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Momoshiki Downgrade and/or Base Naruto Upgrade?

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Heatforce said:
A little late to the party here but I think it should be established that yes, Naruto is indeed stronger in his base form now. Naruto has complete Kurama inside of him afterall.
Click to expand...
That's what the current post sixth paths base key is for and I don't think powerscaling base Naruto to a character who's power level is in constant flux is a good idea.

@Barry you've told me nothing new.
 
That's what the current post sixth paths base key is for and I don't think powerscaling base Naruto to a character who's power level is in constant flux is a good idea.

@Barry you've told me nothing new.

So that's what his stats are gonna look like?

Also, this is off topic but is this a Chidori Punch or just the Hitting thing that Mangaka do?

18
 
It's just a special effect and no. You haven't explained why the scene isn't PIS. You just posted the PIS scene.

Let's wait until the next release so we don't make changes prematurely.
 
Well what about Momoshiki not wanting to kill Naruto? He and Kinshiki wanted to capture him so they could take Kurama's chakra so even with the benefit of the doubt, it makes sense how Base Naruto could fight against them as they would be clearly holding back to keep him alive and not accidently kill him.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Well what about Momoshiki not wanting to kill Naruto? He and Kinshiki wanted to capture him so they could take Kurama's chakra so even with the benefit of the doubt, it makes sense how Base Naruto could fight against them as they would be clearly holding back to keep him alive and not accidently kill him.
Click to expand...
Momoshiki wants to kill him now though, at least according to the scan i posted. Besides, why would they hold back against naruto? At least taijutsu wise.
 
@OnlineLurker: Well, perhaps Momoshiki held back because if Naruto dies then Kurama would reincarnate somewhere else and that would just be more work lol.
 
OnlineLurker said:
Momoshiki wants to kill him now though, at least according to the scan i posted. Besides, why would they hold back against naruto? At least taijutsu wise.
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I doubt it. Maybe he came at Naruto with the strength TO kill him without actually killing him. Like how the Akatsuki caught the Jinchuriki. They came at them as IF they were going to kill them but not seriously kill them. Might be the same thing here. And as for why, well Heatforce has that handled.

Also now that I remember did Naruto in base match Momoshiki with Taijutsu? Because if so then that doesnt mean Momoshiki is weaker either since Taijutsu is what is most effective against him and Kinshiki given they can easily counter Ninjutsu.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I doubt it. Maybe he came at Naruto with the strength TO kill him without actually killing him. Like how the Akatsuki caught the Jinchuriki. They came at them as IF they were going to kill them but not seriously kill them. Might be the same thing here. And as for why, well Heatforce has that handled.

Also now that I remember did Naruto in base match Momoshiki with Taijutsu? Because if so then that doesnt mean Momoshiki is weaker either since Taijutsu is what is most effective against him and Kinshiki given they can easily counter Ninjutsu.
Click to expand...
He friggin said "and now you die!". It doesn't get any clearer than that. Why momoshiki suddenly wants to kill naruto now, is anyone's guess. Yes, naruto did but that's the problem, in the movie naruto needed to be in RSM to combat & get the upperhand on momoshiki with sasuke. The point i'm trying to make is momoshiki went from being able to combat RSM naruto & sasuke together to a certain degree, to barely outmatching base naruto in the manga. It makes no sense if he was holding back his speed & strength against naruto at this point.

I hope someone at least tries to understand my point after all this time.
 
Naruto would had died if Momoshiki had finished absorbing his chakra, and successfully extracted the nine tails from him.
 
AppleLord said:
Naruto would had died if Momoshiki had finished absorbing his chakra, and successfully extracted the nine tails from him.
Click to expand...
Eh, i always assumed he was directly absorbing the nine tails chakra. not narutos.
 
You're saying Barely outmatched Base Naruto when Naruto in Base was overwhelmed quite easily. And again Base Naruto could already react to Juubi-Jin level characters. So why are you acting like Base Naruto was supposed to be stomped like the other Kage?

@TMR

Its really simple.

1. Momoshiki wasn't trying to Kill Naruto

2. Naruto Allowed it to happen.
 
BarryAllen2.0 said:
You're saying Barely outmatched Base Naruto when Naruto in Base was overwhelmed quite easily. And again Base Naruto could already react to Juubi-Jin level characters. So why are you acting like Base Naruto was supposed to be stomped like the other Kage?
Click to expand...
"overwhelmed quite easily" yet can react, dodge & block his punches with no signs of stress. Momoshiki only managed to kick him, that's why i said barely outmatch. I really don't feel like going around in circles about this any longer, so i'll just go with whatever TheMightyRegulator said.
 
There is no going in circles, just pay attention to the Manga. Unless Momoshiki is supposed to be faster than Sasuke which he isn't in any medium, then Naruto can easily react based on feats. Its not hard to understand, you're just blowing this out of proportion. Stop please.
 
BarryAllen2.0 said:
There is no going in circles, just pay attention to the Manga. Unless Momoshiki is supposed to be faster than Sasuke which he isn't in any medium, then Naruto can easily react based on feats. Its not hard to understand, you're just blowing this out of proportion. Stop please.
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Yes, it is. I have to keep stating why manga momoshiki's taijutsu performance isn't as good as his movie feats. The movie portrayed sasuke & RSM naruto as having a similair speed, hell all three of them had similair speed & strength feats. Yet you people keep making it seem like there's no difference between base & RSM naruto in speed & strength wise. I'm honestly fine if you cap momoshiki at vote2 sasuke's speed or slightly above, but it should be mentioned that he was formerly at adult RSM naruto's speed tier. or no mention is fine.
 
I'm from the Naruto wiki and Momoshiki's words might be an error and probably will be corrected in tankobon version, it happens sometimes in the first realeases in chapters. Here's a link in a prominent example where Naruto had his Six Paths Yang power on his right palm despite disapearing when he made the Six Paths: Chibaku Tensei.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Momoshiki_and_Kinshiki!!


Also it isn't PIS. Some of us noted that it was weird that Sasuke could keep up with Naruto in SPSM in the movie without the use of his Susanoo, given that Naruto could easily dodge Madara's Speed of Light jutsu at almost point blank range (not making this up)

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sage_Art:_Storm_Release_Light_Fang
 
We would need the raw & a expericed translator to confirm that. Yeah i did find that weird at first as well, then i just wrote it off as naruto not using his strongest form( he used six paths chakra with just kurama chakra) and/or not being in top physical shape because of being the hokage. I can't explain how sasuke seemingly matched naruto's physical blows, unless hashirama dna gives one that much of a phyiscal upgrade. The manga seemed to be more consistent though, at least regarding sasuke & naruto.

Example how momoshiki couldn't even block RSM naruto's kick & elbow strike, naruto's kick made momoshiki do reverse somersaults in the air. When sasuke came behind momoshiki, momo reacted at the last second but got sent flying. He actually recovered from sasuke's punch rather easily though. My point is the manga depicted naruto as the faster & physical stronger one just like in the war arc. apologies for going off topic though.
 
We already know RSM Naruto is superior to Base Naruto. It's already established that Momoshiki wasn't trying to Kill Naruto (at least before Katatsuke revitalized momo). In the Book/Movie And now Manga, Momoshiki has never been superior in speed to Sasuke Which Base Naruto can react to. What does this mean? Base Naruto is gonna be able to react and defend against a character like Momoshiki who isn't trying to Kill him.

Case in point. Momoshiki is still ~ RSM Naruto and Sasuke individually. This simply showed why Naruto is above the other kages. So much so it's embarrassing.
 
It looks to me more like Six Paths chakra gives enhanced overall stats for the base form of a person. The chakra cloak now only gives strength and durability boost, and maybe some negligible speed boost if any at all.

Not that I can prove any of that, just speculating.

It's my headcanon on why base Naruto = base Sasuke (Sasuke has no power up mode) in physical stats, but Sasuke won't engage RSM Naruto in taijutsu and would dodge and back away and use his myriad of jutsus instead. He'd get outmuscled, but not necessarily outsped since he still managed to swap with RSM Naruto's Gudodama for a Chidori to the face.
 
Base Naruto isn't MHS+ in Travel speed like the God Tiers. He's MHS with MHS+ Reaction and combat speed. Which he has shown 3 times now:

  • Vs Sasuke
  • Vs Toneri
  • Vs Momoshiki
His forms (SM, KCM, KCSM, BM, BSM, Various RSM's) further increase his stats obviously.
 
Here is what is said in our Discussion Rules page:

"The possibility for Madara Uchiha and the rest of the Naruto franchise characters to move at light speed has already been discussed and debunked repeatedly. Currently, any repetition of said discussion is highly annoying, and bar presence of a new canon movie, not subject to discussion."

"Please do not use Naruto databook descriptions or statements from the manga about the Juubi, or othervise, to attempt to upgrade the verse. These sources are typically not consistent and/or hyperbole and thus their contents are questionable at best."
 
Well to stay on topic, I still believe its just a case of Momoshiki being typically weak against Taijutsu which could explain why Base Naruto can keep up with him. It's not that Momo is weaker or Base Naruto is stronger its just a weakness against physical hand-to-hand combat. After all, Momoshiki relys heavily on absorbing and releasing Ninjutsu back at someone even stronger than the original user and thus has never been really required to use hand to hand combat or develop it. Of course he should have at least basic taijutsu but saying he has Taijutsu on like Rock Lee and up levels doesnt sound to accruate for a character who's more hax anyway.

Otherwise, should we downgrade, lets say, Tyranitar who is weak against the same kind of combat fighting moves due to being a dark type?
 
Yet the databook is written by the author and I know there where some errors it was continuity errors at best. While you question the light speed technique it ended up being just the smaller corners of the other jutsu boxes. But quite frankly I'm just pointing it out and no one debunked this as some just tried to undermine and ignore it at best
 
Yeah it's pretty much stated in our wiki that Momoshiki hates hard work and never bothers with it as he prefers to absorb techniques instead of his own personal strenght. While Momo does know basics of fighting it's just basics, it's a similar battle with Toneri. The dude lost because he never experienced a real battle and let Kinshiki do the grunt work.
 
Gemmysaur said:
Accepting the databook is accepting lightspeed Haku, lol.
Click to expand...
That's a misconception it was never found in the databook in Haku's ice mirror, it was the asuumption of the anime or some dude on a forum for that matter.
 
@TenshinG We have talked about this several times earlier, even though the staff members knowledgeable about Naruto are mostly missing at the moment. You are breaking our rules by bringing it up again. I would appreciate if you immediately and permanently drop the subject.
 
TenshinG said:
That's a misconception it was never found in the databook in Haku's ice mirror, it was the asuumption of the anime or some dude on a forum for that matter.
Click to expand...
Really? Huh. You learn stuff everyday.
 
Look Antvasima, I don't care. I'm not here to make changes, or asking for this to be put on Naruto's wall. I'm just pointing out something that's been stated in the source material written by the author, and it ultimately it doesn't harm anyone given that it's not going to be put out there anyway. I mostly noted it as just an example as too discuss Momoshiki's power
 
Well, the discussions about this happened long ago, so I do not remember them well, but as far as I am aware, a FTL Naruto would severely contradict all of his calculated speed feats.

Regardless, breaking our rules and ignoring admin warnings leads to long bans, especially for single-issue new members, who have not contributed anything of value to the wiki.
 
I doens't really, given naruto was in Six Paths Sage Mode, his highest form in order achieve that feat. But it's best that you refresh your memory man.

Sure, warning noted
 
Um, no. Sasuke is comparable to Madara and Naruto in speed bar none. Madara is even impressed by Sasuke's speed:

ESbUktj
Sasuke is fast enough to keep pace with Naruto and Madara in all areas of Speed. NAruto Reacted to Sasuke because, Sasuke's isn't fast enough to escape Naruto's perception. Duh...
 
@BarryAllen2.0 Preferably stop quoting each other. It unnecessarily spams the page. Use the "@" sign instead.
 
Let's leave it at that. Next chapter may or may not show momo's arguably best feat in the speed/reaction department, which was swatting away sasuke when he used ameno to get behind momo.

Edit: I didn't see your post, my bad.
 
So, since i think nothing won't change for now. Should this thread be locked or be left opened, in case something happens next chapter? I'm still sticking to my guns though.
 
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