- 4,716
- 4,230
By the way I'm voting Makima do to her many more wincons
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Muzan Vs Makima
- Thread starter OriginFox
- Start date
- 25,631
- 15,965
makima fra
you sure this isn't a stomp
- 2,990
- 2,427
- 1,802
- 2,716
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Thread Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,641
- 2,835
People seem to forget that the only reason she doesn't view Pochita as an inferior is because she idolizes him, he has the power to erase a devil's concept from existence, something that has the power to create real, meaningful change in the world.
Simply being strong or intimidating is not going to make her view herself as an inferior, the Gun Devil could kill millions in a matter of minutes and there was no indication she felt inferior to it in any capacity.
Simply being strong or intimidating is not going to make her view herself as an inferior, the Gun Devil could kill millions in a matter of minutes and there was no indication she felt inferior to it in any capacity.
- 2,990
- 2,427
That's because she can kill the gun devil and likely replicate its kills (Her Bang literally upscales from it)
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Thread Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,641
- 2,835
I don't believe Makima is capable of the same AoE and precision as the Gun Devil, who could kill every person based on birth month within a kilometer of distance as an aside to approaching Makima, no.
- 2,990
- 2,427
Yeah your rights but the fact remains she can kill it thus be superior
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Thread Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,641
- 2,835
I mean, she doesn't really kill it though, it just becomes Aki-47 and flees. Not to mention that this was only 20% of it.
- 2,990
- 2,427
It becoming the gun fiend was part of her plan to torture Denji (to disable his contract with pochita)
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Thread Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,641
- 2,835
Yeah, I'm aware. Bad argument on my part. I'm just attempting to highlight that raw strength is inconsequential to what Makima sees as inferior, it's deeper than that.
- 16,991
- 12,135
No. She needed to use the Punishment Devil to kill the Gun Devil.
Like I said it has to do with CSM, her mind hax will and can work against those with higher AP than her but due to the UES chainsaw has (Fear for devils.) that means she can't effect Four-Horsemen and Primordial Fear Devil's. Pochita is an outlier since that's someone whom she actively has feelings for.
I'll be making a CSM CRT to address these sometime tomorrow but the point being is that her mind hax isn't based on AP but rather hax resistance Potency. Her mind hax is unfortunately baseline to 2 layers, but while it's small Muzan has no such resistance to mind hax, thus Makima should win.
- 4,716
- 4,230
Would you add BFR to Makima's profile as well in that CRT?
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Thread Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,641
- 2,835
I don't know if you intended to respond to me with this because I acknowledge myself that she doesn't kill it, she could by extension through use of her power yes (tapping into contracts, like with Punishment) but she herself cannot, and I said this.
Yeah, I think I made myself rather clear that Pochita not being controlled is based on a litany of other factors and not strength related in any capacity.
Link me the thread when you do make it, thanks.
- 16,991
- 12,135
Yeah absolutely.
Luffy has BFR based on the same reason but for a shorter distance. Her BFR would be based on the distance between earth and space, basically if your range isn't high enough your basically ****** against her.
- 8,324
- 9,372
Tbh it's a bit more complex than that. Power's blood did incap her for a little while, but the reason Denji could do everything he did after that was because he considered it an act of love wich allowed him to bypass her contract with the prime minister.
- 11,586
- 11,064
I don't know if mindhax would work since Muzan's body have 6 brains. If the amount of brains is irrlevant so yeah, Makima FRA
- 16,991
- 12,135
Brain's are irrelevant.
- 1,802
- 2,716
yes, muzan's brains have no defense against makima's mind control... none of it, so makima says "bark for me" and muzan turns into a dog.
- 16,991
- 12,135
Fr; Muzan's mental stability isn't exactly what I'd consider strong. He got literal PTSD from someone who was stronger than him, with no unquie powers or abilities outside of fire-breathing, skill and sheer AP.
Makima has Muzan beats in all 3 categories there so it's another Yoriichi situation for Muzan all over again at worst. The only way Muzan can come out of this alive is by escaping via his body explosion, which is in nature an incon since Muzan specifically cannot fight back like this and runs away counting as a self BFR.
The Infinity Fortess is irrelevant as Muzan never used it in a 1v1 and even then Makima just kills all the moons inside it including Nakime, which would allow Makima to escape. Assuming that her contract wouldn't just spawn her outside of the Infinity fort.
Absorbtion isn't an option for him either, his Absorbtion isn't abstract or conceptual like Denji's and Muzan doesn't even assimilate ones existence into his own, meaning all he'd be doing is absorbing the life of a random Japanese citizen.
- 2,336
- 1,443
She can't aim her Bang twice simultaneously, let alone a thousand times. And she can't aim it across dimensions.
Muzan can literally use his standard attack to replicate the same weakness Denji exploited to one-shot Makima.
Very poor compatibility for Makima.
So not fast or destructive enough for Muzan to regenerate, split, or retaliate. It is common for strong demons to regenerate mid-attack or attack while regenerating.
Her resurrection utterly failed against Power's blood getting injected inside her. Muzan standard attack hard counters her regeneration.
We can say that Makima can regenerate from being bisected and such, but not destructive blood flowing through her blood stream. There is no contradiction or outlier here.
She needs to be convinced her opponent is inferior, hence she had to personally fight several opponents to prove it. It is easy to be convinced against baseline humans or animals, but she has no reason to believe that some mysterious non-human entity she doesn't know about is inferior to her.
Also can be resisted through willpower as shown by Power using a flashback to shrug off her control.
Still decently powerful after aging 9000 years. And if given some time to recover, such as in the Dimensional Infinity Fortress, he can undo the effect of aging.
The Angel Devil life absorption is too slow to matter.
He described Muzan as frighteningly fast, then used his precog sight to pinpoint Muzan's weakpoints, and then instantly created an entire fighting style that chops Muzan up faster than he can react with his regen-negating sword (the regular swords doesn't matter).
As long as he can regen from what Makima throws at him, he should be ok.
A BFR win condition requires not being able to return for a week. Muzan creates puppet bodies of the identities he impersonates as a past time.
He used it when it was convenient. If it was convenient enough to use in a particular situation he will use it.
She wouldn't be able to locate Nakime, who can simply teleport her away if she tries to go somewhere unwanted.
- 1,802
- 2,716
yes yes yes a lot of text, now explain how muzan resists makima's mind control.
spoiler it doesn't.
spoiler it doesn't.
- 16,991
- 12,135
Cockslap incoming.
Abstractions
Femur Breaker
VS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Administrator
Content Moderator
Thread Moderator
Human Resources
- 2,641
- 2,835
I should not have laughed at that as much as I did.
- 16,716
- 14,785
What did he mean by this.
- 16,991
- 12,135
No. Unlike Demons in Demon Slayer, even the lowest of Devils / fiends have abilities that are abstract in nature. Power's blood manipulation is based on the fear of blood, unlike Muzan's blood manipulation.
The Angel Devil was taking decades away from Aki's life-span within mere moments of contact. Secondly, I've never seen anything implying that Muzan can reverse the effects of aging within the infinity fortress.
Also per SBA this would be Muzan at his strongest meaning after the death of Nakime and the rest of the Moons meaning he doesn't even have them here.
Makima's precognition >>>>> Yoriichi's shit tier Analytical Prediction. Makima can see the future, Yoriichi doesn't and Yoriichi explicitly stomped Muzan via his usage of See-Through World (An inferior form of precognition to Makima's precognition via the Future Devil.) and his Sun-Breathing.
Again no. Muzan needs a demon near the area to activate his curse, and even then it isn't applicable to his own regenerate after being killed on the level that Makima can reproduce.
Read above.
- 16,991
- 12,135
SP, CD and so on couldn't interact with Yoshihiro back in Diamond is Unbreakable.
Yoshihiro is nothing special in terms of Intangbility in the verse, or Reimi.
- 11,586
- 11,064
Actually it was two months. Being decades doesn't even make sense since his life had already been shortened to two years because of the curse devil
- 16,716
- 14,785
They didn't ever actually attempt to interact with him though. Although, it makes sense that they didn't, given he wasn't actually there with them to interact with to begin with, they weren't in the same location (Kinda?). Atom Heart Father (The Stand ability) creates an isolated pocket space in the world of the photo that affects the real world in response to what happens in the photo, trapping the spirits of those filmed within, basically having Josuke and Jotaro become separated from the real world unable to escape as they're "in a photo" while in the actual photo Yoshiro does whatever the **** he wants because he has total dominion over it.
Plat and CD, even if they tried to interact with him, wouldn't be able to because they're not even in the same world, the Stands would come out in the "Real world", but in the photo, it'd still just be Jotaro and Josuke looking at the camera.
Plus, in that exact same scene, it's said that interacting with Yoshiro (a ghost), and ghosts in general such as reimi, is something a Stand can do. Killer Queen also "killed" Yoshiro with an explosion as well later on in the part. Stands can interact with Yoshiro just fine.
Yeah, and they can interact with them?
Like what are ya going on about my dude
- 2,336
- 1,443
The fact that she wouldn't know whether a new species with demonic aura is inferior to her.
Plus being connected to many minds granting you resistance to mental attacks in Chainsaw Man:
Furthermore, the fact the Power managed to have enough mental strength to break through the mindhax using a flashback:
And Makima often preferring not to use her mindhax to begin with (or it has requirements not fulfilled against the Yakuza):
Plenty of opportunity for Muzan to land a one-shot regen neg on Makima with his standard attack.
She wasn't defeated through conceptual shenanigans. She was defeated by blood attacking her body on the inside.
Per Makima's profile:
Weaknesses: Lingering sources of damage (such as Power's blood manipulation) can impede her regeneration, leaving her temporarily vulnerable.
And she was vulnerable enough to be slowly consumed through many days.
Actually he took like 2 months from a contact.
Wouldn't even make a dent.
Undoing the aging is passive, he just needs some time which can be done in a hiding spot like the Dimensional Infinity Fortress.
Muzan was heavily nerfed after the death of Nakime. He wasn't at his strongest.
I didn't know the Future Devil is residing in Makima's eye. Oh, are you talking about shoving her head into the Future Devil, and getting some cryptic BS?
Also, the Transparent World is superior to Tanjiro's traditional precog.
Sorry, canon databook lore.
Muzan can kill her much more effectively. She would struggle immensely with the split and the teleport.
- 1,802
- 2,716
as i already said... the fight would not even start because muzan would already be a slave of makima when he would be controlled...
could he break free?...no lol.
santa claus is literally connected to the whole world, he is not "several" minded, he is something that is an absurd rank... that muzan doesn't even have.
even so any of these cases are just examples of mental resistance for these characters.
ignoring the fact that his profile doesn't list any mental resistance... he has absolutely nothing that would make makima not see him as inferior to him, and for some reason muzan just goes through the first step which is mind control.
he has no answer to being sent into space and somehow come back to earth giving makima the victory by BFR.
he has no answer against the curse demon.
makima will always be one step ahead thanks to the demon of the future.
He will lose years of constant life to the demon angel and it doesn't help that makima will constantly be one step ahead of him.
could he break free?...no lol.
santa claus is literally connected to the whole world, he is not "several" minded, he is something that is an absurd rank... that muzan doesn't even have.
even so any of these cases are just examples of mental resistance for these characters.
ignoring the fact that his profile doesn't list any mental resistance... he has absolutely nothing that would make makima not see him as inferior to him, and for some reason muzan just goes through the first step which is mind control.
he has no answer to being sent into space and somehow come back to earth giving makima the victory by BFR.
he has no answer against the curse demon.
makima will always be one step ahead thanks to the demon of the future.
He will lose years of constant life to the demon angel and it doesn't help that makima will constantly be one step ahead of him.
Last edited:
- 16,991
- 12,135
My guy replied with all I needed to reply with. 
- 16,651
- 11,042
makima summons cosmos devil and win
- 2,336
- 1,443
So she doesn't require an idea who she is talking to, nor does she need to want to use her ability, nor does she need to do anything to use it?
Muzan is telepathically connected to every single demon in the series minus a handful. the Demon Slayer Corps number in the hundreds, and they are spread thin and outnumbered.
Already provided.
Splitting himself (which he can do into thousands of pieces going into different directions so he can regenerate a new body), or using the Biwa Demon's teleport, or landing a counter hit at Makima.
Requires being stabbed multiple times with a sword/nail. Muzan needs to stab Makima once to incap her.
Gives a cryptic vision of the future and not usable in battle.
Needs to be constantly touched, and the amount spent is meaningless since Muzan survived aging +9000 years.
- 16,651
- 11,042
cosmos can affect the mind of people around all the world cuz its literally all the informations of the universe, even the mind of 8 billion ppl can't handle it
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/29295/070.0/compressed/s007.jpg
- 16,991
- 12,135
Muzan's Demon's are nothing in terms of numbers. For instance the only reason why Alucard vs Makima was incon was because Alucard's number advantage + his absorption (Soon to be conceptual but even without it, Alucard's linked numbers are much greater than Muzan's.) only let him incon Makima (Pre conceptual absorption.)
Basically if Muzan doesn't have conceptual absorption or absorption that allows him to absorb all the citizens of Japan then all of his hax is irrelevant. Similarly to Alucard the thing she's effected by (Without NLF.) will be sacrificed as a proxy if Muzan does manage to kill Makima.
Muzan doesn't have Conceptual / abstract Absorbtion unlike Denji and Alucard.
Basically if Muzan doesn't have conceptual absorption or absorption that allows him to absorb all the citizens of Japan then all of his hax is irrelevant. Similarly to Alucard the thing she's effected by (Without NLF.) will be sacrificed as a proxy if Muzan does manage to kill Makima.
Muzan doesn't have Conceptual / abstract Absorbtion unlike Denji and Alucard.
- 25,631
- 15,965
Man I wish I was omniscient and knew everything.
anyway are you sure this isn’t a stomp guys, cause if it is one we need to close this.
