Moon Level Rocket Racoon (MCU)

[ShadowWhoWalks]

May I please see these two feats side-by-side so we all can confirm this to be accurate?

Posted it above, but here are the Youtube links:
@0:42


@1:00

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The non-damaged Hydron used to directly hit Ronan is the one stated to bust moons so its potency can't be questioned only deemed an outlier or not.

And looking at the two scenes you linked (I can't remember a good amount of the movie), the latter Hydron is clearly damaged and hardly functional until Rocket gets it working again but based on its look it's clearly not working at a 100%. That is more likely why its blast radius isn't large and the explosion doesn't look as strong.

Per staff interview, the Hadron Enforcer fires nuclear warheads that result in a contained explosion; so we are not talking about some pure energy blast.
The device is working enough to launch the warhead, and there difference in the performances of the two warheads we've seen.

 

[Dienomite22]

Posted it above, but here are the Youtube links:
@0:42


@1:00

---

Per staff interview, the Hadron Enforcer fires nuclear warheads that result in a contained explosion; so we are not talking about some pure energy blast.
The device is working enough to launch the warhead, and there difference in the performances of the two warheads we've seen.

I suppose that is true but the one Ronan tanked would still be the 5-C warhead. If scraps can determine the power of the warhead then it's likely Rocket chose not to make a 5-C warhead since the guy in the staff interview does say the warhead it fires would take out things in a 10-foot diameter, a range that Peter would be within if it were to fire one of the normal warhead it fires.

 

[Antvasima]

What other 5-C feats does the verse have? If this is basically the only one then it's flat out an outlier.

And doesn't basically every single Avenger have a feat of harming Thanos or physically clashing with him in some way?

The more people that scale to a feat the more evidence is needed to support it.

I agree with this. All other, more explicit and calculated, feats in the verse come nowhere close to this scale of power.

 

[Antvasima]

Honestly the MCU profiles look like a mess

Spider-Man has justifications scaling him to both Iron Man and Thanos and Iron Man has a justification that scales him to Thanos, yet neither are rated anywhere near him.

Regardless, as mentioned above by others, if Thanos scales to it then CM, Iron Man, Thor and others would too.

The MCU is not nearly as extreme as Marvel Comics, but has still adapted some of its "everybody can fight everybody, regardless of power level" principle.

 

[DuDE01010]

Rocket

Attack Potency: At least Street level (Stronger than Baby Groot), at most Building level (Fought on par with Gamora. Fought the Abilisk). At least Building level with different weapons or with preparation time (created grenades capable of busting walls and a rocket launcher that could blow up small ships, his firearms should be comparable to if not stronger than that of Star-Lord's), likely Moon level with the Hadron Enforcer (He claimed that the Hadron Enforcer could blow up a moon, and that was confirmed by the guidebook as well)

Ronan

Durability: At least Multi-City Block level, likely higher (Took hits from Drax with ease. Survived the destruction of the Dark Aster (3 miles long) which Groot barely survived with shields)

^^^
This?

 

[Starter_Pack]

Say "Likely Moon level." Despite the statements from both the movie and the guidebooks, we have yet to see the Hadron Enforcer actually pull off something like a moon-level feat.

 

[DuDE01010]

Fixed.

 

[DuDE01010]

Say "Likely Moon level." Despite the statements from both the movie and the guidebooks, we have yet to see the Hadron Enforcer actually pull off something like a moon-level feat.

Can it be applied then?

Rocket

Attack Potency: At least Street level (Stronger than Baby Groot), at most Building level (Fought on par with Gamora. Fought the Abilisk). At least Building level with different weapons or with preparation time (created grenades capable of busting walls and a rocket launcher that could blow up small ships, his firearms should be comparable to if not stronger than that of Star-Lord's), likely Moon level with the Hadron Enforcer (He claimed that the Hadron Enforcer could blow up a moon, and that was confirmed by the guidebook as well)

Ronan

Durability: At least Multi-City Block level, likely higher (Took hits from Drax with ease. Survived the destruction of the Dark Aster (3 miles long) which Groot barely survived with shields)

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we need a considerable amount of staff input before we can allow this kind of controversial revisions that risks to upgrade a lot of characters to 5-C.

 

[DuDE01010]

I think that we need a considerable amount of staff input before we can allow this kind of controversial revisions that risks to upgrade a lot of characters to 5-C.

Hmm ok. I didn't realize multiple characters are also getting upgraded.

I thought it didn't scale to anyone since the general consensus was Ronan tanking it was and outlier and therefore only Rocket gets 5-C via Hadron Enforcer?

 

[KieranH10]

Yes. Rocket is fine having the weapon with a 5-C rating, and Ronan's case would be an outlier, so this wouldn't scale to anyone.

 

[Antvasima]

It doesn't make much sense that a random powerful weapon is more powerful than the Infinity Gems though, and again, people would not be satisfied with this change alone. They would want 5-C upgrades for ALL the top tiers.

 

[KieranH10]

There's arguments that have been made to imply a variable power level in this thread iirc. (Granted I'm unsure of how those went). Perhaps "Up to 5-C" would fit better than a straight out 5-C?

There are a bunch of weapons we consider stronger than many stones on the wiki, later Iron Man armors are stronger than the Chitauri Scepter, many ships are mid Tier 6, etc. The Hadron Enforcer would still pale in comparison to the likes of the Power Stone though.

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah, and then Thor with Stormbreaker, and similarly powerful characters, would also be 5-C.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

It doesn't make much sense that a random powerful weapon is more powerful than the Infinity Gems though, and again, people would not be satisfied with this change alone. They would want 5-C upgrades for ALL the top tiers.

Aren't the infinity stones more hax than AP? The only one that's really AP based is the power stone and that is 5-A at it's peak, so I don't see that much of an issue

 

[KieranH10]

Yeah, and then Thor with Stormbreaker, and similarly powerful characters, would also be 5-C.

Why would they? They have absolutely no reason to scale to the Hadron Enforcer as they literally never came into contact with one another, Rocket never even brought up the Hadron Enforcer in Infinity War or Endgame. Probably because if Rocket said "Hey I have a Moon busting weapon in my pocket lets use that" there wouldn't be a movie. But that just seems like PIS to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Is the Power Stone and the full Gauntlet listed as 5-A? I thought that it was much lower.

 

[Antvasima]

Why would they? They have absolutely no reason to scale to the Hadron Enforcer as they literally never came into contact with one another, Rocket never even brought up the Hadron Enforcer in Infinity War or Endgame. Probably because if Rocket said "Hey I have a Moon busting weapon in my pocket lets use that" there wouldn't be a movie. But that just seems like PIS to me.

Okay. Let's wait a bit for a reply to my last post, so I can get some clarifications.

 

[KieranH10]

Is the Power Stone and the full Gauntlet listed as 5-A? I thought that it was much lower.

They are. The Power Stone wipes out objects depending on size, we honestly don't really know if there's a limit to this, but we've seen it destroy planets.

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah, and then Thor with Stormbreaker, and similarly powerful characters, would also be 5-C.

Yeah no

Stormbreaker isn thanos Level and has no scaling to the Stones so it stays where it is

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that you can upgrade Rocket's super-weapon then. I just hope that this will not cause unwarranted upgrades for all the top tiers to 5-C.

 

[Purgy]

Maybe a pre-emptive discussion rule should be made forbidding any attempts at scaling other characters to this? Or a note on the MCU page/Rockets profile?

As long as it only applies to Rocket's AP with the Hadron Enforcer, there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems like a good idea. I am open for suggested wordings of such a rule.

 

[KieranH10]

Please refrain from scaling characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe to the likes of the Hadron Enforcer. The weapon was only ever used on one character, and the feat has been deemed too inconsistent to be considered anything other than an Outlier, with this, scaling characters to this weapon would also cause large issues in scaling throughout the entire verse.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Is the Power Stone and the full Gauntlet listed as 5-A? I thought that it was much lower.

The Power Stone is variable tier and the gauntlet is unknown

 

[Cropfist]

Yeah no

Stormbreaker isn thanos Level and has no scaling to the Stones so it stays where it is

I never understood this.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

idk if it's been resolved but Thanos is only 5-A against large celestial bodies with the Planet Stone because it's stated to be stronger against larger targets

for his regular IG blasts we assume them to be higher than 6-C by an unknown degree, hence Stormbreaker and other stones aren't 5-A

 

[Antvasima]

"Please refrain from scaling characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe to the Hadron Enforcer. The weapon was only ever used on one character, and the feat has been deemed too inconsistent to be considered anything other than an Outlier. Scaling characters to this weapon would also cause too large inconsistencies throughout the entire verse."

Something like this seems mostly fine to me.

 

[Hellbeast]

I never understood this.

Basically the Russo’s mentioned that Stormbreaker was designed to specifically counter the Gauntlet, meaning it’s less it overpowering the blast and more a property of the Axe

"Please refrain from scaling characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe to the Hadron Enforcer. The weapon was only ever used on one character, and the feat has been deemed too inconsistent to be considered anything other than an Outlier. Scaling characters to this weapon would also cause too large inconsistencies throughout the entire verse."

Maybe something like
“Please don’t use the Hadron Enforcer for wider scaling; it was only used on Ronan and that feat is an outlier for him and the wider setting”

Something like this seems mostly fine

It’s good but a bit wordy

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Maybe something like
“Please don’t use the Hadron Enforcer for wider scaling; it was only used on Ronan that feat is an outlier for him and the wider setting”

I think this is a better wording

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I prefer Ant's wording, that wording seem quite messy

 

[Bernkastelll]

If we need to have a wording to doesnt allow the scale, I prefer Ant wording, it seems better

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will apply the new discussions rule then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have added it:

Discussion Rules

VS Battles Wiki is a site where the members attempt to index the statistics of characters across different fictional franchises. These efforts lead to much discussion about certain feats, statements and calculations regarding their validity, reliability, etc. However, certain topics keep popping...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think we're done here now?

 

[Antvasima]

Have the changes been applied to the Rocket Racoon page yet?

 

[Rez]

well, it will go against this scan

Their is a guide book scan literally saying Ronan tanked a hit from a weapon capable of destroying moons so why is this an outliner

 

[Bernkastelll]

Their is a guide book scan literally saying Ronan tanked a hit from a weapon capable of destroying moons so why is this a outliner

No idea.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Their is a guide book scan literally saying Ronan tanked a hit from a weapon capable of destroying moons so why is this a outliner

read the above posts pls

 

[Rez]

I did and they mostly ignored the guidebook point

read the above posts pls