Moar Pennywise stuff

[PaChi2]

While reading IT I keep finding random stuff that is not in his profile:

(As before, I cant bring the quote, sorry)

1) After coming into contact with a rosebush? (Is this the term for the plant that grows roses?) while pursuing Eddie, the plant rots/dies/something. Its unlikely to be an illusion since Pennywise's illusions are meant to scare their prey, and this happened while he was running to catch Eddie (Eddie would be more focused on the near decomposed body that was running after him than on some random dead plants). Later on Bill and Richie confirmed this.

2) Addition to his Inmersion thingy, Pennywise appears at least twice inside old photographs, the second time being able to drag Bill inside.

3) Dream manipulation. Already accepted but not in his profile.

Thoughts?

Note: I will use this thread to list more stuff I keep finding in the novel.

 

[PaChi2]

4) Acid manipulation in some of his transformations. Most Notably, a werewolf.

 

[PaChi2]

5) I'd like to add to his weaknesses: tends to give off a rotten odor even during illusions, making it easy for others to be aware of his presence, although this is likely meant to scare people.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask the members listed in The Dark Tower page to comment here if you wish.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Do you not know what a Rosebush is?

 

[PaChi2]

English is not my first language and I didnt remember the word. Sorry.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

You're doing Gan's work, PaChi. Keep it up.

Maybe this whole "raising awareness of Pennywise" thing wasn't such a bad idea after all...

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like King has accepted this then, and the suggestions also do not seem controversial, so you can probably add them.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I do accept them, for the record. Because I can actually go back and find all of the quotes PaChi is referring to in this post as of right now.

I would wait to edit the page until everything is compiled, though. Saves a lot of trouble to just do it all as one edit.

 

[PaChi2]

You're doing Gan's work, PaChi. Keep it up.

Maybe this whole "raising awareness of Pennywise" thing wasn't such a bad idea after all...

Do you agree with the stuff I listed?

Also, maybe we can change his rating to "Varies with transformations, up to High 7-A, possibly higher" since some of the forms are below 9-B: Georgie, other kids,...

I was planning on reading IT since I own the book, I like Stephen King's novels.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I do agree with what's listed. (Ninja'd) I'm not all the way sure about that last part, though.

One of the very consistent things about Pennywise is that even its most "human" forms are capable of growing ugly teeth and biting people's limbs off if it wants. We see that as early as the relative beginning of the book, in several instances where the clown form just bites through people. The clown (which should logically just be a human clown) also does things like splintering a guy's ribs just by hugging him too hard.

I don't recall it ever actually attacking anyone when taking the form of Georgie, but it would seem odd that becoming a human child would be so much different from becoming a human adult, when the latter still leaves It capable of just physically mutilating people.

 

[PaChi2]

Oh, I was just under the impression that after growing teeth and stuff it wouldnt count as "Georgie" anymore.

What would you call the 1)? Rot manipulation?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Perhaps. But even without the teeth, there's still the fact that its other "normal human" forms can still break bones with absolute minimal effort, which would put them at 9-B anyway.

Seems like extremely minor Death Manipulation. The rosebush just sort of dies off without explanation, so that's the power it would come closest to.

 

[PaChi2]

Would it be okay to have a list of the forms Pennywise adopted in the novel?

In notable techniques or something.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Sure, that should be more than fine. Although it'd become a rather long list, by the time you get done with the novel.

 

[PaChi2]

6) I think that Morality Manipulation may be a case given that Derry is stated several times to have a higher disappearence rate that other cities, murders, etc. Even in years when Pennywise is seemingly asleep, meaning that he passively affected the city in some way.

This is also sustained by Mike's speech to the group in 1985.

 

[PaChi2]

7) Transmutation: Pennywise turned the appartment where Beverly used to live into basically Candyland. After the incident Bev still has chocolate on her, meaning it wasnt entirely an illusion. This is likely also the whole "turning Richie's tongue into pus".

8) Life manipulation: can create living organisms. Insects, birds, etc.

9) Size manipulation for obvious reasons.

10) Large Size: Type 0 as plastic statue.

 

[PaChi2]

Bump

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

All of these look perfectly reasonable to me as well.

People who leave the town also come to forget the things related to Pennywise that happen in it, so that's more evidence of some sort of passive effects on the town that It has. I have no idea how to translate most of that to a VS context, however.

 

[PaChi2]

Why did you spoil that part. I h8 you.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Oh.

Well I mean it's not a (very) major spoiler so...Cut me some slack?

 

[PaChi2]

Lol

11) Memory Manipulation. Apparently the profile is missing it.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Honestly, It having memory manip is something that gets established really early on, as early as the case with Don Hagarty, Adrian Mellon, etc. where everyone just flatout forgets everything related to Pennywise's appearance during and after the trial.

I'll find the quote I have of that in a moment.

 

[PaChi2]

I honestly thought the profile already had Memory manip.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I did too until I actually looked and just...didn't see it anywhere. Maybe it was just assumed to be a subpower of mind manip or something. The profile's Powers & Abilities section is really dated.

This is the bit regarding the people forgetting about the murder Penny caused, despite there having been multiple witnesses and accounts of it beforehand:

John Webber Garton was convicted of first-degree manslaughter and sentenced to ten to twenty years in Thomaston State Prison. Steven Bishoff Dubay was convicted of first-degree manslaughter and sentenced to fifteen years in Shawshank State Prison. Christopher Philip Unwin was tried separately as a juvenile and convicted of second-degree manslaughter. He was sentenced to six months at the South Windham Boys' Training Facility, sentence suspended. At the time of this writing, all three sentences are under appeal; Garton and Dubay may be seen on any given day girl-watching or playing Penny Pitch in Bassey Park, not far from where Mellon's torn body was found floating against one of the pilings of the Main Street Bridge. Don Hagarty and Chris Unwin have left town. At the major trial—that of Garton and Dubay—no one mentioned a clown.
	~ IT, Chapter 2​

The book alludes to this being a recurring thing even earlier, during Chapter 1:

Now, though, the river was receding, and when the new Bangor Hydro dam went in upstream, the river would cease to be a threat. Or so said Zack Denbrough, who worked for Bangor Hydroelectric. As for the rest—well, future floods could take care of themselves. The thing was to get through this one, to get the power back on, and then to forget it. In Derry such forgetting of tragedy and disaster was almost an art, as Bill Denbrough would come to discover in the course of time.
	~ IT, Chapter 1​

 

[PaChi2]

The first quote isnt proof.

The detective (?) and the other guy had an arguement as to why they shouldnt mention the clown during the trial. And it specifically mentioned the two guys who hadnt seen the clown. Dubay and Garton hadnt seen Pennywise, so mentioning the existence of the clown during the incident would give their lawyers an excuse to set them free.

The second one... I could bring the quotes of the old people of Derry not forgetting the tragedies, speaking of cycles and stuff. They really didnt forget about the black spot, the murders... I think it is in Mike Hanlon's first interlude.

I think it is only a figure of speech, when it says "forgetting" it means more like "stop talking about it".

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Those are fair points, I suppose. I assumed they were related to later memory-related things that happen in the book, but looking at it that way, it's possible they're just circumstantial.

It is nice that you're reading through the novel and making note of all of this. It's a huge book even compared to most of what King puts out, and minor details slip through the cracks whenever I stop revisiting/rereading it for longer than a month or two (which I have as of right now, due to being busy with other things), so having someone else who's keeping track of things is really helpful.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Oh, also. Forms like the plastic Paul Bunyan statue you mentioned should have Inorganic Physiology for relatively obvious reasons. Its "must abide by the laws of the shape it inhabits" stipulation (which gets mentioned far later in the book, but that's not really much of a spoiler on its own) means the form isn't just aesthetic; It's actually turning itself plastic.

This clearly only counts when taking those types of forms, but still.

 

[PaChi2]

Cool.

12) Inorganic Physiology in some transformations. Paul Bunyan, as you mentioned.

13) Flight in some transformations. I.e: big bird that attacked Mike. Though he probably can grow wings no problem.

14) Self-sustenance: Type 1.

15) Sound manipulation: can change his voice to match other people's.

16) Stamina edit: Very high (his rampages last a couple of years until he has to sleep), can be reduced or stopped if his true form is somehow damaged.

 

[PaChi2]

"It's a huge book even compared to most of what King puts out"

Oooh boy, this is so true.

Edit: The profile will look very different once these revisions are done. Not necessarily more haxed or anything, but definitely more complete.

For his avatar form I could argue in stamina:

Very high (his rampages last a couple of years until he has to sleep), can be reduced or stopped if his true form is somehow damaged.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I used to have a hard copy of it when I was a teenager. It looked like something I could use to dent a car.

The copy I had (which almost certainly isn't the most recent print) had over a thousand pages. It's almost as big as the Bible.

 

[PaChi2]

I edited my previous comment with a suggestion for the stamina part.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

That suggestion definitely seems reasonable to me. Within the context of the book, It never rests during its rampages, not unless it's driven into hibernation early.

And yes, I'd say the profile will look much better and more rounded-out once this is implemented. And that will make me happy.

 

[PaChi2]

17) Physics manipulation: can make stuff float.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Stated many times. Is consistent. Can agree.

 

[PaChi2]

Question: do we assume that every time Pennywise didnt have a shadow, it was an illusion?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I don't know 100%, but it's possible? Stephen King has always been weird about keeping certain things like that surrounded in mystery, or just not elaborating on them because it doesn't suit the narrative to do so...

 

[PaChi2]

I mean, in one of the interludes a guy tells Mike that he saw Pennywise shooting some thieves, then other guys saw the clown too (in other locations). And one of them realized that Pennywise didnt have a shadow and the clown was floating near a window.

And the first time Ben saw him Pennywise didnt have a shadow, either.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

It may be a thing. I mean it is flat out established that its illusions do in-fact have real-world effects on whatever they interact with (like the when Beverly's father walks into the blood-filled bathroom and gets blood on his hands that he apparently can't see), so even in an instance where Pennywise kills someone, if its shadow is missing, that could be a sign that it's an illusion of It rather than the being itself.

The possibility is real. It certainly wouldn't be the first easter egg King has thrown into his books like that.

 

[PaChi2]

I love Pennywise's super dark humor.