Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread

[Digital_Franz]

Laplace may have statistics reduction or status effect inducement through his demon eye, since it slowed Ruijerd's movements.

Yeah, last ability in Demon God key.

He also has another demon eye that lets him track people, so that would probably count as clairvoyance or simply just extrasensory perception

I mean yeah but I don't have the scan about that rn.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

All right guys. After 2 years, here you go.

Not all the calculations have been done yet, and those that have been done haven’t been evaluated, so the ratings are just provisional (Low 6-B could go down to High 6-C and 6-A could go up to High 6-A somehow).

I look forward to your feedback, and if anyone can also help with the terminology, they’re more than welcome (it’s not really my thing).

NOTE: Don’t pay any attention to that bum (Hitogami); I’m not planning on finishing his profile any time soon, and Tier 2 will have to wait for another time.

Hello again, how are you all? Looking at these profiles, I can't say I agree with much of what's posted.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Hello again, how are you all? Looking at these profiles, I can't say I agree with much of what's posted.

Hello. Well I'm doing fine, for now. And you? May I know why you don't agree?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Hello. Well I'm doing fine, for now. And you? May I know why you don't agree?

I'm glad. Me, well, generally speaking.

As for the profiles, I've only glanced at a couple, so a full review will take some time. I'll tell you the one that has definitely caught my attention the most:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Digital_Franz/Elinalise_Dragonroad(Light_Novel)

"Island level (Comparable to the Superd warriors and Atofe’s guards[4][11])"

When I did the scaling, it became clear that Elinalise is comparable to a Class B monster.

"Eris LN6 = ~20 GIG TNT -> Close to Saint
Roxy Magic = 11.5 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire (x0.5) = 5.75 GIG TNT
Class A Monster
Cliff Magic
Paul
7th Year Student Magic

Gyes >= Advanced Level = Eris = Soldat = New Guardian Knight = Conrad Magic = Silphiette Magic = Strong Bandit = Linia Magic = Pursena Magic = Leno Magic = 5th Year Student Magic

Class B Monster = Elinalise
Class "C Monster"

Therefore, there's no real justification for it being Island, since that corresponds to Saint level, far superior to the maximum Elinalise scales to. If she scales because of the Superds, it only means those Superds aren't that strong. It's the Superds who scale with Elinalise, not the other way.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Digital_Franz/Red_Hood_Cobra(Light_Novel)

"Attack Potency: Multi-City Block level+ (Comparable to Eris)"

Red Hood Cobra is superior to an advanced level like Eris. She requires a lot of effort/boost/assistance to even damage it. And as we've established, monsters of this level are far superior to Elinalise, and Eris from volume 3 was already an advanced level, also superior to Elinalise.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I'm glad. Me, well, generally speaking.

As for the profiles, I've only glanced at a couple, so a full review will take some time. I'll tell you the one that has definitely caught my attention the most:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Digital_Franz/Elinalise_Dragonroad(Light_Novel)

"Island level (Comparable to the Superd warriors and Atofe’s guards[4][11])"

When I did the scaling, it became clear that Elinalise is comparable to a Class B monster.

"Eris LN6 = ~20 GIG TNT -> Close to Saint
Roxy Magic = 11.5 GIG TNT
Roxy Staff Fire (x0.5) = 5.75 GIG TNT
Class A Monster
Cliff Magic
Paul
7th Year Student Magic

Gyes >= Advanced Level = Eris = Soldat = New Guardian Knight = Conrad Magic = Silphiette Magic = Strong Bandit = Linia Magic = Pursena Magic = Leno Magic = 5th Year Student Magic

Class B Monster = Elinalise
Class "C Monster"

Therefore, there's no real justification for it being Island, since that corresponds to Saint level, far superior to the maximum Elinalise scales to. If she scales because of the Superds, it only means those Superds aren't that strong. It's the Superds who scale with Elinalise, not the other way.

I mean Vol 11-12 Elinalise I do agree with that but Is there any reason to think that she hasn’t become stronger? She was actually able to hold her own against Atofe’s guards in Vol 14, who are Saint to King tier.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Digital_Franz/Red_Hood_Cobra(Light_Novel)

"Attack Potency: Multi-City Block level+ (Comparable to Eris)"

Red Hood Cobra is superior to an advanced level like Eris. She requires a lot of effort/boost/assistance to even damage it. And as we've established, monsters of this level are far superior to Elinalise, and Eris from volume 3 was already an advanced level, also superior to Elinalise.

I mean he wouldn't upscale that much but aight.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I mean Vol 11-12 Elinalise I do agree with that but Is there any reason to think that she hasn’t become stronger? She was actually able to hold her own against Atofe’s guards in Vol 14, who are Saint to King tier.

I mean he wouldn't upscale that much but aight.

"I mean Vol 11-12 Elinalise I do agree with that but Is there any reason to think that she hasn’t become stronger? She was actually able to hold her own against Atofe’s guards in Vol 14, who are Saint to King tier."

The Saint to King tier characters related to Atofe are mentioned in Volume 22 and are specific characters with names. We can't assume that all the guards are at that level, much less that Elinalise scales up just from having a brief encounter with them in Volume 14.

Furthermore, if we decide that they are at that level, we would be talking about a clear case of an outler, since Elinalise would go from being far below an advanced level to being superior to an average Saint. Basically, we would be saying that in approximately one year of the story, Elinalise becomes thousands of times more powerful.

"I mean he wouldn't upscale that much but aight."

Here, it would simply be stating that it is superior to Eris.

The problem is the scaling with Elinalise.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The Saint to King tier characters related to Atofe are mentioned in Volume 22 and are specific characters with names. We can't assume that all the guards are at that level, much less that Elinalise scales up just from having a brief encounter with them in Volume 14.

I mean being mentioned in Volume 22 wouldn't prevent them from being present in Volume 14?

Furthermore, if we decide that they are at that level, we would be talking about a clear case of an outler, since Elinalise would go from being far below an advanced level to being superior to an average Saint. Basically, we would be saying that in approximately one year of the story, Elinalise becomes thousands of times more powerful.

Not really? She's been stuck at that level for a very long time, just like Paul she may have reached it quickly because she had the potential to do so. And Elinalise isn't really "far below an advanced", she just lacks attack power but in defense she's strong, and in Vol 11 she didn't really struggle against monsters, she just got poisoned when she dropped her guard. As a rule of thumb those who can use Battle Aura are auto 8-A and advanced-tier in stats, so I can always put her there.

Here, it would simply be stating that it is superior to Eris.

Sure.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

I mean being mentioned in Volume 22 wouldn't prevent them from being present in Volume 14?

Not really? She's been stuck at that level for a very long time, just like Paul she may have reached it quickly because she had the potential to do so. And Elinalise isn't really "far below an advanced", she just lacks attack power but in defense she's strong, and in Vol 11 she didn't really struggle against monsters, she just got poisoned when she dropped her guard. As a rule of thumb those who can use Battle Aura a auto 8-A and advanced-tier in stats, so I can always put her there.

Sure

"I mean being mentioned in Volume 22 wouldn't prevent them from being present in Volume 14?"

No, but we cannot assume that X specific Atofe staff member character is the one who Elinalise briefly clashed with.

"Not really? She's been stuck at that level for a very long time, just like Paul she may have reached it quickly because she had the potential to do so. And Elinalise isn't really "far below an advanced", she just lacks attack power but in defense she's strong, and in Vol 11 she didn't really struggle against monsters, she just got poisoned when she dropped her guard. As a rule of thumb those who can use Battle Aura a auto 8-A and advanced-tier in stats, so I can always put her there."

Elinalise has a magic sword and a magic shield, which could not even be at the level of an advanced one. Obviously, neither the sword nor the shield have become stronger.

If you had trouble with the monsters, the battle against the griffin is the best example of Elinalise's level, since there really isn't any other battle that truly showcases her abilities. At that moment, she wasn't affected by any status ailments or anything. She's simply at that level.

It's as simple as this: Elinalise doesn't reach the advanced level. She's far superior to intermediate characters, but she doesn't reach advanced. The power gap between an advanced and an intermediate character is enormous.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Elinalise has a magic sword and a magic shield, which could not even be at the level of an advanced one. Obviously, neither the sword nor the shield have become stronger.

Where do you that her shield isn’t at that level? And you realise that the shield deflected the Hydra’s heads? It was Badigadi who destroyed the shield later on when she tried to deflect his blow.

If you had trouble with the monsters, the battle against the griffin is the best example of Elinalise's level, since there really isn't any other battle that truly showcases her abilities. At that moment, she wasn't affected by any status ailments or anything. She's simply at that level.

Well, the Gryphon is a flying monster, which limits the places where she could attack it, leaving her only able to target its legs; and, as is the problem with any tank, she lacks attack power.

It's as simple as this: Elinalise doesn't reach the advanced level. She's far superior to intermediate characters, but she doesn't reach advanced. The power gap between an advanced and an intermediate character is enormous.

I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree with this. In Volume 26, Rudeus says that she is one of the most powerful adventurers, who are at the very least Advanced-tier and some are Saint-tier.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Where do you that her shield isn’t at that level? And you realise that the shield deflected the Hydra’s heads? It was Badigadi who destroyed the shield later on when she tried to deflect his blow.

If you want to go down that line of reasoning, then we could conclude that her shield, and only her shield, is of King or high Saint level, because it can block the Hydra's attacks. But that would only apply to her shield.

Well, the Gryphon is a flying monster, which limits the places where she could attack it, leaving her only able to target its legs; and, as is the problem with any tank, she lacks attack power.

She also had trouble with the Scorpion. We don't need to be so complicated. An advanced swordsman like Eris from Volume 3 can easily cut through Class B monsters. Elinalise can´t do the same.

I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree with this. In Volume 26, Rudeus says that she is one of the most powerful adventurers, who are at the very least Advanced-tier and some are Saint-tier.

Nothing says that a strong adventurer must be Advanced-tier. That's an assumption. And with this scaling logic, we shouldn't put her in Advanced-tier, but Saint-tier, or even higher. Which is nonsensical and inconsistent with the rest of the characters and the story. The arguments "she's too strong to be an adventurer" or "the entire Atofe guard is at least Saint-tier and she defended herself against them" are weak arguments since there's no specific character to compare her to.

And again, she could be far superior to an Intermediate-tier, which she is; she could easily be up to 10 times stronger than an Intermediate-tier adventurer and still be below an Advanced-tier, and even then she would fall within the category of strong adventurers.

There's no evidence of advanced-level adventurers in the series beyond Paul, Eris, or Soldat. And you're suggesting that Elinalise has to scale much higher than those three.

 

[Digital_Franz]

She also had trouble with the Scorpion. We don't need to be so complicated. An advanced swordsman like Eris from Volume 3 can easily cut through Class B monsters. Elinalise can´t do the same.

Again, she's a tank. She def can't have the same attack power as those of the same level. That's the entire thing with tanks in medias.

Nothing says that a strong adventurer must be Advanced-tier.

"Strongest", not just strong. An adventurer isn’t going to be among the most powerful when there are loads of Advanced and Saint-tier.

That's an assumption. And with this scaling logic, we shouldn't put her in Advanced-tier, but Saint-tier, or even higher.

Uh that's why I put her at Saint-tier tho.

Which is nonsensical and inconsistent with the rest of the characters and the story.

I don't see what's inconsistent with the characters and the story here as this isn't Vol 11 Elinalise I'm talking about, but Vol 26. Her profile isn't just about Vol 1-11, it's up to Vol 26, so her progression wouldn't be inconsistent in the slightest with the story.

The arguments "she's too strong to be an adventurer" or "the entire Atofe guard is at least Saint-tier and she defended herself against them" are weak arguments since there's no specific character to compare her to.

I never said “she’s too strong to be an adventurer”, tho. The latter, yes, not the former but anyway. And the point about the superds warriors also reinforces the fact that she's at least, unless you’re saying that those who were/are said to be incredibly strong warriors – having formed Laplace’s elite squad – aren’t even Advanced-tier.

And again, she could be far superior to an Intermediate-tier, which she is; she could easily be up to 10 times stronger than an Intermediate-tier adventurer and still be below an Advanced-tier adventurer, and even then she would fall within the category of strong adventurers.

Category of strong, yes among the strongest? I doubt.

There's no evidence of advanced-level adventurers in the series beyond Paul, Eris, or Soldat. And you're suggesting that Elinalise has to climb much higher than those three.

In Volume 1, there is mention of adventurers at the Advanced and Saint tier or higher, and Alec himself is an SS-level adventurer. And what prevents her from becoming stronger than them?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

Again, she's a tank. She def can't have the same attack power as those of the same level. That's the entire thing with tanks in medias.

Being a tank doesn't necessarily mean having much higher AP/Durability. It's simply a role within the party. And as I said, it would be thanks to her shield,

"Strongest", not just strong. An adventurer isn’t going to be among the most powerful when there are loads of Advanced and Saint-tier.

There is not much advanced or saint level that has been presented to us in history.

Uh that's why I put her at Saint-tier tho.

Which contradicts the entire scaling. Remember that Eris, barely starting out as an adventurer and at an advanced level, is much stronger than Elinalise, who has decades of adventure experience.

I don't see what's inconsistent with the characters and the story here as this isn't Vol 11 Elinalise I'm talking about, but Vol 26. Her profile isn't just about Vol 1-11, it's up to Vol 26, so her progression wouldn't be inconsistent in the slightest with the story.

Then you should create two separate Elinalise profiles to better clarify the scale. And in any case, as I said, the Elinalise of Volume 26 isn't very different from the one in Volume 12. Her weapons don't increase in power, she's never explicitly shown to be improving her power, etc. The only things to go on are the mention that she's strong and a brief encounter with Atofe guards whose level we don't know.

I never said “she’s too strong to be an adventurer”, tho. The latter, yes, not the former but anyway. And the point about the superds warriors also reinforces the fact that she's at least, unless you’re saying that those who were/are said to be incredibly strong warriors – having formed Laplace’s elite squad – aren’t even Advanced-tier.

No. I'm saying that of the adventurers Rudeus has met, Elinalise could very well be below Advanced-tier and still be considered strong. I'd even venture to say she'd be in the top 10, since we don't know that many adventurers.

Category of strong, yes among the strongest? I doubt.

Elinalise is strong, no one doubts that. I'm just saying she doesn't scales at an advanced level, much less a saint.

In Volume 1, there is mention of adventurers at the Advanced and Saint tier or higher, and Alec himself is an SS-level adventurer. And what prevents her from becoming stronger than them?

There is no way you can escalate Elinalise to Alec.

What avendures we know at advanced level?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Being a tank doesn't necessarily mean having much higher AP/Durability. It's simply a role within the party. And as I said, it would be thanks to her shield,

All in defense, close to nothing in attack.

There is not much advanced or saint level that has been presented to us in history.

Not much presented in the story but they sure were there. I don't think many Emperor-tier characters have been presented in the series, have they? Yet there are plenty of them.

Then you should create two separate Elinalise profiles to better clarify the scale.

Unnecessary. Her profile covers the entire novel, and the references clearly indicate the volumes.

And in any case, as I said, the Elinalise of Volume 26 isn't very different from the one in Volume 12. Her weapons don't increase in power, she's never explicitly shown to be improving her power, etc.

Weapons do not have any specific power. Her sword is simply used to create slashes to cut from a distance; nothing more. In close combat, she simply enhances the sword with her battle aura. Although Elinalise is somewhat weak in close combat – not only because of her lack of offensive power but also because of her estoc – when she changed her equipment, she easily defeated an A-rank monster.

Having said all that, the Devouring Devil itself wasn’t all that strong. It was quick, with powerful-looking attacks, but it had low defenses and didn’t put up much of a fight. I was a bit surprised when it first made its appearance, but after batting it off the wall, Elinalise dove in with her new weapon and the fight ended without incident.

The only things to go on are the mention that she's strong and a brief encounter with Atofe guards whose level we don't know.

It looks quite promising to me.

No. I'm saying that of the adventurers Rudeus has met, Elinalise could very well be below Advanced-tier and still be considered strong. I'd even venture to say she'd be in the top 10, since we don't know that many adventurers.

He met many adventurers whilst on his missions for Orsted, and, well, there are the adventurers from Counter Arrow who could kill rank A monsters, such as snow drakes, and most adventurers don’t even consider them particularly dangerous.

Snow Drakes were powerful creatures, and you usually found them in packs, so they were considered S-ranked threats in combat. But they hated bright light, which meant they didn’t venture aboveground very often. Plus, they were relatively docile, rarely attacking anyone unless their nests were threatened. All in all, most adventurers didn’t think of them as especially dangerous. They were maybe an advanced A-ranked monster, at worst. (Vol 7)

While I'm on the topic.

She also had trouble with the Scorpion. We don't need to be so complicated. An advanced swordsman like Eris from Volume 3 can easily cut through Class B monsters. Elinalise can´t do the same.

Eris isn't the average Advanced. At that point she can already damage a rank A monster.

It’s important to note that it depends on the monsters and their locations. Some monsters are naturally tougher because of their scales or carapace. In Volume 12, even Paul couldn’t cut through a Rank B monster that was incredibly tough in a single strike. And the Begarrith continent and Demon continent have the strongest monsters.

Iron Crawlers were so tough that even Paul couldn’t defeat them in a single strike. That was where I came in. I could release two types of magic at the same time to strike the Death Road Tarantulas in the rear with my Blizzard Storm, then defeat the Iron Crawlers one by one with my Stone Cannon as Paul and Elinalise kept them preoccupied. Apparently, the Crawlers were tough enough to repel a normal Stone Cannon, but I didn’t experience any problems in that regard, as my cannons went right through them. (Vol 12)

There is no way you can escalate Elinalise to Alec.

Never happening even in my dreams. Just saying that Alec is an adventurer too. That "them" in my question was about Vol 3 Eris, Vol 5 Paul and Soldat.

What avendures we know at advanced level?

Don't know much, probably people like Suzane, Sara, who can handle rank A monsters just fine. And they're below Elinalise.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

All in defense, close to nothing in attack.

Mushoku Tensei is not an RPG where you can distribute attributes xd.

Not much presented in the story but they sure were there. I don't think many Emperor-tier characters have been presented in the series, have they? Yet there are plenty of them.

There aren't that many emperor-level characters either. The problem is that you're trying to elevate a character based on beliefs, not evidence. There's nothing to indicate that there are many adventurers at that level. We simply don't have any proof of that.

Unnecessary. Her profile covers the entire novel, and the references clearly indicate the volumes.

In the event that a distinction is ultimately made, I would see it as necessary, since there is a great disparity in level in what we are arguing.

Weapons do not have any specific power. Her sword is simply used to create slashes to cut from a distance; nothing more. In close combat, she simply enhances the sword with her battle aura. Although Elinalise is somewhat weak in close combat – not only because of her lack of offensive power but also because of her estoc – when she changed her equipment, she easily defeated an A-rank monster.

When did she defeat an A-rank monster?

It looks quite promising to me.

Again, there is no proof of the level of those guards.

He met many adventurers whilst on his missions for Orsted, and, well, there are the adventurers from Counter Arrow who could kill rank A monsters, such as snow drakes, and most adventurers don’t even consider them particularly dangerous.

Counter Arrow adventurers couldn't kill A-Rank adventurers. Paul couldn't kill an A-Class monster.

While I'm on the topic.

I didn't remember this. I'll have to look up Paul's quote when I can. I'm sure they mean pack and not individually.

Eris isn't the average Advanced. At that point she can already damage a rank A monster.

No, she can't.

It’s important to note that it depends on the monsters and their locations. Some monsters are naturally tougher because of their scales or carapace. In Volume 12, even Paul couldn’t cut through a Rank B monster that was incredibly tough in a single strike. And the Begarrith continent and Demon continent have the strongest monsters.

It's mentioned that Paul can't handle level A monsters. I don't remember about level B.

Never happening even in my dreams. Just saying that Alec is an adventurer too. That "them" in my question was about Vol 3 Eris, Vol 5 Paul and Soldat.

But we cannot base the scale on exceptions. Paul, Eris and Soldat are above Elinalise and they are advanced.

Don't know much, probably people like Suzane, Sara, who can handle rank A monsters just fine. And they're below Elinalise.

I again believe this is a package deal, since they couldn't handle other, weaker monsters.

 

[Narutouchiha95]

To add a little more:

volume 3 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 12:

.- Anacondas and Executors are B rank monsters
.- Snake monsters are 3 meters long: What a mess. I hope we can take images from the manga/anime for the size.
.- The red cobra is 10 meters long: Without a doubt the authors in all the LN have no idea about the size of the snakes.
.- The red cobra is resistant to fire magic and has hard scales
.- Th red cobra is a A-rank monster
.- A rank A monster can destroy a group of rank B in moments
.- Ruijerd can easily defeat the red cobra
.- Eris cannot completely cut the red cobra
.- The red cobra capable of dodging Rudeus' spells
.- B rank monster can dodge a little Rudeus´ spells

volume 4 of Mushoku Tensei:

Roxy Side Story

.- Elinalise can cut three meters away with her magic weapon
.- Elinalise's shield is a magical object that mitigates any attack received
.- Talhand very slow compared to Roxy
.- Roxy partially destroys the inn with an ice shot

volume 5 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 4:

.- Ruijerd knows how to speak 3 languages
.- It is implied that Paul cannot against a Class A Monster alone
.- Paul would not survive the demon continent alone
.- It is mentioned again that Ghislaine could lose against Rudeus from enough distance
.- Kalman II defeated an Emperor in his first real battle

 

[Digital_Franz]

Mushoku Tensei is not an RPG where you can distribute attributes xd.

If you say so.

There aren't that many emperor-level characters either.

I mean from what was said there are some Water Emperor but crazy Isolde is the only one we knew.

The problem is that you're trying to elevate a character based on beliefs, not evidence. There's nothing to indicate that there are many adventurers at that level. We simply don't have any proof of that.

Hmm.

In the event that a distinction is ultimately made, I would see it as necessary, since there is a great disparity in level in what we are arguing.

By that same logic Rudeus should get like 2 more keys for the sake of distinction.

When did she defeat an A-rank monster?

Teleportation Labyrinth. I sent the scan.

Having said all that, the Devouring Devil itself wasn’t all that strong. It was quick, with powerful-looking attacks, but it had low defenses and didn’t put up much of a fight. I was a bit surprised when it first made its appearance, but after batting it off the wall, Elinalise dove in with her new weapon and the fight ended without incident.

Counter Arrow adventurers couldn't kill A-Rank adventurers.

They all could damage snow drakes, but killing one alone they couldn't.

Paul couldn't kill an A-Class monster.

I mean Advanced Paul yeah.

I didn't remember this. I'll have to look up Paul's quote when I can. I'm sure they mean pack and not individually.

They are A-rank individually.
Ranking of the monsters in the Teleportation Labyrinth:

Iron Crawler: A tank-like caterpillar. Heavy and tough. B-rank.
Mud Skull: A human-shaped monster covered in mud. It had a skull buried within its center that was its weak spot. A-rank. It looked pretty ridiculous, but it was intelligent and could use magic to sling mud at you.
Armored Warrior: A rusty suit of armor with four arms, each carrying a razor-sharp blade in hand. A-rank.
Devouring Devil: A beast with long arms and legs, as well as knife-like claws and fangs. A-rank.

“Should come as no great surprise, but these A-rank monsters don’t go down easily,” he commented, though our total battle time had lasted only a minute. We hadn’t taken them down with a single blow, but it hadn’t been a tough fight. Just what you’d expect from a man who had achieved Advanced tier in all three schools of swordsmanship. Ability-wise, he likely he had it in him to reach Saint tier.
No—if anything, Paul might already be as strong as any Saint-tier swordsman. People’s strength couldn’t be measured by rank alone. (Vol 12)

No, she can't.

She quite literally damaged the Red-Hood cobra?

It's mentioned that Paul can't handle level A monsters. I don't remember about level B.

Advanced Paul yeah. Vol 12 Paul handles them just fine.

But we cannot base the scale on exceptions. Paul, Eris and Soldat are above Elinalise and they are advanced.

Again, you're talking about Vol 12 Elinalise, and I agree she's below Vol 5 Paul but that isn't the case later.

I again believe this is a package deal, since they couldn't handle other, weaker monsters.

Snow Drakes are S-rank in packs.

Snow Drakes were powerful creatures, and you usually found them in packs, so they were considered S-ranked threats in combat. (Vol 7)

To add a little more:

volume 3 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 12:

.- Anacondas and Executors are B rank monsters
.- Snake monsters are 3 meters long: What a mess. I hope we can take images from the manga/anime for the size.
.- The red cobra is 10 meters long: Without a doubt the authors in all the LN have no idea about the size of the snakes.
.- The red cobra is resistant to fire magic and has hard scales
.- Th red cobra is a A-rank monster
.- A rank A monster can destroy a group of rank B in moments
.- Ruijerd can easily defeat the red cobra
.- Eris cannot completely cut the red cobra
.- The red cobra capable of dodging Rudeus' spells
.- B rank monster can dodge a little Rudeus´ spells

Yeah Eris damaged the Red-Hood Cobra, a A-rank monster.

volume 4 of Mushoku Tensei:

Roxy Side Story

.- Elinalise can cut three meters away with her magic weapon
.- Elinalise's shield is a magical object that mitigates any attack received
.- Talhand very slow compared to Roxy
.- Roxy partially destroys the inn with an ice shot

volume 5 of Mushoku Tensei:

Chapter 4:

.- Ruijerd knows how to speak 3 languages
.- It is implied that Paul cannot against a Class A Monster alone
.- Paul would not survive the demon continent alone
.- It is mentioned again that Ghislaine could lose against Rudeus from enough distance
.- Kalman II defeated an Emperor in his first real battle

Just like Eris he could probably damage it somehow but not kill it and yup alone he's cooked. And that's Advanced Paul, and I have nothing against him being above Elinalise at that point.

 

[Zabazab]

crazy Isolde is the only one we knew

Isolde is a fake Emperor too, her only fights are as a Water King (where she loses to Sword Saint Nina) and after Reida's death, where as a Water Emperor she can 1v1 FG Badigadi and would only lose to him because of his immortality. Saint as a King and God as an Emperor.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Isolde is a fake Emperor too, her only fights are as a Water King (where she loses to Sword Saint Nina) and after Reida's death, where as a Water Emperor she can 1v1 FG Badigadi and would only lose to him because of his immortality. Saint as a King and God as an Emperor.

What are your thoughts on the matter btw?

 

[Narutouchiha95]

If you say so.

I mean from what was said there are some Water Emperor but crazy Isolde is the only one we knew.

Hmm.

By that same logic Rudeus should get like 2 more keys for the sake of distinction.

Teleportation Labyrinth. I sent the scan.


They all could damage snow drakes, but killing one alone they couldn't.

I mean Advanced Paul yeah.

They are A-rank individually.
Ranking of the monsters in the Teleportation Labyrinth:



She quite literally damaged the Red-Hood cobra?

Advanced Paul yeah. Vol 12 Paul handles them just fine.

Again, you're talking about Vol 12 Elinalise, and I agree she's below Vol 5 Paul but that isn't the case later.

Snow Drakes are S-rank in packs.


Yeah Eris damaged the Red-Hood Cobra, a A-rank monster.

Just like Eris he could probably damage it somehow but not kill it and yup alone he's cooked. And that's Advanced Paul, and I have nothing against him being above Elinalise at that point.

I think we're going to be going around in circles with Elinalise and disagreeing. The best thing for now is to have both profiles. Later, if I'm not happy with it, I'll start a thread to tone it down, but it's not worth debating so much about just one character right now.

So, do you want me to review the rest of the characters when I have time?

 

[Digital_Franz]

So, do you want me to review the rest of the characters when I have time?

Yeah.