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Monika Downgrades

Serpent just because YOU cant deal with the fact a highschool girl is tier 2 doesnt make it any less truth.


Your argument is purely based around the incredulity of the situation. She can fully manipulate HER world and though she is self aware it is still a World to her and from the perspective of her being it would be 3d. Thus she is manipulating and destorye her entire "game"/ universe.
 
AquaWaifu said:
Serpent just because YOU cant deal with the fact a highschool girl is tier 2 doesnt make it any less truth.

Your argument is purely based around the incredulity of the situation. She can fully manipulate HER world and though she is self aware it is still a World to her and from the perspective of her being it would be 3d. Thus she is manipulating and destorye her entire "game"/ universe.
Click to expand...
it still is a 2d world

and saying its just 4th wall breaking is like saying undertales save/file as 4th wall breaking


its a... no, THE plotpoint and all theplot goes around that
 
so is literally all of fiction.

making her tier 11 would just be ridiculous just because she is aware of being "in a game"
 
How would it be absurd? We don't know how mcuch effect she has outside her game world.


Okay so forget Tier 11. What about Tier 3? What makes her just a Tier 2 character?
 
AquaWaifu said:
so is literally all of fiction.
making her tier 11 would just be ridiculous just because she is aware of being "in a game"
Click to expand...
it is part of her lore to be a game, not all fiction claims itself to be so and it doesent revolve around it
 
Dreaming Serpent said:
How would it be absurd? We don't know how mcuch effect she has outside her game world.

Okay so forget Tier 11. What about Tier 3? What makes her just a Tier 2 character?
Click to expand...
And we dont know how much Superman can affect outside of comics but we arent going to make him tier 11 any time soon.

She destroyed and recreated save files, which are treated as entire timelines
 
AquaWaifu said:
incredulity
Click to expand...
Maybe so lol. But I'm not going to just agree with something I don't understand. Even an idiot like me can understand arguements that I don't agree with.

(Daredevil being MHS for one)

But I really REALLY like Doki Doki and I feel like the page doesn't depict the series accurately. It's all up to interpretation of course but I don't see anywhere or anyone else with the exception of this page that would fathom her just being a 2C.

Again, if I'm wrong I apologize and I can take an L. I don't mind, I've taken worse Ls before. I just want to understand why someone would come down to a conclusion like this. It seems like a bit of a high ball here.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Dreaming Serpent said:
How would it be absurd? We don't know how mcuch effect she has outside her game world.

Okay so forget Tier 11. What about Tier 3? What makes her just a Tier 2 character?
Click to expand...
And we dont know how much Superman can affect outside of comics but we arent going to make him tier 11 any time soon.
She destroyed and recreated save files, which are treated as entire timelines
Click to expand...
supermans charachter isnt litiraly constucted on being a comic book characters, monikas is


so we're gonna ignore statements, the lore and litiraly the concept of the game itself
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Dreaming Serpent said:
How would it be absurd? We don't know how mcuch effect she has outside her game world.

Okay so forget Tier 11. What about Tier 3? What makes her just a Tier 2 character?
Click to expand...
And we dont know how much Superman can affect outside of comics but we arent going to make him tier 11 any time soon.
She destroyed and recreated save files, which are treated as entire timelines
Click to expand...
As stated before, the property and Universe of Comic Books is so contradictory to me that I don't see a big deal of trying to have our cake and eat it.

The problem with this though is that the whole point and main crux of the story is that they all exist within the confines of Dating Sim. That's the whole thesis here for the story, it's straightforward. So this idea that she can somehow be classified as a Reality Warper is two steps below crazy.

That would mean any computer virus that exists within a game would be classified as Tier 2 or 3 threat. What is this?
 
Well, if the entire verse is supposed to be a game, and anything outside of it is supposed to be the "true" real world, i don't see why she can't be Tier 2, considering that in this case, anything outside of "The Game" would be nothing more than the "True Real World", while the game itself is her entire verse, rather than an in-universe game being played by in-universe real-world humans
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Is it bad that i genuinely cant tell if theyre joking or being serious...?
Click to expand...
I guess when you get a measuring system that works 'Well Enough" it's not like having it questioned helps.

Sarcasm aside, I feel like the main issue here is singnificant enough to discuss. Is it really that hard? She exists in a game. It's established that the game was made was made by a person, not a Godhead, a person. Right there, claims of her being a 2C should be called into question.

But again, my stupid opinion right?
 
@Dreaming Literally every fictional character and verse on this entire website was "Made by a person". What youre arguing is basically for everything fictional to be classified as tier 11
 
No, she is not going to be tier 11. Get over it, you're wrong and using faulty logic for your reasonings.
 
I'm against this.

From what appears on her profile, Monika's ability to interact with the fabric of her game is no different from Wicca, Captain Adam, and Gwenpool seeing and manipulating the events of comic books the way a human would.

To Monika, she is completely interacting with her verse's space-time. While it's obviously meant to be fake to us, it is real to her.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Dreaming Literally every fictional character and verse on this entire website was "Made by a person". What youre arguing is basically for everything fictional to be classified as tier 11
Click to expand...
im arguing that the lore and statements and everything else uis being ignored
 
Not remotely what I'm asking. But in Universe it's the main point. It's not like I'm playing Mortal Kombat and I'm reminded that Ed Boon constructed the 6 Realms together out of nothing. That's not in Universe. This is in Universe.
 
Reppuzan said:
I'm against this.
From what appears on her profile, Monika's ability to interact with the fabric of her game is no different from Wicca, Captain Adam, and Gwenpool seeing and manipulating the events of comic books the way a human would.

To Monika, she is completely interacting with her verse's space-time. While it's obviously meant to be fake to us, it is real to her.
Click to expand...
Well when you put it like that :p Hmmm...
 
Alright, for the sake of consistancy since Wiccan and Captain Adam were brought in and high Tier characters I'll fold. While i'm generally not down with the idea all the way there's at least enough reasoning to put her on that level so I'll take the L :)
 
I hope you have not taken it badly, I do not think that you are probably much smarter than me, I hope I did not offend you
 
The problem here is defining Monika's "Universe". Is her Universe the story of the dating sim, or is her universe the computer the dating sim is on? Is she a transcendental god, or is she just a self-aware artificial intelligence? Well... both.

((There's an important distinction I'd like to clarify, to make my explanation easier: "Doki Doki Literature Club" is both the title of the real game, and the title of a dating sim that exists within the real game's universe. When I say "the dating sim", I'm referring to that in-universe dating sim .))

We could define her universe as the dating sim. In that case then she is definitely Low 2C. She was capable of reaching far higher tiers, technically. Had she mastered ren'py, she would've been able to alter the dating sim's plot just as well as its actual programmers, and even make entirely new games separate from the dating sim. But she never reached that point. The best she got to was Low 2C - able to alter every detail of the dating sim, and reset it completely, but not quite keep it stable in the process.

Or we could define her universe as the real game. This would mean defining her as a self-aware artificial intelligence. Contrary to what other people here are suggesting, this wouldn't make her an 11-A. The 2D image of her is just an asset she uses to represent herself to the player, and it would be a mistake to think it was actually her. Her real "body" is patterns of electrons on a computer's circuits. Electrons are point particles, so she'd be 11-C. This is the most canon answer, technically. But it's also the most useless. If we purely define her as a self-aware computer program that only exists in digital space on systems running the dating sim, then it's impossible to even run VS battles against her. Her only viable opponents would be other AI, or real people from the real world; and we don't know enough about her capabilities as an AI to do so anyway. The only feat we'd have to go on is that she can survive conventional deletion.

Both definitions make sense.

Personally, I'd like to stick to how she is now. I can't imagine any matchup involving Tier 11 Monika, that would be interesting enough to bother with. But barring that, I side with RageComment's suggestion - give her a Low 2C (Character) | 11-C (AI) key.

  • The 2C version is her as a character inside the dating sim, and her battles are done as if her opponent exists inside the dating sim too. That is to say, her 2C-style powers work in the first place. This is how she is now.
  • The 11-C version is her as an AI. She's 11-C relative to another AI on the computer, or relative to someone sitting at that computer, etc. This version would lack all of her powers but Non-Corporeal and Data Manipulation.
If any of you can even come up with a context to use the Tier 11 interpretation of Monika in, I'd be interested to hear it.
 
If she is tier 11 it would also put her in The Real World verse and the weakest character irl. So basically her reality warping powers is game mechanics.
 
He's not wrong though. The whole point of the game is that the characters are scripted to fall in love with you because it is a dating simulator. However, Monika somehow gained the power to realize that she is just a program after being the president and realize that she can never escape into the real world so she would rather die until she met "you". During the part with only you and Monika together, you can simply close the game and she would freak out and ask you not to quit the game. She is pretty helpless if you ask me.

Putting two keys makes much more sense. However, I don't think "The Player" should have his own page because it's literally us. If we're talking about the character "The Player" in the game however, he shouldn't have that high of a tier at all since he speaks according to the script and act according to the script. It is us who are able to manipulate the files, not "The Player" in the game.
 
If Cosmic Armor Superman powers are considered valid, which literally work based on altering the plot of the comic books, then so does Monika.
 
RealityWarper said:
If Cosmic Armor Superman powers are considered valid, which literally work based on altering the plot of the comic books, then so does Monika.
Click to expand...
its not the plot manupulation, its the lore itself+purpose of the game
 
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