More in-depth explanations for profile pages

[Antvasima]

I think that it would be a good idea if we start to encourage our members to write longer explanations for the power levels of characters at the bottom of character, weapons, and verse profiles, to avoid constant future confusion and unnecessary discussions. This is particularly important for higher-tier pages that cannot be defined by calculations.

Basically, it would probably be good if we focused more on quality than quantity long-term. The ACF wiki has done this for a long time (taking this as an invite to bash it is strongly prohibited), and the profiles there are generally much more informative than our own.

We have already started to do this to an extent with the information blogs, but this would take things a few steps further.

From a practical angle, we would of course have to modify the guidelines in the standard format pages, and likely insert some regulations in the front page, and one of the rules sections. We would also have to note that good grammar and structure is necessary for these sections.

Personally, I am quite tired and dizzy, so I would appreciate help and advise for getting this part organised.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Generally, it would be nice for profile pages to contain in-depth explanations of a characters' abilities, powers and nature.

Examples of this can be found in most pages for Naruto and Bleach character, Azzy's Cthulhu Mythos and Undertale pages, or the Demi-Fiend page.

While I don't think every page needs to be as large as ACF's biggest ones, it would still be pretty nice.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Note that there are actually quite a few profiles here on the Wiki that do not have any explanations for their stats whatsoever. For example, I saw some of them (Fossil Fighters) that have no basis for their AP whatsoever.

Should those profiles be allowed to stay, or should they be deleted?

Alternatively, I think we should make a rule stating that users should be discouraged from making new profiles without having a staff member, or a user expereinced in the standard format guidelines check said profile first. This will prevent profiles

• that will have improper formatting according to the standard format for character/weapon profiles
• as well having insufficient descriptions in terms of their stats, mainly their AP and Speed.

Kind of like a quality test for the profile before said profile is allowed to be uploaded to the Wiki.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We should delete all superflous profiles that have no valuable descriptions whatsoever, yes. Specially if the verse isn't notable in power or popularity.

Not saying that all pages need to fit those requirements, as members are allowed to make profiles for their favorite series, regardless of how noteworthy they are.

But Fossil Fighters is a good example of how meaningles some can be.

 

[A6colute]

Well, may be we should use a

This article is a stub. It contains unclear or incomplete information. You can help VS Battles Wiki by expanding it. ​

template for marking those profiles without any explanation?

 

[Lina_Shields]

I think that deleting the superflous profiles would be a better option, to save some space here on the Wiki and all.

You can add a stub tag on an incomplete profile, but most people won't bother to fill in said profile anyways, especially for characters from unknown/less popular verses.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe we could delete the very incomplete unpopular pages, and use the stub option for characters from more notable franchises?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We should have a thread for page deletion.

 

[Antvasima]

You mean an official thread linked via the first page and in the navigation bar? I suppose that this would be a good idea.

 

[Lina_Shields]

A page deletion thread would be an excellent idea. Any thoughts on what should be written in the OP post of said thread?

I'll make a page deletion thread tomorrow afternoon or something.

 

[Antvasima]

I would also appreciate help with writing the text for such a thread.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Maybe we can have a Profile Creation Consultation thread or something, or can the Profile Creation Request thread be used for something like that as well?

Then maybe we can encourage them to post there first, a mock profile before being given a go signal to make the actual page.

Oh, and I'm up for deleting obscure and half-assed profiles if there is a way to bring it back later, as a lot of profiles that look unfinished or half-assed are from years ago, before I was even here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Official Profile Cleaning / Erasing Thread"

How does that sound for a name?

 

[Antvasima]

"Official Profile Cleaning or Deletion Thread" perhaps?

 

[Lina_Shields]

"The Official Profile Removal Request Thread"

How does this sound? It matches the naming for the profile creation thread that we currently have.

 

[Antvasima]

Posting entire profiles in a thread would not be practical. It would create one of the most cluttered, slow-loading forum threads ever.

 

[Antvasima]

"The Official Profile Deletion Request Thread" would be fine with me.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Well, users could just post the name of profile that needs to be removed, state a couple reasons why, and then a content mod/admin can check and remove said profile.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. That should hopefully be fine, although Matthew's name suggestion seems to hold the door open for simply cleaning up the profile as well.

 

[Reppuzan]

If I may add a suggestion, could the profiles also contain anti-feats as well? Feats are self-explanatory since it shows how much a character can do and what kind of battles it has won in-verse, but anti-feats are useful when it concerns powerful characters because it shows said powerful characters actually lost in their respective verse. It prevents people from having NLF assumptions towards certain characters since there are moments in the story they have been defeated.

An example would be to mention in Reinhard Heydrich's profile whether he lost in his verse and how, considering he's a villainous character, though heroic characters shouldn't be exempt from the rule as well since they may also have lost in their most powerful form.

Also yeah I agree more information regarding characters should be explored. Case example: Kami Tenchi and Divine Presence. They are regarded as Tier 0 on this website, but it would be nice if their pages have more explanation to their presence in the story, what invoked their presence and so on. And that should be extended to profiles in general, of course. The profile of Asriel Dreemurr is a good example that should be encouraged, since you get a lot of context out of the profile as opposed to only their stats, a few powers and that's it.

These are some really good points, but unfortunately this is a staff thread and we have to delete your comment.

That said, I agree with this measure wholeheartedly. This wiki is seriously lacking in explanations for certain profiles and other times we simply copy-paste explanations off other wikis, which is plagiarism and is rarely justified.

I'm also interested in what DontTalk said about an Article of the Month option. Providing good examples to users would certainly help improve the quality of the wiki... if people read it. I'm just worried that people will ignore it and do their own thing.

P.S. I played Fossil Fighters when I was younger, so I'll see what I can do about those profiles.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that a new featured article every month would be too much of a bother, and risk to be repetitive. It is better to simply include various well-written pages as examples/templates/inspiration for our contributors in the featured section of the wiki navigation bar.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, except for that, I think that DontTalk's suggestions have merit.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Page Deletion thread sounds like a good idea, as it gives us a chance to redeem or completer/update a profile one of us might know about, and then we won't have the "it was deleted, why did you remake it?" followed by "I didn't know, I just wanted a good page for X"

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe we should stick to the "Official Profile Cleaning or Deletion Thread" title instead? It leaves open the option of improving on the profiles and giving them a "Stub" tag, instead of mass-deleting lots of articles.

In addition, we should likely not start to remove the characters from lots of notable works, but focus on the less know ones instead.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, regarding the original topic, does anybody have suggestions for appropriately written instructions in the standard format pages and front page regulations?

Would a longer explanation section at the bottom of the page be enough, or should the entire profiles risk to become more cluttered? Also, what should the section in question be called?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ant

Personally, I think a longer explanation section at the bottom would just be clutter, since everything that would go in that section would go in the explanations for each stat as well as Feats and Notable Attacks/Techniques. But, I wouldn't mind if it were just used to explain the full extent or the mechanics behind one's powers.

However, if this section were to be implemented, I'd call it something along the lines of "Additional Information/Details" or "Further Explanations".

The problem is, we can't make people list out explanations for each and every power. We can list it as a rule, but it'd be impossible to try and get every user to follow this rule thoroughly. Plus, many users are "write first, think later" type individuals and plan on putting in the stats afterward... only to never do it at all.

 

[Antvasima]

@All

Hmm. It seems like I forgot that we already have an official article clean-up thread. We simply do not use it much. It is listed under "Featured: Wiki Management" in the navigation bar.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/66507

Perhaps we should be less strict with actually deleting pages, and instead mostly focus on replacing unmotivated statistics with "Unknown" ratings instead?

Of course, stub pages are another issue. If there is almost no structure whatsoever for the pages, we could delete them instead.

@Reppuzan

Well, I think that statistics explanation sections are a good idea to improve the overall quality of the wiki. We obviously cannot force people to write them, but we can encourage them to do so. Perhaps we could give it the "Optional" tag in the standard format pages?

Calling the section "Further Explanations" might be an idea, unless somebody has better suggestions.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I would think a longer explanation section at the bottom of the page would suffice, as it is much better than having a lack of explanations for why that said character is rated the way they are.

OR

Note: A more detailed explanation of this character of powers can be read here.

• (blog post 1)
• (blog post 2)

 

[Antvasima]

In-page explanations seem like a better option. Blog posts cannot be modified/improved by most other members.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Well, Reppuzan (I think it was him) added this to the Rudeus Greyrat profile...

- - -

Feats:

[Feats]​

​

- - -

Maybe we can do this with other profiles for more detailed explanations?

 

[Antvasima]

Feats sections are fine as well, but they are no replacement for actual structured reasoning and explanations.

Anyway, I am not quite satisfied with the initial reasoning within the Article Clean-Up thread that I linked above. Perhaps we should replace it with a new "Official Profile Cleaning or Deletion Thread" instead?

 

[Gemmysaur]

I was talking about the fact that it's collapsible rather than having a feats section, but I see what you mean.

I'm with you on the Profile Cleaning/Deletion thread though.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Ant: I have replaced the title of my above post with "Official Profile Cleaning of Deletion Thread".

Perhaps Kavpeny's post from the original article clean-up thread should be taken and added to the new thread that is going to be made regarding this topic?

Also, I agree with Ant that a collapsible feats section is not a substitute for actual structured reasoning and explanations.

However, there is actually no harm in making a blog for character explanations, and rather beneficial. This is because:

• A blog post gives more spacing room for the editor to explain things in greater detail.
• Instead of going through all the character profiles in that verse, explaining why his/her AP/Speed/stats are rated the way they are, the user can explain all of that within a single blog post.
• Explanations and reasonings for why the stats are written the way have been done by a user that has sizable knowledge in that series, and should probably be left alone. If another user thinks that something in the explanation needs to be changed, he/she should make a content revision thread for it

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally prefer if in-depth explanations about franchises as a whole would be handled in the verse pages, or if they would be too long to be contained there, moved to separate regular pages, rather than blogs. That way other knowledgeable members can add to or improve on the structure later on.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Ant: I think your ideas are good. I just think that if those explanations are accessible to regular members some of them could have an easier time going into a certain profile and change those explanations.

Am vouching for your current idea on this.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. Although the separate explanation pages (with the contents moved there from blog posts) should probably be admin-locked, and only be temporarily opened after content revision threads.

 

[Antvasima]

If the rest of you think that it is a good idea, would anybody be willing to copy the source code texts from our franchise explanation blogs to separate pages, admin-lock them, and change the links to them in the verse pages?

Also, should we get a page to use as an example for more in-depth profile explanations?

 

[DontTalk]

In the cases that we have to make extra pages for explanations of the verse, I would suggest making them subpages of verse pages.

So for example the explanations for the Cthulhu Mythos go to https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Cthulhu_Mythos/Explanatio

Just for the sake of coherent naming, order and easily finding them with the search bar.

 

[Antvasima]

Wouldn't it be easier to just call it "Cthulhu Mythos Explanation" instead? I am not sure if sub-pages would work as well in practice as regular ones.