Momoshiki's Speed & Reflexes Bump

[OnlineLurker]

In the new boruto chapter, they adapted momoshiki's feat from the movie(there's some minor differences, but nothing noteworthy) where sasuke teleports behind momo closely but gets knocked aside. Do note this momoshiki seemed to have gotten a powerup as the manga has stated the chakra pills he takes increases his power. Which may very well enhance his overall stats going how he went from putting base naruto on the defense(and somewhat outmatching naruto) to being able to react & knocking sasuke aside despite switching places with his kusanagi blade, which was near momoshiki. Should this be mentioned or not?

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Again...

Base Naruto = Can React To Sasuke

Momoshiki = Comparable to Sasuke

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Base Naruto can React to Momoshiki

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Base Naruto has MHS+ Reaction and Combat Speed.

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Naruto needs an upgrade actually. His Base should be listed as At Least Country Level, Likely Higher (Cite The Last Feat) / Unknown (Supplied the Chakra that killed an Enhanced Momoshiki)

______________________________

There should be a note about Chakra Control on all pages.

 

[OnlineLurker]

This thread isn't even about naruto.....

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

This thread isn't even about naruto.....

Ok, but he still scales. Momoshiki won't be getting a Buff. He was killed by a weakened Base Naruto. It's faulty to assume he's stronger than he was previously. He's just stronger than he was after absorbing the Kotei Chakra from the scientist which wouldn't be enough to boost him back to as strong as he was after absorbing Kinshiki.

 

[OnlineLurker]

Did you miss the part where he took chakra pills? Which is presumably kurama's chakra? Anyways, It's been stated the pills increases his power. He even gains a chakra aura after taking em', complete with cliche powerup screaming and all. Besides, he still kicked sasuke aside despite sasuke switching places with his sword. Sasuke did a similar thing back at vote 2, with RSM naruto but naruto could only block his attack. If you really think base naruto would do the same thing in momoshiki's position then you're really overrating him.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Did Momoshiki use his Lava Golem?

 

[OnlineLurker]

Did Momoshiki use his Lava Golem?

Last chapter yeah, It overpowered kurama avatar actually.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Momoshiki is such a disappointment. I just hope the Father and Son Rasengan was used the same way it was in the movie so its speed can be calculated.

 

[OnlineLurker]

I agree, he had big hype but was a let down. And no, he got launched through the shinju stomp and explodes. The explosion did look a bit bigger in the manga though.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Yes, momoshiki took the pills and they increase his power. Here is the thing:

• How much it enhanced him is unknown

• He got got overpowered and Killed by a weakened Base Naruto's Chakra.

Now while, Chakra Control is a Thing, If you want to assume Momoshiki is stronger than first transforming or even equal in power, then you're also saying that Naruto from Chapter 9 in Boruto is Superior to VoTE 2 SPSM Naruto. Which in turn leads to Faulty Power Scaling.


We can tell he isn't getting a buff for 2 reasons:

1.) Momoshiki tanked Serious Hits from the same weakened Naruto and overpowered him with his Golem.

2.) Momoshiki powers up and gets overpowered and Killed with a slightly more exhausted Naruto's chakra.

So....Basing it off Sasuke doesn't mean anything especially since Naruto could react still even ln base.

 

[OnlineLurker]

What the heck does the power of his jutsu have anything to do with his speed/reflexes? I don't even know how you came to that conclusion at all. You're trying so hard to make base naruto stronger than he seems.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Momoshiki could react to Sasuke regardless. You're emphasizing the pills which boosts all his stats power included. So yes, if Momoshiki is able to fight on par with Sasuke due to a power buff, then his jutsu would also be comparable.

Momo knocking Sasuke away is not cause for a Buff. Base Naruto could Already react to Sasuke and Momoshiki bested Base Naruto which already puts him in the position to react to Sasuke. So what buff are you trying to get?

 

[OnlineLurker]

Base naruto only reacted to sasuke's leap from the statue, not shunshin. This was in the past anyways, why do you assume it still holds up now? Show me proof of adult base naruto reacting to sasuke's combat speed then i'll concede. Base naruto is defintely not mimicking momoshiki's feat. It seems like you have no clue what feat i'm talking about so i'll post it,

Feat

Feat 2


Compared to

Feat 1

Feat 2


I get it, hagoromo's chakra is potent af. Plus adding ashura/naruto's chakra into the mix? It may as well be superior than momo's chakra. I mean, sasuke even said RSM naruto could easily obliterate momo's strongest attack shown on panel.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

Dude, your biggest Mistake is assuming Sasuke did or didn't use Shunshin. The only thing we know is that he was Bloodlusted. So your entire argument is invalid simply based on that. The scene shows that Naruto can react to Sasuke who intends to Kill him.

Also, we don't need scenes of Adult Sasuke vs Naruto, you think your slick but Golden Byakugan Momo (At Least) ~ Kinshiki ~ Sasuke Physically Not to mention the initial clash with Momo and Naruto is a straight up homage to Naruto and Sasuke's initial Clash.

So all in All, Momoshiki shouldn't be as strong as Chapter 8 Momo. The logic makes sense as for why.

 

[OnlineLurker]

Can we get a second opinion on this?

 

[Antvasima]

I am not knowledgeable enough about Naruto to make an evaluation, but we cannot scale statistics retroactively to teenage Naruto. The adult version is likely considerably stronger. Perhaps a separate profile for adult Naruto might be in order?

 

[DodoNova2]

Yes,It's better I think

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i agree with Ant, adult naruto profile would be best and as for momoshiki getting a upgrade, no i dont agree with it, as the amount his power increased is unknown, we cant scale and upgrade him on speculation either, he should stay the way he is.

 

[OnlineLurker]

I was aiming for something that noted the differences in momo's speed/reflexes between this chapter and the previous one. Momo in the last chapter pressured base naruto, but now he's got the reflexes & fast enough to deter and knock away sasuke's ameno attack. Something rsm naruto could only block at the final battle in the main series. I cant be the only one who sees this? I just mentioned the chakra pills as the likely reason why he could do something like that now.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Um, why's there a need for a profile for Adult Naruto? He already has a separate key for his adult form. And the focus of the manga will be shifting to Boruto which means Kawaki will probably be Naruto's final major opponent. So I don't think there's a need for a profile for Adult Naruto.

Also, where was Adult Naruto being considerably superior to his teenage self stated?

 

[DodoNova2]

I do not know, may have imagined that it has become stronger with age or that it is "rusting" since the war arc...

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

It's not stated but it is shown.He survived the country level explosion that his chakra caused without much damage, he battled Sasuke and defeated him while he was in base also he tanked a hit from Momoshiki.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

When did Adult Naruto fight Sasuke? I've not really read Boruto but did they somehow fight there?


Anyway, Teen Naruto is Small Planet at his peak. I think whatever his adult version does will still scale to him. For example, if Naruto uses Chō Ōdama Rasengan to destroy a star, it would scale to Madara, Hagoromo and Kaguya. Teen Naruto received half of Hagoromo's chakra, kept up with Madara comfortably, tanked several attacks from Kaguya and flew through multiple of her Eighty Goes Vacuum Palm thingy without any problem and injured her with his final attack. Sasuke essentially absorbed the same Bijuu that Madara and Kaguya contained. Meanwhile Adult Naruto was knocked out by Momoshiki's attack. I'm not saying that Teen Naruto is superior to his adult counterpart, just that if Adult Naruto is superior, it isn't to the extent that they can't scale to each other. Except if Adult Naruto is specifically stated to be superior to Hagoromo or something (maybe in a new mode), they would still be around the same tier.


Essentially what I think is that if Adult Naruto can be scaled back to Hagoromo or Kaguya, Teen Naruto and Sasuke would still scale. So I don't think a new profile for Adult Naruto is really necessary. It's not like he showcased new abilities or something. Just a separate key like he already has is fine in my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, adult Naruto also has several forms, and age usually means progression of power in shonen manga.

If we start to retroactively scale his teenage state from his adult self for some of the forms, it would cause severe inconsistency.

As such, I would prefer to have a separate profile for adult Naruto, much like we separate teenage and adult Goku.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

yeah, i personally dont think we can scale him off shippuden Era, and it would be easier aswell as naruto also has a huge amount of keys,

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Wait, I don't understand. Teen Naruto still had some of Hagoromo's power. And if Adult Naruto has a Star level feat, it would still scale to Hagoromo, right? If so, I don't see the problem. The thing is that if whatever Naruto does scales to Hagoromo, it would still scale to his teenage self. For example, if Madara Kaguya and Hagoromo get upgraded to Star level, but Naruto and Sasuke remain at Moon+ level, it would look, well strange. Because they can't be weaker to that extent. And Sasuke absorbed the same Bijuu they had, so they can't remain at that level if Madara is Star level. Basically, what I think is that if it scales back to the God Tiers, it would still apply to Teen Sasuke and Naruto. I know that timeskips can result in big jumps of power, and backwards scaling is preferably avoided in this kind of issues, but since they received half of Hagoromo's power, they would still get the scaling in some form.

But I'm fine if they don't. Would this mean Adult Sasuke would also have a profile?

Also, what should we do with Momoshiki?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it would likely cause too many inconsistencies, given that Naruto's base form seems to be stronger now.

I do not think that we have enough feats for adult Sasuke.

Kkapoios mentioned in another thread that given Momoshiki's comparatively lacklustre performance, we shouldn't scale him as higher than currently.

 

[DodoNova2]

Can one deduce that naruto has reached a "possible" sub relativistic speed in Adult BSM?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

not yet, until he shows a feat that puts him at that speed he will still be MHS+

 

[DodoNova2]

okay

 

[OnlineLurker]

I don't want to be that guy, but can this whole "another profile for adult naruto" business have its own thread? Maybe that'll attract more replies than this thread. Besides, this thread wasn't about naruto in the first place. Aside from that, what happened to themightyregulator?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose thst a separate thread would be in order.

TMR seems to consider some of the Naruto threads stupid and not worth his time nowadays.

What upgrades are you currently pushing for?

 

[OnlineLurker]

You talking about momoshiki or naruto? If it's momoshiki then, i guess you could possibly say this is an upgrade in a sense. Even though this was shown in the movie first, but the manga is a bit different. I'll update the title too, it does seem misleading. This "upgrade" applies to momo's speed & reflexes now. I'll use keywords like pre-CP and CP, CP is just shorten for chakra pills.

Pre-CP Super Momoshiki- Put adult Base naruto on the defense & Outmatches him a few times.

CP super Momoshiki- Look at the links i posted from yesterday. He has reflexes & speed on par or above war arc RSM naruto. I'm pretty sure we can agree war arc RSM is superior than base hokage naruto in speed and stuff, right?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so, yes.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

That's faulty though. Unlike Momoshiki, Naruto was focusing on blocking a Prior Attack. He still reacted to Sasuke.

Momoshiki's Stats wouldn't be affected by smacking Sasuke being as a Base Naruto could already react.


Sasuke, RSM Naruto and Momoshiki ofcourse have far Superior Reaction and Travel speed, its just Base Naruto has Reaction and Combat Speed that allows him to Evade and Defend against their Combat Speed.


Yes the pills would give Momoshiki a boost in stats, but saying he's able to react to Sasuke only because of them is false.

 

[OnlineLurker]

Momoshiki had to react & duck down from sasuke throwing his katana at him while holding a giant rasengan. So, he wasn't exactly inaction prior to that feat. Besides, naruto has immense sensing powers so there's really no excuse. No, naruto isn't reacting to rsm naruto or sasuke's shunshin. Reacting to sasuke's leap isn't the same as reacting to his shunshin speed, no matter how many times you bring up sasuke having intent to kill.

Need i remind you that sasuke was fast enough to cut Juubi jin madara in half? Madara even praised sasuke's speed. Now, you think the weakest version of naruto could react to the strongest version of himself? RSM naruto was able to blitz a weakened kaguya, who dodged sasuke's attacks without much difficulty. Stop overestimating base naruto.


Well, feats say otherwise.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

........what is the point of this thread exactly?

 

[OnlineLurker]

I'm trying to prove momoshiki in this chapter got a speed & reflexes upgrade compared to his performance in the previous chapter. I mean, it's not really new since he did the same thing in the movie but his peformance against naruto & sasuke in the manga is inferior to the movie version of the fight. However, this feat adapted from the movie, gives momo speed & reflexes as great or better than war arc RSM naruto.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Upgrade to WHAT?

They are MHS+ and he is MHS+.