Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
Evidences yes.
LN Vol 15 there are many mentions that show that world=universe.
I think it was said that it is infinite.
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Mushoku Tensei Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Rendynoc0unter
- Start date
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When was it stated that the Void world is infinite in size
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
Maybe ODT. I don't remember. I'll look when I do the CRT.
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Isn't Laplace's crater a bit too large in diameter compared to all of the continents on earth(using magawa's calc)? In fact, it's even wider than the earth's equatorial/polar diameter(which is literally what you see if you're looking at the earth's entire front face). If that's the case, why isn't this feat considered even close to moon level? What factors were considered in calculating the size of Laplace's crater other than well... the diameter of the crater?
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Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
Maybe.
The energy needed to destroy the moon is probably its GPE. If you even want to model the crater based on the moon, it will be a hemisphere and if you divide the energy needed to destroy the moon by 2 you will get High 6-A.
With my calculation all dimensions are greater than the diameter of the moon except the depth which is unknown. If I switched to vaporization I would have better results but still High 6-A. With a great depth it could reach 5-C but we do not have the exact depth.
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
Of all these feats I don't really see what is calculable. For the generals, they prevented the collapse of the dimension which is a stabilization feat and not LS. For the others I am still with the idea that World=Universe.
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
Nah buddy it will take time. Several months.I really wanna see the low-2c/2c scans now
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damn
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obviously considering we already know that the dragon race has a method of killing immortal demons
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Yeh, I kinda guess they should based on this
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
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Because it's his father who gave him that ability to redo (ODT), I think (this part is headcanon, probably stated or emplied in the novels..) you need to actually destroy the mechanism or the concepts that his father set up for him, and after that, you then need an immortality type 4 negation or soul manipulation to permanently kill him.
Also, this is the first time I heard of MT verse having an EE. When was that shown? Is it on a conceptual level or not
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Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
I think it's just Type 4. I don't think Type 8 really fits.
Yeah it looks like FDG can withstand it.
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Nah, I think he has type 8 immortality since his immortality depends on the 200-year cycle granted by his father specifically to counter Hitogami. Therefore, it should also be considered type 8 if the cycle or his father's power were to be interrupted or negated (implying that if he finally defeats Hitogami, it would be gone). I just need more evidence for this.
Orsted’s immortality functions through a structured cycle. Each time he fails or dies, he doesn’t simply come back, he resets to a predetermined point in time. He should be classified as this because his immortality relies on an ability given to him by his father (I just need a blatant evidence that supports the "relies" part which just straight up give him immortality type 8), which binds him to a 200-year time loop. This means that if he dies or fails to defeat his enemy(Hitogami) within this cycle, he automatically resets.
Type 8 immortality is defined by the need for an external entity, object, or condition to maintain the character's immortality. Orsted fits this description since his ability to return to life is contingent upon his father’s ability and the ongoing cycle. Therefore, I think he has types 1, 4, and 8.
Why do you think he isn't?
So, Orsted also has EE because he can use Godbeam (which is what it's called). However, I don't think the Dragon Generals withstood these same attacks physically by themselves. I mean, Slizard got his face burned, but we don't know which attack caused that. They probably just dodged and only engaged in melee during the battle. But if they did withstand the a godbeam completely, what kind of ability would allow them to avoid being erased in powerscaling terms?
Yeah it looks like FDG can withstand it.
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Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
It's a magic that's been etched into him. No one gets Type 8 because he has reincarnating magic.
No Dragon General took the attack. I said First Dragon God.
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The fact that it's "etched" doesn't change that it's still bound by an external condition (the 200-year cycle). The immortality is contingent upon this condition, meaning it fits type 8 because it's not purely self-sustained. Orsted’s immortality is tied to an external system because the cycle functions as an external condition that resets him. Whether it’s fully dependent on his father or not, the fact that his immortality is triggered by a specific event (failing to defeat Hitogami within 200 years) suggests external influence. The system acts like a condition that maintains his immortality which is literally how type 8 immortality works
I know, I'm just saying that Orsted also has this attack( oh nevermind, I thought you said FDG as in Fullpowered Dragon Generals
)
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Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
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The system does not involve an external force but an external factor. It can be said that in a sense he can obtain Type 8 because of Hitogami.
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The key difference is that his immortality specifically relies/comes from on the magic granted by his father, which establishes the 200-year cycle. Hitogami is not the source of his immortality, instead, he is an obstacle that Orsted must overcome within that cycle. Hitogami's continued existence is what keeps Orsted's cycle going. If Hitogami were to be defeated, Orsted's cycle could potentially end, but that doesn't negate the fact that his immortality fundamentally depends/comes from on his father's magic
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shouldn't Orsted's immortality be guaranteed by acausality 4? Orsted is separated from the principles that govern the world, which allows him to avoid changing his fate and return to the past, which means Orsted's complete death until he kills Hitogami is impossible, since that is his fate
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does this mean that in order to actually kill Orsted completely you either need to nullify acausality or have something that can simply bypass it?
Zabazab
Any/All- 4,097
- 5,388
Not really no, his acausality just makes him resistant to things like precog, clairvoyance, and certain kinds of law manip.
To kill Orsted permanently you just need to nullify or bypass his time looping.
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What's the reason why Orsted won't have type 8 immortality?
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but doesn't his death mean a change in his fate? Hitogami couldn't just kill Roxy by sending some warrior after her because the power of fate would just be set up so that she survives, Orsted's fate is separated from the world which prevents it from being changed which leads to the fact that instead of everyone setting up for Orsted to kill Hitogami, Orsted simply resurrects until that happens
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
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It just doesn't make sense. Like I said the magic is activated on him. Any character that can use resurrection magic will use it on themselves and it can activate automatically but it doesn't give Type 8, just Type 4. The cycle itself doesn't mean anything because it's just a renewal time. It's like someone who is trapped in a loop with a bomb on them. When the timer runs out they just die and start over.
Type 8 works like this: a character is linked to a concept and they can't die as long as that concept exists (Anos, Rimuru, etc.), a character (as long as character A exists then character B can't die), an object (Holo for example who can't die as long as her wheat is not destroyed), a place (often cursed characters who can't die as long as certain places exist and will just respawn there if they die).
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
I don't understand what you're getting at but you have to understand that Type 4 Acausality is almost useless. Just look at Toji from JJK. He has it.
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I just don't understand how Orsted can die if his fate (Hitogami's murder) can't be influencedI don't understand what you're getting at but you have to understand that Type 4 Acausality is almost useless. Just look at Toji from JJK. He has it.
Zabazab
Any/All- 4,097
- 5,388
The time loop is a technique Orsted himself used, his dad just passed it on to him. He was born like 1900 years before the loop starts after all.
He isn't reliant on an object or entity granting him the loop. So it's not Type 8.
That's fate manip, not acausality.
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
It prevents some abilities but ultimately it is still possible to interact with him.
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The way I see it is because his immortality depends on defeating Hitogami(emplictations, maybe he will still has this or not)and is linked to magic from his father. If he fails or dies, he just starts over after 200 years. His ability to live forever is tied to a specific task. The way I see of his type 8 immortality comes from a concept or system that requires him to defeat Hitogami which comes from a magic granted by his father. His resurrection magic is simply how this Type 8 expresses itself when he revives.
As for the others like Kishirika, she is from an immortal race, so she comes back to life many years later after she dies. Her immortality doesn't depend on anything else, it's just how she is.
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okay, i still don't understand how orsted can die until he kills hitogami if this is something that is supposed to happen and can't be influenced, but i'm not an expert in this so i'll just accept it. but in that case, can we at least, based on orsted's statement that this technique was created so that orsted is guaranteed to kill hitogami, assume that orsted can't die from any technique, magic, etc. that have been shown? for example, can we assume that a technique that can kill immortal demons (and which, given the similarity of kishirika's and laplace's reincarnation methods, should logically work on the principle of soul destruction) can't kill orsted?
Digital_Franz
He/Him- 1,854
- 992
Killing Hitogami is not his destiny. It's just a condition implanted into his magic and Orsted just hates Hitogami just like Hitogami wants to kill Orsted because he can kill him. Orsted can be killed but not permanently.
It's just a condition of his magic, nothing to do with immortality. It's like a character whose resurrection magic has a counter.
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That reasoning doesn’t hold up. This just means that his time-loop mechanism started after those years. The point still stands that he has type 8 immortality because of how the ability works, which is literally the same as defined in the wikis. Also, since when was it stated that he was born 1,900 years ago? Wasn't he born 10,000 years ago, and then reincarnated 10,000 years later? That's when his journey started and the time loops began. Before his father's death, his father implanted magic in him
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but Hitogami constantly sees this in his future, which means Hitogami's fate is to die from Orsted, and Orsted's fate in this case is to kill Hitogami. well, and I'm talking about permanent look, ordinary death of not Orsted makes it so that everything that happened never existed, so his non-permanent death does not affect fate, and therefore Hitogami killing Orsted does not change anything, at the same time permanent death means a change in fate.
Snd what about the technique that can kill immortal demons who are also have immortality 4? will we consider that it cannot kill Orsted permanently, and therefore ordinary destruction of the soul probably cannot do it?
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Yeah, "it's just a condition of his magic", that literally is the external concept that enables Orsted's time loop. The magic his father passed on is what establishes how his immortality functions like that of a type 8 immortal. If he "defeats" Hitogami, which is a key part of this cycle, his immortality may cease to exist. The connection just shows that his ability to reset is dependent on that external magic. His ressurection is just how his type 8 expresses.
. Please convince me how it is not type 8, because these are literally the reliant conditions that support why he is type 8. This is based on my understanding of his rbd, as his (or his dad's) goal and the consequences of failing that goal are what make Orsted a type 8 immortal
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