scans which have a higher quality.

You cannot use that as if it's their size, as it lacks their shape and is clearly a special effects for Star and Stripe's clap. Shigaraki and the Nomu are not visible there and cannot be used for scaling. I hope to convince you of this fact, if you take a close look you'll see that it clearly isn't them.

You also provide no reason why we should believe that black dot is equal to them in size. Since we cannot see them after all. As such we can say they're smaller.

For your Third Method. You cannot see the full size of the hole when Star is preparing her laser, in this panel you're using. So your measurements are incorrect, that is not the diameter as the hole very clearly goes offscreen and likely by a large amount judging by the size shows here.

For your First Method. The hole you're seeing in that panel is smaller than the hole made from her clap, the reason is simple physics. Do you know what Star and Stripe did? She created a massive pressure/shock wave by having her giant clap, this wave blew away everything in the area.

When a large volume of air is dispersed, it creates a vacuum. This vacuum wants to quickly get filled with air, at a noteworthy speed around 365 meters per second, giving it more than enough time for the hole to get smaller between panels. it would take a bit more than a minute to have mostly closed the hole in the sky.

"Why wasn't the hole filled completely then"? You might ask me?

That's simple, the vacuum not only sucks air in from the sides, where the clouds reside, but also from above and below. Needless to say, pushing the clouds enough to create a vacuum would not necessarily mean that it would suck in all those clouds as they were before, since there is plenty of air to take from all directions.

The hole in the clouds is obviously bigger at first and gets much smaller as the vacuum gets filled.
Click to expand...
Then why is the black dot treated as it being shigaraki in the 1 Gigatons calc? It's only him when it benefits your arguments. Clear hypocrisy. And what else is it supposed to be? Curious. It very clearly is supposed to be them its just small and impossible to Make it out. Also the jets aren't visible cause they don't have to be in every panel. Jets flying at supersonic speed can leave the panel completely given that the dispersion radius is about 250m using absolute high ends with the method. So no that's not a counter argument(would be weird too considering these jets should have been completely obliterated by the apparently large island level energy) 10m is also more than just a fair assumption too it's very generous actually.

To your second point about the third method I actually addressed that. If you actually fill out the shape into that though the results would still be much smaller than those currently used so I don't see why it would benefit your point in any way.

And lastly the argument that the clouds apparently moved 20+km in a short time span is a drastic overestimating of that effect. You are suggesting thst the void would move massive clouds at hypersonic speed for minutes without slowing down while in reality the effect would be rather minimal. "Much smaller" makes zero to no sense considering it takes air from mostly the area above and below due to simply having much more surface also being way closer to the vacuum. The effect closing the hole to be 1/10th or below is just ridiculous. Even saying it shrinked to half the distance is just a gross overestimation.


Mazdoesstuff said:
It’s impossible for the diamond shape thing to be Shigaraki for two reasons:

1. The jets, which are much bigger than Shigaraki, are nowhere to be seen in the panel

2. If we scale the cloud-to-sea distance off of the impact if we assume the impact is Shigaraki’s height, we would only get like 30 m clouds off of sea level (which is just wrong)
Click to expand...
1. Already addressed the jets

2. Wrong according to what? Is it physically impossible now for cloud to have low cloud to ground distance? Characters can reach speeds faster than speed of light but this is unrealistic?
 
TheRustyOne said:
Finding the height of the clouds from the sea in this shot, and using it here to find the size of the hole as it just happened is much more acceptable. That shot is the instant the hole happened and is obviously meant to show how big and powerful this attack is.

It's far more simple and is pretty clear cut compared to anything else. As such I still prefer this version of the calc.
Click to expand...
And the clouds couldn't have risen since then? Clear hypocrisy yet again
 
Another thing I would like to address to cloud dispersion entirely is that not every part of the cloud started from the radius. The mass is not focused there. Each part of the cliud further from the center has less of a distance to the other end
 
Hk1488 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
I refuse to debate with you if you refuse to give me the same respect I showed you.

As this only tells me you refuse to listen to others and will believe you're correct no matter what.

Your method is assuming the dot is the size of the Nomu and Shigaraki, that is the issue with your calc. However there is no question that is where they are in terms of height. Which means the height is usable. This is not me being hypocritical, it's just you refusing my own reasoning.

The KE formula being used already takes into account not all of the mass moves at the same speed and doesn't come from the center. We are not using the standard 0.5*Mass*Velocity^2 method, if we were the results would be inflated. I will not be responding to your post if this is the attitude you're going to have.

I deeply apologize if I offended you, as that is not my intention. But I rather not spread bad feelings between us, I hope you can understand.
 
Last edited:
TheRustyOne said:
I refuse to debate with you if you refuse to give me the same respect I showed you.

As this only tells me you refuse to listen to others and will believe you're correct no matter what.

Your method is assuming the dot is the size of the Nomu and Shigaraki, that is the issue with your calc. However there is no question that is where they are in terms of height. Which means the height is usable. This is not me being hypocritical, it's just you refusing my own reasoning.

The KE formula being used already takes into account not all of the mass moves at the same speed and doesn't start from the center. We are not using the standard 0.5*Mass*Velocity^2 method, if we were the results would be inflated. I will not be responding to your post if this is the attitude you're going to have.

I deeply apologize if I offended you, as that is not my intention. But I rather not spread bad feelings between us, I hope you can understand.
Click to expand...
I am not being offensive right now though nor am I insulting you. I just said your argument was hypocritical with actual evidence to it being hypocritical. If you refuse to argue against me then do so but if you fail to argue against my points with irrefutable logic then why would I consider myself in the wrong. Since the start of this debate you also were simply insisting on your point being true so how are you any better. And again I am not using shigrakis size I am using his size multiplied by 6 which is pretty generous. Even if I assumed it was 100 m in diameter or anything more than that it would still make the results incredibly lower. And it's just one method of many ways to scale this feat which are consistently a tier below the one you use.
 
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