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MLP Possible Upgrades - 2

What do you mean?

I offered a suggestion higher in the comments that instead of using the energy needed to sustain the storm, we use the energy needed to move the mass of said storm as Rarity was visibly moving it in a tornado like affect from 2:19 to 2:21 in the song. Assuming the clouds continued over the horizon, nets us a speed of 800 m/s (horizon is usually 2.4 km away). And that times Darkanine's mass times .5 gets us 945.587380497 Megatons.
 
We cannot perform any upgrades without evaluated and accepted calculation blogs.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
That's very high. May i ask what tier that gets ? I am assuming tier 7-6
Click to expand...
High 7-A. But I don't know the radius, which is why I used the horizon. I'll find something, and make an alternate calc soon though.

On second thought maybe not. Dark's calc has a radius of 72 km, the clouds going at that speed give us nearly 1000x my previous results.
 
I think that we should stick to informing Darkanine about the accepted changes, asking Azathoth to comment about the suggested 4-B upgrades, and avoid any other discussion whatsoever, so we can finally close this.
 
Okay. You can remind Darkanine and Azathoth to check this thread,
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. You can remind Darkanine and Azathoth to check this thread,
Click to expand...
I'd like to make a preemptive strike on Azathoth's argument from the last time this was brought up: Namely how the Dazzling's were starved for 1000 years in a world without magic.

This is completely irrelevant, and it doesn't mean anything. How does them being weaker at first have any relevance? What matters is they corrupted and absorbed the same magic from the EoH. Why would the EoH be affected by a lack of magic when their power explicitly comes from the friendship between the girls and not the actual Elements themselves according to WoG? Something that was show once in both movies?

The Dazzlings were already a a threat to The Pillars to the point where they needed to be banished. And that was after absorbing the negativity of a random town. Here they absorb the energy of a few hundred students, plus energy from the corrupted Elements. I seriously doubt that the Negative Emotions of a Town >> Negative Emotions from the EoH themselves.

Not to mention my previous arguments in this very thread. Needless to say, it is ludicrous to assume that the Elements of Harmony are 1.3200087e+31x weaker in The Human World (yes I actually did a calc on it) based on vague statement.
 
Let me put it like this: Dazzlings > EoH > Demon Sunset. Sunset had all the powers of the Element of magic. Why would the crown be less powerful in the human world?

What could possibly lower the crown's power? The fact that it was in a world without magic? How does that make sense? It already has magic, so why would going to a world without magic weaken the innate magic already there? Does the world's magicless properties somehow drain the crown's magic? That's called speculation. No worse, that's straight up baseless assumption.

Does a car lose gas just because it is inside a place without any gas? NO! The gas has to be used!
 
Well, Azathoth generally has very good judgement regarding these issues, and we are not performing any upgrades without his approval.

Have you politely asked him to reply here?
 
Antvasima said:
Have you politely asked him to reply here?
Click to expand...
I know I contacted Darkanine about missing upgrades. But as for Azathoth, I'm fairly certain 2ndES said he would contact him.
 
It is best if you politely remind both of them.
 
I'll give my thoughts on 4-B EQG villains.

No. The same thing I've said in the past, and I'll explain why, again.

  • "Not to mention my previous arguments in this very thread. Needless to say, it is ludicrous to assume that the Elements of Harmony are 1.3200087e+31x weaker in The Human World (yes I actually did a calc on it) based on vague statement."
This is a non-argument. You are not actually proving the human world EoH are 4-B. You're just saying "they shouldn't be weaker than the Equestrian ones" based on nothing, especially since these Elements are from a world with exponentially less magic.

  • "What could possibly lower the crown's power? The fact that it was in a world without magic? How does that make sense? It already has magic, so why would going to a world without magic weaken the innate magic already there? Does the world's magicless properties somehow drain the crown's magic? That's called speculation. No worse, that's straight up baseless assumption."
4-B Element of Magic on its own is also entirely baseless. The whole point of the Elements of Harmony is that their power comes from being together. If you're getting this from scaling to Alicorn Twilight, even 4-B Alicorn Twilight is, at this point, pretty shaky. Much of it comes from saying she "should" be comparable to the other Alicorns, without much of anything to back that up, and scaling to Starswirl's power from a book that as of now may or may not be canon. Even in said book, he's not exactly portrayed at that level.

This is on top of the fact that, as of recent events, Twilight herself has admitted her magic isn't comparable to Celestia, Luna, and Cadance's, while also being threatened by far lesser beings.

  • "The Dazzlings were already a a threat to The Pillars to the point where they needed to be banished."
Dazzlings that have been starving for more than a thousand years and can't even fully transform into their true forms =/= Dazzlings in their prime.

  • "And that was after absorbing the negativity of a random town."
First, town in a world filled with magic =/= school in a world with barely any magic. Second, you are assuming they literally only ever drained a single town, when they were supposed to have been a threat to Equestria, as a whole.

  • "Why would the EoH be affected by a lack of magic when their power explicitly comes from the friendship between the girls and not the actual Elements themselves according to WoG? Something that was show once in both movies?"
You are even giving a reason as to why the two sets of Elements aren't the same thing in your argument to try and prove that they are.


Demon Sunset should scale to being unquantifiably above her pony self. That's it. Anything more delves into extreme speculation with very little to back it up, and the MLP ratings as they are now are already often based on heavy speculation.
 
I agree with Azathoth, and would appreciate if everybody involved drop this subject and focus on performing the accepted changes, so we can finally close this discussion.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I'll give my thoughts on 4-B EQG villains.
Click to expand...
1. And why bother assuming otherwise? There is absolutely nothing suggesting they're weaker. Ok how is a world without magic even relevant?

2. Aside from the fact that the other Elements are useless without the crown? But that being said: Sunset believed the crown would give her the power to take over Equestria. Can it be argued that Sunset was just being arrogant? No actually, as Twilight fully agreed with her. Twilight considered Sunset with the crown to be such a big threat, that she was willing to allow the portal to be destroyed, just to spare Equestria from her. Why bother making such a big sacrifice to protect her world from Sunset, if she could be stopped by a reasonably strong pony? It completely spits in the face of the plot!

3. Irrelevant point. Their state of being has no affect on how powerful they can be. Their power grows based on how much negative energy they get, and how strong it is. Them starving is not relevant to their power, specifically, how much they can gain. Especially not when they've been absorbing a buffet of negative energy from a full school, multiple times in the movie, before moving on the the bearers of Harmony themselves.

3.1. Ok I'll give it to you that we only saw one town, and it could be higher....but the Dazzling's were likely at full power in the movie. They had manifested all of the same abilities as they did against the Pillars, and managed to get their true forms. They at the very least could be comparable based on that. Bear in mind I'm using "likely",and "could" to imply possibility, not absolutes.

4. You're not answering my question: Why would a lack of magic affect the Elements? Um no, that statement was in reference to the Elements of Harmony in general. Though that being said, I might need to dig around for that quote.
 
This is one of the most inefficient discussions that I have ever witnessed in this wiki. We are probably never going to get anything done whatsoever if you continue like this.
 
Antvasima said:
This is one of the most inefficient discussions that I have ever witnessed in this wiki. We are probably never going to get anything done whatsoever if you continue like this.
Click to expand...
This is something that needs discussion in regards to MLP. We can't just drop an important discussion just because it is time consuming. Things would never get done otherwise. At the very least I want to cover all possible bases on the subject before shrugging my shoulders and moving on.

Besides, Dark has already been informed, he should be performing the changes soon.
 
Darkanine has most likely thrown up his hands in the air at this point due to all of the thread derailments.

The suggestion has been rejected, and Azathoth does not have the time to reply much.

Let's focus on applying the parts that have been accepted instead. I am getting extremely tired of having to constantly deal with this.
 
I am a bit unsure what to do about the 4-B EQG MLP thing. I feel we should at least give @Light a chance to fully expound upon this, if Azathoth is willing. This way Light will have no reason to bring it up again as every possible countermeasure has been debunked / accepted.
 
Azathoth most likely does not have the time, and we have already been talking for a month, without much happening, so I am getting very tired of this enormous inefficiency.

My apologies, but the staff does not have limitless time and energy to indulge you forever. We can talk for a while, help to reach solutions to be applied, and then close the threads. That is it.
 
Antvasima said:
Azathoth most likely does not have the time, and we have already been talking for a month, without much happening, so I am getting very tired of this enormous inefficiency.

My apologies, but the staff does not have limitless time and energy to indulge you forever. We can talk for a while, help to reach solutions to be applied, and then close the threads. That is it.
Click to expand...
Ok. Now you're exaggerating. I have literally started the discussion on this specific topic a few days ago at most. The reason no one got anything done with the upgrades is because no one was willing to do them. And this was after I compiled everything needed to be done on this very thread, into a short reasonable list, and after people sent the list to people who could perform the changes. And yet no one made them.

^I'm only arguing off topic now because there are like 2 things that need to be added. And both would be easy to perform.
 
The previous thread started February 1, and we have consistently got sidetracked since then.
 
Anyway, I suppose that you can message Darkanine again.
 
  • "And why bother assuming otherwise? There is absolutely nothing suggesting they're weaker. Ok how is a world without magic even relevant?"
Because, as has been repeatedly stated, it's not the same thing. We're not going to randomly assume the human world's EoH are equal to Equestria's EoH without any evidence. That's never been how this has worked.

  • "Aside from the fact that the other Elements are useless without the crown?"
They're also useless without Laughter, or Honesty, or Kindness. That doesn't make them 4-B, individually. That's kind of the entire point.

  • "But that being said: Sunset believed the crown would give her the power to take over Equestria."
I am in no way willing to scale something to 4-B based on that, especially without context. Multiple entities or forces within the show have shown to be a serious threat to Equestria and its rulers without being 4-B.

  • "It completely spits in the face of the plot!"
Remember when random changelings captured Celestia and Luna? Or when they were overpowered by vines that, despite growing extremely fast, weren't magically resistant or anything? MLP, like many series, will often have significantly lesser things be presented as a threat for the sake of the plot, not in spite of it.

  • "Irrelevant point. Their state of being has no affect on how powerful they can be."
Except it entirely does. Human Twilight isn't Tier 7 despite being the same Twilight from Equestria.

  • "Them starving is not relevant to their power, specifically, how much they can gain. Especially not when they've been absorbing a buffet of negative energy from a full school, multiple times in the movie, before moving on the the bearers of Harmony themselves."
Human level Dazzlings absorbing conflict in the human world =/= 4-B. Especially not when the Dazzlings may not have been 4-B at their best, anyway.

  • "but the Dazzling's were likely at full power in the movie."
Yes but why? We need good reason to believe that. We can't just assume they were.

  • "Why would a lack of magic affect the Elements?"
Because it's not the same Elements? The only exception here is magic.

  • "Um no, that statement was in reference to the Elements of Harmony in general."
Except said statement is a lie, as we now know the origin of the Elements, which is 100% magical in nature and not even fully related to the Mane 6.
 
Thank you Azathoth. Perhaps we can finally focus on getting things done now?
 
Of course. Threads that should only last for more than a month would be Battle threads, and wiki management threads, I don't recall revision threads lasting this long. We should winter wrap things up. For good.
 
Yes, please summarise the accepted changes again, inform Darkanine, wait for him to apply them, and then we permanently close this discussion. Simple.
 
Okay. Thank you for the help.
 
There's a mistake on Twilight's page on her last key, the tier says high 7-C but her AP says City level

There's also mistakes on Sunset's page, her tier says she has 3 6-C keys but her AP says she's Large town level. Also shouldn't she be upgraded to 7-B
 
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