Mortal Kombat 1 Discussion Thread

[BlackDarkness679]

This is the very reason MK is and will be a doomed verse powerscaled on this platform

You cant use fatalities/brutalities, you cant use intro dialogues, you cant use arcade endings, you cant use blatant feats like realm merging or sustenance of it, neither timeline destruction, sustenance or the clash which resulted in 2-A power which even Ed Boon said its what they were going for cuz all of it is just hax not AP

And those who handle MK here will defend this lowballed tier 8/9 as being more fair and accurate cuz "hurr durr power scaling MK is inconsistent", despite comic books suffer more of that, yet look at some profiles ratings

So many restrictions and rules for this verse and struggling to find big feats which dont exist other then the obvious. Poorly done work and if you call it out, they just throw excuses and reasons for them along saying you dont help

 

[KingTempest]

I hate to do this, but to play devil's advocate, people can scale to people who can make storms but get blown up by grenades

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I hate to do this, but to play devil's advocate, people can scale to people who can make storms but get blown up by grenades

Then lets downgrade original DB cuz the assassin Goku fought met its end by a grenade or downgrade any verse with various big feats, just cuz guns are used to try and injure or kill them, cuz they cant just bounce them off like superman does

People should understand from a story telling pov you gotta commit to some stuff like this, why should i be worried a character with many tier 7 feats can die to a gun to his head since he has stuff above a mere gun

Or why should i worry Kratos gets hurt by lesser stuff then tier 3/2 since he is generally under that level of power

Not to mention outliers exist as well, especially when it comes to guns and the like in fiction

 

[KingTempest]

Then lets downgrade original DB cuz the assassin Goku fought met its end by a grenade or downgrade any verse with various big feats, just cuz guns are used to try and injure or kill them, cuz they cant just bounce them off like superman does

People should understand from a story telling pov you gotta commit to some stuff like this, why should i be worried a character with many tier 7 feats can die to a gun to his head since he has stuff above a mere gun

Or why should i worry Kratos gets hurt by lesser stuff then tier 3/2 since he is generally under that level of power

Not to mention outliers exist as well, especially when it comes to guns and the like in fiction

nah
with mk it's like narratively consistent they aren't that high

now the higher tier god chars okay, but the lower ones, nah

 

[BlackDarkness679]

"Narratively consistent"

To you it includes characters like Scorpion, Subzero, even deities like Raiden, Cetrion and such in the mix?

Characters like Sonya, Jax and similar are more then fair they wont be in such big levels for example, but this mindset adds others under that same premise just to appeal with the consistency rather then make the distinction in power difference clear as day

 

[Quangotjokes]

@Cyberblader90 isn't one of the intros with Cetrion her saying she killed Fujin despite that not happening at all? Kinda makes it even more dubious to use.

Also idk why the time keepers not being tier 2 is being argued here, especially with Liu Kang and Shang Tsung when they’re verbatim stated to cause the timeline splits with their clashes, nothing about the hourglass had anything to do with it, at best it just amped both characters since they took its power but it would still scale regardless.

Well fighting also causes the realms to merge and nobody scales to that. It's just MK logic that doesn't scale to physicals.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Can I get an answer on why you folks are adamantly refusing to use Rain's kick and putting out Tier 9/8 ratings?

Probably just teleportation tbh

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Speaking of which, weren't they fighting at the Hourglass courtyard, which is stated by Liu Kang to be "beyond the realms"? As in, it's beyond time and all that?

Does that entail anything?

It's beyond the realms which are separated by the Void which is the same interstitial space of emptiness where time doesn't flow that the Aftermath trio were banished to. Make of that as you will, besides the Hourglass being hard to reach and hard to detect since not even Raiden's cosmic awareness can find it

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Lmfao

I would be thankful if you filled out Kano's skill section because you're consistently like 500x better at that shit then I am lol

DaReaperMan/Kano

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think Ka-yes' intelligence section is wrong but he has some good stuff going on for his tech intelligence

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think Ka-yes' intelligence section is wrong but he has some good stuff going on for his tech intelligence

"This is wrong" refuses to elaborate

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

No I didn't refuse lol I just think he has stuff far better than what's in here, iirc the devs said he designed Kabal's buzzsaws and if I'm not mistaken he made the bio-magnetic device too along with the snare that he left after stealing Shinnok's Amulet in MKX from a highly secure vault, said snare requiring Raiden to focus his full attention on it to disable it by travelling to many realms. Then there's him repairing and upgrading Sektor and just his overall technology knowledge. In MKX he was also Kotal Kahn's technical advisor and weapon supplier

As for fighting skill he's not too impressive considering his poor W-L record

 

[DaReaperMan]

No I didn't refuse lol I just think he has stuff far better than what's in here, iirc the devs said he designed Kabal's buzzsaws and if I'm not mistaken he made the bio-magnetic device too along with the snare that he left after stealing Shinnok's Amulet in MKX from a highly secure vault, said snare requiring Raiden to focus his full attention on it to disable it by travelling to many realms. Then there's him repairing and upgrading Sektor and just his overall technology knowledge. In MKX he was also Kotal Kahn's technical advisor and weapon supplier

As for fighting skill he's not too impressive considering his poor W-L record

Well feel free to add those on, but outside of the Sektor thing(which all that would be another tabber for tech) I doubt they'd get to be Genius

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I can't access the sources for those right now but you can at least keep that in mind. As for where you can find them:

• His snare feat is in MKX, I think Raiden's chapter has him explaining what it did to him. Sonya says something about how guarded the vault was with all the Special Forces and Shaolin guarding it, so extra credibility for Kano's theft feat there
• Kano designing Kabal's weapons is in the MK11 Kombat Kast for Kabal iirc. The bio-magnet is probs in Kano's MK11 Kombat Kast

 

[DaReaperMan]

I can't access the sources for those right now but you can at least keep that in mind. As for where you can find them:

• His snare feat is in MKX, I think Raiden's chapter has him explaining what it did to him. Sonya says something about how guarded the vault was with all the Special Forces and Shaolin guarding it, so extra credibility for Kano's theft feat there
• Kano designing Kabal's weapons is in the MK11 Kombat Kast for Kabal iirc. The bio-magnet is probs in Kano's MK11 Kombat Kast

Yeah I actually removed the magnet thing cause I couldn't find it lol

But give me about 15 minutes and I'll try to find the dang things

 

[DaReaperMan]

I can't access the sources for those right now but you can at least keep that in mind. As for where you can find them:

• His snare feat is in MKX, I think Raiden's chapter has him explaining what it did to him. Sonya says something about how guarded the vault was with all the Special Forces and Shaolin guarding it, so extra credibility for Kano's theft feat there
• Kano designing Kabal's weapons is in the MK11 Kombat Kast for Kabal iirc. The bio-magnet is probs in Kano's MK11 Kombat Kast

I be done

 

[SamanPatou]

Uh, no. It happens after Liu Kang gathers his friends.

That's true, my bad.

That isn't relevant to the other timelines being forged.

Imho kinda yes to me, since the only real cosmic feat is the split, while everything else remains related to the hourglass.

Once again, Liu Kang and his Titan allies are standing in the way from the good-old method.

Same goes for him nuking it through his own power, Liu stood in his way even when he attacked the hourglass. It still doesn't make sense to me that Shang has the raw power to destroy the whole timeline, but limits himself to to do it via the hourglass. It's not like he didn't even have the time either, Liu lost a lot of time pummeling his minions while him and others kept assaulting the hourglass.

Argument from incredulity and AP =/= DC fallacy. Plus, the leaked files.

It's not incredulity, rather the fact that if a clash between two titans split the timelines, the clash between countless more should have had effects, not even visible ones honestly.
We'll judge the leaked files once the game content comes out, I could very well change my mind.

Hmm I get that more but then I have to disagree, the timelines are clearly affected by Shang and Liu, both people say this

I never tried to refute that, I personally believe it's more a matter of hax instead of ap, because no one could affect the timelines on their own.

Again though, this feels like argument from incredulity considering how often this exact issue happens in fiction, the precedent has already been set Titans can scale to the timeline

Once again, I don't talk about any visible damage, and I also said it's a secondary if not theritary argument to me.

I feel burning implies he’s going to damage the timeline specifically rather then burning all life within it. To burn something implies the thing itself is being affected here, rather then something within the thing.

Then it means he somehow changed his mind to wait and kill everyone, and start the cosmic destruction only then. The narration doesn't even say he nuked other timelines, he only fled to another when he saw Kasumi killed. It's a pretty common figure of speech to say to burn something down, from worlds to universes, pretty much the only "being stated to be a treath to".

Based off precedent from both the fake and leaks I’d argue it would be

We'll see once the actual content comes out I guess.

Eh I get that but I think we’ve had it established they can do this

I'm not sure what you refer to.

So we can't have Liu Kang's black hole, I presume? That sucks.

I still believe they could be added to the profiles.
As I said some time ago, I think such things (Liu's BH, Cetrion's gigasize, Cyrax 5-B bombs) could be added to the profiles for completion and flavor, just not as main ratings, but rather via that specific attack, while specifying it's more gameplay rather than lore.

 

[SamanPatou]

DaReaperMan/Kano

vsbattles.fandom.com

Can we review this before I make me CRT?

I don't think he qualifies for Immort type 2. While that kind of damage would surely incapacitate a normal person immediately, it might not kill outright kill them, or at least it doesn't seem to straightforward to me, also considering how he lacks other showings of this kind. However, it is more than viable for superhuman stamina.
He needs energy projection for his laser eye.
I wouldn't give him gifted combat intelligence, he's never won a single battle and is repeteadly treated as a clown by everyone. It's fine for everything else.

About the comics, a few years ago we decided to ditch them completely because of continuity errors and Dominic Cianciolo stating they weren't to be considered canon. If needed, I can go back and fetch the various errors that led to this decision.
This is also the reason why we aren't using the High 8-C feats to which low and mid tiers scaled to.

 

[Theglassman12]

@TacticalNuke002 take it up to the persona fans if you think 1-A is wank.

@Quangotjokes pretty sure the fact that both Liu and Shang are amped by the hourglass and their existence is tied to said hourglass since Shang destroying it would’ve resulted in Liu Kang dying would make this a special case.

@BlackDarkness679 using Kratos of all characters is not helping your point when there’s numerous explanations in the series and by the developers themselves why he seems to struggle with weaker feats, something MK lacks. If you think the cast is stronger than tier 8 then by all means bring the feats that puts them at a much higher level.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think he qualifies for Immort type 2. While that kind of damage would surely incapacitate a normal person immediately, it might not kill outright kill them, or at least it doesn't seem to straightforward to me, also considering how he lacks other showings of this kind. However, it is more than viable for superhuman stamina.
He needs energy projection for his laser eye.
I wouldn't give him gifted combat intelligence, he's never won a single battle and is repeteadly treated as a clown by everyone. It's fine for everything else.

About the comics, a few years ago we decided to ditch them completely because of continuity errors and Dominic Cianciolo stating they weren't to be considered canon. If needed, I can go back and fetch the various errors that led to this decision.
This is also the reason why we aren't using the High 8-C feats to which low and mid tiers scaled to.

Alright on Immo type 2

It's all in the cybernetics section and I got lazy lol

Considering outside of MK9 Johnny(who MK11 Kano actually beat the ass of off-screen) the majority of people who beat Kano are SF, Kabal, or mother ******* Kotal Kahn, it don't be that bad lol

Gotcha, will remove all mentions of Sub-zero on the profile then

 

[KLOL506]

Imho kinda yes to me, since the only real cosmic feat is the split, while everything else remains related to the hourglass.

Again, that literally means nothing for the split itself.

Same goes for him nuking it through his own power, Liu stood in his way even when he attacked the hourglass. It still doesn't make sense to me that Shang has the raw power to destroy the whole timeline, but limits himself to to do it via the hourglass. It's not like he didn't even have the time either, Liu lost a lot of time pummeling his minions while him and others kept assaulting the hourglass.

Already went through this one countless times, can't be arsed to respond to this argument again. Let's agree to disagree on this front.

It's not incredulity, rather the fact that if a clash between two titans split the timelines, the clash between countless more should have had effects, not even visible ones honestly.

Unfortunately that's exactly what this is, but you do you I guess.

I never tried to refute that, I personally believe it's more a matter of hax instead of ap, because no one could affect the timelines on their own.

That's not even an argument.

And it objectively isn't hax, but an AP feat, we've been through this countless times, IDK on what grounds you're assuming it to be such when even the source material does not agree with you on this.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yep, as I suspected, Class 5 is calcless, and I can't even scale Kano below Kotal in LS cause Kotal is given jack shit on his profile

 

[KLOL506]

Or why should i worry Kratos gets hurt by lesser stuff then tier 3/2 since he is generally under that level of power

Do I really need to elaborate on why using Kratos here is literally the dumbest possible move you could make, especially considering that

1. More than Half of his "anti-feats" are literally taken out of context or involve a massively-weakened Kratos without any of his Godly powers

2. Devs explicitly stated that in-game he struggles so that game balancing exists

3. Half of the shit that threatens Kratos is almost always stated to be magical so as to keep actual Tier 3/2 people out, or that they're made of shit that have genuine credibility of harming said Tier 3/2 people and weapons

4. Other "anti-feats" mentioned in the novels literally do not make it to the game and are thus not even taken into account (Novel being secondary canon means contradictory stuff gets surpassed by primary canon AKA video games and comics, while novel parts that don't contradict are considered canon).

MK has none of that to its advantage. So instead of complaining about people not finding feats, how about you do it yourself, when even I of all people, who knows barely ****-all about it, am trying my damned hardest to give the verse the rating it deserves?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Yep, as I suspected, Class 5 is calcless, and I can't even scale Kano below Kotal in LS cause Kotal is given jack shit on his profile

Class 5 comes from ripping heads

 

[DaReaperMan]

Class 5 comes from ripping heads

Like... off? Can I haz the feats that I can cherry-link back to Kano?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@BlackDarkness679 using Kratos of all characters is not helping your point when there’s numerous explanations in the series and by the developers themselves why he seems to struggle with weaker feats, something MK lacks. If you think the cast is stronger than tier 8 then by all means bring the feats that puts them at a much higher level.

Will you cut out with this bull of "if you say the stats are wrong, do something about it then", this is your only solution and with close minded folks here and there denying anything remotely above basic levels of power, on which you are a part of too is useless

You are gonna ignore like always along most of the members here the stuff said earlier, on which last time you talked with me brought up excuses after excuses only, you were told in the very 1st comment a generalization of some of the stuff, im not gonna waste my time with you specifically to tell again something, just to then go back and forth resulting in nothing

All i hear about MK on this forum is literally the same old shit repeated "inconsistency" , "hax unrelated to physicals" at least bring something i never heard before and learn to open to more then just what others tell you, how much you know about MK on your own? I will answer for you, not as much as you try to let on and this applies to many more

And this time dont even try to contact me on the wall or any other manner, dont know why you even tagged me to begin with here, if thats all you gonna say

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I'm personally fine with Brutalities and Fatalities not being used as AP feats (Cetrion being the notable exception), just like ladder endings or intro dialogues not being used as canon unless they're tied to the plot. But in my eyes, we should have the possibility to take abilities from them, the devs showed the characters doing something in attacks that are all specific to them so they should have the abilities shown in their moves

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Like... off? Can I haz the feats that I can cherry-link back to Kano?

Calc for ripping heads which puts it at 12,000 newtons of force

Ripping heads is a common MK feat

 

[BlackDarkness679]

MK has none of that to its advantage. So instead of complaining about people not finding feats, how about you do it yourself, when even I of all people, who knows barely *****-all about it, am trying my damned hardest to give the verse the rating it deserves?

You admit you dont know anything basically yet you mention at the start the verse has anti feats to not allow anything, you realize what you say?

Edit: Name a reason why to contribute in a verse if people will just cast any suggestion aside cuz it doesnt fit with the popular opinion, when even the blatant 2-A thing that Ed Boon supported well before this game came is ignored, that already tells you how much you will succeed to get them above tier 9/8, have fun

 

[KLOL506]

You admit you dont know anything basically yet you mention at the start the verse has anti feats to not allow anything, you realize what you say?

Accusations already? Need I remind you the whole fiasco within fighting game scaling?

Edit: Name a reason why to contribute in a verse if people will just cast any suggestion aside cuz it doesnt fit with the popular opinion, when even the blatant 2-A thing that Ed Boon supported well before this game came is ignored, that already tells you how much you will succeed to get them above tier 9/8, have fun

You have said much, yes, but you have shown me nothing.

 

[Theglassman12]

@BlackDarkness679 No I won’t cut it out because if you have the arguments that can prove they are on that level, then prove it, otherwise stop bitching and complaining about it if you’re not gonna do shit.

Ah yes excuses after excuses and not just them having an actual argument behind their point. A great way to refute their points.

Don’t lecture me on what I know and don’t know about MK. I know enough that inconsistencies are prevalent, especially in NRS’s era of MK. What I don’t do is bitch and moan about the ratings and instead just discuss with other knowledgeable folks on the ratings, something you can’t seem to understand for whatever reason.

You were making a bunch of stupid claims on how we don’t take anything at all despite us discussing the legitimacy of the tier 2 feats for titans, I’m calling you out on just complaining and I’m telling you to bring actual feats into the table, if you don’t remotely want to do that then leave the thread if your only contribution is to complain.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Calc for ripping heads which puts it at 12,000 newtons of force

Ripping heads is a common MK feat

All right, added, I think that should be all until Kotal is revised

Imagine if Kano has easily the best NRS MK profile

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Accusations already? Need I remind you the whole fiasco within fighting game scaling?

Cuz its hard for know when the line is drawn regarding who scales and not, how much have you been in the community regarding power scaling? The fact you even bring that up as an issue doesnt tell me you know enough

You have said much, yes, but you have shown me nothing.

Since you read just what you want, like glass, just check the top comment of page 9, a generalization of some, unless you also wanna tell you dont know what they are all about meaning

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Imagine if Kano has easily the best NRS MK profile

I mean, it all depends on you, maybe you will make it happen

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, it all depends on you, maybe you will make it happen

I mean I may pull an Overwatch and only revise the characters I give 2 ***** about lol

 

[Theglassman12]

That reminds me, does prying open a door count for lifting strength or no?

 

[DaReaperMan]

That reminds me, does prying open a door count for lifting strength or no?

It should

 

[KLOL506]

Cuz its hard for know when the line is drawn regarding who scales and not, how much have you been in the community regarding power scaling? The fact you even bring that up as an issue doesnt tell me you know enough

Buddy, I scale GoW, DMC, Assassin's Creed, Like a Dragon, the MCU, Marvel and DC (Street tiers primarily, especially where the scaling is just as whack if not more so) and a handful of other obscure verses most people don't even know of, for 6 straight years now (I've been lurking around and seeing shit unfold for even longer before I joined the wiki officially), and I have even gone through absolute hell to be a CGM, so I can assure you, I am plenty knowledgeable enough and far too over-qualified to understand exactly how powerscaling works on this wiki.

I'm gonna warn you, right here and now, don't assume shit like that about people jumping to accusations in the future ever again.

Since you read just what you want, like glass, just check the top comment of page 9, a generalization of some, unless you also wanna tell you dont know what they are all about meaning

I did, and honestly, it just feels like you're constantly bitching and moaning about getting things done without actually doing the heavy lifting yourself, like Ecstasy, Lightning, Hellbeast and I have been doing for the last few years, so maybe get out of your small-ass bubble and actually surf the wiki for our activity, for once?

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Rewatched the first movie, about halfway through the second.

Some solid feats that need calced, ranging from 9-B to possibly Tier 8, if anyone would wanna do some calcs :]

One question, are the realms different universes? Would merging Earthrealm and Outworld be 2-C?

 

[Theglassman12]

@ShockingPsychic if the realms are separate space times then merging them should be 2-C, we at least have Ed boon saying earth realm has no physical limits and stuff like the Netherrealm being infinite in size in Shaolin monks so the whole size issue is cleared for that.

 

[Hellbeast]

There’s also John Tobias stating the realms are infinite with their own flows of time