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Moon level Naruto upgrade

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No, you are reading that correctly. Yes, this is a bait. This is an attempt to upgrade base Naruto to 5-C.

Main Argument: Destroying the Tenseigan


While running, Hinata told Naruto about Ootsutsuki Hamura, and how his Tenseigan was moving the moon. They exited the castle, and ran through the entrance to the smaller celestial body. The two arrived in front of the giant Tenseigan.

“So if we destroy this, the moon will stop? Alright! My [Rasengan]…”

As Naruto began to form his [Rasengan], Hinata rushed to stop him.

“No! There’s a curse on this Tenseigan, so if shinobi outside of Hamura’s bloodline touch it, they’ll have their chakra extracted.”

When she spoke, Hinata took her [Gentle Fist] stance. Hinata gathered chakra before both hands, and it began to glow. The flames of chakra looked like the faces of lions. Hinata jumped up.

“[Eight Trigrams Twin Lions Crumbling Attack]!”

She struck the Tenseigan.

Boom!

The Tenseigan pulsed in response to the impact.

Crackle-crackle-crackle-crackle!

However, the pulsing gradually weakened, and the Tenseigan remained unharmed.

“I can’t destroy it,” Hinata murmured with regret.

“What should we do…”
Hamura's Tenseigan was protected for thousands of years by a curse that would instantly drain the Chakra of those who lacked the blood of Hamura, which in this case would be Naruto. Hinata, who is of Hamura's blood, attempted to strike down the Tenseigan, only to be outright rejected, lacking the strength to destroy the superpower.


For a moment, Naruto recalled the night before when he had grabbed Shikamaru by the collar and seen his calm eyes up close. Naruto didn’t have Shikamaru’s level of composure or intelligence. But when it came to jutsu skills, he didn’t lose to Shikamaru.

Right… if neither of us is enough, we’ll compensate for each other!

Hinata could touch the Tenseigan, but she didn’t have enough chakra. On the other hand, Naruto couldn’t touch the Tenseigan, but had a massive amount of chakra… If the two of them combined their strength, he thought they could definitely do it.

“Hinata, infuse me with your chakra! If you do that, we might be able to break this thing!”

“Ok!” Hinata answered with a smile, and the two held hands.

Naruto and Hinata jumped up high. Between their joined hands, his [Rasengan] and her [Eight Trigrams Twin Lions Crumbling Attack] appeared, and they were combined.

“Uooooooohhhh!”

“Haaaaaaaaaaaa!”

They hit the Tenseigan together.

Boom!

There was pulsing incomparable to what had happened before.

Crackle-crackle-crackle-crackle! Crackle-crackle-crackle-crackle!

Finally, Hamura’s Tenseigan gave a big explosion, and was gone.

Just as it was disappearing, Naruto saw tens of thousands of eyeballs scatter. They were all byakugan.

“Hamura’s Tenseigan… was a cluster of Byakugan?” Naruto mumbled, dumbfounded.
Upon realizing Hinata was powerless against Hamura's Tenseigan, he came up with the plan to combine Hinata's ability to touch the Tenseigan with his overwhelming power in order to completely destroy the eye. So, they combined their Chakra, powered up an attack, and crashed into the Tenseigan, with their combined might destroying the eye completely.

Here is the thing: most of this was Naruto's doing.

  1. Hinata herself was not able to even "scratch" Hamura's Tenseigan, let alone damage it; however, after combining her powers with Naruto's, they could destroy it.
  2. The novel explicitly states that the heavy lifting was done by Naruto's own "massive amount of chakra".
This is important because the Tenseigan had the power to push the Moon into the Earth. Naruto implicitly stated that the Tenseigan was the force driving the Moon into the Earth in this very scene, and when the Tenseigan was destroyed, the Moon stopped moving and only continued moving after Toneri awakened his own Tenseigan.

And lastly, Toneri stated that the Chakra of Hamura's Tenseigan was powerful enough to move the Moon into the Earth.

What this means is:

  1. Hamura's Tenseigan's Chakra was so powerful that it could move the Moon and push it into the Earth.
  2. That Chakra was much more powerful than Hinata's, hence why she failed to destroy it.
  3. However, Naruto's Chakra was powerful enough to destroy Hamura's Tenseigan, resulting in the Moon halting, temporarily saving the world.
Naruto > Hamura's Tenseigan = Moon level >>> Hinata.

And, before you attempt to argue that "Naruto borrowed power from Kurama with this attack", no. Nothing, not even the novelization, proves or states that Naruto borrowed Kurama's power. In fact, the novel states this was done with Naruto's own Chakra. And when Naruto borrows power from Kurama, his arm glows the same way his body does in Kurama Chakra Mode, as seen here and here; however, in the initial rescue, in the third confrontation with Toneri (Naruto even says its his Chakra when it is sucked out), and while destroying Hamura's Tenseigan, his arm, which would be golden if he were borrowing Kurama's power, was completely normal.

All excerpts of the The Last: Naruto the Movie novelization come from here.

Secondary Argument: Vs Momoshiki

Naruto briefly battled with Fused Momoshiki in his base form, clashing with him, dodging his attacks, taking his attacks, and reacting to him from close range. On its own, this means nothing, and many would be quick to point out that this scaling does not work, arguing that Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto is comparable to Momoshiki.

However, Naruto and Sasuke were virtually rawdogging him once they got serious, which is further emphasized in the anime, with the two of them literally just knocking Momoshiki around and throwing him across the map once they really got into the battle; and, honestly, the two of them did not even seem like they were giving it their all, as they were laughing and giggling and just screwing around with Momoshiki the entire time; yes, they were serious, but they were obviously not "Jigen serious". Naruto also had his energy drained for quite some time (for reference, the audience of the Chunin Exams had time to black out and then wake up in the hospital), so he obviously was not giving it his all.

So, trying to argue against Naruto closely downscaling from Fused Momoshiki on the basis that Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto is comparable to Fused Momoshiki is moot, considering Six Paths Sage Mode Naruto and Rinne-Sharingan Sasuke were actually portrayed as superior to him.

Tertiary Arguments

Boruto's Ninja Encyclopedia

According to the Ninja Encyclopedia, Naruto possesses a 110 in Strength, whereas Sasuke has a 130, meaning that Naruto is in the same ballpark as him.

The reason this is a tertiary argument, though, is because the Ninja Encyclopedia is incredibly unreliable. For example, Boruto, Sarada, and Mitsuki have Strength values that are nearing those of Naruto and Sasuke, even though they are only Genin at the time. Of course, you could argue that their stats only apply to the other Genin, which is a fair argument. But then, there is also Sakura, who possesses a 100 in Strength, placing her close to the level of Naruto and Sasuke, which obviously is not true.

These Ninja Encyclopedia are all covering these characters in their normal states, unless stated otherwise, like with Ao or Kawaki, so Sakura in her normal state possessing a combat ability in the same range as Sasuke, who would be 5-C at this point, is nonsense, considering with the Byakugan in the Great Ninja War, she was casually intercepted by Dual Rinnegan Madara and could not budge against his Limbo clone, unless you actually consider her punching a distracted Kaguya as a feat worthy to place her there.

Yes, the New Era takes place many years into the future, but Sakura was given the Gohan treatment and has settled down in the Blank Period of peace. She has not trained over the years because she was busy raising a family.

So, take this with a grain of salt.

Conclusions

Adult Naruto scales to 5-C, based on the fact that:
  1. He is more powerful than Hamura's Tenseigan, which is powerful enough to move the Moon.
  2. He could briefly hold his own against a Fused Momoshiki, even after having his energy drained for quite some time.
  3. According to the Ninja Encyclopedia, he possesses strength in the same range as adult Sasuke.
Of course, seeing as how Sage Mode is a ten-times amp, he would scale to 1.99258436 zettatons of tnt or Low 5-B with it, with Kurama Chakra Mode and above, since the Wiki accepts KCM as being superior to Sage Mode, being higher up in the chart.
 
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Agree. The fact that this site genuinely and seriously argues against Momo and Kinshiki > Kaguya off of Sasuke being "unreliable", when he's the only person in the entire world to have even know they existed at that point is just mind numbing. Great job, good CRT.
Lol, I thought I was one of few people who thinks that the new rule of not allowing Momo > Kaguya is weird asf

Yeah I agree with this
 
The novels were also banned around the time the same novels with statements that Kaguya could not oppose Momoshiki
they really hate Boruto characters
also obviously agree with this
would the tenseigan need a calc or would it just be equal to Toneris moon moving
 
I think the main argument is super strong and is well complimented by the secondary argument. The third argument should prolly just be dropped lol, don't those little end chapter Boruto thingies give Choji's daughter a higher strength than Naruto or sumn like that.

It seems pretty cut and dry regarding the main argument.
 
Whom exactly?
spongebobmeme.jpg
No other than KingTempest.
spongebobmeme.jpg
 
There's a meme that I can't find that would be perfect for all these countless Naruto threads being made. I guess it's easier to say you people are... annoying relentless.

In regards to the OP, I guess it's fine? I'm not good with scaling in regards to Naruto (especially god tiers) but the OP looks ok.
Agree. The fact that this site genuinely and seriously argues against Momo and Kinshiki > Kaguya off of Sasuke being "unreliable", when he's the only person in the entire world to have even known they existed at that point is just mind numbing. Great job, good CRT.
I believe this was more so due to the poor method in which people were explaining it in the past. For example, the main reason LS Haku wasn't accepted before was because no one did a good job explaining it, they just said Haku in general was light speed because... [insert reason here] and didn't care to debunk any counter arguments. However when you look now Lightspeed Haku via mirrors is accepted, existence erasure for TSB is accepted and so on. This is because unlike the previous attempts in the past, you guys actually put effort into explaining "why this means this".

(This next part isn't directed at anyone here specifically) It bothers me to see people just assume we downplay/hate Naruto in general when it's more so the countless changes people want to implement regarding how the characters scale has resulted in people having split opinions when regarding these topics which would cause some people to agree or disagree with something and drag it into a stalemate or cause a rule to be created.

Anyway, I apologize to the OP for this little rant. My intention was not to derail but to explain why certain things are the way they are currently. I will say you guys are doing an amazing job in regards to majority of the threads that have been created so far and it's a lot better than the previous threads in the past.
 
There's a meme that I can't find that would be perfect for all these countless Naruto threads being made. I guess it's easier to say you people are... annoying relentless.

In regards to the OP, I guess it's fine? I'm not good with scaling in regards to Naruto (especially god tiers) but the OP looks ok.

I believe this was more so due to the poor method in which people were explaining it in the past. For example, the main reason LS Haku wasn't accepted before was because no one did a good job explaining it, they just said Haku in general was light speed because... [insert reason here] and didn't care to debunk any counter arguments. However when you look now Lightspeed Haku via mirrors is accepted, existence erasure for TSB is accepted and so on. This is because unlike the previous attempts in the past, you guys actually put effort into explaining "why this means this".

(This next part isn't directed at anyone here specifically) It bothers me to see people just assume we downplay/hate Naruto in general when it's more so the countless changes people want to implement regarding how the characters scale has resulted in people having split opinions when regarding these topics which would cause some people to agree or disagree with something and drag it into a stalemate or cause a rule to be created.

Anyway, I apologize to the OP for this little rant. My intention was not to derail but to explain why certain things are the way they are currently. I will say you guys are doing an amazing job in regards to majority of the threads that have been created so far and it's a lot better than the previous threads in the past.
I understand. I like the way you went about responding to me, makes me enjoy what this site is about, and how things change.
 
So I wanted to go a line down but I pressed "post reply" shortcut by accident.
he's here
Remind me to remove that feature from my account.
SupremeMRK gonna have fun with this.

Like, totally love it, even more with the 10x multiplier.

Dude must have a hate boner right now.
Whom exactly?
spongebobmeme.jpg
No other than KingTempest.
spongebobmeme.jpg
KingTempest is everyone's favorite goofy goober.
I never imagined Tempest’s day job was dressing up as a peanut at an ice cream parlor, I thought he would talk on the street to scared pedestrians about how KCM Naruto is fodder.
Yes.

I'm going to sleep right after this so I'll reply to everything pertaining to this tomorrow.
Anyways.

I obviously agree with 5-C base Naruto. I've advocated for this for weeks-months and people have said "ehhhh idk, makes scaling weird" and such, which I clearly didn't care about.
I'm surprised you didn't add the feats against Delta and Isshiki there, or use the fact that Base Naruto EOS could clash against rinnegan Sasuke w/ even the anime adding more on top of it, but I digress.

I disagree with one thing, and that's the Tenseigan bs.
No, you are reading that correctly. Yes, this is a bait. This is an attempt to upgrade base Naruto to 5-C.

Main Argument: Destroying the Tenseigan



Hamura's Tenseigan was protected for thousands of years by a curse that would instantly drain the Chakra of those who lacked the blood of Hamura, which in this case would be Naruto. Hinata, who is of Hamura's blood, attempted to strike down the Tenseigan, only to be outright rejected, lacking the strength to destroy the superpower.



Upon realizing Hinata was powerless against Hamura's Tenseigan, he came up with the plan to combine Hinata's ability to touch the Tenseigan with his overwhelming power in order to completely destroy the eye. So, they combined their Chakra, powered up an attack, and crashed into the Tenseigan, with their combined might destroying the eye completely.

Here is the thing: most of this was Naruto's doing.

  1. Hinata herself was not able to even "scratch" Hamura's Tenseigan, let alone damage it; however, after combining her powers with Naruto's, they could destroy it.
  2. The novel explicitly states that the heavy lifting was done by Naruto's own "massive amount of chakra".
This is important because the Tenseigan had the power to push the Moon into the Earth. Naruto implicitly stated that the Tenseigan was the force driving the Moon into the Earth in this very scene, and when the Tenseigan was destroyed, the Moon stopped moving and only continued moving after Toneri awakened his own Tenseigan.

And lastly, Toneri stated that the Chakra of Hamura's Tenseigan was powerful enough to move the Moon into the Earth.

What this means is:

  1. Hamura's Tenseigan's Chakra was so powerful that it could move the Moon and push it into the Earth.
  2. That Chakra was much more powerful than Hinata's, hence why she failed to destroy it.
  3. However, Naruto's Chakra was powerful enough to destroy Hamura's Tenseigan, resulting in the Moon halting, temporarily saving the world.
Naruto > Hamura's Tenseigan = Moon level >>> Hinata.

And, before you attempt to argue that "Naruto borrowed power from Kurama with this attack", no. Nothing, not even the novelization, proves or states that Naruto borrowed Kurama's power. In fact, the novel states this was done with Naruto's own Chakra. And when Naruto borrows power from Kurama, his arm glows the same way his body does in Kurama Chakra Mode, as seen here and here; however, in the initial rescue, in the third confrontation with Toneri (Naruto even says its his Chakra when it is sucked out), and while destroying Hamura's Tenseigan, his arm, which would be golden if he were borrowing Kurama's power, was completely normal.

Conclusions

Adult Naruto scales to 5-C, based on the fact that:
  1. He is more powerful than Hamura's Tenseigan, which is powerful enough to move the Moon.

Yeah no, let's go back to the root of the problem.
They didn't destroy the Tenseigan. They didn't even touch the Tenseigan. They touched the container that held the Tenseigan.

Let's look at your quote shall we?
Just as it was disappearing, Naruto saw tens of thousands of eyeballs scatter. They were all byakugan.

“Hamura’s Tenseigan... was a cluster of Byakugan?”
Yes. The Tenseigan was a cluster of Byakugan. Proven by the movie that shows that the Tenseigan was a cluster of Byakugan.
ukw08J0.jpg


Why am I focusing on this?
What they destroyed was not the Tenseigan, it was the container of the Tenseigan.

Every time a chakra based being is absorbed, destroyed, etc, they get smaller in size.
kQd8qeO.png


So in the case of this, if it was a full chakra construct, it should've been getting smaller throughout the movie, but instead it was stagnant.

What they destroyed was the container that held the Tenseigan, which has no valid reason at all to scale to the chakra output of the entire Tenseigan.
You don't scale to the joule output of a battery by destroying the case that holds it.

Another issue is that it seemed to be a chain reaction. It was hit by the 8 trigrams rasengan and not a single crack. Instead it started to flicker, then it pushed out all the byakugans.

The novel says it exploded
They hit the Tenseigan together.
Boom!
There was pulsing incomparable to what had happened before.
Crackle-crackle-crackle-crackle!Crackle-crackle-crackle-crackle!
Finally, Hamura’s Tenseigan gave a big explosion, and was gone.
Just as it was disappearing, Naruto saw tens of thousands of eyeballs scatter. They were all byakugan.
“Hamura’s Tenseigan... was a cluster of Byakugan?” Naruto mumbled, dumbfounded.

So yeah, do I agree with 5-C base? Ofc. Do I agree with that reasoning? No.
 
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