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Mistborn CRT

Yawgmoth123

Yawgmoth123

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Remove Hemalurgic Construct Control from Breeze's profile - Breeze

Soothers and Rioters of Breeze's era are unable to control Hemalurgic constructs. According to The Hero of Ages chapter 3, multiple emotional Allomancers of his era must simultaneuosly Push or Pull on Hemalurgic constructs.

Drawing on the Mists key - Add Regeneration, feats of pewter-strength, stamina feat, Hypersonic+ or higher speed - Vin Venture
  • At the end of Chapter 72, the Mists healed Vin's body from otherwise fatal injuries received from Ruin's Steel Inquisitors. She healed from an axe wound to the back that made her unable to walk/crawl, a pierced and bleeding throat, both of her legs and arms being shattered, and all of her fingers being broken. It made the pain disappear "in a flash," and immediately allowed her to catch Marsh's arm and throw him away.
  • Ruin's Inquisitors - who have the ability to tap Feruchemical steel, and in some cases can burn both pewter and duralumin - are stunned by her speed, and they don't look quick to Mist Vin.
  • Slapped an Inquisitor aside, killed an Inquisitor and threw him backwards with one punch.
  • Cut off one's arm and decapitated him, in a motion that left the others stunned by its speed.
  • She casually overpowers the Pushes and Pulls of Inquisitors, and casually rips out the eye-spikes of one tapping Feruchemical pewter.
  • Has the stamina to kill thirteen Inquisitors without fatigue or injuries
  • Going by feats and the sheer amount of Investiture in Mist-burning, Mist Vin is demonstrably superior to Marsh, Feruchemists i.e. Sazed, and even lerasium Mistborn. The only person in the Final Empire she's comparable to is the Lord Ruler. It's safe to say that Mist Vin's regenerative abilities, speed, stamina and physical strength are comparable, if not superior, to the Lord Ruler's Allomancy and Compounding.

Remove "likely" from Soul Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Text Manipulation, and "all the powers of a Mistborn" - Sazed
  • Sazed has both Ruin and Preservation, and the magic system knowledge that comes from them. These powers are guaranteed to be in his repertoire. Even Preservation's weakest form could enflame the emotions of Elend and Sazed. Ascended Rashek could sense all the active Feruchemy of his time.
  • HoA Chapter 70's epigraph seems to imply that Ruin (and Preservation by proxy) have the ability to use telepathy on the people of Scadrial, without achieving certain conditions. Insanity, Hemalurgic spikes, or the Mists only seem to amplify the telepathy's potency.
  • Chapter 82's epigraph indicates that Preservation could influence people's thoughts when he feeds them the Mists. He got Vin to stop wearing her Hemalurgic earring, before Kelsier came into her life.
"The point, however, is that people with unstable personalities were more susceptible to Ruin's influence, even if they didn't have a spike in them. That, indeed, is likely how Zane got his spike."
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Add Power Bestowal to Vin, Sazed, and TLR’s divine mode profiles

I think TLR’s divine mode key should be in a separate section like Vin and Sazed.
 
Rez said:
Oh well i guess i spoiled it for you. It happens in mistborn secret history. It's pretty much the era 1 trilogy but from kelseir's point of view after his initial death at the end of first book.
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I deserved the spoiler lmao. That’s what I get for posting without finishing the series. Honestly though, that spoiler makes me excited for Secret History.
 
I think for the Harmony key, instead of "all previous abilities" it could say "can manipulate all previous abilities."

As in, he could manipulate a person's strength, weight, speed or senses. He could manipulate memories, enhance/dampen a person's mental speed, make a person more or less tired, or influence body temperature.

As a Shard, a lot of Feruchemical powers wouldn't apply to Sazed's body directly.
 
I think that this seems fine to add.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. That seems to make sense then.
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I think Sazed's powers should include whatever Elantrians or Stormlight characters have shown, upscaled to his caliber. They all essentially share the same source that fuels their powers, with Elantrians being fueled by a fuel source that's in an incorrect Realm.
 
Yawgmoth123 said:
I think Sazed's powers should include whatever Elantrians or Stormlight characters have shown, upscaled to his caliber. They all essentially share the same source that fuels their powers, with Elantrians being fueled by a fuel source that's in an incorrect Realm.
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No shards' powers and abilities related to a specific magic system should not scale to each other. Magic system (majority, not all of them though) in cosmere are indeed empowered by shards. They are created when a shard invests in a planet. Unless some new info comes out a shard should only have their planet's specific magic system. Every shard should receive basic abilities such precog, anything that's not fundamentally tied to a planets' magic system and anything related to their existence though.
 
Andytrenom said:
Seems fine, though I would recommend calling some experts on mistborn
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Can you tag the cosmere supporters
Here are the names from wiki
Dargoo Faust
Wokistan
ApiesDeathbyLazors
PapiSavitar5025
Zaratthustra
Zoey of Scadrial
AGENTFURIOUS
Antvasima
The Legendary Vin
 
Rez said:
No shards' powers and abilities related to a specific magic system should not scale to each other. Magic system (majority, not all of them though) in cosmere are indeed empowered by shards. They are created when a shard invests in a planet. Unless some new info comes out a shard should only have their planet's specific magic system. Every shard should receive basic abilities such precog, anything that's not fundamentally tied to a planets' magic system and anything related to their existence though.
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Agree with this. Shards shouldn’t get access to others Shards power systems. Side note, I really need to add myself as a supporter.
 
Rez said:
No shards' powers and abilities related to a specific magic system should not scale to each other. Magic system (majority, not all of them though) in cosmere are indeed empowered by shards. They are created when a shard invests in a planet. Unless some new info comes out a shard should only have their planet's specific magic system. Every shard should receive basic abilities such precog, anything that's not fundamentally tied to a planets' magic system and anything related to their existence though.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood what I meant. Either that, or ignoring statements by Sanderson. I meant that Shards can use all the powers and abilities that most magic systems have shown, but upscaled to the caliber of the Shards. So no, many powers are definitely not limited to specific Shards. Disclaimer: I’ve read the MB trilogy, Elantris, Emperor’s Soul, and early into The Alloy of Law.

For example, Preservation does not need to swallow metals to use his powers. However, he can move Scadrial throughout space, which is like Steelpushing and Ironpulling on a planetary scale. He can also flatten and create mountains. Hell, he creates metals, planets, and humans that contain trace elements. The same applies to Ruin. We know Autonomy can move stars to create a binary system. Preservation in his weakest form was enflaming the emotions of Elend and Sazed, while Ruin at a fraction of his full power was manipulating the emotions of Vin and his servants. Preservation and Ruin (or at least Ruin at full power) can see the future, upscaled from electrum and atium. And the past upscaled from gold. Duralumin’s deal is enhancing Allomancy in one burst, whereas Preservation’s shtick is fueling and enhancing Allomancy. We know that Ruin can fuel Allomancy when it’s granted through a spike. Shards like Ruin and Preservation exist in a natural state of timelessness, and that’s without manipulating time.

Raoden and the other Elantrians can do feats like create fire and heatless light, teleport long distances, cast illusions, create explosive blasts, create forcefields, create a circle of magnified vision, transmute material into food, heal other people, levitate objects, and heal themselves. According to a more recent WoB, an Elantrian could be decapitated then heal by regenerating a new head. They’re akin to gold Compounders, despite not using the same methods of accessing Investiture, coming from the same planet, or drawing Investiture from the same Realm. Same with creating magnified view, which sounds a bit like the senses of Feruchemical tin. None of this matters to Shards when they can create volcanoes, or planets and their cores. Their power makes the Sun seem insignificant - a statement made before Sazed drew in Ruin and Preservation.

Dakhor monks are extremely durable, possess superhuman speed and strength, and can teleport under the right conditions. The strongest monk Dilaf is resistant to attacks from Elantrians, can negate Aons (Aon Shao from a distance, Aon Edo via physical contact with the forcefield), and had his appearance and aging process altered. So they share powers with Pewterarms, pewter Feruchemy, Aon Tia, atium Feruchemy, and Allomantic chromium.

There are 500-600 Elantrians, all created and constantly fueled by the Dor, if not Devotion. Dakhor is a big unknown, but we know it draws power from the Dor, if not Dominion. The Dor is merely the “corpse” of Devotion and Dominion, stuffed into the Cognitive Realm where they don’t belong. According to a WoB, AonDor can replicate almost any effect in the Cosmere with the right program and injection of Investiture - the right Aon modifiers and equations. AonDor is far less versatile and Investiture-dense than what Shards do.

On the topic of creating Elantrians, Ruin and Preservation can do similar things. A tiny piece of Preservation transformed Rashek into a stronger class of Mistborn than Elend, and turned Feruchemists into powerless and mindless mistwraiths. Preservation makes people Allomancers through the Mists and lerasium. Ruin grants sentience to mistwraiths and turns them to kandra, and transforms humans into koloss and Steel Inquisitors.

Forgery changes the past of objects and living beings, but there are inter-system applications that are being ignored. Resealing heals the physical damage to Ashravan’s crossbow wound to the head. Remembering changes the appearance of objects. Soulforging produces surprising creations like Shai and Ashravan’s Essence Marks. And it doesn’t end there. Forgers can turn people into Elantrians or Allomancers, and change the properties and metal of Hemalurgic spikes.

The methods used by magic systems differ from each other, but in various cases they have shared the same powers. So if it applies to mortals, it applies to Shards. They have the Investiture, Realm makeup, and knowledge (both scientific and magical) required to do so.
 
Shards should not automatically get the abilities exhibited by other magic systems in the Cosmere.

It would be far more accurate to just list the abilities they've been shown to exhibit, plus the common abilities shared by all Shards.
 
For the people saying Shards shouldn't get abilities exhibited by other magic systems, it looks like Stormlight debunks that claim. I haven't read Stormlight yet, so please tag SA spoilers in this thread. Getting this info from the Wiki:

According to Coppermind, the Fused, who are bound to Odium, use Odium's Investiture to heal themselves and fuel their use of Surges. This is despite the fact that Odium is not the god of Surgebinding nor Invested into Roshar. Honor and Cultivation are the gods of Surgebinding, and are the ones Invested into Roshar. Furthermore, Odium has his own spren.
 
@Yawgmoth123 The surges are more like fundamental forces of the Cosmere. It's implied that humans could manipulate surges even before Honor granted the Honorblades to the Heralds and before the Knights Radiants started bonding with Spren.

So I wouldn't say that Honor and Cultivation are Gods of Surgebinding exactly; more like they're the Gods responsible for the Nahel Bond which is what Radiants use to gain access to surgebinding.

And Odium provides the surges to his Fused not through the Nahel bond.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Yawgmoth123 The surges are more like fundamental forces of the Cosmere. It's implied that humans could manipulate surges even before Honor granted the Honorblades to the Heralds and before the Knights Radiants started bonding with Spren.

So I wouldn't say that Honor and Cultivation are Gods of Surgebinding exactly; more like they're the Gods responsible for the Nahel Bond which is what Radiants use to gain access to surgebinding.

And Odium provides the surges to his Fused not through the Nahel bond.
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Sorry if this is going into theorycrafting, but this sounds like it's supporting my point. Sazed's epigraphs in HoA already establishes that Investiture is a fundamental force of the universe that can't be destroyed, with the Shards being composed of and manipulating that force. And we know that Shards possess magical and scientific knowledge that is not accessible by any mortal. Rashek could create microbes and add pigments to plants via a tiny piece of Preservation. All AonDor is is using Investiture and one's knowledge to create many effects, through a process that Shards don't need to experience. Same with Forgery. Similar concept with Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy.
 
It's agreeing with your point but in a limited sense. I do think Shards should get some shared abilities, but not literally everything capable of doing through Investiture.
 
Damage3245 said:
It's agreeing with your point but in a limited sense. I do think Shards should get some shared abilities, but not literally everything capable of doing through Investiture.
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I don't see it considering how Investiture and upscaling works. But I understand your stance.
 
Do we agree that the individual Shards should automatically get all abilities exhibited by any individual magic systems they fuel? Preservation should get the powers of Allomancy and Feruchemy, Ruin should get the powers of Hemalurgy and Feruchemy, and Harmony should get the powers of all the Metallic Arts. Devotion and Dominion get any systems fueled by the Dor, such as Elantrians and the ability to create them. Odium gets the powers of Surgebinding, and so do Honor and Cultivation.
 
Yawgmoth123 said:
Do we agree that the individual Shards should automatically get all abilities exhibited by any individual magic systems they fuel? Preservation should get the powers of Allomancy and Feruchemy, Ruin should get the powers of Hemalurgy and Feruchemy, and Harmony should get the powers of all the Metallic Arts. Devotion and Dominion get any systems fueled by the Dor, such as Elantrians and the ability to create them. Odium gets the powers of Surgebinding, and so do Honor and Cultivation.
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Yeah I can agree with that.
 
Yawgmoth123 said:
Do we agree that the individual Shards should automatically get all abilities exhibited by any individual magic systems they fuel? Preservation should get the powers of Allomancy and Feruchemy, Ruin should get the powers of Hemalurgy and Feruchemy, and Harmony should get the powers of all the Metallic Arts. Devotion and Dominion get any systems fueled by the Dor, such as Elantrians and the ability to create them. Odium gets the powers of Surgebinding, and so do Honor and Cultivation.
Click to expand...
Since the Dor magic systems are the product of Devotion and Dominion being melded together, I don't think we should assign the abilities specifically to Devotion and Dominion each. (I very much doubt we have enough info on them to justify profiles anyway)
 
Damage3245 said:
Since the Dor magic systems are the product of Devotion and Dominion being melded together, I don't think we should assign the abilities specifically to Devotion and Dominion each. (I very much doubt we have enough info on them to justify profiles anyway)
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I agree that we don't have enough info for profiles on them. However, I think we could assign the Dor's abilities to them. The Dor is in the Cognitive Realm, where Shards shouldn't reside. That makes the Dor's powers less versatile and more complex to use than anything a living Shard (or a Splintered Shard in the Spiritual Realm) can do. We just agreed that Preservation and Ruin should get all the abilities exhibited by Feruchemy, a system fueled by both of them. I think the same logic should apply to Devotion and Dominion.
 
Rez said:
No shards' powers and abilities related to a specific magic system should not scale to each other. Magic system (majority, not all of them though) in cosmere are indeed empowered by shards. They are created when a shard invests in a planet. Unless some new info comes out a shard should only have their planet's specific magic system. Every shard should receive basic abilities such precog, anything that's not fundamentally tied to a planets' magic system and anything related to their existence though.
Click to expand...
This is how I have understood it as well.
Rez said:
Can you tag the cosmere supporters
Here are the names from wiki
Dargoo Faust
Wokistan
ApiesDeathbyLazors
PapiSavitar5025
Zaratthustra
Zoey of Scadrial
AGENTFURIOUS
Antvasima
The Legendary Vin
Click to expand...
@Dargoo_Faust @Wokistan @ApiesDeathbyLazors @PapiSavitar5025 @Zaratthustra @Zoey_of_Scadrial @AGENTFURIOUS @The_Legendary_Vin
 
Anyway, is somebody here willing and able to properly apply the changes that have been agreed about in this thread?
 
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